Disheartened before curve

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Hermione also has a notch out of an ear from deciding to shake her head right when I poked it. I felt like the worst cat mom ever but she was more interested in the sudden appearance of blood-spatter wall art than her torn ear, and a moment of pressure stopped the bleeding. She did get some extra treats out of it though!

Now I'm more careful about how I hold her ear so hopefully it won't happen again :p

I'm usually still awake around your AMPS time, so I'll keep an eye out if you have questions - I'm happy to help where I can!
 
ShipsCat said:
Hermione also has a notch out of an ear from deciding to shake her head right when I poked it. I felt like the worst cat mom ever but she was more interested in the sudden appearance of blood-spatter wall art than her torn ear, and a moment of pressure stopped the bleeding. She did get some extra treats out of it though!

Now I'm more careful about how I hold her ear so hopefully it won't happen again :p

I'm usually still awake around your AMPS time, so I'll keep an eye out if you have questions - I'm happy to help where I can!
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War stories! We all have 'em ... :blackeye:
 
Rachel said:
Sorry Caitlin! We're all asleep when your AMPS is. I think 1.8 was fine for today.

Looks like you're still getting about the same numbers...good numbers but we still want that nadir to come down some. I'm good with 2 units when you can monitor. Hopefully we'll break through and get some lower cycles soon!
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I know, the numbers keep giving me little glimpses of hope, but never go lower. I just gave his first 2 units! Will update +#'s tonight.
Djamila said:
Yup, I've done that a few times too. Sam has a little tiny notch missing on his left year (you have to look really closely to see it) from the day he decided to jump off the counter just as I poked him - tore a little bit out of his ear that never grew back, poor thing. I cried. He seemed unfazed. Just shook his head and pawed the air for a treat. :rolleyes:
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ShipsCat said:
Hermione also has a notch out of an ear from deciding to shake her head right when I poked it. I felt like the worst cat mom ever but she was more interested in the sudden appearance of blood-spatter wall art than her torn ear, and a moment of pressure stopped the bleeding. She did get some extra treats out of it though!
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Kris & Teasel said:
War stories! We all have 'em ... :blackeye:
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I am SO relieved to hear that it's happened to others! Gah, you really do feel horrible when it happens, but I also wanted to scold him saying 'natural consequences!'.
ShipsCat said:
I'm usually still awake around your AMPS time, so I'll keep an eye out if you have questions - I'm happy to help where I can!
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Thank you so much, I appreciate this more than you know. It's scary knowing not many people are awake at that time if I need urgent help.
 
You can also post in the main health forum if it's urgent. Not a lot of ProZinc users there but some very knowledgeable people who can help with a hypo or other crisis!

That's the best thing about this forum, in my opinion. Everyone is always ready to help where they're able :cat:
 
Caitlin M said:
I know, the numbers keep giving me little glimpses of hope, but never go lower. I just gave his first 2 units! Will update +#'s tonight.



I am SO relieved to hear that it's happened to others! Gah, you really do feel horrible when it happens, but I also wanted to scold him saying 'natural consequences!'.

Thank you so much, I appreciate this more than you know. It's scary knowing not many people are awake at that time if I need urgent help.
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sometimes you can find people online on the facebook page and then they can come back over here.
 
Yep! It's a closed group called Feline Diabetes. You can request to join it. Also try posting on Health if you don't get any answers...there may be more people there, though they might also not be able to advise much on Prozinc...but certainly worth a try.
 
Hey guys! I posted over on the Main as well, but WE HAVE HIT GREEN! I did a +5 (later than I wanted unfortunately) and he was at 84. I'm praying he didn't go any lower before I tested. What do I do from here? I can wake up and test whenever. What happens if his AMPS is lower than I'm used to? Above what number is it OK to give the 2 units again, since that seems to have done the trick. Also, I leave at 7 tomorrow am, so I could do a +2 or +3 or both? Yeah, I'm in new, slightly confused territory. Thanks!
 
Caitlin M said:
I just finished updating my ProZinc thread! Any idea what I would do if his pre shots are not in the high yellow or pink? Thanks Yong!
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Maury gave me some low PreShot numbers past 3 nights, not including tonight, I gave him reduced doses. Might not be the best example because he came up a couple hours later. We'll see what our saviours say :cat:

I don't think we can delete our threads once we create them. Could probably ask a Moderator to do it, or just ignore it lol
 
First of all.....WOOHOO on the GREEN!!! When do you think his nadir hits? It looks like maybe +6?

When Sam hit green a couple of nights ago, @ShipsCat suggested to mostly keep the regular dose the next day, just a little skinny since after a new low, they are likely to stay flatter the next cycle.
 
Caitlin M said:
I'm not sure if I should or need to test again at maybe a +8?
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Hooray for green!!!

I would definitely get at least one more test in to make sure Pita doesn't keep dropping into hypo territory. ProZinc usually hits nadir at 6-7hrs, but sometimes it can linger. If you can, test at +6 and +7 just to be safe. You don't want him getting too much lower.

As I found out to my shock this morning, a cat can dip into hypo numbers with absolutely NO signs. Hermione was sitting on my lap purring and watching tv for over an hour but when I took her AMPS she was only 55! I use an AT pet meter and hypo range starts at 65 :eek:
 
Just for more comparison, Maury tends to nadir around +5. When his numbers are not making me want to pull my hair out lol
 
Hermione typically hits nadir at +7. Just goes to show Every Cat Is Different!

As for the morning dose, it depends on the AMPS number but unless it's way lower it's best to not make many dose changes until you have the data to help you know how your cat will react. And don't be surprised to see a higher AMPS, the lower blood sugar can cause the body to panic and release sugar in response - what we call "bouncing." Don't increase the insulin dose to chase a bounce, not only is it ineffective it can be dangerous - when the liver runs out of sugar to dump into the bloodstream if there's still active insulin your cat can crash into a severe hypo.

If your AMPS is much lower you might want to give a little reduction, especially if no one will be home to monitor. There are several eastern North American time zone folks who should be around in the morning to ask if you need :)
 
And every cat is different every time, too. Last time Sam's nadir was around +3, this time it's closer to +5.5. This whole thing is so complex!
 
ShipsCat said:
I would definitely get at least one more test in to make sure Pita doesn't keep dropping into hypo territory. ProZinc usually hits nadir at 6-7hrs, but sometimes it can linger. If you can, test at +6 and +7 just to be safe. You don't want him getting too much lower.
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ShipsCat said:
As for the morning dose, it depends on the AMPS number but unless it's way lower it's best to not make many dose changes until you have the data to help you know how your cat will react. And don't be surprised to see a higher AMPS, the lower blood sugar can cause the body to panic and release sugar in response - what we call "bouncing."
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Djamila said:
And every cat is different every time, too. Last time Sam's nadir was around +3, this time it's closer to +5.5. This whole thing is so complex!
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Yong said:
Just for more comparison, Maury tends to nadir around +5.
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Good morning! Well, I was already asleep when I got the +6,+7 suggestion, but I had set my alarm for a +8 and it was at 160. AMPS is now at 408, so yes, definitely a bounce. I'm going to give him a skinny 2 units (I believe that means just a tiny bit less?) and test him at +2 or so before I leave. Fingers crossed he doesn't go too low while I'm at work :nailbiting: Thank you everyone! I'm interested to see if this is his good dose number.
 
That red AMPS number is actually really pretty close to your pink PMPS last night - it's within the typical margin of error for test strips. Good call on the skinny 2u, hopefully he follows the previous cycle!

Your +2 test will give you an idea of where he's going in the cycle. If it's a steep drop you can give him a little food or a few medium-carb treats to slow it down.
 
ShipsCat said:
That red AMPS number is actually really pretty close to your pink PMPS last night - it's within the typical margin of error for test strips. Good call on the skinny 2u, hopefully he follows the previous cycle!

Your +2 test will give you an idea of where he's going in the cycle. If it's a steep drop you can give him a little food or a few medium-carb treats to slow it down.
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Thank you! How steep would you say to give him food? It does make me a bit nervous about leaving for the day.
 
We don't have a whole lot of data to guide us yet, but I'd say if he drops into mid yellow at +2 you might consider a little snack for him. Not a huge meal, but maybe a spoonful of regular FF or a few medium-carb treats. I keep Temptations treats for my civvies and if Hermione is dropping sharply before I leave for work I give her 2-3 pieces.

Some of the daytime eastern North America crew should be up around your +2 if you need them, I'll likely be sleeping as that's a little past my normal bedtime (which is about now) ;)
 
I just did a +2.5 and it was 296. Is anyone available to let me know if I should give some regular food before I leave in the next 15 minutes or so?! Thank you!
 
He dropped about 100 points, which isn't bad. I think he'll be okay, but if it makes you feel more comfortable, you could give him a small snack.
 
Rachel said:
He dropped about 100 points, which isn't bad. I think he'll be okay, but if it makes you feel more comfortable, you could give him a small snack.
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I gave him a bunch of treats when I tested, so I'll just give him a few more. Thank you Rachel!
 
Caitlin M said:
Thanks Kris! Just so I'm clear, skinny means a tiny bit less and fat means a tiny bit more?
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Yes, you decide what your version of skinny or fat is and try to be as consistent as you can. Example, for a line measured dose, I align the top surface of the plunger with the unit mark. To make a skinny, I rotate the plunger like a screw until a small drop of insulin comes out and the top surface of the plunger is just above (ie., closer to zero) the unit mark.
 
Make
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, you decide what your version of skinny or fat is and try to be as consistent as you can. Example, for a line measured dose, I align the top surface of the plunger with the unit mark. To make a skinny, I rotate the plunger like a screw until a small drop of insulin comes out and the top surface of the plunger is just above (ie., closer to zero) the unit mark.
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Makes sense, thank you so much!
 
Sounds like a good plan! The more data you gather the more educated decisions you can make about dosing. :)
 
AMPS is at 381. I believe it means he's still bouncing? Not quite sure if I keep with the 2 units to get him adjusted or if it needs to go down a bit/skinny? I didn't see any blue yesterday either, never mind green.
 
Looking at his sheet, I gave his first 2 units with a high pink PMPS and he got to green. Then his next AMPS and PMPS were low reds. This AMPS is a high pink so I'll still do the 2 units. I won't be able to monitor but I think that's a type of positive pattern overall? Oy. Someday I'll be able to look at it and know what dose to given his readings!
 
Good call on giving a skinny 2u since you won't be able to monitor.

The goal is not just to get them into normal numbers but to do it in a controlled fashion so there is minimal (hopefully no) bouncing. When there's a really steep drop (like he had the other day with 2u on a high pink) it's more likely to cause a bounce because the change in blood sugar is so abrupt.
 
ShipsCat said:
Good call on giving a skinny 2u since you won't be able to monitor.

The goal is not just to get them into normal numbers but to do it in a controlled fashion so there is minimal (hopefully no) bouncing. When there's a really steep drop (like he had the other day with 2u on a high pink) it's more likely to cause a bounce because the change in blood sugar is so abrupt.
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It's strange- I understand what you mean but then when I try to figure it out myself later, it's a bit harder. Does that make any sense? Thank you! Glad I gave the skinny also. At this point I'll probably keep him on the 2 units until after I finally do his curve this weekend.
 
I spent a lot of time double-checking my dosage choices with Kris, Sue, Rachel and anyone else who had an insight to share ;) I'll still ask if I'm unsure! It gets easier as you go along, and have more data to consult.

Staying at 2u is a good plan. You had a lovely green, and as he gets more used to the dose hopefully he'll have a smoother, more gentle cycle. You can always make little adjustments by going fat or skinny if he gets a little lower for a PS, although if its substantially lower and you're not going to be able to monitor you might want a larger reduction to be careful.
 
ShipsCat said:
I spent a lot of time double-checking my dosage choices with Kris, Sue, Rachel and anyone else who had an insight to share ;) I'll still ask if I'm unsure! It gets easier as you go along, and have more data to consult.

Staying at 2u is a good plan. You had a lovely green, and as he gets more used to the dose hopefully he'll have a smoother, more gentle cycle. You can always make little adjustments by going fat or skinny if he gets a little lower for a PS, although if its substantially lower and you're not going to be able to monitor you might want a larger reduction to be careful.
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Thank you SO much. I hoped he would even out and show lower blues/higher greens again! So I'll stay at the 2 :) I feel like I've been doing this for so long and have so much data- then I remember it hasn't even been a month yet :p
Yong said:
I feel the same way! lol :)
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Haha yayyyy, glad it's not just me!
 
Caitlin M said:
Thank you SO much. I hoped he would even out and show lower blues/higher greens again! So I'll stay at the 2 :) I feel like I've been doing this for so long and have so much data- then I remember it hasn't even been a month yet :p

Haha yayyyy, glad it's not just me!
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There's nothing easy about this, Caitlin. It takes tons of data and lots of time experimenting with doses to learn how to read/predict numbers. Even then they can throw curve balls because they're cats. :confused:

I'm getting a little better at it but have only been following the FDMB way of doing things since last August. Teasel doesn't help though - he's very unpredictable.
 
Hmmm...that's kind of up to you Caitlin. It seems like his nadir is often +5...so that gives about an hour to drop around 80 points. He's had a pretty steep drop today, but I don't know how likely it is that he's going to drop that much further in the next hour. Maybe grab another nowish and see if he is dropping much...should give you an idea of where he is likely to go by +5.
 
Sounds good! After that, you'll probably be fine to get some rest...and just think the weekend is almost here so hopefully you can get some more rest in then! :) :coffee:
 
Rachel said:
Sounds good! After that, you'll probably be fine to get some rest...and just think the weekend is almost here so hopefully you can get some more rest in then! :) :coffee:
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Thanks! Definitely looking forward to the weekend. But I do need to officially do his first Curve this Sunday since last was a bust on my end :rolleyes:
 
AMPS was 356, thinking of just another skinny 2 but his pre shots have been pretty consistent since yesterday morning! I just realized I'm doing his curve on Sunday but it's also the time change. How do I make sure this doesn't mess anything up? Do I start a time change myself tonight so it equals out by Sunday? What do I do?! :nailbiting:
 
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