Take Smudges off insulin?

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Jenni

Jenni

Member Since 2015
Hello,

I am wondering how to proceed with Smudges' insulin dosage. After a short spike a couple of weeks ago, I finally took him in for oral surgery. He had gum disease and three 3 were removed. Since then his numbers have been quite a bit lower. I'm sure it's a combination of his mouth feeling better and strictly eating wet food until his mouth is completely healed. He has plenty of energy and is back to his old self!

I've had to skip a couple of shots because his numbers are so low and I don't want insulin to take him too low especially if I'm at work or away from home. Do I keep him at .25 or stop the insulin and see how that goes?

Thank you,
Jenni

Not sure why the ss is not showing up in my signature anymore. Hopefully the link below works.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WavmJDiU4YEeRfAkLUU1qDQ_7ezj1FCo4kET4h4oZhQ/edit?usp=sharing
 
I would start the OTJ trial depending on what his numbers look like at PMPS. That would be 24 hours without insulin.
I think there's a yellow sticky post that goes over the OTJ trial and testing.

No shot for 14 days and he's considered in remission.

Edited to add: I agree with Squeaky and KT too. The sticky on OTJ trial was shared by Wendy & Neko :)
 
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Jenni, re: OTJ - you want to have as strong of a remission as possible. You can halve that .25u dose before trying OTJ trial. As small as it seems, half of .25u still has action. You don't want to take him completely off it yet....his body may still need the bit of extra support. If his pancreas isn't well rested, just trying to handle the full responsibility of the body's actions may damage all the work you've done so far - let's not let that happen! To get to that half, draw your .25 then squeeze out 2 SMALL drops. It will feel like you're not giving anything but you ARE.

Does that sound like an approach you can handle right now?
 
Hi, Jenni.

I also agree with Lyresa. It's better if you can continue to reduce from the .25 - the longer you give a recovering pancreas some support, the better. Here is a sticky on drawing up micro doses. We would hate to see you start a trial before Smudges is ready - although he's looking like he's pretty darned close!
 
01unit-1.jpg
Here is a pic of the 0.1 dose
 
Thank you for all of the responses. This board has been a lifesaver for me and my kitty. I'm so excited that his numbers have come down so much since he was diagnosed two years ago. I skipped his shot last night and also this morning. I just took his pmps and it was 82. Hip hip hooray!

I'm a little concerned about giving less than .25 units. It has been difficult trying to get such a low amount already with the syringes. With his numbers so low right now I don't want to send him into hypo overnight or when I am gone at work during the day. I'm excited but very nervous. He has gone into hypo once before at the beginning and I do not want him to experience that again.
 
Jenni said:
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I'm a little concerned about giving less than .25 units. It has been difficult trying to get such a low amount already with the syringes. With his numbers so low right now I don't want to send him into hypo overnight or when I am gone at work during the day. I'm excited but very nervous. He has gone into hypo once before at the beginning and I do not want him to experience that again.
Click to expand...

Jenni,
First - Lantus - you have a depot of insulin that's still working. Skipping those shots and still having good numbers doesn't mean he's doing it alone. That takes days just like a dose change especially from a whole .25 unit.

If his body still needs insulin and you stop it, the food cannot be converted into usable energy. He'll possibly start burning fat stores causing ketones....the picture after that turns ugly. Remember - it's a hormone, not a chemical medicine.

You can do that dosing - we both know you can...you're so close - let's not risk screwing it up now.

HUGS!
 
Jenni said:
With his numbers so low right now I don't want to send him into hypo overnight or when I am gone at work during the day.
Click to expand...
Once kitties get into all green numbers, the cycles are rather flat. I think you'll be more than fine on 0.1 dose so that you can give his pancreas all the support it needs before you take away the insulin. Look at Bubba's SS of how I weaned him off the juice slowly ( because this was his 2nd lost remission) but look how flat his cycles were. Start at the beginning of this year.


Jenni said:
I'm a little concerned about giving less than .25 units. It has been difficult trying to get such a low amount already with the syringes.
Click to expand...
Loading the syringe for 0.1 is pretty much the same as the .25 dose. It will look like you have nothing in the syringe but, there is. Experiment with drawing up some water into a syringe to the 0.1 measure and express it out. You'll see . When you give the injection, hold the plunger in while removing the needle from Smudges. I found that if I didn't do it that way, that not all of the small amount of insulin would come out of the syringe and it's such a small amount to begin with so you want to make sure that it all gets into Smudges.
 
The smallest unit of measure labeled on the syringes is .5 so it is very difficult to see what is actually in there when I go below that. His amps today was 63. I gave him less than .5 today but there is no way to measure accurately below .5. I am not comfortable giving him an unknown amount or any amount really when his number is that low. He also threw up this morning after eating the wet food so I started him back on the Evo kibble which has a bit more carbs than the wet. We were doing a combination of the wet and dry prior to his surgery--he loves his kibble! The vet recommended trying Glycobalance, a prescription food. She claims that some cats go into remission using that cat food alone, without insulin. Does anybody have any advice/info about that? How long do I continue doing .1 unit before I stop altogether?
 
Squeaky and KT (GA) said:
Jenni, re: OTJ - you want to have as strong of a remission as possible. You can halve that .25u dose before trying OTJ trial. As small as it seems, half of .25u still has action. You don't want to take him completely off it yet....his body may still need the bit of extra support. If his pancreas isn't well rested, just trying to handle the full responsibility of the body's actions may damage all the work you've done so far - let's not let that happen! To get to that half, draw your .25 then squeeze out 2 SMALL drops. It will feel like you're not giving anything but you ARE.

Does that sound like an approach you can handle right now?
Click to expand...
I'll give it a try! Started first one this a.m.
 
There's nothing in the prescription foods that make them a "prescription" and the dry ones are too high in carbs. I can't remember how many carbs are in the wet "prescription" food but I can look it up and share it.
 
StephG said:
The royal canin glycobalance is listed as 14% carbs on the new list.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/
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We consider this a medium carb - useful when kitty is running a little low (around 80-100) early or might go low and you can't monitor. Also good when kitty isn't quite ready for a trial and you want to head off an earned reduction to be able to keep giving insulin a bit longer.

I'm glad you're trying the micro dosing, Jenni. Smudges will tell you if he really wants off the juice NOW.
 
Jenni said:
The smallest unit of measure labeled on the syringes is .5 so it is very difficult to see what is actually in there when I go below that. His amps today was 63. I gave him less than .5 today but there is no way to measure accurately below .5. I am not comfortable giving him an unknown amount or any amount really when his number is that low. He also threw up this morning after eating the wet food so I started him back on the Evo kibble which has a bit more carbs than the wet. We were doing a combination of the wet and dry prior to his surgery--he loves his kibble! The vet recommended trying Glycobalance, a prescription food. She claims that some cats go into remission using that cat food alone, without insulin. Does anybody have any advice/info about that? How long do I continue doing .1 unit before I stop altogether?
Click to expand...
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Jenni, for the dose 0.1 you are going to go by the "zero line or 0.0" on the syringe. It's the very first line on the syringe right below the hub of the syringe. You will draw a bit of insulin and your plunger will be almost equal to the zero line. Practice with water and expel it onto a paper towel and you will see there was some insulin in the syringe.

As far as how long to be on this micro dose, if Smudges has all green numbers for a solid week on this dose, the next step in a trail off the juice. You are so close.........
 
So in my opinion it's looking like I could try him oh TJ. Anybody have any concerns or advice? After I take him off how often should I be checking his blood?

What should I be looking for that would indicate that he needs to go back on the juice? Is there a magic number I should be watching for?
 

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Hi Jenni,

Is there any way you can get some mid-cycle tests, or maybe do a curve one day? I'm just curious to see if he's dropping low somewhere in there.

My only concern about doing a trial is that he's still getting some blue PS numbers. Would it be possible to give him a small snack at +9? If you work all day, an autofeeder would help. Often when a cat is on a very small dose, a snack at +9 will bring the PS numbers down.

Experience shows that the longer you can keep a cat on insulin, the stronger the remission. Do you think you could try doing one drop? Essentially, you push the plunger in before you put the needle into the pen or vial, then let go. This sucks in just a teeny, tiny bit of insulin.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
Hi Jenni,

Is there any way you can get some mid-cycle tests, or maybe do a curve one day? I'm just curious to see if he's dropping low somewhere in there.

My only concern about doing a trial is that he's still getting some blue PS numbers. Would it be possible to give him a small snack at +9? If you work all day, an autofeeder would help. Often when a cat is on a very small dose, a snack at +9 will bring the PS numbers down.

Experience shows that the longer you can keep a cat on insulin, the stronger the remission. Do you think you could try doing one drop? Essentially, you push the plunger in before you put the needle into the pen or vial, then let go. This sucks in just a teeny, tiny bit of insulin.
Click to expand...
Good suggestions. I will keep going with the .1 dose and keep my fingers crossed.
 
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