My cat Fluffer won't eat.

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My kitty gets lethargic when he's high, and his highs aren't even that high (usually in the 200's). There are experts here who can give better advice than I can, but I would think if he's over 200, honey might possibly make him feel worse instead of better?

We have Burlington Coat Factory stores around here, too. Are they all over the country? (I live in the NW).
 
I don't understand why you would skip if he was over 200. It is safe to shoot then; you could skinny up the dose if you want to. Honey should be used if he is in hypo range - under 50. Honey at 200 will only raise his numbers as will skipping the dose.

I can see your spreadsheet. Do you understand how to add the data?
 
Yes he could be lethargic due to feeling bad from high numbers....I would still shoot if over 200. That should help him feel better.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I don't understand why you would skip if he was over 200. It is safe to shoot then; you could skinny up the dose if you want to. Honey should be used if he is in hypo range - under 50. Honey at 200 will only raise his numbers as will skipping the dose.

I can see your spreadsheet. Do you understand how to add the data?
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I can't see my spreadsheet from my phone so I'll have to wait till tonight to see it I guess.
 
I can see Fluffer's spreadsheet but there are no numbers recorded. Have you been testing him?
 
Do you guys have a link for it from here because I can't see it logging on on my phone. The only one I can see is the one I uploaded a few days ago.
 
It doesn't work right for me on here. Excel shouldn't be this much of a challenge. On my computer I just enter the values and save them. I just did it twice on this thing and it didn't save them either time. I'm frustrated with the online google docs version of it.
 
Anyway, Fluffer has been high all week. 300-500. I saw him get under 300 once this week I think. Last week he had some good days down around 150 I think. He's been happy most every day, and this morning he was playing chasing the laser dot, but tonight he's really out of it. I gave him a shot at 12 and he was at around 500 then. So he got two units. He ate today and before the shot, but I haven't seen him drinking much water lately. I tested him two hours later and it said his levels were 452. I'm 99% sure I didn't miss with the shot. But if I did do I do another unit just to be sure? I don't know how to pick his energy up, bath maybe?
 
Another shot is not recommended after a suspected fur shot. Lately for Chuck-- his prozinc hasn't started dropping his numbers much until +3 to +4... I would give it more time to work and see if it's just taking a bit longer.
 
We really do need to see some data on your spreadsheet in order to give good advice. You have the other tools in place - insulin, the testing skills, etc. - and I'm sure we can help you get Fluffer on track if you could put data on the SS.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
We really do need to see some data on your spreadsheet in order to give good advice. You have the other tools in place - insulin, the testing skills, etc. - and I'm sure we can help you get Fluffer on track if you could put data on the SS.
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I'm not going to poke him three times a day. He hates it and his ear looks terrible from all the pokes. He runs away from me now, something he never did in 13 years. I want him to be healthy but not to hate me for it. His levels are almost always the same, between 300 and 500 so I'm guessing I need to go up in the dosage. This might not be the right insulin for him anyway. Today I gave him a shot and he was at 340. I check him an hour later because he's looking really bad and he's now at 370. That makes no sense to me. I thought the whole point of this stuff was to make it go down, not up.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I'm not going to poke him three times a day. He hates it and his ear looks terrible from all the pokes. He runs away from me now, something he never did in 13 years. I want him to be healthy but not to hate me for it. His levels are almost always the same, between 300 and 500 so I'm guessing I need to go up in the dosage. This might not be the right insulin for him anyway. Today I gave him a shot and he was at 340. I check him an hour later because he's looking really bad and he's now at 370. That makes no sense to me. I thought the whole point of this stuff was to make it go down, not up.
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It can take 2 to 4 hours for ProZinc to really start moving the numbers.
My cat goes up after a meal almost every time by 100 points. 340 and 370 are essentially the same number because the meter has a 20% variance.
 
StephG said:
How much insulin did you give him?
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I decided to go a little higher. I normally do two units twice daily, so I did 2.5 but it's really hard to get that close with these syringes. They measure units not halves or quarters. I really thought tonight was it for him. He still can't seem to get above 11 1/2 pounds and normal for him is 23 pounds. Holding him now feels weird after years of having a Garfield. He was much happier fat, but now we're where we are because he's such a piggie. My other cat eats an appropriate amount. She weighs around the same but she's much smaller so she looks healthy. She eats when she's hungry, he eats when there's food. Or he used to. I was hoping he'd gain 5 pounds back, but my wife tells me once diabetics lose weight it never comes back. I hope that's not true, he's scrwany now. You can see all his ribs. I wound up having to force feed him water and food tonight. He's managing by himself right now, but it was touch and go for a while.
 
Diabetics can gain the weight back...we know several who have.

We'd love to help you, but without any data on your SS and some mid cycle numbers, there's no way for us to give advice on what would be a good dose. Remember that his preshots don't tell the story...they only tell you whether he's too low to give insulin. Without knowing if he is going low and bouncing or staying high and flat, there's no way to know if it's too much or too little insulin.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I'm not going to poke him three times a day. He hates it and his ear looks terrible from all the pokes. He runs away from me now, something he never did in 13 years. I want him to be healthy but not to hate me for it.
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I mean no disrespect with my following opinion. I've never been great at diplomacy or sugar coating my thoughts but I take my time with these sort of replies, so I try.

We all care about our fur babies or we would not be here trying to help. You are not poking him to hurt him and for his ear looking terrible, we can provide some tips; JUST ASK. We help each other here but only if you are willing as well :). I can sense your anxiety through that post, so I really think Fluffer is feeding off your emotions. As long as you are anxious and scared while doing this, he will react accordingly. You are doing this to help him be healthy as he can :bighug:. Beating yourself up is not good for either of you.

acsmith1972 said:
...my wife tells me once diabetics lose weight it never comes back.
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I understand the sadness with the weight loss. My boy used to be 18lbs and at diagnosis he was down to around 10lbs. I felt like I was hugging a skeleton with fur. He has gained almost 2lbs since then. Another Prozinc member has also put some weight back on her boy, @StephG , she might be around the 2lb mark as well but a little more time. I've tagged her so she can verify :cat:. Remember, the treatment is a marathon not a sprint.

Lastly, please strongly consider the Spreadsheet as Rachel, and probably others when you first posted, have suggested. All you would have to do is fill in the numbers. We have people here who can help get it setup with a short conversation.
 
Yeah, I'm not going to poke him several times a day. I just can't. He hates it. My wife doesn't even want to any more. He hisses, something he just doesn't do, or makes a hurt sound, and his ear started looking terrible with boo-boos all over it. I can't poke his other ear because that's a cauliflower ear and hard to work with. And paws are just a really bad idea. Best I can do is once every few days. It's not how feel that's causing him pain or making his ear look like crap and he started getting really stressed from it. He sees me and he runs sometimes. Now that I stopped poking him twice a day he doesn't run away.
 
Yes. Chuck got down to 9 pounds. He was 13.5 3 months before that. He is up to 11 pounds now and it took us 6 months. He is still skinny! He's put on some "fat" but not much muscle yet. I'm hoping to get him "working out" this summer and gain some muscle. One thing I have seen and learned is that when their diabetes isn't controlled and in high numbers they can't use the nutrients they're eating. I had to increase Chuck to two cans of 9Lives a day with snacks of young again. I was using chicken breast in the beginning. I also tried Fancy feast kitten pate.
Have you tried poking his cauliflower ear? I only ask because Chuck has it on his right ear too. He had 2 hematoma surgeries on that ear with the pillow stitches (I think that's what it's called). Anyway he seems to have decreased sensation in that ear and it bleeds very very easily. He also had a hematoma in his left ear but the vet just poked a hole in it and let it drain because after seeing the torture he went through in his right ear I was NOT making him have surgery again. It worked out well and looks so much better than his other ear. His left ear is sensitive. I poke him with a "1" on the poker and he still gets PO'd.
Treats are a good way to get him to see that oooh if I get poked I get a treat. It might make it easier for the times that you do decide you want to test. Chuck probably would live up to his real name, Satan, if I tried poking his little foot.
 
You are poking the area between the Marginal Vein and outer ear, not the actual vein, right? You really should be testing him at least the twice daily at pre-test shots to make sure he is safe to get insulin.
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After you get the blood drop, do the test, you should be firmly holding his ear for as long as he will let you. I give Maury chin scratches while I do this. The pressure helps reduce bruising. You can also put a thin layer of Neosporin ointment on his ears.
 
StephG said:
Yes. Chuck got down to 9 pounds. He was 13.5 3 months before that. He is up to 11 pounds now and it took us 6 months. He is still skinny! He's put on some "fat" but not much muscle yet. I'm hoping to get him "working out" this summer and gain some muscle. One thing I have seen and learned is that when their diabetes isn't controlled and in high numbers they can't use the nutrients they're eating. I had to increase Chuck to two cans of 9Lives a day with snacks of young again. I was using chicken breast in the beginning. I also tried Fancy feast kitten pate.
Have you tried poking his cauliflower ear? I only ask because Chuck has it on his right ear too. He had 2 hematoma surgeries on that ear with the pillow stitches (I think that's what it's called). Anyway he seems to have decreased sensation in that ear and it bleeds very very easily. He also had a hematoma in his left ear but the vet just poked a hole in it and let it drain because after seeing the torture he went through in his right ear I was NOT making him have surgery again. It worked out well and looks so much better than his other ear. His left ear is sensitive. I poke him with a "1" on the poker and he still gets PO'd.
Treats are a good way to get him to see that oooh if I get poked I get a treat. It might make it easier for the times that you do decide you want to test. Chuck probably would live up to his real name, Satan, if I tried poking his little foot.
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Fluffer will only eat Fancy Feast broths now. Very occasionally he'll eat late, but has generally lost interest in wet food. I plan to try to make some recipes I looked up for him. The FF broths have pretty simple ingredients but I might need to get some vitamin supplements to add to it. The recipes I found online seem to cover vitamins with their ingredients. He isn't even really interested in any kind of dry food any more. He'll still eat kitty cat treats, but his palate has become a challenge. He even ignores catnip.
 
Wow. Ignoring cat nip! I hope your recipes please him! I don't know what I'd do with a picky eater! My civvie is a food snob but he likes friskies, lucky me!
 
StephG said:
Wow. Ignoring cat nip! I hope your recipes please him! I don't know what I'd do with a picky eater! My civvie is a food snob but he likes friskies, lucky me!
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Yeah, completely ignores it. Fluffer was high yesterday morning so when I came home I tried 3 units instead of 2.5 and when I checked later I noticed he was loopy and out of it and his levels were 369. I'm guessing maybe he's immune to insulin. It seems to have zero effect on him.

And he stopped grooming himself, and he pees in random places, like on the blanket and couch while my wife was holding him about half an hour ago. I've checked his ketones several times and it doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. And last time the vet checked he said it was something like +1 or some such. He said it wasn't a huge deal. He's completely out of it right now. I tried syringe feeding him water, not the regular syringes, the kind for actually giving water and smooshed up food. I also gave him some baby food. Not much, just about half a syringe. I just wanted him to get something in his tummy and maybe get the urge to eat more or drink more. If I pick him up his stomach makes a weird sound and sometimes he growls now when I pick him up. This all really sucks. I thought my formerly fat kitty would live forever. Now I worry if he'll make it to each new day.
 
This is how big he used to be. He's lying on one of my beds a few years ago next to my other cat Luna. Luna weighs around 12 pounds. In this picture Fluffer was around 24 pounds.
 

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I read back over your earlier posts and have a few observations.

The fact that Fluffer continues to refuse food is very worrisome. Looking back at your test results in December I don't see where a pancreatic test was done. The best one is the Specific fPLI test which is sent to an outside lab ( IDEXX) for results. This will tell whether pancreatitis is the problem and how bad it is. The vet can do a quick SNAP fPLI at their clinic which will give a "yes" or "no" answer but won't tell how bad it is if it is positive.

When a kitty is nauseous they will not want to eat. With pancreatitis treatment is anti-nausea med such as cerenis and pain relief such as buprenorphine. If he is dehydrated they will give sub Q fluids. An appetite stimulant will not help if he is nauseous.

Since it has been a while since your last lab work and the eating problems are continuing I would suggest another full set of blood work and have the fPLI test done. This lack of eating can lead to liver problems which can be serious.

Sending prayers for you and Fluffer :bighug::bighug::bighug:


ETA Also you had mentioned that Fluffer had some bad dental issues. If there is inflammation or infection this will make it very difficult for him to eat. If there are no other conditions that show up with a new set of bloodwork then a dental would be suspect as part of the cause of not eating,
 
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My wife wants to have him put to sleep. It's not her family member. I had Fluffer since 2004. My wife only since 2013. I do 99.99% of all the pet caring for both kitties. She has yet to do the litter once in four years. She thinks he's suffering, and he probably is, but if the vet says there's hope then I like to think he could get better. I really think if Fluffer wants to go he should make that decision, not me. I love him too much to have him "put down".
 
acsmith1972 said:
My wife wants to have him put to sleep. It's not her family member. I had Fluffer since 2004. My wife only since 2013. I do 99.99% of all the pet caring for both kitties. She has yet to do the litter once in four years. She thinks he's suffering, and he probably is, but if the vet says there's hope then I like to think he could get better. I really think if Fluffer wants to go he should make that decision, not me. I love him too much to have him "put down".
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I have two FD kitties. One has a lot of other health concerns and has been very sick a few times. I considered the PTS at one point 2 years ago, because I didn't want him suffering needlessly if he wasn't going to improve. But a part of me wanted to make sure I had done everything I possibly could to give him a chance for more time with good quality. I'm glad I chose that route. I am always aware of how he is doing and if he "tells" me that his life is no longer worth fighting for, THEN I will make that decision. When he or his sister finally goes I will know that it was their time and not something that I decided because they were becoming too much of a problem.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I wish I had tons of money. I'd have my kitty get round the clock care. I work crazy hours and still can't afford much. The vet called. He's going to see Fluffer all day Monday. He said he could be insulin resistance if that's the case there's nothing we can do, but he also said there are other insulins, dosages, etc, but the biggest thing is Fluffer needs to eat. So he's leaving a pill for me to get later for him. I think it's something like Metaxa, or maybe that's the wrong name. Anyway, last few times I gave it to Fluffer he snapped right out of it and ate like a piggy. I'm hoping that works. I can't get it to him till tonight so my poor kitty is going to be sick all day. The peeing thing is really testing my patience. I have to admit that. If it were just me I'd put more litter boxes on every floor but that might be an issue. I may still do that anyway. He shouldn't have to go down two flights to go pee. I already have water and food on all three floors, but the laundry room is also the litter room. He also seems to hate the soft pine litter which I love. There's zero smell. Same with the cedar one. He prefers Cat's Pride which is a pain to clean. If I had my own place I'd build an enclosure in the yard with a separate litter area, a giant sand box. I just really hope he fights this, too.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I wish I had tons of money.
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Don't we all! Feel like Vet's think we do :mad: and if not we're terrible owners.
acsmith1972 said:
He said he could be insulin resistance if that's the case there's nothing we can do
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There are a few other high dose kitties on the forum. You're only up to 3U and I don't think that's a high dose if he is insulin resistant.

acsmith1972 said:
The peeing thing is really testing my patience. I have to admit that. If it were just me I'd put more litter boxes on every floor but that might be an issue. I may still do that anyway. He shouldn't have to go down two flights to go pee.
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Around month 2, Maury peed in my bed and on the sofa twice. I got another litter box for the main floor because I don't think he could make it to the basement from upstairs (down 2 flights also) and no further issues. Just in case, I do have the sofas covered with plastic shower liners. Maintaining a 2nd litter box was more affordable than having to buy a new sofa.

acsmith1972 said:
If I pick him up his stomach makes a weird sound and sometimes he growls now when I pick him up.
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Wondering if he has some IBS/IBD issues and picking him up might hurt a little. I think there is a way to test for it. @Phoebes Angela, how did you get Phoebes tested for her gastrointestinal issue? Did she have a decreased appetite? Was there a test the Vet did? If you could chime in for acsith1972 :)
 
Yong said:
Don't we all! Feel like Vet's think we do :mad: and if not we're terrible owners.
There are a few other high dose kitties on the forum. You're only up to 3U and I don't think that's a high dose if he is insulin resistant.


Around month 2, Maury peed in my bed and on the sofa twice. I got another litter box for the main floor because I don't think he could make it to the basement from upstairs (down 2 flights also) and no further issues. Just in case, I do have the sofas covered with plastic shower liners. Maintaining a 2nd litter box was more affordable than having to buy a new sofa.


Wondering if he has some IBS/IBD issues and picking him up might hurt a little. I think there is a way to test for it. @Phoebes Angela, how did you get Phoebes tested for her gastrointestinal issue? Did she have a decreased appetite? Was there a test the Vet did? If you could chime in for acsith1972 :)
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It was over time, with her hard stools then runny stools. We tried miralax but that turned her stool black and tarry (thought it was blood but tested negative), loss of appetite, we switched to benefiber which helped. ultrasound saw thickening of the intestinal wall xrays determined unending poops, her belly makes some gawd aweful gurgling noises sometimes. I dont remember a specific blood test, just a series of those symptoms. After 3 enemas in 4 months, vet said it was safe to say she had IBD. We have added the 100 % organic pumpkin 1/8 of a tsp 2x a day and she has pooped more (normal) poops in the last 5 months than she has her whole life. Thank goodness for poop!! :)
 
acsmith1972 said:
I decided to go a little higher. I normally do two units twice daily, so I did 2.5 but it's really hard to get that close with these syringes. They measure units not halves or quarters. I really thought tonight was it for him. He still can't seem to get above 11 1/2 pounds and normal for him is 23 pounds. Holding him now feels weird after years of having a Garfield. He was much happier fat, but now we're where we are because he's such a piggie. My other cat eats an appropriate amount. She weighs around the same but she's much smaller so she looks healthy. She eats when she's hungry, he eats when there's food. Or he used to. I was hoping he'd gain 5 pounds back, but my wife tells me once diabetics lose weight it never comes back. I hope that's not true, he's scrwany now. You can see all his ribs. I wound up having to force feed him water and food tonight. He's managing by himself right now, but it was touch and go for a while.
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Phoebe was a 21 pound fluff muffin, she started loosing weight 2 years ago, when the IBD started. She had lost 6 pounds in a year abd a half. Then pancreatitis started and she just kept loosing no matter how much we fed her. She got down to 11.7 pounds then had a 3 day stay in hospital. Found out she had pancreatitis was given steroid for inflammation for both. Was on steroids 7 days abd developed diabetes. That was Jan 2017. Just went to the vets and she weighs almost 13 pounds. It can be done. It takes patience. And alot of shaking your head and worry. They can get better, they can gain it back. When she feels better we play to gain her muscle mass back. But if there are stresses it causes a flare up. Then we hit pause, treat flare ups and continue our march.
 
I'll definitely give the pumpkin stuff a try if it's helpful no matter what. I know he poops, he never covers them any more. He also mostly stopped grooming. On occasion he does his face, though not lately. I'm guessing his gurgling tummy is a combination of not enough food and no water so it's all acidy. He drinks water, just not these last few days, but his tummy makes the sound on sick days when he doesn't drink. Hopefully the pill later helps. And hopefully Monday the vet finds the magic number for insulin. Seeing him shrink smaller than my tiny cat was kind of scary. I probably missed the early signs with him being fluffy from being part Maine Coon and all. I didn't see him lose weight at first and fat is fat so even at like 18 pounds he still felt really heavy. What's amazing is how fast they lose the weight. Maybe doctors can figure out how and help obese people.
 
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