I might need some help, certainly some advice

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Sieden

Sieden

Member Since 2016
Sorry for the long read... I'll keep it short from here on out - I promise

For starters, don't rely on my sheet link for Peanut's numbers, I got lazy and stopped putting them in there a long time ago because I have another method that I use to keep track of it. For this purpose though, I can go back and insert the information for the last few weeks as soon as I get a chance. I wanted to post this as soon as possible just to get it out there but as soon as I hit "create thread", I have to take off and go Wal-Mart for a midnight run. That might sound shitty but I'm getting ready to move out on April 30th and I'm in panic mode because not only do I have a ton of sh!t to do at my place but a ton of sh!t to do at the new house and I'm basically doing it all alone. I want to scream and pull my hair out and now suddenly I'm afraid that Peanut is heading downhill. So now that I have all of my craziness out of the way, let me explain what has been going on.

Peanut was doing really good, not perfect but good enough that if I forgot a dose then I did panic. I do have depression and sometimes I just couldn't pull myself out of bed, I cry about it now thinking that maybe my inconsistency is what has caused him to get back into the high numbers but I am trying not to blame myself because as someone with depression, I know that I shouldn't do that no matter what, even if it is my fault.

For the last few weeks nothing that I try has brought Peanut's number down below 145. I feed Friskies Turkey & Giblets Dinner Classic Paté (1/4 can) mixed with Primal Raw - Chicken and Salmon Frozen Formula (4 nuggets) and all of that gets shared between 2 cats. The can has somewhere between 8 and 10 carbs but they are only eating about 1/8 of a can and the Raw food has only 2.5 carbs. Here is a link to the raw food
Primal Chicken and Salmon
Anyway, I think that diet is most certainly not the issue, I don't give treats or anything. Here recently in the last few days I have noticed Peanut drinking water like crazy as well.

Also I have 2 cats and they each have their own litter box. As crazy as it sounds they just chose to not use each other's boxes. The boxes are totally different shapes and sizes as well and I think that is why, and once they claimed "their" box that was it, they didn't switch but here lately Peanut is doing his business in Ginger's box. They are both male cats and both neutered. For Peanut to go into Ginger's box is even more difficult for him, it's a black, 50 gallon Sterilite storage container with a lid on it that I cut a whole out of on the the top. So it's like a GIANT top entry litter box. Peanut wouldn't go in it before because it was harder for him to jump back out of but now suddenly he's all about it, I don't understand. His urine is VERY concentrated and stinks too. He always pees in the corners which Ginger never does and now it's so hard to clean. BUT, I have placed 3 square containers in the corners that have packing peanuts in them. I'm hoping that he'll pee on that and I can test for Ketones. I tried to test earlier this morning from some of the wet litter but that was difficult because I use walnut litter. I just soaked the strip and wiped off the litter, I didn't see any color change at all.

As far as his insulin goes, I've been messing around with the dose to see if maybe I'm giving too much and I'm seeing a bouncing effect but I can't even get a read on that either. I'll catch up his sheet for the past few weeks and keep it current and maybe together we can figure this out because I am at a loss for what is going on. I do plan to take him to the vet, don't get me wrong but I think that this forum... with everyone here, all of the combined experience and whatnot sometimes knows a lot more than the vet does and that certainly proves to be true when it comes to my last vet (he almost killed Peanut). He'll be going to a new Dr. this time so that's why I want to also work closely here as well.

If you stuck it out, thanks for reading this far :)

Looking forward to a pleasant journey
Erika "Sieden"
 
Maybe you should have Peanut checked for a urinary tract infection. His urine should not be concentrated or smell that bad. An infection could make his BG stay up too.
 
Okay, thank you for letting me know that. I'm going to try to get him into the vet sometime next week. I need to call this new place and see what their availability is.
 
Oh I also went back and updated his chart to reflect the numbers from 3/14/2017 up till now. Please let me know if you have trouble seeing it.

Well I just realized that I'm off by an entire day lol. I have no idea where it went, I'll have to go try to figure that out.

Figured it out, in my original spreadsheet that I usually use, I posted 3/8/2017 twice which made me miss a day but I'm current. I'm going to slowly go back and catch it up so that it reflects the current date.
 
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You're doing the right thing for Peanut by coming back, so welcome! :) You've been through the wringer with a lot of stressful stuff but we can help you get back on track. It does seem that Peanut has a UTI from your description of his urine and that can certainly affect BG. If you can get him seen by a new vet sooner than later that would be great. It might be worth asking a few questions about their experience with FD cats before you book so you don't run into another problem like you had with your last vet.
 
Thank you for your reply, that was an excellent idea. I didn't even think to ask about their experience with FD and I should know how important that question is. I even took Peanut to another vet a few years ago just to get his rabies shot. This was at a time when I had Peanut well controlled and maintained below 100 consistently. I mentioned to the doctor that Peanut is a diabetic and we chatted about it briefly. I was telling him about how I tailor his insulin daily depending on his daily BG reading instead of keeping him on a steady dose. Even that Dr. told me that I should never give him insulin if his BG is 150 or less because that is what is considered normal FOR A DIABETIC cat. He said anywhere between 120 to 300 is normal, what a tool. Sometimes they just can't understand that not every cat remains a diabetic forever. But I digress... for now lol.
 
Sieden said:
Thank you for your reply, that was an excellent idea. I didn't even think to ask about their experience with FD and I should know how important that question is. I even took Peanut to another vet a few years ago just to get his rabies shot. This was at a time when I had Peanut well controlled and maintained below 100 consistently. I mentioned to the doctor that Peanut is a diabetic and we chatted about it briefly. I was telling him about how I tailor his insulin daily depending on his daily BG reading instead of keeping him on a steady dose. Even that Dr. told me that I should never give him insulin if his BG is 150 or less because that is what is considered normal FOR A DIABETIC cat. He said anywhere between 120 to 300 is normal, what a tool. Sometimes they just can't understand that not every cat remains a diabetic forever. But I digress... for now lol.
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I think what's most important in a vet when you have an FD kitty is a willingness to work collaboratively with the owner when that owner is willing to be hands on in the treatment. Vets are not accustomed to that so I think they default to keeping it too simple - and possibly dangerous. They might not rec0mmend the amount of testing we do, dose changing, etc. A vet that can see you know what you're doing and is willing to be more of a "background" resource is ideal. It's almost impossible to find one that knows as much as we do about testing/dosing as we do here on FDMB.
 
Since you mentioned that I was wondering what kind of specific questions I might ask. I'm going to start a new thread so that more people will see it and maybe I can get lots of answers but feel free to answer here too
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think what's most important in a vet when you have an FD kitty is a willingness to work collaboratively with the owner when that owner is willing to be hands on in the treatment. Vets are not accustomed to that so I think they default to keeping it too simple - and possibly dangerous. They might not rec0mmend the amount of testing we do, dose changing, etc. A vet that can see you know what you're doing and is willing to be more of a "background" resource is ideal. It's almost impossible to find one that knows as much as we do about testing/dosing as we do here on FDMB.
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That's a very good answer actually. I'm not sure how to ask a vet's office that when I call because it's almost like I have to come off in a way like I know more than they do or like "hey, I know what the heck I'm doing so do you?" lol If you can think of specific questions for me to ask I'm all ears for sure.
 
Sieden said:
Since you mentioned that I was wondering what kind of specific questions I might ask. I'm going to start a new thread so that more people will see it and maybe I can get lots of answers but feel free to answer here too
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Off the top of my head:
  1. Do you treat many diabetic cats?
  2. What insulin do you generally prescribe and why?
  3. How do you decide on the starting dose of insulin?
  4. Are you an advocate of home testing of BG?
  5. What food do you recommend for diabetic cats?
  6. Do you require in clinic blood glucose curves to be done?
  7. Are you willing to work with an experienced owner who is very hands on?
Some of these seem trivial but give you a good idea of where the vet is coming from - eg. the question about recommended diet.
 
I certainly understand not wanting to come off as arrogant or confrontational. Not a good idea! Some of what you need to know can only be found out in a face to face visit with the vet. It might be worth spending a bit of cash if you have it in your budget to visit a vet with your kitty as an introduction/interview kind of appointment. You could mention tactfully that you've had a bad experience in the past with your kitty's FD treatment and you want to learn about someone else's approach.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Off the top of my head:
  1. Do you treat many diabetic cats?
  2. What insulin do you generally prescribe and why?
  3. How do you decide on the starting dose of insulin?
  4. Are you an advocate of home testing of BG?
  5. What food do you recommend for diabetic cats?
  6. Do you require in clinic blood glucose curves to be done?
  7. Are you willing to work with an experienced owner who is very hands on?
Some of these seem trivial but give you a good idea of where the vet is coming from - eg. the question about recommended diet.
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Oh yeah I didn't even think about the diet, normally I would think about that but I've been so stressed. If they said that stupid dry prescriptives bullshit I would hang up instantly.
My last vet MADE me buy that alphatrak II after I kept telling him that I couldn't even afford the medication, I now use the Relion Confirm.
 
Sieden said:
Oh yeah I didn't even think about the diet, normally I would think about that but I've been so stressed. If they said that stupid dry prescriptives bullshit I would hang up instantly.
My last vet MADE me buy that alphatrak II after I kept telling him that I couldn't even afford the medication, I now use the Relion Confirm.
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Well then, you need to be clear with a new vet that:
  • your budget is limited
  • you do home testing and can't afford nor see the need for in clinic curves
  • you feed him low carb wet food and that's what he likes
  • you use a human meter because that's what you can afford and you understand how to interpret its BG ranges
  • you track all your BG in a SS (show a copy)
If you can convey all these things politely but firmly it should set the tone for your relationship with the vet. If he/she balks or gets on his/her high horse about any of them, that's not the vet for you.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I certainly understand not wanting to come off as arrogant or confrontational. Not a good idea! Some of what you need to know can only be found out in a face to face visit with the vet. It might be worth spending a bit of cash if you have it in your budget to visit a vet with your kitty as an introduction/interview kind of appointment. You could mention tactfully that you've had a bad experience in the past with your kitty's FD treatment and you want to learn about someone else's approach.
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As nice as that would be, time isn't on my side and neither is the cash. That usually the case anyway which is why most of the time he either doesn't get to go to the vet because his last vet cost an arm and a leg or I end up taking him to some clinic but I don't want to have to do that this time. I am hoping to find some happy medium, like not the cheapest guy in town but not a hole in the wall either.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Well then, you need to be clear with a new vet that:
  • your budget is limited
  • you do home testing and can't afford nor see the need for in clinic curves
  • you feed him low carb wet food and that's what he likes
  • you use a human meter because that's what you can afford and you understand how to interpret its BG ranges
  • you track all your BG in a SS (show a copy)
If you can convey all these things politely but firmly it should set the tone for your relationship with the vet. If he/she balks or gets on his/her high horse about any of them, that's not the vet for you.
Click to expand...

Okay this sounds like a good place to start and a good tone. I have no idea why I couldn't figure that out on my own lol.
 
Sieden said:
As nice as that would be, time isn't on my side and neither is the cash. That usually the case anyway which is why most of the time he either doesn't get to go to the vet because his last vet cost an arm and a leg or I end up taking him to some clinic but I don't want to have to do that this time. I am hoping to find some happy medium, like not the cheapest guy in town but not a hole in the wall either.
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I understand completely. I wonder if you might call around and ask whether a vet would answer a couple of general questions about his/her FD approach and say you need a new vet for Peanut but he comes with this issue? The worst that can happen is that the front desk will say no.
 
Sieden said:
Okay this sounds like a good place to start and a good tone. I have no idea why I couldn't figure that out on my own lol.
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Easier for me because I'm on the outside looking in. ;) Could you do an online search of vet clinic reviews in your area before you book anywhere? Keep in mind that online reviews aren't always the best way to go. Do you have friends/family who might recommend a vet?
 
So far I've called 2 places and I've just said "yes hello, I'm looking for a new vet and I'd like to ask your doctor some specific questions about how he treats his diabetic patients". They took my number and said that they would have the Dr. call me back. I have a few other places to call but I had to stop and feed Peanut which brings up a new question. I was attempting to do a curve last night so he did go 12 hours without eating... he thought he was going to starve haha. I finally did see some movement in his numbers. I just tested him a few minutes ago and got 184. If you look since last night it was 307 and I had given him 1.5 units and then there wasn't much movement through the night then this morning, I see movement. I don't know if it's because he went so long without food or what. Now I'm sitting here not knowing how much insulin to give him. Originally I had planned on giving him 2 units because I thought that the 1.5 wasn't enough and now I don't know. What do you think? It's time for me to give it to him. What should I do?
 
Wow my first phone call did NOT go well, the receptionist just kept interrupting me and telling me that they couldn't answer my questions unless I made an appointment. The only question that she did answer was that they give prescription diet food.
 
Well, that doesn't sound promising, but giving them the benefit of doubt... maybe they were busy. :rolleyes:

Whenever I've looked for a new vet or doctor for that matter, I usually make an appointment to interview the vet/doctor in person before making a regular appointment. It costs a few bucks, but I feel like it's saved me both time and money in the long run.

I hope you're able to find a good vet soon!
 
Sieden said:
Wow my first phone call did NOT go well, the receptionist just kept interrupting me and telling me that they couldn't answer my questions unless I made an appointment. The only question that she did answer was that they give prescription diet food.
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oh yeah another answer that I got was about which insulin they would choose and which dose to start on. She said that each cat is different and you can't give a solid answer to that but it's primarily based on the cat's blood work which they couldn't determine without an office visit. All More Bullshit
 
Sieden said:
So far I've called 2 places and I've just said "yes hello, I'm looking for a new vet and I'd like to ask your doctor some specific questions about how he treats his diabetic patients". They took my number and said that they would have the Dr. call me back. I have a few other places to call but I had to stop and feed Peanut which brings up a new question. I was attempting to do a curve last night so he did go 12 hours without eating... he thought he was going to starve haha. I finally did see some movement in his numbers. I just tested him a few minutes ago and got 184. If you look since last night it was 307 and I had given him 1.5 units and then there wasn't much movement through the night then this morning, I see movement. I don't know if it's because he went so long without food or what. Now I'm sitting here not knowing how much insulin to give him. Originally I had planned on giving him 2 units because I thought that the 1.5 wasn't enough and now I don't know. What do you think? It's time for me to give it to him. What should I do?
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I see you gave him 1.5 u. I suggest you test a few times between +2 and +8. If he's dropped a lot at +2 he could have an active cycle. How's your supply of high carb wet food?
 
I though you are supposed to do curve with usual feedings so you know how insulin dose and his diet are working. Unless it's different for each insulin, I am not using Lantus.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I see you gave him 1.5 u. I suggest you test a few times between +2 and +8. If he's dropped a lot at +2 he could have an active cycle. How's your supply of high carb wet food?
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none, my BF has some 20 carb dry snacks that he feeds his precious little angel and I have some sugar water on hand with a syringe ready.
Edit: I am not okay with him feeding that dry ****, that's why we are breaking up and I'm moving my cats to a better place. I just want that to be known.
 
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Yong said:
Should get a couple cans of HC wet food and Karo syrup or honey, just in case.
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oh I have honey and I have my alarm set to test him in about 40 minutes. I'll keep an eye on him, he's my fur baby. I will get some high carb wet food when I go to the store next.
 
Thanks for that page. I used it have it on the fridge but it's gone now and I have it in his diabetic notebook that is 2 inches thick which would do me no good in a crisis so thank you. I didn't even think to look it up. I just posted his number it was 112. After his test I played with him (chasing the laser light) he wants to chase it and does chase it though not 100%, he just seems to not be feeling well in general. I know that something is wrong I just don't know what. He seems depressed and sleepy but this has been his overall mood for the past few days not just now.
 
okay I just read the page and I actually have some higher carb dry food that I've been hiding from Dan. I've been waiting for the perfect time to throw it away. If something happens then I'll give the honey and then feed some of the HC dry. It's tiny little pellets, and easy to eat. It's all that I have right now and I can't leave. I have suddenly gotten sick. The damn apartment landscape people were doing the grass today and I had to walk through it, I'm extremely allergic and I'm running a fever. I'm not going anywhere.
 
Oh no! Hope you feel better soon.
Just next time you are out pick up some HC wet food. We use wet food because it works faster, dry food can take time to effect BG. If he goes low today we can make it work. Are you testing more today? Has he eaten anything else since breakfast? The 72 point drop at +2 kind of scares me because it's still like 4 hours til mid cycle. @Bobbie And Bubba @Sharon14
You guys can probably help more since I don't use Lantus. Tagged you both from postings I've seen on the PZI thread :D
 
Sieden said:
none, my BF has some 20 carb dry snacks that he feeds his precious little angel and I have some sugar water on hand with a syringe ready.
Edit: I am not okay with him feeding that dry ****, that's why we are breaking up and I'm moving my cats to a better place. I just want that to be known.
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You had a significant drop at +2 so it would be wise to start testing at +4 again to see if he's on his way to green.
 
Yong said:
Oh no! Hope you feel better soon.
Just next time you are out pick up some HC wet food. We use wet food because it works faster, dry food can take time to effect BG. If he goes low today we can make it work. Are you testing more today? Has he eaten anything else since breakfast? The 72 point drop at +2 kind of scares me because it's still like 4 hours til mid cycle. @Bobbie And Bubba @Sharon14
You guys can probably help more since I don't use Lantus. Tagged you both from postings I've seen on the PZI thread :D
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Is there a specific HC food that you recommend because I've been into the LC stuff for so long that I don't know what I should give him, it seems SO foreign. Yes, I did also feel like the +2 was a large drop and I've been watching him constantly. He was just laying around not doing anything but as soon as I my eyes read "has he eaten anything" he started eating from his breakfast plate. He's not eating nearly as much as he usually does so I think that I will give him some plain LC canned instead of the can / raw blend and see if he'll eat any of that. I already have an alarm set to test him at +4
Edit: yes, he's now chowing down on the plain canned food
 
Sieden said:
Is there a specific HC food that you recommend because I've been into the LC stuff for so long that I don't know what I should give him, it seems SO foreign. Yes, I did also feel like the +2 was a large drop and I've been watching him constantly. He was just laying around not doing anything but as soon as I my eyes read "has he eaten anything" he started eating from his breakfast plate. He's not eating nearly as much as he usually does so I think that I will give him some plain LC canned instead of the can / raw blend and see if he'll eat any of that. I already have an alarm set to test him at +4
Edit: yes, he's now chowing down on the plain canned food
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Any of the Fancy Feast or Friskies canned foods that have sauce or gravy work. You can also put a little honey into low carb food in a pinch.
 
Thanks, I know which ones you're talking about. And he's eating again while standing in the middle of his plate, so nobody worry about him starving lol

And thanks Yong, I'm allergic to everything so I'm sure it will pass
 
I gave him 1 tsp of honey and went ahead and gave some of the dry food, about a tablespoon so that it would help to keep the numbers up. I panicked, I was having to force the honey down his throat and he was fighting me. There's honey on my bed, on my shirt, he's upset at me, I'm crying. I hate this.
 
Sieden said:
I gave him 1 tsp of honey and went ahead and gave some of the dry food, about a tablespoon so that it would help to keep the numbers up. I panicked, I was having to force the honey down his throat and he was fighting me. There's honey on my bed, on my shirt, he's upset at me, I'm crying. I hate this.
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Mix up a little honey with regular LC food to give next. You've just given honey and dry food. Wait 20 minutes and test again. If he's still low, give a small snack of the honey-laced LC. Wait 20 minutes, then test. Keep this up as long as he's low-ish. I have a guest here with me so can't sit in front of my computer but I'll check in.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Mix up a little honey with regular LC food to give next. You've just given honey and dry food. Wait 20 minutes and test again. If he's still low, give a small snack of the honey-laced LC. Wait 20 minutes, then test. Keep this up as long as he's low-ish. I have a guest here with me so can't sit in front of my computer but I'll check in.
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Thanks for the advice. I will try it, might try mixing just plain sugar as well but I have a feeling that he won't touch the food if I lace it with either one, just a feeling. Thank you for checking in.
 
Sieden said:
okay I will do that, thank you for the advice. All of it is greatly appreciated.

UPDATE:
I did a 20 min check on him and his number is at 100
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Good! Don't give him any more food but test him again in another 20 minutes. We want to make sure he is rising on his own, without food-influence.
 
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