? 4/29 Marvin AMPS 410 4.5 u + 2h45m 394

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

I can't believe I would be happy that my cat's poop is normal soft and not hard as a rock and dry. It is finally normal , the powder lax a day is working.

Ok yesterday I said to someone that in the most part Marvin lets me take his BG, once in while he will act up. Well I guess I shouldn't have said that cause the last 2 times, he has been a real pain. Love bites, moving his ear, head and he speaks.. hmmm, I saw the towel wrap thing on u-tube and really don't want to go there. I am trying the treat thing too, so hopefully, I can train him to associated good things when it's time for BG tests.... I guess he is getting some energy back (wonder if it's the poop thing)...

I also thing the B12 supplements are working a little. He sits up to eat a bit longer, and today ran (well slow walk, at least he got up) for his food and treats.

I would love to hear from someone whose cat dosage was 5 or more units before they saw BG start to tread downwards. Meaning the high unit number was not related to overdosing, but was the right dose for their cat.

I've updated my spread sheet, any insight is always appreciated. Also trying to better understand some of the terminology, I have read the stickies, but so much to take in, I think I am only grasping 10 to 20% at a time. Term of the day "what is active cycle, and why is it important?"....

This is a wonderful site, everyone is wonderful. Thanks for putting up with Marvin and I..... I promise I will get it, and understand. My baby has to get better, it just him and I, and our dog Jazz....lol

 

[Tracey&Jones (GA)]

We need a poop emoji! Sorry no advice on the dose situation. The poop comment made me smile.

 

[Sharon14]

Yay for normal poop and improved walking! @Bobbie And Bubba had to go over 5u before she saw improvement and is now OTJ(off the juice). My cat has a high dose condition so went well over 5u before we saw improvement.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

Yay for normal poop and improved walking! @Bobbie And Bubba had to go over 5u before she saw improvement and is now OTJ(off the juice). My cat has a high dose condition so went well over 5u before we saw improvement.

I just looked at Colin's SS. Feeling a bit better seeing that others have gone over 5u. I was getting concerned as am really not seeing much changes in Marvin's BG. Do you know what the high dose condition for you cat is caused by, or is it "every cat is different"? hard to tell by pictures but, it looks like you cat is also a bigger cat like mine. Not meaning fat, but length and structure. Do you think that is also a contributor for high dosing needs? I wouldn't mind you opnion on Marvin's SS. Part of me wants to increase to 5u, now and other part is not sure most feedback is .25, which if his BG were in yellow sometimes I think it makes sense. However he is pretty steady between pink and red. Thinking that larger cat may need a bit more to see BG start going down. Also curious if, I should be looking at other conditions that we may not have caught. His complete blood work when he was diagnose only showed the diabetes, and at the same time the UTI. Everything else was good.

I have seen positive changes in his personality, so something is getting a bit better, just not much in his BG. Marvin also has very bad Neruropathy, when did you start seeing improvements, once regulated or sooner? I have ordered the Zobaline, hoping it passes customs Am seeing some improvement there I think with the human b12 I am giving him. He can walk once in a while and seems to be going further, a bit faster when he wants, and can sit and he for a short time.

would love to hear more about your journey with FD.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Yah for poop and yes, a poop icon like I have on IPhone would be good for this forum. Bubba is troubled with constipation too. I was giving Miralax for a long time but recently changed him to Natural Moves by Pet Alive. It is a natural supplement for dogs and cats and 1/4 of capsule a day seems to be doing it for him right now.

Bubba was up to 5.25 units until he started earning reductions. Look on his 2015 SS and scroll down to Dec. 1. That is when we switch to Lantus from ProZinc. Then switch to 2016 to see how he got all the way up to 5.25 until he started earning reductions and then he was OTJ for the first time end of July. This is his 3rd remission. And hopefully the last. Bad teeth and GI upset took him out the other two times. Keep in mind when you look at Bubba's SS that it might look a bit funny as he was a late nadir cat at that time which means his pre shot numbers are his nadir and then he would rise through the cycle only to go down again by the next shot test.

I am assuming that you work daily as his AM cycles don't have any mid cycle test.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

I see you're doing SLGS so the protocol calls for you to hold the dose for 7 days. With Rex, his PMPS was bad for the first few cycles on 3u before I started seeing the numbers go down. You don't want to rush it and miss out on a good dose. Be patient!

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

This is his 3rd remission. And hopefully the last. Bad teeth and GI upset took him out the other two times. Keep in mind when you look at Bubba's SS that it might look a bit funny as he was a late nadir cat at that time which means his pre shot numbers are his nadir and then he would rise through the cycle only to go down again by the next shot test. I am assuming that you work daily as his AM cycles don't have any mid cycle test.

Happy that Bubba is in remission, congrats and I also wish he stays in remission. Yes I work during the day, today I tried to stay focused to get some AM numbers in. I have a feeling his nadir maybe close to mid cycle. Hopefully will be able to tell soon. I have noticed a few times his numbers slightly go down overnight.

 

[Sharon14]

Colin's high dose is caused from a tumor on his pituitary, a condition called acromegaly. You don't need to worry about that at this point. For now I think you should follow the protocol of .25u increases. You're seeing improvements in his personality and neuropathy, so things are getting better, the numbers will follow. is he on all wet food now? How often do you feed? Sometimes timing the snacks can have an impact on the numbers.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

I see you're doing SLGS so the protocol calls for you to hold the dose for 7 days. With Rex, his PMPS was bad for the first few cycles on 3u before I started seeing the numbers go down. You don't want to rush it and miss out on a good dose. Be patient!

Your Rex is doing well. Congrats it must be relieving to see him in the green

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I have noticed a few times his numbers slightly go down overnight.

Good observation. A lot of kitties do go lower during the night time.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

Colin's high dose is caused from a tumor on his pituitary, a condition called acromegaly. You don't need to worry about that at this point. For now I think you should follow the protocol of .25u increases. You're seeing improvements in his personality and neuropathy, so things are getting better, the numbers will follow. is he on all wet food now? How often do you feed? Sometimes timing the snacks can have an impact on the numbers.

All wet food, he eats 2x a day. I feed him at the same time as his shots, was going to feed him one extra time per day in the evening as he wasn't eating much and he had lost more weight. since his dx, since he used to be only on dry and I had switch to wet and he was not eating enough for his size, vet wanted me to feed him more often, however he started eating more that day . He normally doesn't get treats, I bough the freezed dried chicken to try and associated good things when I do BG tests as he started acting up a bit since he has been feeling a bit better. At first he didn't like it, didn't even try the treat, last weekend he tried a piece and liked it, and today is the 2nd time he gets some. Last test I wasn't thinking and he had eaten a few treats prior to me taking his BG.

I know I can estimate the at .5 of a dose, but not so sure I can estimate .25. Trying to judge precisely if at the line or just below or above is best guess situation. I will keep trying. Thanks

 

[Sharon14]

I have trouble with the .25 too. A strong pair of reading glasses helps! Also the most important thing is consistency. You can pull up the dose 4.75, using colored water, then just match the insulin dose each time. Some people also use calipers. I think @Bobbie And Bubba did.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Maybe this will help you .

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

I don't have half units syringe, going to check if I can get some here or order some here. Gonna try and find my reading glasses, or get a pair from the pharmacy ... eyes started to change when I hit 40... women have enough to deal with around that time... d'oh

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I don't have half units syringe, going to check if I can get some here or order some here. Gonna try and find my reading glasses, or get a pair from the pharmacy ... eyes started to change when I hit 40... women have enough to deal with around that time... d'oh

I bought a higher strength reader glasses and used a magnifying glass. Oh, yes, I know about the eyes going south after 40. It was 44 for me.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

My Neko had two high dose conditions, acromegaly like Colin and IAA or insulin auto antibodies. Think of it like an allergy response to the injected insulin. Neko got up to 8.75 units. One in four diabetic cats has acromegaly, though not all need high doses. Two current kitties with acromegaly here, Bronx @Bronx's dad and Jack @saltycat have cats that are in the area of 30 units twice a day. Chino @Adrian and Chino is around 10 units, We have had some here that need even more. And also some that needed around 2-4 units. However, we suggest that people get tested for high dose conditions when their kitty gets up to six units, as we have seen some, like Bubba, that get over five, but not six before turning it around.

Other common causes of needing slightly higher doses is being on dry food, needing a dental, heart conditions, or Cushings, a less common high dose condition.

With Marvin just seeing red and pink, and being at five units, I think you can increase by 0.5 units. It would also be better for him if you could do TR to get those increases faster. Did you read the Sticky Note on doing TR with a full time job? Many people here have done that. An autofeeder is essential to keeping him safe. Multiple smaller meals is also better and the autofeeder can help with that too.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

The vet had mentioned in March that he had a slight heart murmur and we do need to look at his teeth. He got some tar a bleeding gums and a cyst on one side of the mouth (not infected). Vet wanted to regulate him first before taking care of his teeth.

I haven't read how to do TR with a full time job. I will look it up. and see if it is doable for me. I do hope he starts responding soon. thank you Wendy for the information.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Heart murmurs can be benign, a condition of older kitties. Or a sign of something else. Acromegaly is caused by a benign tumour on the pituitary, causing excess growth hormone to be produced. That causes the diabetes. Often, but not always you see larger cats. The growth hormone can also impact organs, including the heart, leading to hypertrophic cardiomyopathy.

Regulating a kitty before a dental can be a challenge. It can be the bad teeth that make regulation more difficult. We have seen numerous cats become better regulated after dentals.

 

[Caren and Creamsickle]

I don't have half units syringe, going to check if I can get some here or order some here. Gonna try and find my reading glasses, or get a pair from the pharmacy ... eyes started to change when I hit 40... women have enough to deal with around that time... d'oh

same problem here. Changing to the 1/2 unit syringes really helped. It was too hard for me to see on the other needles. I think the doses are a bit more accurate now too.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

I just checked the pharmacy at Walmart here for the syringes with the 1/2 units marked. WOW they are expensive. Going to see if I can find a better deal online. Over $1.00 per day. $6.00 pack of 10. Well at least I know they have them there.

 

[saltycat]

I would not have expected those prices for syringes, I think here in the US I paid around $15 for 100 from Walmart. Where they the relion brand(Walmarts in house brand)?

Jack is one of the high dose kitties that Wendy mentioned. There are a few other high dosers as well on the boards. It just varies by cat and severity of the disease how much insulin they will need. You can see on his SS that we started on pro-zinc and hit 5u pretty quickly like you have. The TR protocol is good for increasing the dose faster then SLGS. I think it would be good to increase the speed of the increases until you start seeing some improvement in numbers, then slow back down on the increases. You don't want to skip over a good dose by increasing too fast. If he keeps going up the scale, it would be good to get an Acromegaly and IAA(Insulin Auto-immune Antibodes) test from MSU. This helps let you know what you are dealing with. Not there yet, but as Marvin gets closer to 10u, it becomes more likely that his numbers might be affected by one of the mentioned conditions.

Have you looked into any arthritis supplements? Jack had very tender back legs as well, zobaline helped some, but I really noticed a big difference when I added in Cosequin to the mix.

I don't think adwdiabetes.com ships to Canada, but they might know of a similar company up there that sells in Canada. Maybe a fellow Canadian bean can let you know where some good priced syringes can be found.

 

[Marvin's Mom - Nat]

I would not have expected those prices for syringes, I think here in the US I paid around $15 for 100 from Walmart. Where they the relion brand(Walmarts in house brand)?
Hi thank you for the information.

Have you looked into any arthritis supplements? Jack had very tender back legs as well, zobaline helped some, but I really noticed a big difference when I added in Cosequin to the mix.

I don't think adwdiabetes.com ships to Canada, but they might know of a similar company up there that sells in Canada. Maybe a fellow Canadian bean can let you know where some good priced syringes can be found.

We don't have exactly the same products at Walmart here in Canada, as I think it has to have certain percentage of Canadian products. So I don't think we have all their in-house brands. They only had one brand which is the one that all the pharmacies here have I think.

Before Marvin was diagnosed, think the day before I had bought an arthritis supplement for him as that was what I though was wrong with him. However never got a chance to give it to him as he went downhill so fast I was at the vet the next day and that when I learned about neuropathy. I could try what I purchased. The product is Canadian, Ingredients : Hydrolysed Collagen I-II-III, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulphate, Methylsulfonylmethane, Devil’s Claw, Turmeric, Beef natural flavour, Citric acid. The only item I am not sure would be the Citric acid.

He wasn't showing much signs of being in pain, until this weekend. I noticed he did like being touched on his back end, he actually growled at me... so if that helps would be good.