Buddy's SS up and going 4th part about dosing

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I've been reading through Buddy's story and looking at his SS, and don't get discouraged - you are doing great! My Leo was a Lantus boy before he went off the juice and was a *very* bouncy boy, but my mom is joining FDMB and her cat was just put on Prozinc, so I'm learning the difference between the two insulins by reading some spreadsheets. Bouncing is a challenge to deal with, but all that data really helps you make better decisions. Good luck and keep it up!

Lisa
 
It's really good that you're experimenting, Teresa and doing it cautiously. This is exactly how we learn to figure out doses. Let's see what the 0.75 u gives you today. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
It's really good that you're experimenting, Teresa and doing it cautiously. This is exactly how we learn to figure out doses. Let's see what the 0.75 u gives you today. :)
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What would you have given.
Lisa & Leo said:
I've been reading through Buddy's story and looking at his SS, and don't get discouraged - you are doing great! My Leo was a Lantus boy before he went off the juice and was a *very* bouncy boy, but my mom is joining FDMB and heKat cat was just put on Prozinc, so I'm learning the difference between the two insulins by reading some spreadsheets. Bouncing is a challenge to deal with, but all that data really helps you make better decisions. Good luck and keep it up!

Lisa
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Lisa & Leo,
Lisa is 1 of my favorite names, that is my daughter's name. Good for you and for Leo that he is OTJ. Leo looks like my cat Kitty Kat. Kitty Kat is my only cat that does not have a health problem (hope he stays that way ). Does Leo have any FIV+ related symptoms. I also have a FIV+kitty his name is Old Guy. I give Guy Lactoferrin & a Probiotic daily. Good luck to your Mom and her kitty.
 
I might have tried 2 u based on other numbers in your SS. However, you have to be comfortable in what you're doing. When I was learning I was far more cautious than I am now. I know Teasel's responses really well and I know how closely I can shave it while still keeping him safe. I still make mistakes though and Teasel will surprise me often.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I might have tried 2 u based on other numbers in your SS. However, you have to be comfortable in what you're doing. When I was learning I was far more cautious than I am now. I know Teasel's responses really well and I know how closely I can shave it while still keeping him safe. I still make mistakes though and Teasel will surprise me often.
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I think I was too cautious @+6 his BG was 381, this just makes me sick. Worried about his BG numbers being high for a long time. When I talked to 1 of his doctors, she said he should always at least 2u every shoot. Maybe she was right. The Doctor who did his surgery wanted him to come in for a curve, but I talked him into letting me e-mail his SS, when he sees how I am doing he will probably make Buddy come in. My fear about Buddy going in that they will dose him too high.
 
wolfey said:
I think I was too cautious @+6 his BG was 381, this just makes me sick. Worried about his BG numbers being high for a long time. When I talked to 1 of his doctors, she said he should always at least 2u every shoot. Maybe she was right. The Doctor who did his surgery wanted him to come in for a curve, but I talked him into letting me e-mail his SS, when he sees how I am doing he will probably make Buddy come in. My fear about Buddy going in that they will dose him too high.
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Buddy's treatment is yours to control, Teresa. The vet can advise but he/she won't be the one worrying if he goes too low.

For now you can use 2 u as your baseline or minimum dose. When in doubt give 2 u. He likely needs more than that if his PS is pink or higher. These guidelines can change but that should work for now.
 
wolfey said:
What would you have given.

Lisa & Leo,
Lisa is 1 of my favorite names, that is my daughter's name. Good for you and for Leo that he is OTJ. Leo looks like my cat Kitty Kat. Kitty Kat is my only cat that does not have a health problem (hope he stays that way ). Does Leo have any FIV+ related symptoms. I also have a FIV+kitty his name is Old Guy. I give Guy Lactoferrin & a Probiotic daily. Good luck to your Mom and her kitty.
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Thank you! No, Leo doesn't show any symptoms of FIV yet. He is still pretty young, and we just make sure his diabetes is controlled and gets good food, and he gets B12 shots. Hugs to Old Guy and I hope he lives a long life with you!
 
I see you upped his dose tonight because he was higher. The higher BG was likely because his AM dose was low. Good call. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Buddy's treatment is yours to control, Teresa. The vet can advise but he/she won't be the one worrying if he goes too low.

For now you can use 2 u as your baseline or minimum dose. When in doubt give 2 u. He likely needs more than that if his PS is pink or higher. These guidelines can change but that should work for now.
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I hope that I have not messed up again with Buddy's dose.
I am so worried about Buddy, I don't know what to do most of the time. He has been through so much in the last 60 days and was even feeling bad before that. I'm afraid I will cause him problems with his health unnecessarily. Today I ran some errands when I came back home, in his litter box their was a very large wet spot that almost looked water had been spilled in it.
 
wolfey said:
I hope that I have not messed up again with Buddy's dose.
I am so worried about Buddy, I don't know what to do most of the time. He has been through so much in the last 60 days and was even feeling bad before that. I'm afraid I will cause him problems with his health unnecessarily. Today I ran some errands when I came back home, in his litter box their was a very large wet spot that almost looked water had been spilled in it.
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You're doing fine, Teresa. Focus on the fact that he's feeling better since the surgery. That large pee spot in the litter box is from him still being in high-ish numbers most of the time. That will improve when his numbers are consistently lower.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I see you upped his dose tonight because he was higher. The higher BG was likely because his AM dose was low. Good call. :)
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I really was not sure what to dose, your post helped a lot. Kept thinking I should go higher, but I am afraid of bouncing. If he keeps bouncing I will never get his BG under control. Buddy has already lost part of his pancreas, I don't know if he could lose any more.
 
wolfey said:
I really was not sure what to dose, your post helped a lot. Kept thinking I should go higher, but I am afraid of bouncing. If he keeps bouncing I will never get his BG under control. Buddy has already lost part of his pancreas, I don't know if he could lose any more.
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Unfortunately, bouncing is hard to control. Some cats bounce and some don't. Some bounce a lot. Many bounce less as they get into lower BGs more of the time. Your best bet is to pay attention to mid cycle numbers when deciding on a dose and give less importance to the PS numbers that are often higher than they should be because of bouncing.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You're doing fine, Teresa. Focus on the fact that he's feeling better since the surgery. That large pee spot in the litter box is from him still being in high-ish numbers most of the time. That will improve when his numbers are consistently lower.
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I need to start getting his numbers under control, maybe that would be by paying attention to mid cycle numbers. This is how my luck goes, I was waiting at Buddy's litter box to get a sample for a ketone check (since he has been peeing a lot) and my Mother said to me it is time for Red's medicine. I got up and walked into the other room, when I did Buddy peed in his litter box. Buddy's numbers are too high, maybe he needs a higher dose in the morning and less at night. I am baffled and worried about Buddy.
 
Two reasons for his high numbers today: 1. low dose this AM and 2. bouncing from the blues yesterday. Wait to see tomorrow's AMPS before thinking about what dose to give next.
 
Good choice of AM dose Teresa. :) I see that he dropped to green late last night/very early AM. You might see some higher bounce numbers today because of it. Don't worry abut them.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Good choice of AM dose Teresa. :) I see that he dropped to green late last night/very early AM. You might see some higher bounce numbers today because of it. Don't worry abut them.
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I am thinking about getting more aggressive with Buddy's dosing. How long did it take to get Teasel numbers under control.
 
wolfey said:
I am thinking about getting more aggressive with Buddy's dosing. How long did it take to get Teasel numbers under control.
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I never got Teasel under control. He bounces all over the place. I just did the best I could dose wise with the ProZinc and decided to change to Lantus two weeks ago. It's early days but he seems a bit less bouncy on Lantus.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I never got Teasel under control. He bounces all over the place. I just did the best I could dose wise with the ProZinc and decided to change to Lantus two weeks ago. It's early days but he seems a bit less bouncy on Lantus.
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I have wondered about Lantus, my daughter takes Lantus, she says it is only good for 30 days. Buying every 30 days could get pricey. I do hate the bouncing, it scares me because Buddy shows no signs of being low. This AMPS Buddy was high, I gave a dose that was not large and at +5 he was @84. It seems that you never know what to do.
 
Hi Teresa. I have seen reference on the forum fairly frequently that people buy their Lantus from Canada for something like 1/3 of the cost. They also buy the pens instead of the vial. Do a search or maybe look at the stickys at the top of the Lantus forum.
 
Pati said:
Hi Teresa. I have seen reference on the forum fairly frequently that people buy their Lantus from Canada for something like 1/3 of the cost. They also buy the pens instead of the vial. Do a search or maybe look at the stickys at the top of the Lantus forum.
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How are you. Right now Buddy is taking ProZinc, but I am seriously wondering about Lantus. I appreciate your reply about Lantus.
 
wolfey said:
How are you. Right now Buddy is taking ProZinc, but I am seriously wondering about Lantus. I appreciate your reply about Lantus.
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Morris and I are good. I think you and Buddy are doing great. Buddy was diagnosed in January wasn't it? Morris and I have been figuring out the sugar dance since September. And we didn't have a major surgery like Buddy had to have. I have my frustrated days occasionally too so I know how you feel. Others can advise you about changing insulin. I just wanted to mention what I had read on the forum about purchasing it in case you ever did switch. I'm not sure they have any easier time getting to good numbers. There are still the too lows and bouncing with all types of insulin from what I've read.
 
wolfey said:
I have wondered about Lantus, my daughter takes Lantus, she says it is only good for 30 days. Buying every 30 days could get pricey. I do hate the bouncing, it scares me because Buddy shows no signs of being low. This AMPS Buddy was high, I gave a dose that was not large and at +5 he was @84. It seems that you never know what to do.
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That 84 is a really good number - not too low. You fed higher carb food to keep him from going lower so he was safe. When you're using a human meter like yours, the worry starts when he goes to 50 or below. That's hypo territory.

Re Lantus: there's no guarantee that it will solve the bouncing problem and it's very expensive in the US. Many there buy it from a Canadian pharmacy where it's much cheaper. It can be bought in packs of 5 cartridges (for the Lantus pen) that are usually good for up to 2 years if stored properly. Each cartridge once opened is good for several months if handled/stored properly. The rules for humans are stricter.
 
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Kris & Teasel said:
That 84 is a really good number - not too low. You fed higher carb food to keep him from going lower so he was safe. When you're using a human meter like yours, the worry starts when he goes to 50 or below. That's hypo territory.

Re Lantus: there's no guarantee that it will solve the bouncing problem and it's very expensive in the US. Many there buy it from a Canadian pharmacy where it's much cheaper. It can be bought in packs of 5 cartridges (for the Lantus pen) that are usually good for up to 2 years if stored properly. Each cartridge once opened is good for several months if handles/stored properly. The rules for humans are stricter.
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Buddy BG has been @50 a few times. When I can see he is starting to go low, I give him RC wet to keep him from going too low. Does every insulin have a bouncing problem.
 
wolfey said:
Buddy BG has been @50 a few times. When I can see he is starting to go low, I give him RC wet to keep him from going too low. Does every insulin have a bouncing problem.
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Yes, they can bounce on any insulin but the longer lasting insulins like Lantus and Levemir will sometimes by helpful to reduce it in some cats.
 
"Data Base" I love that, Kris and plan to "borrow" it.

Teresa, I know it feels like you have been doing this forever, but think how much you have learned in such a short time. I hope it is a little less scary and you are feeling more confident. You have kept him safe and happy!
 
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Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
"Data Base" I love that, Kris and plan to "borrow" it.

Teresa, I know it feels like you have been doing this forever, but think how much you have learned in such a short time. I hope it is a little less scary and you are feeling more confident. You have kept him safe and happy!
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Have you looked at Buddy's SS today, we has @AMPS +6 BG59. Something happened earlier with 1 of my other cats, or I would have been on top of this and not have let it get to that point. Looking for a big bounce tonight, just what I did not want.
 
wolfey said:
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Have you looked at Buddy's SS today, we has @AMPS +6 BG59. Something happened earlier with 1 of my other cats, or I would have been on top of this and not have let it get to that point. Looking for a big bounce tonight, just what I did not want.
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Just saw this Teresa. It's actually a nice number. you use a human meter and the "intervention required " number is 50. Did you give him some higher carb food to get him back up to 90? If these greens worry you, drop his dose to 2.25 u tonight. He'll be a bit more insulin sensitive after these lows.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Just saw this Teresa. It's actually a nice number. you use a human meter and the "intervention required " number is 50. Did you give him some higher carb food to get him back up to 90? If these greens worry you, drop his dose to 2.25 u tonight. He'll be a bit more insulin sensitive after these lows.
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I almost gave him 2.25u this morning, because his BG reading seemed a little less than it had been. First I gave him about 1/2 can of RC wet, it came up but went back down. Buddy then got his favorite food FF grilled w/gravy and he had about 1/2 can of that. His numbers started coming up with the FF. I wish his numbers had been caught before they got that low. Looking for a lot of bouncing, which is what we don't need.
 
wolfey said:
I almost gave him 2.25u this morning, because his BG reading seemed a little less than it had been. First I gave him about 1/2 can of RC wet, it came up but went back down. Buddy then got his favorite food FF grilled w/gravy and he had about 1/2 can of that. His numbers started coming up with the FF. I wish his numbers had been caught before they got that low. Looking for a lot of bouncing, which is what we don't need.
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You'll figure it out, Teresa. After a while, you'll be able to predict bouncing , have a better idea on how to dose around it and it won't cause you so much anxiety.
 
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Everything scared me when I first got here too! That's natural...it's because you love Buddy so much.
 
The red this AM is probably one of two things or both together: 1. a lower dose last night and/or 2. bouncing from the recent greens.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
The red this AM is probably one of two things or both together: 1. a lower dose last night and/or 2. bouncing from the recent greens.
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Last night he did not want to eat, I was afraid he would not eat enough for his dose. Today I thought about a higher dose, just was not sure what to do. I have a appointment tomorrow, hope I can get things turned around by then.
 
wolfey said:
Last night he did not want to eat, I was afraid he would not eat enough for his dose. Today I thought about a higher dose, just was not sure what to do. I have a appointment tomorrow, hope I can get things turned around by then.
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You could try 2.25 u this AM but if you're worried, go with 2 u.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
You could try 2.25 u this AM but if you're worried, go with 2 u.
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I gave him 2.5u a little while ago. I will see what today holds. I tried to go low last night because he did not want to eat. I really appreciate you being there with suggestions, sometimes I just do not know what to do.
 
wolfey said:
I gave him 2.5u a little while ago. I will see what today holds. I tried to go low last night because he did not want to eat. I really appreciate you being there with suggestions, sometimes I just do not know what to do.
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Glad to help when I can, Teresa. I think you're getting a handle on this yourself. Good work! :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Glad to help when I can, Teresa. I think you're getting a handle on this yourself. Good work! :)
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I went back today and looked at the conversion chart to convert from U-40 to U-100, to me it seems as though it should be just the opposite of what it is. Thinking about being able to give lower dose or an added dose.
 
wolfey said:
I went back today and looked at the conversion chart to convert from U-40 to U-100, to me it seems as though it should be just the opposite of what it is. Thinking about being able to give lower dose or an added dose.
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Are you thinking of trying U100 syringes so you can dose in smaller fractions? If you are the least bit confused about doing this, post for help before you do.
 
wolfey said:
I have been thinking about doing this for a while, not for sure because to me it seems backwards.
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ProZinc (U40) is a more diluted insulin that Lantus (U100). That means it takes more space in a U100 syringe built for a concentrated insulin. That is, it takes a larger amount of ProZinc to have the same number of units in it as the same dose of Lantus.
 
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