Weight loss in regulated cat

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Do you usually feed him ever 2 hours? Pre-shot should not be food influenced, correct, to make sure he is safe to give insulin. You don't change anything in his feeding schedule when doing the curve. Like I said, I have not heard of using multiple days for a curve, maybe one of the veteran members has heard of this, I'll try to tag them @Kris & Teasel @Tuxedo Mom @Bobbie And Bubba @Chris & China . I know it's hard to get the pre-tests when they are not in a good mood but you can't give in to that. The pre-tests are sooo important :bighug:
 
Yong said:
Do you usually feed him ever 2 hours? Pre-shot should not be food influenced, correct, to make sure he is safe to give insulin. You don't change anything in his feeding schedule when doing the curve. Like I said, I have not heard of using multiple days for a curve, maybe one of the veteran members has heard of this, I'll try to tag them @Kris & Teasel @Tuxedo Mom @Bobbie And Bubba @Chris & China . I know it's hard to get the pre-tests when they are not in a good mood but you can't give in to that. The pre-tests are sooo important :bighug:
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When I did curves, I made sure that one of the every 2 hour tests was right before his mid day meal. Then he had 2 hours with no food before the next test. I agree that this curve needs to be done on one day. Once you have a lot more data, scattering lots of tests at different times will work well. You're not there yet.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
When I did curves, I made sure that one of the every 2 hour tests was right before his mid day meal. Then he had 2 hours with no food before the next test. I agree that this curve needs to be done on one day. Once you have a lot more data, scattering lots of tests at different times will work well. You're not there yet.
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Thanks ! Appreciate the info. Ya I have only about 10 days of data. Hvnt done a full curve yet.
 
Yong said:
Do you usually feed him ever 2 hours? Pre-shot should not be food influenced, correct, to make sure he is safe to give insulin. You don't change anything in his feeding schedule when doing the curve. Like I said, I have not heard of using multiple days for a curve, maybe one of the veteran members has heard of this, I'll try to tag them @Kris & Teasel @Tuxedo Mom @Bobbie And Bubba @Chris & China . I know it's hard to get the pre-tests when they are not in a good mood but you can't give in to that. The pre-tests are sooo important :bighug:
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Yong said:
Do you usually feed him ever 2 hours? Pre-shot should not be food influenced, correct, to make sure he is safe to give insulin. You don't change anything in his feeding schedule when doing the curve. Like I said, I have not heard of using multiple days for a curve, maybe one of the veteran members has heard of this, I'll try to tag them @Kris & Teasel @Tuxedo Mom @Bobbie And Bubba @Chris & China . I know it's hard to get the pre-tests when they are not in a good mood but you can't give in to that. The pre-tests are sooo important :bighug:
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He'll ask for food around 2 - 21/2 hours. I just need to time it properly before I take the tests. I want him to eat too n not lose more weight.
 
Did d curve. Left one more, d pmps. Hmm it's all in red and fuschia except d amps which was yellow. Peak of vetsulin is at +6.
Looks like I Hv to increase d insulin? I gave him 2.6 according to Janet's sliding scale. Should be safe to go 2.8?
 
Are you feeding only pate foods? What Whiskas are you feeding? Could you for a week or two just do fancy feast classic and see if it effects those mid cycle numbers?
 
Waheeda said:
Did d curve. Left one more, d pmps. Hmm it's all in red and fuschia except d amps which was yellow. Peak of vetsulin is at +6.
Looks like I Hv to increase d insulin? I gave him 2.6 according to Janet's sliding scale. Should be safe to go 2.8?
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What's the preshot this morning?
 
JanetNJ said:
Are you feeding only pate foods? What Whiskas are you feeding? Could you for a week or two just do fancy feast classic and see if it effects those mid cycle numbers?
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Now he's only on burp and fancy feast. He will eat fancy feast for a few days and then he doesn't want it anymore so I have to give him burp. Today he was eating mostly burp.
 
It's strange that it goes up so much two hours after the shot..... That's why I was asking about the food. Hmmmmmm
 
JanetNJ said:
What country are you in? And to answer your questiono I would say it's safe to raise. I might even try 3 for a while and see what happens.
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I'm in Singapore. I'll try 2.8 tonite n take the +6 reading to see how low it goes. If it's still high, I'll do 3 tmr.
 
JanetNJ said:
It's strange that it goes up so much two hours after the shot..... That's why I was asking about the food. Hmmmmmm
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I'm also puzzled. Lately he has been mainly on burp. I guess he got bored of pate. He din wan wellness pate either. I posted the contents of burp in this thread and I thk Yong checked for me and she said the carb content is ok.
 
JanetNJ said:
It's strange that it goes up so much two hours after the shot..... That's why I was asking about the food. Hmmmmmm
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Can I ask u which of the young again dry food u giv ur cat? I just found a supplier here n am thinking of trying. They have a few types. Which is the one u feed?
 
Waheeda said:
Can I ask u which of the young again dry food u giv ur cat? I just found a supplier here n am thinking of trying. They have a few types. Which is the one u feed?
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I feed the regular young again zero, not the mature one only because I have two cats under the age of 2 here that can eat it. If it were just older cats eating it I might get the young again zero mature one.
 
Waheeda said:
I'm also puzzled. Lately he has been mainly on burp. I guess he got bored of pate. He din wan wellness pate either. I posted the contents of burp in this thread and I thk Yong checked for me and she said the carb content is ok.
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What is the carb count on the burp?
 
JanetNJ said:
Ah ok. I see they have some canned in jelly and some tins and pouches with gravy.

You could probably email the company directly and ask.
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I don't recall seeing any email address. I'll try to chge his food to friskies. As long as less than 10% carb shld b ok?
 
Waheeda said:
On d can it says moisture 84%, protein 12%, ash 2%, fat 1%, crude fiber 0.5%. No mention of carbs.
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Majority of food companies are not required to list carb content :mad:. I did calculate an estimated carb content range for her food, Janet :) 0 - 3.1% dry matter.
Nice job getting the curve done Waheeda :). Janet is our Vetuslin dosing expert :D, you are in good hands!
 
Yong said:
Majority of food companies are not required to list carb content :mad:. I did calculate an estimated carb content range for her food, Janet :) 0 - 3.1% dry matter.
Nice job getting the curve done Waheeda :). Janet is our Vetuslin dosing expert :D, you are in good hands!
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I'm so thankful I chanced upon this website n get to know u all. I really need all d encouragement, advice n help.
Jebat did put up a fight after some time but my sis helped so all went well. But it was so disappointing seeing the readings. And poor boy's legs r weaker today n he looks withdrawn.
 
When his BG numbers are better controlled the neuropathy can start to reverse. It still takes time :bighug:. Don't be discouraged but the first noticeable sign with Maury happened around starting month 4. Was a small sign but I noticed it :) He continues to make slight improvements. Quite a few use Zobaline (not Xobaline) to help boost the progress, not sure if you can get it in Singapore. Can you order things on Amazon?
 
Yong said:
When his BG numbers are better controlled the neuropathy can start to reverse. It still takes time :bighug:. Don't be discouraged but the first noticeable sign with Maury happened around starting month 4. Was a small sign but I noticed it :) He continues to make slight improvements. Quite a few use Zobaline (not Xobaline) to help boost the progress, not sure if you can get it in Singapore. Can you order things on Amazon?
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Hi Yong, I was given neuroforte by the vet which contains vit b12 cyanocobalamin. Similar to zobaline? I can order thgs from Amazon if d supplier ships to Singapore.
I increased dosage to 3 n it seems to b giving better result just now at +3. Hope to see a blue today.
 
Unfortunately, no they are not the same. Cyanocobalamin isn't as good for helping nerve damage as Methylcobalamin. Which is the type in Zobaline along with folic acid, which needed to help the Methyl B12 absorb properly. I mean the Cyanocobalamin won't hurt, so don't want you to worry about that;). Yes this 3.0U is looking nice! Numbers permitting, hold the dose for a bit :cat:. *paws crossed for blue*!
 
Yong said:
Unfortunately, no they are not the same. Cyanocobalamin isn't as good for helping nerve damage as Methylcobalamin. Which is the type in Zobaline along with folic acid, which needed to help the Methyl B12 absorb properly. I mean the Cyanocobalamin won't hurt, so don't want you to worry about that;). Yes this 3.0U is looking nice! Numbers permitting, hold the dose for a bit :cat:. *paws crossed for blue*!
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The cyanocobalamin is giving him mild diarrhoea. I'll Chk with other clinics if they carry zobaline. Thks for d info. Testing him soon at +6. Hope for a gd one.
 
H
JanetNJ said:
I offered you a sliding scale recommendation a few days ago. You should try it.

200-250 2.4
250-300 2.6
300-350 3
350-400 3.2
400+ 3.4

You wanna get those mid day numbers down to around 80-110.
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hi Janet,
What happened if d pre shot reading is below 200?
Well, it hasn't happened yet but just getting ready when it does. Yesterday he gave me a blue!
 
Waheeda said:
H

hi Janet,
What happened if d pre shot reading is below 200?
Well, it hasn't happened yet but just getting ready when it does. Yesterday he gave me a blue!
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Hooray for your first blue!

180-200 do 1.5
150-180 do 1

I'm cautious about you shooting lower than that for the time being until you get more data.
 
Get a few more days of data and as many mid cycle numbers as you can and then we will revisit the scale and adjust, because I do think you need to increase in those higher numbers.
 
JanetNJ said:
Hooray for your first blue!

180-200 do 1.5
150-180 do 1

I'm cautious about you shooting lower than that for the time being until you get more data.
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That's a bit of a jump for 200-250 as compared to 180-200. 2.4 vs 1.5.
I'm giving him 2.8 for 250-300. I'm happy if he can stay within yellow whole day. Blue is a bonus.
 
JanetNJ said:
Get a few more days of data and as many mid cycle numbers as you can and then we will revisit the scale and adjust, because I do think you need to increase in those higher numbers.
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I'm gonna stay within 2.8 - 3 during the next few days depending on pre-shot readings. I'll be working tmr so can only do amps, pmps n a midnite +6 test.
 
Waheeda said:
That's a bit of a jump for 200-250 as compared to 180-200. 2.4 vs 1.5.
I'm giving him 2.8 for 250-300. I'm happy if he can stay within yellow whole day. Blue is a bonus.
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We usually don't recommend beginners shoot at all under 200, but given your cat takes a relatively large dose to come down I figured it was safe. You hold the needle, so what your comfortable with. It would probably be safe doing 2 units 175-200, I'm just hesitant to suggest it without data.
 
JanetNJ said:
We usually don't recommend beginners shoot at all under 200, but given your cat takes a relatively large dose to come down I figured it was safe. You hold the needle, so what your comfortable with. It would probably be safe doing 2 units 175-200, I'm just hesitant to suggest it without data.
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Perhaps if it happens I'll take the safer approach of 1.6 for few shots n increase if I don't see much results. I can see these 2 days the 2.8 is doing him good. His legs seem a bit less wobbly n he's more relaxed. But we bathed him today so the mid day shot went crazy.
 
Waheeda said:
Perhaps if it happens I'll take the safer approach of 1.6 for few shots n increase if I don't see much results. I can see these 2 days the 2.8 is doing him good. His legs seem a bit less wobbly n he's more relaxed. But we bathed him today so the mid day shot went crazy.
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I'm glad to hear there's improvement with his legs!
 
JanetNJ said:
We usually don't recommend beginners shoot at all under 200, but given your cat takes a relatively large dose to come down I figured it was safe. You hold the needle, so what your comfortable with. It would probably be safe doing 2 units 175-200, I'm just hesitant to suggest it without data.
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We like being cautious :). Janet has helped many other Vetsulin users with sliding scale doses :bighug: That's why I tagged her early on for you :cat: My Vetusulin go-to lady!
 
Yong said:
Love to hear that! :bighug:
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Was looking at d can of burp that he luv. D active ingredients are: tuna whole meat, aloe, polysaccharide gum, enhancer, vitamins n minerals, sunflower seed oil, glucose, taurine, water.

It has glucose! Is this why he needs high insulin dose? Cos of this burp food?
 
Interesting :bookworm:. Only way to tell is if you can feed him another low carb food for a bit without glucose and see if it is really effecting him. Your SS will provide the evidence! Then let us know if it's confirmed! :)
 
Yong said:
Interesting :bookworm:. Only way to tell is if you can feed him another low carb food for a bit without glucose and see if it is really effecting him. Your SS will provide the evidence! Then let us know if it's confirmed! :)
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Ya giving him fancy feast for whole day today. Will see if any improvement.
Do u know if Firstmate grain free dry food is suitable for diabetic cats? Wellness core also has grain free diet. There's a supplier here that sells young again that Janet feeds her cat but it comes in huge 3.6kg bag.
 
I'd have to look more about the Firstmate because I haven't heard of that brand but keep in mind grain-free does not mean carb-free. See if you can get a free sample from YoungAgain or the supplier that you found it at. I get the 3.6kg bag for my boy :)
 
Yong said:
I'd have to look more about the Firstmate because I haven't heard of that brand but keep in mind grain-free does not mean carb-free. See if you can get a free sample from YoungAgain or the supplier that you found it at. I get the 3.6kg bag for my boy :)
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Is your boy a fussy eater? Mine is. I bought one brand before which was recommended by the vet and he refused to eat. Tried Royal canin diabetic also but he din like it. I'm very tempted to try young again. No sample though. I thk I'll get it tmr and hopefully he eats or else the other 4 can help finish it.
I was looking through your SS. U had some fuschia for pre shots but u get some blues mid cycles! Wish I will get that soon. Mine seems to not drop a lot mid cycle.
 
After looking at your SS I suggest:
  • you keep up with the gradual dose increases of 0.2 u at a time
  • hold a dose only 3 cycles if it doesn't bring him down into yellow and, preferably, blue
  • get a test in the +5 to +7 range daily, either daytime or evening
  • give the same dose AM and PM until you get him into a better range
  • maybe try sliding scale dosing when you have better numbers more consistently.
I think this plan would get him out of pink and red sooner. His cycles are flat because the dose is probably too low.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
After looking at your SS I suggest:
  • you keep up with the gradual dose increases of 0.2 u at a time
  • hold a dose only 3 cycles if it doesn't bring him down into yellow and, preferably, blue
  • get a test in the +5 to +7 range daily, either daytime or evening
  • give the same dose AM and PM until you get him into a better range
  • maybe try sliding scale dosing when you have better numbers more consistently.
I think this plan would get him out of pink and red sooner. His cycles are flat because the dose is probably too low.
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Thanks! May I ask why take at +5 n +7? It looks like the lowest point is at +6.
how high a dose have u seen given ? I'm so worried if 3 is already high.
 
Waheeda said:
Thanks! May I ask why take at +5 n +7? It looks like the lowest point is at +6.
how high a dose have u seen given ? I'm so worried if 3 is already high.
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The nadir can move around usually from +5 to +7. By scattering mid cycle tests in that range you'll get an idea of how low he's going over many days.

There are cats here with medical conditions that cause them to need VERY high doses of insulin - 10 u plus. A kitty needs the dose he needs and 3 u is not that high. You just have to keep increasing until you reach his "good dose zone" and you'll know it when you see it: suddenly there'll be a lot more yellows, then blues and eventually dark greens on his SS. You have a way to go yet.
 
Also: he's probably losing weight because he's NOT regulated. His BG is consistently high which means he lacks the insulin needed to get glucose from his food into his cells in sufficient quantity to put on/keep on good weight. A very general description of regulation is BG in the low to mid 200s at PS and in the low 100s to high double digits at nadir. It's rare that one dose will keep BG that stable over time. Rather, its a case of testing to see what's going on with BG and tweaking the dose up or down a little bit to keep kitty in that regulated range. The good dose is a moving target.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The nadir can move around usually from +5 to +7. By scattering mid cycle tests in that range you'll get an idea of how low he's going over many days.

There are cats here with medical conditions that cause them to need VERY high doses of insulin - 10 u plus. A kitty needs the dose he needs and 3 u is not that high. You just have to keep increasing until you reach his "good dose zone" and you'll know it when you see it: suddenly there'll be a lot more yellows, then blues and eventually dark greens on his SS. You have a way to go yet.
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Yes my journey has just started :) I see u guys have been doing this for months and it's getting more colourful. Will add more mid cycle range soon. Thks!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Also: he's probably losing weight because he's NOT regulated. His BG is consistently high which means he lacks the insulin needed to get glucose from his food into his cells in sufficient quantity to put on/keep on good weight. A very general description of regulation is BG in the low to mid 200s at PS and in the low 100s to high double digits at nadir. It's rare that one dose will keep BG that stable over time. Rather, its a case of testing to see what's going on with BG and tweaking the dose up or down a little bit to keep kitty in that regulated range. The good dose is a moving target.
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This is Sth new I learnt since joining this board. I really thought it's a fixed dose once we find it. Looking at all the SS, I realised one has to keep tweaking the dose to get it in the good range! Now I'm gaining more confident in deciding wat to giv him. I'm seeing more yellows than when I first started. Really encouraging!
 
Waheeda said:
Yes my journey has just started :) I see u guys have been doing this for months and it's getting more colourful. Will add more mid cycle range soon. Thks!
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You can't judge your kitty's progress against my guy's SS. Mine is an extremely complicated to dose cat - not typical.
 
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