Freya's ProZinc Saga

Status
Not open for further replies.
Blair & Freya

Blair & Freya

Member
Hey there, first post, though I've been lurking a while. My cat Freya and I are in Scotland, and she was diagnosed with FD in late February, initially put on Caninsulin, but changed to ProZinc this week. I've tried to be as diligent as possible with her spreadsheet and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on it. There's a US tab for those more familiar with those measurements. Note that she started the ProZinc on the 19th of this month.

I didn't give her any insulin for 24 hours prior to starting ProZinc. Interestingly, her AM pre-shot was lower than usual despite not having insulin. After the switch, it seems like while her numbers are overall much better, her pre-shots have been climbing up, and I'm not sure what to make of it. Or is it too soon to make anything of it? It looks to me like she could be bouncing.

I called to check in with her usual vet, who's apparently not in, and I kind of groaned because I knew it meant I'd have to deal with the other one who tells me not to check her BG. I just refuse to do that. As you can see, her numbers are still erratic, and I am just not comfortable shooting blindly and leaving it to chance. Needless to say, I got no guidance from there. No wonder that particular vet goes on about how long their other diabetic patients continue to be unregulated.

Anyway, Freya seems to be feeling much better than she did a few weeks ago, and it's encouraging to see the insulin finally lasting a bit longer for her. I think she's a lot closer to being sorted out, but there are still some issues. Any guidance would be appreciated!
 
Welcome Freya and her Mum! Still a little early on East Coast NA and it's a weekend :). I'm glad you are refusing to not test :bighug:. Prozinc is a longer lasting insulin than Caninsulin and we'll definitely help you with her! Don't worry about the U.S. numbers, just fill in the World tab and it automatically converts, use the mmol/L :).
Love the top line of your SS! Since you're familiar with SS, one small thing that can be helpful to notice, and more obvious, add a row with merged cells indicating the switch to Prozinc, if you don't mind :smuggrin:. If you could also add to your signature you are using human meter too :). I'm so demanding, aren't I? LOL

Looking at her initial week of Prozinc, I think those are very good numbers. I think you should hold this dose for a while longer, it seems pretty ideal (although the ideal dose can change). The most likely reason for her PS numbers rising is mild bouncing. Her body is still getting used to being in the normal BG ranges that fall within 2.8 - 6.7mmol/L (50-120 mg/dl) on human meters like the one you are using.

Kris & Teasel wrote this up to help explain the bouncing phenomena:
  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
  7. Many vets have little/no understanding of the bouncing phenomenon.
Lastly, I will leave you with this just to be safe: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
Feel free to ask us anything :cat: Keep doing a great job with Freya!
 
Hi Freya, and Freya's parent, and welcome! Ignoring vet advice already? You'll fit right in here! ;)

Normally we suggest a starting dose of 1.0u, and then slowly working up, but I have to say, your curves look just about perfect on the 2.5u. The prozinc curve should look like a smile, which yours do, and you want the nadir numbers to be low blues or greens, which you have. What I've been told is that when cats are in those low blue/green numbers, their pancreas can heal. So right now, I would say to stick with this dose for awhile and keep monitoring. If the mid-cycles keep looking like this, it is likely that those pre-shot numbers will start to come down. It does take time though.

I'm curious what others will say when they get here.

You've done a great job of getting everything going with your spreadsheet and home testing. My only other question would be food. Do you know the carb content of the food you're feeding? Is it a wet food? I also see some notes that your kitty is hungry. Diabetic cats can't properly absorb their food, so they are starving. If your kitty needs to lose weight, then you do need to restrict it. However, if Freya's weight is okay, I would suggest that you give her more food. Many of us feed several small meals throughout the day which seems to help our kitties.
 
@Yong --
Sure, I can add some of that info to make things clearer. And yeah, I'm from Florida myself, so pretty familiar with the more annoying aspects of time zones between here and there, hahah. (Freya actually came over here with me -- car, plane, taxi, chunnel, train, in four countries, she did it all because I didn't want her left in the cargo hold.) I do have the hypo page bookmarked to my phone, honey on hand, and some contraband food squirrelled away in case she needs it. I've been trying to get a feel for her mid-cycle levels because sometimes she'll drop so drastically out of nowhere, but so far it looks like the peak pattern is fairly predictable. I guess I'll see how bouncy she gets and reevaluate after a while.​

@Djamila --
Actually, the vet wanted her to start at 3u since she'd already been on Caninsulin. I wasn't comfortable with that, so the 2.5u was a compromise, I guess. As for the voraciousness, she had lost weight and was feeling like skin and bones before switching her food and getting her numbers down. (Edited to add: It is a low-carb wet food.) She's actually gained weight since then and is close to her ideal weight, but she needs to get her muscle back again. I stopped feeding her so much extra once she seemed to be staying the same weight, and am a little worried about feeding her too much and getting her too fat. She's never been obese but has a tendency to get too chubby. The past couple days, I've been giving her tiny snacks to see if that might help calm her down about it.​

@Kris & Teasel --
Hahah thanks, I'm a little particular.​

Thanks for the responses, all! Freya has some opinions about this whole thing herself:

NuhzJSq.png
 
Last edited:
Love the photo! Hopefully the snacks will help her feel better, and they also seem to help with the bouncing a bit by evening out the curve. Although again, your cycles are looking pretty good already. Sam tends toward the chubby as well. He's at 11 pounds right now, but the vet says he really needs to lose another half pound. I tend to disagree and think he's plenty skinny already!

You shouldn't see those drastic drops as much on Prozinc. They can happen, but not as much as with Caninsulin. And really, from the prozinc data you have so far, she doesn't look particularly bouncy to me. Her pre-shots are all in a pretty close range. Even those two yellows are within the error allowance to be virtually the same as the pinks. This morning's PS is a little high, but you've had higher on the Caninsulin, so I think even that is consistent with Freya's normal ranges right now.

Is there something you'd like us to call you? Or just "Freya's human"? ;)
 
Hello and welcome! I'm so glad to hear that you're testing at home and your SS is beautiful! That's also a great photo of Freya!

Yong and Djamila have given you great info already so I'll just add let us know if you have any questions at all! We'd love to help in any way we can.
 
Djamila said:
Love the photo! Hopefully the snacks will help her feel better, and they also seem to help with the bouncing a bit by evening out the curve. Although again, your cycles are looking pretty good already. Sam tends toward the chubby as well. He's at 11 pounds right now, but the vet says he really needs to lose another half pound. I tend to disagree and think he's plenty skinny already!

You shouldn't see those drastic drops as much on Prozinc. They can happen, but not as much as with Caninsulin. And really, from the prozinc data you have so far, she doesn't look particularly bouncy to me. Her pre-shots are all in a pretty close range. Even those two yellows are within the error allowance to be virtually the same as the pinks. This morning's PS is a little high, but you've had higher on the Caninsulin, so I think even that is consistent with Freya's normal ranges right now.

Is there something you'd like us to call you? Or just "Freya's human"? ;)
Click to expand...
I'm glad nothing seems to be out of the ordinary. Just hoping it doesn't trend higher as the days go on. It is nice not seeing those freaky steep drops like with the Caninsulin, the biggest problem with which was that they were unpredictable.

Yeah, your guy doesn't look too fat to me. Freya could maybe gain a tad more, but I'm sure she doesn't need as much as she wants. She tends to be greedy. With smaller meals she gets all wound up and restless, I guess because she doesn't feel full. If she had her way, she'd probably have six huge meals a day, which is why I'm just trying some little snacks in between. Her food stress is kind of annoying alongside her tendency to gain weight. Last thing I need is for her to get too fat for the insulin to work as well. She's a smallish cat -- at least to my American sensibilities; I've noticed British people think she's bigger. The typical cat here seems smaller overall than the typical American cat. She's around 9-ish pounds. I remember once I had her in her carrier on a train, and this little old lady peered in and said, "Oh! It's a big black cat!" And I'm just wondering what she'd think if she saw my parents' 20-pound boys back in Florida.

And whoops, my name is Blair, but I guess in my haste to register for the forums I just put in the cat's name, hahah. I'll have to edit that.
 
I wondered the same about the Maine coons, hahah.

Well, I am back again with a conundrum. Tomorrow will be Freya's seventh day on 2.5u of ProZinc. Her daytime nadirs have been in the yellow for four days, which is a step backward from the Caninsulin. I understand yesterday being higher because I gave her some extra food, but looking at the numbers around it, I don't think it likely to have made that much difference. I even tried a fat 2.5u today, but that doesn't seem to have helped much, and she didn't get anything extra to eat. I am also waiting on a delivery of more test strips, so trying to conserve what I have for the next couple of days in case of a hypo or something like that. I blew through the last 50 pretty fast!

Do you guys think I should try tweaking her dose? Those numbers at the start were so nice, and it seems like she's backtracking for days now, sometimes in quite a striking way, such as that 265 at her supposed nadir yesterday when it was 95 a few days prior. Ugh! Not sure exactly what is going on with it or the best way to proceed.
 
Blair & Freya said:
I wondered the same about the Maine coons, hahah.

Well, I am back again with a conundrum. Tomorrow will be Freya's seventh day on 2.5u of ProZinc. Her daytime nadirs have been in the yellow for four days, which is a step backward from the Caninsulin. I understand yesterday being higher because I gave her some extra food, but looking at the numbers around it, I don't think it likely to have made that much difference. I even tried a fat 2.5u today, but that doesn't seem to have helped much, and she didn't get anything extra to eat. I am also waiting on a delivery of more test strips, so trying to conserve what I have for the next couple of days in case of a hypo or something like that. I blew through the last 50 pretty fast!

Do you guys think I should try tweaking her dose? Those numbers at the start were so nice, and it seems like she's backtracking for days now, sometimes in quite a striking way, such as that 265 at her supposed nadir yesterday when it was 95 a few days prior. Ugh! Not sure exactly what is going on with it or the best way to proceed.
Click to expand...
I'd stay with 2.5 u for now. She gave you some lovely green overnight a couple of days ago and now she's bouncing, as we call it. Here's something I wrote for someone else about bouncing. Maybe it'll help:

Here's how it works:

  1. BG goes low OR lower than usual OR drops too quickly.
  2. Kitty's body panics and thinks there's danger (OMG! My BG is too low!).
  3. Complex physiologic processes take glycogen stored in the liver (I think of it as "bounce fuel"), convert it to glucose and dump it into the bloodstream to counteract the perceived dangerously low BG.
  4. These processes go into overdrive in kitties who are bounce prone and keep the BG propped up varying lengths of time (AKA bouncing).
  5. Bounce prone kitty repeats this until his body learns that healthy low numbers are safe. Some kitties are slow learners.
  6. Too high a dose of insulin can keep them bouncing over and over until the " bounce fuel" runs out and they crash - ie., have a hypo episode. That's why we worry so much about kitties that have had too high a starting dose prescribed by the vet and the owner isn't home testing.
  7. Many vets have little/no understanding of the bouncing phenomenon.
 
@Kris & Teasel --
I guess I wasn't sure how much time could pass before more elevated numbers were considered out of bounce response territory and into needing an increase. There were certain days when I could definitely see it after a lower cycle, but I guess I was confused since it's been pretty flat and higher during the AM for days -- so I wasn't sure what she would be bouncing from, if that makes sense. I am beginning to think she's doing this on purpose to get me back for all the ear jabs.​
 
I sort of agree with both of you. The dose seems good in that you got some nice numbers on it, and got some nice drops from the pre-shot to the mid-cycle. During the AM cycle, it's possible she's going to need a small increase, but I wouldn't do it until you have more test strips and can maybe grab a second mid-cycle during the day just to be sure you aren't missing something.
 
Blair & Freya said:
@Kris & Teasel --
I guess I wasn't sure how much time could pass before more elevated numbers were considered out of bounce response territory and into needing an increase. There were certain days when I could definitely see it after a lower cycle, but I guess I was confused since it's been pretty flat and higher during the AM for days -- so I wasn't sure what she would be bouncing from, if that makes sense. I am beginning to think she's doing this on purpose to get me back for all the ear jabs.​
Click to expand...
We generally say a bounce can last up to 6 cycles after the precipitating event. She was down to 5 overnight on 21 Apr. You're now on the 5th cycle since then so I'd wait to see what she'll do today, tonight and tomorrow AM before changing the dose. Djamila is referring to a sliding scale dosing method where you tailor the dose to the preshot number. It works very well in some cats but I couldn't do it with mine because he's extremely reactive to dose changes and it would have created chaos.
 
Last edited:
Maybe she knew I was complaining earlier, because her pre-shot just now was 166/9.2?! (Yes, we're on a bit of a weird routine for GMT due to late work hours and such.) I even tested a second time to confirm because it was such an anomaly. I wonder if the fat dose earlier made some difference, or if it was just coincidental. I guess she's not getting a shot. Or is it possible to give one a little later? She's already eaten because I didn't think stalling for 20 minutes was going to make that big a difference to be shootable. Plus, she was seriously freaking out to be fed -- getting into everything, sniffing around the floors, and jumping onto counters looking for anything to eat. I'm hoping it wasn't a mistake to feed her now but she was just going mental.

I've also been looking into automatic feeders that can take wet food, but if she knows there is food in something, I'm convinced she wouldn't quit messing with it until she managed to break it open! The things look so flimsy too.

Edit: Or wait, is that an okay number to shoot a reduced dose? I feel like I'm not familiar enough with her response to this insulin yet to figure out what to give her. Sometimes it brings her down so low.
 
Last edited:
Kris & Teasel said:
Djamila is referring to a sliding scale dosing method where you tailor the dose to the preshot number. It works very well in some cats but I couldn't do it with mine because he's extremely reactive to dose changes and it would have created chaos.
Click to expand...

Oops. Sorry for the lack of clarity! No, I didn't mean to suggest a sliding scale. I am not a fan or those either -- (at least until you start reducing doses, that's a whole different mess). Chasing the pre-shot around is almost always a losing game. Some cats need a slightly different dose morning vs. evening because their nadir is lower at night. So I was thinking you might possibly need a slightly higher dose AM than PM, but again, there wasn't enough data to know, and your dose was looking pretty good already. Glad to see the bounce clearing and it didn't matter anyway!
 
Freya hasn't felt so well!

She seemed fine and happy yesterday, playing, acting cute with her toys. Her BG even came back down to blue at nadir again, closer to how it was at the start of her ProZinc. Then she vomited at +1 past her PMPS, which is unlike her. She's not a finicky eater, has never had problems with new foods, never had any sort of reaction to any food, and in general isn't puke-prone the way a couple other of my cats have been. She's always had a healthy GI system, so this was very odd for her. Anyway, she ate another meal right after the vomiting and had no appetite issues. She wasn't acting like normal though and kept going off by herself to sit in empty rooms, seeming subdued and just not feeling well. As you can see, her BG stayed high. Could that just be from feeling sickness/pain? Last year when she was still eating dry, she had a period of throwing up, I think because she was wolfing it down so fast. That was the only time I ever really recall her throwing up until last night. Once we got a big mat and spread out the dry food, that stopped. And the times it did happen, she'd puke very shortly after eating and never appeared to feel sick. Last night was different because more than an hour had passed since eating, and she looked out of sorts and unwell.

I did speak with an emergency/out-of-hours vet, but ultimately decided to wait until morning for her regular vet since it was so late anyway, and she improved some as time went on. My husband stayed up to watch her while I got a few hours of sleep, then we traded off so I could take her to the vet first thing. She was much better by morning. The vet examined her, but didn't run any tests and instead sent me home with stuff to test for ketones given her weight loss and flaky coat, and some raniditine in case she feels sick again. I was told this might help if she was having some pancreatitis issues or other things like that? (She isn't diagnosed or anything.) As for the ketones, that was between negative and trace. I had a hard time telling for sure, but it looked like it leaned more toward negative. I do plan to get more strips, though.

She was shaking a little at the vet's office, I'm guessing from stress. When we got home this morning, she ate just fine and kept it down. By an hour or so later, she was acting 100% normal again. I went to test her at +5, and her BG was 61 (3.4). As I still expected it to drop and she's been unpredictable, I gave her some wet food along with a little dry. No vomit. At +6, BG was 56 (3.1), so I gave her more food with a little bit of honey mixed in. Still no vomit. That brought her back up to blue. Now, during all this, she hadn't been acting sluggish or anything like that, but she was getting frantically hungry. She didn't seem to feel bad or sick, just hungry and gobbling up whatever I put down.

The vet (which yet again, wasn't her usual vet) advised me to give her 1.5u for her PM shot tonight (assuming it's shootable), then try her at 2u in the AM.

How does that sound to you all, and do you have any suggestions?

And a note about foods (on the UK food lists): The Smilla canned food seemed okay for her on certain days, but I feel like looking at the overall trend, she stayed higher on it than on the Whiskas 7+ jelly pouches. She's kept having Whiskas on occasion while eating Smilla and Bozita, but a few nights ago I put her back on the Whiskas as her primary food for now. And again she seems to be staying lower on it, aside from her bad time last night. I know for sure it's lower carb than Bozita. I also have some MAC's food to try her on in the coming days, and I'm hoping it'll be an improvement over Smilla and Bozita as far as her BG is concerned. I just kind of want to give her system a break for the moment and not start her on anything she hasn't had before until I'm sure she's better off.
 
I'm so sorry to hear Freya isn't feeling well! Sounds like you and your husband are doing a great job of taking care of her! I don't know much about tummy upset and pancreatitis in cats, so I'll leave that to one of the many folks on here who have experience with it.

As for the dosing, I think dropping to 1.5 and then back to 2.0 is too much movement on the dose. If your PMPS is in her normal ranges, I do agree that a slight reduction might be a good idea (3.1 is pretty close to hypo ranges), but I would say 2.25, and then get a couple of mid-cycle tests, of course. Because she was pretty low this morning, my best guess is that she'll be a bit high tonight.

However, if someone who knows something about stomach issues has a different recommendation, go with their suggestion as I'm not sure how that would impact things!
 
I agree with dropping the dose to 2.25 u (eyeballed on the syringe) because of those low greens. There's a drug called Cerenia often prescribed here (Canada and US) for nausea and vomiting. You might ask about it.
 
I was just thinking 2.25U too! :D Maury had a one time throw-up incident a little while ago. I made a Vet appointment but told them I wanted to monitor him for 24 hours before taking him in but ended up cancelling appointment. He had seemed a bit hungrier so I think he just ate too fast. He was getting 2.25oz of wet food for meals, so for the next few meals I gave him half. Waited about 10-15 mins, then gave the remaining. Hope this was the cause for Freya's and that she feels better soon :bighug: You guys are doing great! Also, here is the UK Food list (I think) compiled by Eliz and Bertie: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1J5JpMe6TDXrHq_aTl9hUtHy6Gs9oRBqlz4nPGKxtySA/pubhtml
 
@Djamila / @Kris & Teasel / @Yong --
Okay, thanks! I know the sheet says they were fat 2s, but I wrote them as that mostly because while I tried to get 2.25s, I'm really not sure exactly what the hell they were on these u40 syringes... but uh, 2.25 was my intention? Hahah. Those 2.50 Fs may have been more like 2.75s. It's so hard to tell. I plan to get the u100s eventually, but just starting out, I wanted to get used to syringes without having to worry about the conversions. I could just see myself accidentally giving the completely wrong dose. I found those conversion charts on here though, so I'll have to make note of that.
​
She stayed relatively high and flat last night, but gave me a better AMPS of 304 (16.9) this morning. No more puking either so far! She still seemed to feel a bit puny yesterday morning, but is back to being herself now. Fingers crossed that she's through with that. If it happens again, I'll try the suggestion of taking away half for 10 to 15 minutes.

At some point this coming week, I'm going to try her on the MAC's food that arrived from the Happy Kitty Company. When I calculated the varieties I picked, they're 1%, 1.5%, 2%, and and 2.5% carbs. She's currently eating 3.87% and seems to be extremely carb sensitive. It really made a difference and brought her up when she tried a 5.5% carb food. Smilla, while also low carb, also seems to be too much for her, and just switching back to the 3.87% Whiskas seems to have made a noticeable impact on her numbers... but I'd rather she eat something better than Whiskas all the time if possible, especially with how the big multinationals are always changing recipes. Do you think when I try her on the lower-carb MAC's, I should give her a slightly lesser dose to be safer?
 
Blair & Freya said:
Do you think when I try her on the lower-carb MAC's, I should give her a slightly lesser dose to be safer?
Click to expand...
Maybe make the food changeover gradually when you can do some extra tests but leave the dose the same. If the very low carb food allows her numbers to drop significantly, you'll catch it with the testing. Then you can tweak the dose. Best not to change two variables at the same time. :)
 
My kitty was super carb sensitive and we had to give her lower carb food to try to help that out. Making the food change gradual is a good idea to keep the variables the same and also to avoid any tummy upset that can sometimes happen!
 
Yeah, sometimes I'll check out the foods other forum members have their cats eating, and I'm amazed that their BG stays so nice because I'm used to Freya being so carb sensitive that anything higher than what she's on now seems to mess with her. I know all cats are different, but it kind of blows my mind, hahah. She definitely seems to be in the crowd that needs 4% or less.

She's a bit higher today as I figured she'd be, especially with the lowered dose, but she's still getting down into the blues -- better than those bouncy yellows last night. Of course I hoped she'd be a tad lower, but honestly it's better so far than I expected!
 
I guess I spoke too soon because now she's going higher and much flatter in pinks and yellows. 299 (16.6) at +6 the other night, not much better last night, and 272 (15.1) at +5 today! And the pre-shots were looking promising too. Ugh!
 
Hahah. I guess on the positive side, she was so high that I didn't have to stay home again or worry about her while going to town for dinner?!
 
I guess I should edit this thread title at this point.

She had her second ever yellow PMPS tonight, which is nice. Granted, that number was barely different from her AMPS and nadir earlier because she's been so flat... but still!

I gave the same dose as I have been -- my eyeballed and probably poor attempt at 2.25u. I was tempted to give a little less, but in the past, I've regretted being overly aggressive about adjusting doses with marginally lower pre-shots. It has me a little on edge because with how she's been lately, it could either be high and flat again, or decent, or so low I have to watch her. Ugh, who am I kidding, I will probably watch her obsessively anyway, or at least check her at +4 and +5. It's a good thing she's cute.

nVnjrBk.png


One day recently, I went out looking for a container for her testing supplies. They just happened to have this tin at TK Maxx, so I'm pretty sure it was meant to be.
 
Blair & Freya said:
I guess I should edit this thread title at this point.

She had her second ever yellow PMPS tonight, which is nice. Granted, that number was barely different from her AMPS and nadir earlier because she's been so flat... but still!

I gave the same dose as I have been -- my eyeballed and probably poor attempt at 2.25u. I was tempted to give a little less, but in the past, I've regretted being overly aggressive about adjusting doses with marginally lower pre-shots. It has me a little on edge because with how she's been lately, it could either be high and flat again, or decent, or so low I have to watch her. Ugh, who am I kidding, I will probably watch her obsessively anyway, or at least check her at +4 and +5. It's a good thing she's cute.

nVnjrBk.png


One day recently, I went out looking for a container for her testing supplies. They just happened to have this tin at TK Maxx, so I'm pretty sure it was meant to be.
Click to expand...
Purrfect! She's a cutie! :)
 
Annnd... 266 (14.8) at +5. Blah! I guess at least I can actually go to sleep for good now rather than napping.

Weird thing is, despite the higher/flatter numbers for multiple cycles, her polyuria was much better today. Like, improved enough that it wouldn't shock me for a non-diabetic cat, which is really saying something for her. Not sure how that makes any sense, but I'll take it!
 
Blair & Freya said:
Annnd... 266 (14.8) at +5. Blah! I guess at least I can actually go to sleep for good now rather than napping.

Weird thing is, despite the higher/flatter numbers for multiple cycles, her polyuria was much better today. Like, improved enough that it wouldn't shock me for a non-diabetic cat, which is really saying something for her. Not sure how that makes any sense, but I'll take it!
Click to expand...
There's often very little about this that makes sense! :confused:
 
Red pre-shot tonight, disappointing.

She's also lost a little weight since starting ProZinc... and after just having gained some back, too. So I think I'm going to have to feed her more for a while and will start on that tomorrow. I expect this means I might end up having to increase her dose after a few days? It was already looking to me like maybe I'd have to give the slightest bit more even before deciding to give her extra food.

She's been accustomed to eating twice a day and doesn't seem particularly bothered by that. She likes to eat large meals, so my intention is to give her the bulk of her food just before injections, with a smaller snack somewhere in between. If I give her some more food a couple of hours after her injections, should that be alright? I'm not sure how food in between shots generally affects things, so I don't know the best way to go about that.
 
You might need to increase...I'd wait and see, though. If you need to increase the dose to increase the food, that's what you do! :)

Several people give snacks on here. I know Caitlin gives a snack around +6 by using a pet feeder as her kitty would sometimes go kind of low during the day. As long as no food 2 hours before shot, you're good.
 
I like the idea of a timed feeder, in theory... but when Freya knows there's food somewhere, she can get obsessive. I have a feeling she'd break into a feeder unless it was very well constructed! If anyone has found a brand that can stand up to a particularly persistent cat, I'd love to know, hahah.

I ended up giving her extra food tonight since she was hungry, and she's settled down now. Looking at her, she still has a belly, but her little hips are too obvious for my liking. Kind of strange looking since she's not equally thin all over.

Maybe I'll use snack time to start to introduce her new foods, since they're even lower carb than her main meals at the moment. Assuming her BG doesn't disagree with some random ingredient, it should interfere less with her levels. I feel very fortunate that at least she's never been a picky eater or prone to sickness from food changes.

Oh, something else I've mentioned to the vet before, but they haven't really investigated: her legs. She will thump her back leg(s), like a rabbit, or like something is on her foot, but nothing is there. She'll also shake her front paws and lick at them. Her front legs tremble slightly when she stands. Is this likely to just be the diabetes, or could it be some other undetected thing? She thumped just now which made me realise I hadn't posted about it. She doesn't act like she's in pain with this, and she still jumps up on the bed, chairs, and window sills regularly. But I sure don't like it.
 
Blair & Freya said:
Looking at her, she still has a belly, but her little hips are too obvious for my liking. Kind of strange looking since she's not equally thin all over.
Click to expand...
Seems typical weight loss in diabetic cats with neuropathy lose muscle mass. May be why she looks thinner in the back end / hip area. Maury's loss is more obvious there too.
Blair & Freya said:
Oh, something else I've mentioned to the vet before, but they haven't really investigated: her legs. She will thump her back leg(s), like a rabbit, or like something is on her foot, but nothing is there. She'll also shake her front paws and lick at them. Her front legs tremble slightly when she stands. Is this likely to just be the diabetes, or could it be some other undetected thing? She thumped just now which made me realise I hadn't posted about it. She doesn't act like she's in pain with this, and she still jumps up on the bed, chairs, and window sills regularly. But I sure don't like it.
Click to expand...
One of our GA cats used to do that, most of his life, so his nickname was Thumper. Never found a reason but thinking with Freya, it could be the nerves "Firing" or sending partial signals that trigger. Maury has also done the shake and lick on his front paws, even saw him kick the air with a back one. For him, and hopefully Freya too, I think it's his nerves healing so some signal is getting through again. I haven't done any of my Librarian work, just lost in my head thinking from my own nerve experiences. :)
 
Yong said:
Seems typical weight loss in diabetic cats with neuropathy lose muscle mass. May be why she looks thinner in the back end / hip area. Maury's loss is more obvious there too.

One of our GA cats used to do that, most of his life, so his nickname was Thumper. Never found a reason but thinking with Freya, it could be the nerves "Firing" or sending partial signals that trigger. Maury has also done the shake and lick on his front paws, even saw him kick the air with a back one. For him, and hopefully Freya too, I think it's his nerves healing so some signal is getting through again. I haven't done any of my Librarian work, just lost in my head thinking from my own nerve experiences. :)
Click to expand...

Poor Maury. Has he fattened up any? Freya's state bothers me because just six months ago, she felt strong and muscular (or as muscular as these squishy animals can feel) when you'd pick her up.

She never had the unusal hock-walk that I know is indicative of neuropathy. Could the trembling/shaking/thumping maybe be a lesser degree of it, or is that not how it works? It's not something I noticed until relatively recently. I was out of the country for a couple months while Freya stayed here with my husband, and when I came back, she was showing symptoms of diabetes. (The weight loss was all the more noticeable to me since I hadn't seen her in a while, and suddenly she was weak and fragile skin and bones!) That was how she ended up diagnosed, but I don't recall when the leg stuff started. I just know she wasn't doing it when I left in December. The vet has asked if I can get it on video, and it's like... not really??? The thumping is random, rapid, and over in about one second. And the front leg trembling is so slight that I don't think it would show up on a video. Curiously, I haven't noticed either of these things happening when she's lying down. Hm. There was a period where she wasn't jumping on things as much, or running to play. I guess that could be related to this. I've just always heard of more dramatic neuropathy symptoms, so I started worrying it had to be something else.
 
Maury's muscle loss happened relatively quick, to me. Last I weighed him (my scale keeps yelling low battery and I keep forgetting to change it) he had gained almost 2 lbs. I won't be around to :bookworm: and confirm tomorrow but I do think it maybe a mild form. So the nerves are mis-firing, so to speak. Tendency to occur when weight is applied. If you sit straight up in a chair with your legs at 90° roughly, to the ground and push up from your foot so it's more on toes, your leg will probably start shaking too. Relax your leg muscles as best you can. Do it laying down and it shouldn't happen. Like I said, Maury does the front paw thing too and have seen mild trembling. When I saw him more on his hocks that's when I made the Vet appointment. First Vet (long time Vet) refused to do blood work. Said he was just fat and needed to lose weight. She was glad to see he lost weight and was eating less (for a period of time). I left with fire burning in my eyes.... That's another tangent and there was quite a few months before his diabetic signs started. Methylcobalamin B12 (Zobaline is popular here) can help speed the nerve healing process but I read and have heard the best thing is to still get BG numbers under control :). Sorry for the mild rambling lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top