Weight loss in regulated cat

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Yong said:
Ah ok! Thanks for clarifying. I thought kitty was Ginger but then I saw Jebat in signature :). That's good if he's still standing and walking well! Means you've probably caught his diabetes earlier in the diagnosis. He could still have some mild symptoms of neuroapthy and some muscle loss in his hind legs, just keep an eye on his muscle mass. I noticed Maury's muscle mass had decreased but it's starting to come back :cat:. Are all the foods you are feeding lower carb? Less than 10%. He could be one of the more carb sensitive kitties. Once you consistently get AMPS and PMPS readings and any extra tests, he will probably need a dose increase. I can tag @JanetNJ since she is one of our experienced Vetuslin members :).
The sugar dance with our kitty's can be frustrating / depressing at times because we want them to feel better. But you have taken all the right steps to help him :bighug:
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Yes I've checked that fancy feast classic n wellness r less than 10%. N u Hv helped me confirm that burp is less than 10% too.

Thks for tagging ur vetsulin expert. I thk u guys probably can help me better than my vets.
I suspect the current dose is not enuf but I'll get few more readings to b sure. N then I'll consult the vet to hear her views.
 
I haven't discussed Maury's diabetes care with any Vet for over 2 1/2 months because the members I've met here, know so much more. The progress I've made with him is a result of the support and advice from this forum :)
 
Waheeda said:
Yes I've checked that fancy feast classic n wellness r less than 10%. N u Hv helped me confirm that burp is less than 10% too.

Thks for tagging ur vetsulin expert. I thk u guys probably can help me better than my vets.
I suspect the current dose is not enuf but I'll get few more readings to b sure. N then I'll consult the vet to hear her views.
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So I know you said you thought your kitty was regulated, but I'm not seeing that in looking at his numbers. He is consistently in the 300's, so it's not surprising he's having trouble with neuropathy. A cat is considered to be regulated when they are around 300 preshot and around 100 at nadir (the lowest point in the cycle, which for vetsulin is about 4-6 hours after the shot). Try as often as you can to get a test in before the shot (test, then feed, then shoot) and then around 5 hours after the shot. When you are home for a day do a curve by testing every 2 hours for 12 hours so we can get a better picture of what's happening. From the numbers so far it does appear that an increase is needed. I would go to 2.5 and see what happens, but as I said, keep gathering data.
 
JanetNJ said:
So I know you said you thought your kitty was regulated, but I'm not seeing that in looking at his numbers. He is consistently in the 300's, so it's not surprising he's having trouble with neuropathy. A cat is considered to be regulated when they are around 300 preshot and around 100 at nadir (the lowest point in the cycle, which for vetsulin is about 4-6 hours after the shot). Try as often as you can to get a test in before the shot (test, then feed, then shoot) and then around 5 hours after the shot. When you are home for a day do a curve by testing every 2 hours for 12 hours so we can get a better picture of what's happening. From the numbers so far it does appear that an increase is needed. I would go to 2.5 and see what happens, but as I said, keep gathering data.
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I know right! That was so puzzling. His fructosamine test done last week showed a good control and the vet was very pleased. A month ago, we increased the dosage by 0.4 unit in the morning and his fructosamine test reading shot out to 400+. And he was walking really funny. So it was brought down back to 2 and fructosamine test came down to 300+, within d very gd range.

So I'm so so puzzled.
 
Waheeda said:
His fructosamine test done last week showed a good control
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Fructosamine tests only show an average of the glucose over a period of about 2 weeks. If the numbers were low AND high each day, the fructosamine would only show an average which would come up as a good range. It is the every day home testing that gives the big picture and is much more accurate than the fructosamine test. Testing before each shot and ideally at least once in between shots gives a "real-time" picture on how the insulin and dose are working.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Fructosamine tests only show an average of the glucose over a period of about 2 weeks. If the numbers were low AND high each day, the fructosamine would only show an average which would come up as a good range. It is the every day home testing that gives the big picture and is much more accurate than the fructosamine test. Testing before each shot and ideally at least once in between shots gives a "real-time" picture on how the insulin and dose are working.
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Yup I understand how fructosamine test works. But based on d data I've gathered so far, there doesn't seem to have a low point! D readings are all hovering around 300+ even 4-6 hours after jab. Cld this b a somogyi effect? Wen we increased dosage the last time n his fructosamine test shot up, d vet thot it's cos of this somogyi effect.
 
Yong said:
I haven't discussed Maury's diabetes care with any Vet for over 2 1/2 months because the members I've met here, know so much more. The progress I've made with him is a result of the support and advice from this forum :)
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. Save u money and frustration of talking to the vet. The vets at d clinic I go to are so young and I feel inexperienced with diabetes.
 
I increased one of the dosage to 2.4 u and I seem to b getting better readings. At +6 today, it was 190+. First time it went below 200. I'm so tempted to chge both daily dose to 2.4 u. My vet thinks I shld wait till a week. Any thoughts from anyone?
 
Waheeda said:
I increased one of the dosage to 2.4 u and I seem to b getting better readings. At +6 today, it was 190+. First time it went below 200. I'm so tempted to chge both daily dose to 2.4 u. My vet thinks I shld wait till a week. Any thoughts from anyone?
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Would you mind updating your spreadsheet when you have a minute? It helps us if we have all the doses, etc. to look at. That blue number is nice but testing every day before insulin and at least one other time daytime or evening before bed will allow you to have enough data to make good dosing decisions.. Right now there's a lot of guessing involved.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Would you mind updating your spreadsheet when you have a minute? It helps us if we have all the doses, etc. to look at. That blue number is nice but testing every day before insulin and at least one other time daytime or evening before bed will allow you to have enough data to make good dosing decisions.. Right now there's a lot of guessing involved.
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The spreadsheet is updated. I only took 1 or 2 readings a day cos I felt so sorry for my cat. I guess that's not gd enuf? Can I just do before evening shot n b4 bed? Morning is a bit tough cos it's at 6am n hard to have d 2 hr of no feeding.
 
Don't worry too much about the two hours of no feeding. If you can manage it, you'll get clearer numbers, but don't let that stop you from getting a before shot test. You really really need to get the tests before shots. Otherwise, no one can tell if the dose is working, too high, or too low. It's that comparison between the pre-shot number and the nadir that really helps you see how the dose is going.

Just keep reminding yourself that you're doing this because you love Jebat and want to keep him safe. It's dangerous to give him insulin without checking to make sure his number is safe, and to make sure that he's getting to a dose that will help him heal.
 
Djamila gave some great information. I'm just here to emphasize that minimum testing is AMPS and PMPS :), so twice a day. Any extra tests are helpful at seeing how the dose is working. Ginger gave you his first blue too :cat:
 
Thanks Djamila, Yong and Kris & Teasel! Was so happy to see the blue. Poked him 5 times cos cldnt get enuf sample n poor boy was very angry.
 
Yong said:
Did we already tell you about warming the ear? Sorry, not so great memory here :D
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Ya I read that. But I'm in the tropics and it's pretty hot here. Usually we just poke n blood will flow out. I thk we were overly cautious last night.
 
Waheeda said:
He's eating as per normal. I make sure he has a can every 2-2 1/2 hr. and he's happily eating. I'm praying hard he'll gain some weight soon. Will get second opinion from another Vet.
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This sounds like a good idea. 2nd opinion. My baby did the same thing before FD and it was IBD. She lost 8 pounds in 2 years. These poor babies. I hope your kitty will gain back. Last vet visit she had gained 9 ounces! We will take that. We feed her the same as you. Every 2 to 3 hours.
 
Phoebes said:
This sounds like a good idea. 2nd opinion. My baby did the same thing before FD and it was IBD. She lost 8 pounds in 2 years. These poor babies. I hope your kitty will gain back. Last vet visit she had gained 9 ounces! We will take that. We feed her the same as you. Every 2 to 3 hours.
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Dats gd to know someone else is feeding this much! My baby was only 4.9kg after FD. Before that he's easily 5.5kg. Then I was away for 10 days n it dropped to 4.4kg. I've been crazily feeding him n after 2 wks he's up to 4.7kg. I'm still hoping he'll go to 5kg at least.
 
Omg! Lucky I listened to u guys n Chk his BG this am. It was only 115! So I skipped the insulin. Had I not checked, he wld be hypoglycaemic! N we wld Hv not known cos we wld b out. Thks so so much. How cld it drop this much ya? It was 205 at +6. I will check again in an hour's time.
 
Waheeda said:
Omg! Lucky I listened to u guys n Chk his BG this am. It was only 115! So I skipped the insulin. Had I not checked, he wld be hypoglycaemic! N we wld Hv not known cos we wld b out. Thks so so much. How cld it drop this much ya? It was 205 at +6. I will check again in an hour's time.
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I see on your SS that you increased the dose last night to 2.4 u. Was there a reason for that? You gave 2 u in the morning and then increased. We recommend increases of 0.25 u at a time. How are you measuring 2.4 u? Are you using U40 or U100 syringes? Sorry for all the questions. I think the reason for that low this AM was in 0.4 u increase last night.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I see on your SS that you increased the dose last night to 2.4 u. Was there a reason for that? You gave 2 u in the morning and then increased. We recommend increases of 0.25 u at a time. How are you measuring 2.4 u? Are you using U40 or U100 syringes? Sorry for all the questions. I think the reason for that low this AM was in 0.4 u increase last night.
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I have increased it since 3 days ago as the dosage of 2 has been giving consistent readings of above 300. I asked the vet n she agreed to try for that increase once a day. I'm using a u-100 syringe so after conversion it's 2u for 5 lines n 2.4 for 6 lines. I Hv been getting better results after the increase but I din expect it to suddenly drop this much. Is it safe for me to leave him at home by himself? Will it drop further n needs a visit to d vet?
 
Waheeda said:
I have increased it since 3 days ago as the dosage of 2 has been giving consistent readings of above 300. I asked the vet n she agreed to try for that increase once a day. I'm using a u-100 syringe so after conversion it's 2u for 5 lines n 2.4 for 6 lines. I Hv been getting better results after the increase but I din expect it to suddenly drop this much. Is it safe for me to leave him at home by himself? Will it drop further n needs a visit to d vet?
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OK. I understand. Here's the way to keep Jebat safe:
  • test BG every day before AM and PM meal and injection (no food at least 2 hours before these so food isn't affecting BG) to see if dose is too high for BG level
  • test at least once near the middle of the cycle or before bed daily to see how low the dose is taking him
  • keep you spreadsheet up to date and ask for help when you're not sure what to do.
That low number this morning suggests that 2.4 u is probably too high. I'd try 2.2 u tonight and test at +2 and +3 to see what he's doing.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
OK. I understand. Here's the way to keep Jebat safe:
  • test BG every day before AM and PM meal and injection (no food at least 2 hours before these so food isn't affecting BG) to see if dose is too high for BG level
  • test at least once near the middle of the cycle or before bed daily to see how low the dose is taking him
  • keep you spreadsheet up to date and ask for help when you're not sure what to do.
That low number this morning suggests that 2.4 u is probably too high. I'd try 2.2 u tonight and test at +2 and +3 to see what he's doing.
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To get 2.2u is pretty tricky as that wld b between 2 lines but I'll try. Since I din jab him this am, my understanding is that his BG won't drop anymore? I Hv to go out to work soon. Will he be alright?
 
Waheeda said:
To get 2.2u is pretty tricky as that wld b between 2 lines but I'll try. Since I din jab him this am, my understanding is that his BG won't drop anymore? I Hv to go out to work soon. Will he be alright?
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How long ago did he get his ****? And what is his BG right now?
 
Hey Waheeda, I'm a little confused. You said Jebat was 205 at +6, but then I see the 114 in AMPS for tomorrow, was that actually the +7? I know you're on your phone and maybe just hit wrong area. :) Are you only working a few hours since next shot is due in about 5 hours? If this is the case, he should be ok while you're at work. You can leave some wet food out for him to snack on though while you are away :cat:
 
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Yong said:
Hey Jebat, I'm a little confused. You said Ginger was 205 at +6, but then I see the 114 in AMPS for tomorrow, was that actually the +7? I know you're on your phone and maybe just hit wrong area. :) Are you only working a few hours since next shot is due in about 5 hours? If this is the case, he should be ok while you're at work. You can leave some wet food out for him to snack on though while you are away :cat:
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I'm in Singapore and it's 23rd April now. Oh u know wat, I tested him an hour later n it was 400! So I gave him 2u of insulin. How could it go from 114 to 400 in an hour? Happened to anyone b4? I'll test him in an hour's time again just to be sure b4 I go for work.
 
If you get a big difference like that, do another test right away. Possibly bad test strip / false reading. Ok so the 114 was his AMPS? then 1 hour later 400 so you gave 2.0U? Make sure to make a note for yourself that his morning shot was an hour late.
 
Waheeda said:
His low 114 was before morning shot but tested him an hour later n it was 400! Mind boggling I tell u. It was scary. So I gave him 2u.
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Cats are mind boggling little creatures. Definitely test him before you leave. I'd be more worried if his numbers were crazy low. Try not to worry. I know it's hard. I worry 24/7.
 
Yong said:
If you get a big difference like that, do another test right away. Possibly bad test strip / false reading. Ok so the 114 was his AMPS? then 1 hour later 400 so you gave 2.0U? Make sure to make a note for yourself that his morning shot was an hour late.
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Yes. Didn't even think of that. The 114 or the 400 may have been wrong. Definitely test twice with such a jump.
 
Yong said:
If you get a big difference like that, do another test right away. Possibly bad test strip / false reading. Ok so the 114 was his AMPS? then 1 hour later 400 so you gave 2.0U? Make sure to make a note for yourself that his morning shot was an hour late.
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Ya I shld Hv retested when I saw such low reading. Silly me! Then I got a high reading n I was shocked that I retested n it went up slightly. So I gave him his insulin. Guess the 114 was an error!
 
GinnyBarr said:
Cats are mind boggling little creatures. Definitely test him before you leave. I'd be more worried if his numbers were crazy low. Try not to worry. I know it's hard. I worry 24/7.
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I've been worrying 24/7 too! He's a fussy eater so have to keep track if he likes the food, then check his weight daily n now his BG. I'll go crazy soon.
 
I hope the 114 was the error, otherwise might have said you should tell work you can't make it and stay with Jebat :bighug:. We all go crazy together ;)
 
GinnyBarr said:
Yes. Didn't even think of that. The 114 or the 400 may have been wrong. Definitely test twice with such a jump.
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Yong said:
I hope the 114 was the error, otherwise might have said you should tell work you can't make it and stay with Jebat :bighug:. We all go crazy together ;)
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my boss won't understand my worry! I've arranged for a Fren to come by later. But I'll take another reading b4 I go. He was so stressed just now that he peed on the sofa! Can't even b angry with him. Sigh!
 
Aww that does indicate he is probably the higher number :bighug:. How many hours after shot will your friend be stopping by? Also, have you purchased any ketone test strips?
 
Yong said:
Aww that does indicate he is probably the higher number :bighug:. How many hours after shot will your friend be stopping by? Also, have you purchased any ketone test strips?
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There r ketone strips? My Fren will come abt 2 hrs after I leave. We did d ketone test in Feb n he was cleared. It din occur to me the meter or strip cld b faulty! I got excited over nothing.
 
Waheeda said:
There r ketone strips? My Fren will come abt 2 hrs after I leave. We did d ketone test in Feb n he was cleared. It din occur to me the meter or strip cld b faulty! I got excited over nothing.
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No. We all get excited when we see those numbers. It's completely understandable. He will get to 114.
 
Did he eat all of his meal? That is a significant drop in one hour. Is your friend able to stay with Jebat for a while? Vetsulin can hit hard and fast. Let me see if I can get another member to chime in. Waheeda, you really need to get AMPS and PMPS tests every day, at minimum :cat:
Yes there are ketone strips. Good to test weekly :)

@JanetNJ if you see this. Quick summary: Jebat AMPS was 114 (Thinking possible wonky test strip). An hour later got reading of 400 and HI, so she gave 2.0U. Been 1 hour since insulin and he is at 306.
 
Waheeda said:
I think we are all going crazy! Ok I tested him a minute ago n he's 306. Dropped from 400 to 306 in an hour. Is this normal? Should I worry?
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Idk that insulin, but my cat has dropped that fast on Lantus. Which is actually supposed to be slow acting. She was fine every time. I now know, that's just how she responds. With more data, you'll be more confident with his numbers. Definitely leave food out. Keep us updated. I wouldn't worry. Especially with your friend coming by.
 
Waheeda said:
I think we are all going crazy! Ok I tested him a minute ago n he's 306. Dropped from 400 to 306 in an hour. Is this normal? Should I worry?
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Yong said:
Did he eat all of his meal? That is a significant drop in one hour. Is your friend able to stay with Jebat for a while? Vetsulin can hit hard and fast. Let me see if I can get another member to chime in. Waheeda, you really need to get AMPS and PMPS tests every day, at minimum :cat:
Yes there are ketone strips. Good to test weekly :)

@JanetNJ if you see this. Quick summary: Jebat AMPS was 114 (Thinking possible wonky test strip). An hour later got reading of 400 and HI, so she gave 2.0U. Been 1 hour since insulin and he is at 306.
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With a variance of 20%,its entirety possible the 400 was closer to 350 . I won't worry too much.
 
Came back and he's ok. Thanks everyone for all your advice. That was quite a scare. I shall delete the 114 from my SS as it was an error.
 
Waheeda said:
Oh good to know. Thks! I'm so worried.
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If the 400 is closer to 350, then the 308 closer to 250?
I Hv done +3, +6, +9 n pmps wen I first started monitoring. U can see in my SS. But I Hv increased the dosage for d evening shot 4 days ago so I guess the curve wld b different now. Do I test after morning shot or evening cos both dosages r different.
 
Yong said:
Did he eat all of his meal? That is a significant drop in one hour. Is your friend able to stay with Jebat for a while? Vetsulin can hit hard and fast. Let me see if I can get another member to chime in. Waheeda, you really need to get AMPS and PMPS tests every day, at minimum :cat:
Yes there are ketone strips. Good to test weekly :)

@JanetNJ if you see this. Quick summary: Jebat AMPS was 114 (Thinking possible wonky test strip). An hour later got reading of 400 and HI, so she gave 2.0U. Been 1 hour since insulin and he is at 306.
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Thks so much! Ok I'll ask my vet where to get the ketone strips.
 
Waheeda said:
If the 400 is closer to 350, then the 308 closer to 250?
I Hv done +3, +6, +9 n pmps wen I first started monitoring. U can see in my SS. But I Hv increased the dosage for d evening shot 4 days ago so I guess the curve wld b different now. Do I test after morning shot or evening cos both dosages r different.
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With meters there is up to 20% variance. This means a number COULD be 20% off. So a reading of 100 could actually be anywhere from 80-120.
 
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