Dosing thoughts for K T and Cooper

[Lisa & Leo]

Hi All! It's been quite a week for me and @K T and Cooper learning about Prozinc and diabetes in general! Cooper was started on too high a dose, and we've been lowering the dose based on advice from last week to aim for two shootable numbers each day that don't require stalls. We stepped down from 3.0u -> 2.4u -> 2.0u -> 1.6u and even THEN we had a non-shootable number at PMPS last night. Imagine our surprise last night when he threw a 107 at PMPS! After stalling 2 hours, he only rose to 158 so they skipped a shot last night.

Cooper is enjoying blues and greens and 18-24 hour cycles, but we need to get some regular 12-hour smilie cycles rather than a smilie during the day and a bounce at night.

This morning, I suggested they back all the way down to 1.0u just to see if we can get a regular cycle. We will see what happens this afternoon and at PMPS tonight, but at this point, we don't have a dose to work from.

Cooper's SS
Link to previous thread

So question - was the logic to shoot 1.0u this morning reasonable? And, what should the strategy be for tonight? We would like to get regular cycles going, regardless of how high they are, just to feel like we are starting from a solid baseline of normal cycles. That makes me think we just restart at a lower dose like 1.0u and work up as necessary rather than going back to a previous dose, to get away from the long cycles and bounces.

They will be getting a mid-cycle value, and then testing to shoot tonight some time around 7pm Pacific.

Thanks!

 

[JanetNJ]

Hi All! It's been quite a week for me and @K T and Cooper learning about Prozinc and diabetes in general! Cooper was started on too high a dose, and we've been lowering the dose based on advice from last week to aim for two shootable numbers each day that don't require stalls. We stepped down from 3.0u -> 2.4u -> 2.0u -> 1.6u and even THEN we had a non-shootable number at PMPS last night. Imagine our surprise last night when he threw a 107 at PMPS! After stalling 2 hours, he only rose to 158 so they skipped a shot last night.

Cooper is enjoying blues and greens and 18-24 hour cycles, but we need to get some regular 12-hour smilie cycles rather than a smilie during the day and a bounce at night.

This morning, I suggested they back all the way down to 1.0u just to see if we can get a regular cycle. We will see what happens this afternoon and at PMPS tonight, but at this point, we don't have a dose to work from.

Cooper's SS

So question - was the logic to shoot 1.0u this morning reasonable? And, what should the strategy be for tonight? We would like to get regular cycles going, regardless of how high they are, just to feel like we are starting from a solid baseline of normal cycles. That makes me think we just restart at a lower dose like 1.0u and work up as necessary rather than going back to a previous dose, to get away from the long cycles and bounces.

They will be getting a mid-cycle value, and then testing to shoot tonight some time around 7pm Pacific.

Thanks!

Can't hurt to try it.... Let's see what happens.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

I like this approach. If the 1 u turns out to be too low it can be increased by 0.2 u. We recommend a minimum of 3 cycles at a dose to see how it's working - unless it's obviously too high.

 

[Rachel]

I like it too. We often recommend new members to start at 1 unit since vets often start kitties too high. 1 unit is usually safe and, as Kris said, can always be raised in small increments as needed.

For tonight's dose, I'd probably stick with 1 if he's high enough. As Kris mentioned, we try to stick with a dose for AT LEAST 3 cycles...6 if the kitty isn't too hight. It looks like that will be around 5 my time. I'll try to check in if you want to post his PMPS beforehand. I'm fighting off a really bad cold though (great way to spend my weekend) so I may or may not be at all smart..my brain is so foggy this weekend that I'm not sure if anything I've posted makes any sense! As long as my brain fog clears up enough for me to remember, though, I'll check in.

 

[Lisa & Leo]

AMPS 405
+6 343

Let's hope he goes back up at PMPS for a normal cycle. If he keeps comes down, after not having gotten a shot last night, my brain could explode.

@K T and Cooper and I agree with the plan to shoot 1.0u and hold for at least 3 cycles unless something unexpected happens.

Thanks @Kris & Teasel, @Rachel, and @JanetNJ!

 

[Kris & Teasel]

He's bouncing today from the lows yesterday. Not to worry. Give him some time at 1 u to see if he settles, even if BGs are higher than you want. My experience with a very bouncy cat taught me to to avoid too many dose changes, both in frequency and magnitude. It's also important to not react strongly to individual numbers but to focus on the overall trends on the SS.

 

[Lisa & Leo]

He's bouncing today from the lows yesterday. Not to worry. Give him some time at 1 u to see if he settles, even if BGs are higher than you want. My experience with a very bouncy cat taught me to to avoid too many dose changes, both in frequency and magnitude. It's also important to not react strongly to individual numbers but to focus on the overall trends on the SS.

Yes - agreed! That's why I was thinking we might do well by just shooting 1.0u and sticking with it instead of trying to return to what we were shooting before and hoping. I'm really glad you guys are supportive of it. We are okay if he is higher for some cycles, but having "regular" cycles. Mom and Dad understand that 1.0u may be too low, but we want to set a baseline and then work back up if we have to.

Thank you for clarifying things. I know Mom is reading this in the background and then going to the spreadsheet and studying! I am so very proud of all the work and learning that they are doing. It's been a rocky start, but Cooper's behavior has improved significantly in the last several days - more alert and engaging, not running away at test time as much - so everyone sees that he is reacting positively to the insulin and healthy BGs! Good job, Cooper! <3

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Yes - agreed! That's why I was thinking we might do well by just shooting 1.0u and sticking with it instead of trying to return to what we were shooting before and hoping. I'm really glad you guys are supportive of it. We are okay if he is higher for some cycles, but having "regular" cycles. Mom and Dad understand that 1.0u may be too low, but we want to set a baseline and then work back up if we have to.

Thank you for clarifying things. I know Mom is reading this in the background and then going to the spreadsheet and studying! I am so very proud of all the work and learning that they are doing. It's been a rocky start, but Cooper's behavior has improved significantly in the last several days - more alert and engaging, not running away at test time as much - so everyone sees that he is reacting positively to the insulin and healthy BGs! Good job, Cooper! <3

The start is always hard but more so if you run into problems early on. Do you think your parents will feel free to come to the forum to ask questions? We'd be pleased to help in any way we can and there are a few complicated kitties here with owners who are great at dosing.

 

[Lisa & Leo]

The start is always hard but more so if you run into problems early on. Do you think your parents will feel free to come to the forum to ask questions? We'd be pleased to help in any way we can and there are a few complicated kitties here with owners who are great at dosing.

Hi Kris - I think my parents will come here if I am not around to help. For now, I am working with them and they have been looking over my shoulder as I post (hi mom!). I wanted them to join so if/when I am not available, that they have somewhere to ask questions. I am hoping that by discussing Cooper's dosing and working through plans that they will be comfortable enough to trust strangers if need be.

FDMB was terrific to me when I was here full time, and I tried to pay it forward after Leo went OTJ for a while until other parts of my life got in the way. I learned there were some people here I could trust, and wanted to find those folks for Prozinc for Cooper - thank you for being one of those special people!

 

[Rachel]

Hi Lisa's mom!!!!!!

Yep, we're here if they need help. We're all paying it forward just like you did...and like you are now with helping your parents! FDMB is certainly a lifesaver...I've gotten help here for all my kitties health problems...not just for the diabetes. The wealth of knowledge collected here amazes me daily.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Hi Kris - I think my parents will come here if I am not around to help. For now, I am working with them and they have been looking over my shoulder as I post (hi mom!). I wanted them to join so if/when I am not available, that they have somewhere to ask questions. I am hoping that by discussing Cooper's dosing and working through plans that they will be comfortable enough to trust strangers if need be.

FDMB was terrific to me when I was here full time, and I tried to pay it forward after Leo went OTJ for a while until other parts of my life got in the way. I learned there were some people here I could trust, and wanted to find those folks for Prozinc for Cooper - thank you for being one of those special people!

Thank you for the kind words!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Hi Lisa - just stopping in to say hello. Please pass on some scritches for my favorite former Rainbow King. Good luck to you and your parents with Cooper.

 

[Lisa & Leo]

Hi Lisa - just stopping in to say hello. Please pass on some scritches for my favorite former Rainbow King. Good luck to you and your parents with Cooper.

Hi Wendy - boy, those were some crazy times with Leo and Neko and the bouncing marathons. I am very sorry to hear of Neko's passing. (((hugs)))

 

[Lisa & Leo]

PMPS 492.

Well, we broke that bounce! But ugh what an ugly number! Come down, Cooper! They shot 1.0u. Let's hope for real cycles, and getting him back in the happy blues.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

PMPS 492.

Well, we broke that bounce! But ugh what an ugly number! Come down, Cooper! They shot 1.0u. Let's hope for real cycles, and getting him back in the happy blues.

High this AM from no dose last night and maybe some bouncing today. Too soon to rule on this dose.

 

[Lisa & Leo]

Cooper has done three cycles on 1.0u and was high the entire time. The last two cycles were somewhat flat and meandering after the bounce. So, we decided to go up conservatively to 1.2u at PMPS tonight. Fingers crossed he comes down a bit.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

I agree with the trial of 1.2 u. Keep in mind that bounces can last up to 6 cycles to clear and I think the high pinks, etc. were bounces from the blue PMPS.

 

[K T and Cooper]

Hi Lisa's mom!!!!!!

Yep, we're here if they need help. We're all paying it forward just like you did...and like you are now with helping your parents! FDMB is certainly a lifesaver...I've gotten help here for all my kitties health problems...not just for the diabetes. The wealth of knowledge collected here amazes me daily.

Hi Rachel,
I am re-reading everything on FDMB again and doing my homework. Think I am finally coming "out of the fog" and realizing we can handle this (even when standing there looking at the latest reading and wondering "what am I supposed to do now???" Lisa and this FDMB have been such lifesavers for us and we are so grateful.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Hi Rachel,
I am re-reading everything on FDMB again and doing my homework. Think I am finally coming "out of the fog" and realizing we can handle this (even when standing there looking at the latest reading and wondering "what am I supposed to do now???" Lisa and this FDMB have been such lifesavers for us and we are so grateful.

There's a lot to learn but you'll get there. You can ask for help here or on the main health forum if it's too quiet on this forum. I think I said before that consistency is key especially at the beginning - keep the same dose AM and PM for at least 3 cycles, preferably a little longer at the start. Keep the same dosing times AM and PM. Restrain your impulse to react to single numbers because it's the big picture that counts. Once you've amassed weeks of data and are becoming very familiar with Cooper's patterns you can tweak your procedures on dosing, etc.

 

[K T and Cooper]

There's a lot to learn but you'll get there. You can ask for help here or on the main health forum if it's too quiet on this forum. I think I said before that consistency is key especially at the beginning - keep the same dose AM and PM for at least 3 cycles, preferably a little longer at the start. Keep the same dosing times AM and PM. Restrain your impulse to react to single numbers because it's the big picture that counts. Once you've amassed weeks of data and are becoming very familiar with Cooper's patterns you can tweak your procedures on dosing, etc.

Thanks for the encouragement, Kris. It has been hard but am realizing we must be patient, look at the big picture, and stop reacting to just the current value.