? 3/23 Chino|AMPS=229|+4=108|+5=93|+6=111|+7=147|PMPFS=370|+2=492|Dosing R for furshot + bounce?

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Adrian and Chino

Adrian and Chino

Member Since 2016
Yesterday...

First cycle on 11 units. I'm loving these recent AMPS values. He's still bouncing from the PM yellows and blues every morning, but at least the bounces only last until the next PM cycle.
 
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You may have pulled the trigger on the increase to 11u a wee early but you monitor enough to keep him safe. Since he saw green on 10u next time I'd hold the dose 6 cycles from those greens before increasing personally. Today is the 5th cycle from those greens and he's looks like he's clearing the bounce....
 
So far, I've only seen green when he's coming down from a bounce. Never on a normal cycle. Then I see nothing but pink, yellow, and blue until the next increase. Getting good results today though so 11 units might be the magic number!
 
Adrian and Chino said:
So far, I've only seen green when he's coming down from a bounce
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I don't see where he was clearing a bounce with those greens on 3/20. Although today he is clearing a bounce from those greens. Just my observations of the SS....again you watch him and he'll let you know what he thinks soon enough! I'd watch him closely today.
 
I can't believe I'm seeing blue during the day! He just finished his 2nd meal after a +4 reading of 108. I'll definitely be getting a +6... should I get a +5 as well?
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I don't see where he was clearing a bounce with those greens on 3/20.
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He was bouncing from the 3/19 AM yellows. While it used to take him 6 cycles to clear a bounce, it seems he's now able to clear them in as little as 2 cycles as long as I'm not using R to suppress it (see 2/27 through 3/03).
 
Adrian and Chino said:
He was bouncing from the 3/19 AM yellows
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Sorry, but I don't see that as a bounce. Rather, that 9u got him to yellow. 10u got him to those greens. From the TR sticky, when you see green the dose should be held minimum of 6 cycles before increasing and up to 8-10 cycles. Others may not agree, but it's what I see. Certainly not criticizing, you're doing a great job with Chino and kitties area tricky.
 
When I started looking at what happened before, during, and after the period where I was using R, all of a sudden his previous patterns made sense. He goes lower at night, then bounces and shows flat pink daytime cycles that may or may not have a nadir, then goes lower again at night, etc.

When I started giving R, his PM cycles looked worse than ever because he was bouncing from the daytime yellows. He could never come down from the bounce as long as I was giving it.

When I stopped, the bounce played out and started breaking on 3/19. He bounced from that on the PM cycle, showed flat pink the next AM cycle, then came down on the 3/20 PM cycle.

A few more cycles without R might prove me wrong, but that's what I'm seeing when I look at his spreadsheet. Though this is the first ever daytime cycle that started with yellow and went down instead of up :D
 
Last night was a normal cycle, so he's not coming down from a bounce... this is just Lantus action. Should I go back to 10 units tonight and see how the next 3-4 cycles go?

Edited to add BG hx:

AMPS = 229 (1st meal)
[11 units Lantus (+1 increase from previous dose)]
+4 = 108 (2nd meal)
+5 = 93 (3 tsp FF 3%)
 
Adrian and Chino said:
Last night was a normal cycle, so he's not coming down from a bounce
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I disagree for my reasons stated above but it's a mute point. It's also the first time you did a 1u increase.

In regards to the dose, see what he does today. I could certainly be wrong and he might just be having a marked response to the increase this morning. Unless he earns the reduction by going under 50 I'd hold the dose. In the future when you see green, hold the dose a minimum of 6-8 cycles before increasing.

@Wendy&Neko or @Sandy and Black Kitty may have better input.

Surf safely now Chino.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I disagree for my reasons stated above but it's a mute point. It's also the first time you did a 1u increase.
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I've never seen a normal cycle where he reaches blue in the middle of a bounce. To me, that looks like he's not bouncing anymore, to be able to reach blue.

The first time I increased by a full unit was when I went from 9 units to 10 units.

I don't think I've ever seen a response to a dose change on the first cycle which makes me think it's the 10 unit depot that's doing this... but I'm doing my best not to overfeed so I can see how low he goes with minimal intervention.
 
AMPS = 229 (1st meal)
[11 units Lantus (+1 increase from previous dose)]
+4 = 108 (2nd meal)
+5 = 93 (3 tsp FF 3%)
+6 = 111 (treat: small pc freeze-dried chicken)
 
He actually had a nadir today, and it was at +5. On 3/19 and 3/20, it either happened at +4 or +5 (though I didn't get a +5 on those days). Is it possible to have a relatively reliable +7-9 nadir at night and a relatively reliable +4-5 nadir during the day? Still trying to pin down his daytime Lantus nadir (when he has one) to know how best to time R when it's needed.
 
Adrian and Chino said:
Is it possible to have a relatively reliable +7-9 nadir at night and a relatively reliable +4-5 nadir during the day?
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The word reliable and cat really don't go in the same sentence. Those are good times to start with but it's not uncommon for their nadirs to move around. Also think of the SS as a puzzle... fill in the spots at various times to complete the picture.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
The word reliable and cat really don't go in the same sentence.
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So true! Some cats are somewhat predictable, others not. Things like bounces, breaking of bounces, changes in dose, whether it's a full moon, can all impact when the nadir lands. I know we are fixed on finding the nadir because that's how we dose, but it doesn't have to be that exact. Now that you are starting to see some more "normal" cycles from Chino instead of just high/flat/pink, you will be able to better see his patterns for his onset, nadir and duration. And who knows they might even become more reliable.

BTW, awesome cycle today! :cool::D Neko used to every once in a while give me a sneak preview of what a dose can do in the first cycle. But not always. Remember that part about predictability and cats? :p:cat: Sandy has a great phrase for high dose cats, it's "go with the flow". I like to think about it as the Zen and Art of FD cat maintenance. Hope I'm not dating myself :p:oops:.

And I also agree with Karen that's it's good practice to be patient after seeing green, ie. six cycles, to see if they'll get back there before doing an increase. That said, I think you'll be fine at this dose for now. If not, Chino will let you know.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
The word reliable and cat really don't go in the same sentence. Those are good times to start with but it's not uncommon for their nadirs to move around. Also think of the SS as a puzzle... fill in the spots at various times to complete the picture.
Click to expand...

LOL. I did say relatively reliable, knowing that Chino likes to do his own thing when I least expect it. Still, I need to try to identify trends because if I ever go back to giving R on a regular basis, I need to know during which hours I have the highest probability of seeing the lowest BG - so I can try to avoid overlapping nadirs. It seems strange that it appears to peak earlier during the day than at night, so I was wondering if anyone knew something about why this happens (or why this can't happen, if it turns out I'm just "seeing things.")
 
Neko used to peak earlier during the night and later in the day often when on Lantus. Why? Because she'd go lower at night then bounce during the day. On bounce or bouncelet days, her peak was later.
 
Of all his cycles, this was the single most beautiful one I've seen... I want to print and frame it! About to get the PMPS but might not be able to post anything more until late. A friend I haven't seen in years is coming over. It will be my 3rd social event since I moved back to Tampa 3 months ago >_<.
 
I'm pretty sure the ENTIRE 11 UNITS just ended up in his fur. I saw this big glob of insulin as I was removing the needle. So I'm giving 1 unit of R and hoping it doesn't screw up the next 6 cycles :(
 
Please help... On 3/13, I gave 1 unit R on top of a fur shot. It took him from 319 to 261-267-265. Tonight, I gave 1 unit R on top of a fur shot and I'm not seeing any effect. PMPS was 370 and it's 492 now at +2. I know part of that is because he's bouncing from this morning's green, but I want to keep him out of super dangerous numbers tonight. Can I give more at +4 (his 4th meal) if it's still climbing or if there's been no downward movement? I'm prepared to monitor for however long is necessary... Please advise. I can't BELIEVE I gave another fur shot. But at least it was the 2nd cycle of the increase, so we only lost 1 day.
 
Has it been a full two hours since the R was given? Neko used to take longer than that for the R onset.

If I had a dollar for every time I fur shot at the start of a bounce. :arghh: Depending on his numbers at +4 you can give more R. Or you can cringe and get some sleep yourself for once. He'll be fine with just one bad cycle.:bighug:
 
Yep, full 2 hours. When I realized what I'd done, I immediately drew the dose of R (after checking the SS to see what I gave last time) and gave it while he was licking the last bits of food from his plate.

Thanks for the guidance. I'll probably give another dose with his last meal at +4, drink enough gin to get 1-2 hours of sleep, check his BG, repeat, check his BG, then go to bed for the last 4 hours of the cycle. Tomorrow is a new day.
 
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