19 Feb: Teasel (AT): +2 59 | +2.5 61 | +3 65 | +4 95 | +5 135 | +6 160 | + 8 153 | PM 212

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Doodles & Karen said:
FWIW, Doodles will come down from the carbs about 3 hrs or so afterwards. But he's a strange Dood. You're also in the second 1/2 of the cycle now so that alone will likely slow Teasel down.
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This has been one heckuva data gathering experience! If I understood you correctly from your previous post (#48) Doodles would bottom out early and thus earned a reduction based on those early numbers. The early bottoming is new to me. I know what you mean by feeding LC at +1 to forestall an early drop.

What I need to have clear in my head is how to achieve a level of dosing that doesn't require constant testing and food steering early in a cycle every day to avert a low green. That can happen, of course, but finding a dose that gives good numbers without this daily requirement would be a worthwhile goal. Maybe I'm dreaming?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
There might be green today - just hope it's dark green and not lime green! :cool::nailbiting:
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Hey Kris hope the day goes well with Teasel :) I'm also getting use to shooting low and Tinka surfing low. It can be really stressful with monitoring at times but it's actually so great to see them in greens for longer as its so healing. I was just looking at your SS and noticed something different. Your dark green BG column at the top only goes down to 3.8 and then your lime green is 3.8 and under. While my spreadsheet which Chris set up and I think all the others iv seen the dark green BG column goes down to 2.7 (which is 50 in US). Then lime green is only under 2.7 as that indicates a hypo and a dose reduction. Just wanted to bring it up in case your SS needs that to be changed? I'm not experienced on here just noticed it's different. My understanding is that you only earn a reduction if under 2.7 (50) and that's for TR. Maybe on SLGS it's different.
 
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TanyaG said:
Hey Kris hope the day goes well with Teasel :) I'm also getting use to shooting low and Tinka surfing low. It can be really stressful with monitoring at times but it's actually so great to see them in greens for longer as its so healing. I was just looking at your SS and noticed something different. Your dark green BG column at the top only goes down to 3.8 rather and then your line green is anything under 3.8. While my spreadsheet which Chris set up and I think all the others iv seen the dark green BG column goes down to 2.7. Then lime green is only under 2.7 as that indicates a hypo and a dose reduction. Just wanted to bring it up in case your SS needs that to be changed? I'm not experienced on here just noticed it's different. My understanding is that you only earn a reduction if under 2.7 and that's for TR. Maybe on SLGS it's different.
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I use an AlphaTrak pet meter and the lime green cut off points are different. The low BG intervention is 50 (2.8) with a human meter and 68 (3.8) with a pet meter because the pet meter reads higher. Teasel was as low as 3.3 on the pet meter this AM so he's earned a reduction on that basis. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I use an AlphaTrak pet meter and the lime green cut off points are different. The low BG intervention is 50 (2.8) with a human meter and 68 (3.8) with a pet meter because the pet meter reads higher. Teasel was as low as 3.3 on the pet meter this AM so he's earned a reduction on that basis. :)
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Ah right thank you for clarifying that makes sense it's good to know :) Hope the rest of the day goes really well!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
What I need to have clear in my head is how to achieve a level of dosing that doesn't require constant testing and food steering early in a cycle every day to avert a low green. That can happen, of course, but finding a dose that gives good numbers without this daily requirement would be a worthwhile goal. Maybe I'm dreaming?
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This is exactly what I'm trying to understand too! My dose is giving Tinka great values but requires a lot of monitoring and steering with LC which is difficult to do every day. Would love to know the answer to your question too. Lol maybe I'm dream too :)
 
TanyaG said:
This is exactly what I'm trying to understand too! My dose is giving Tinka great values but requires a lot of monitoring and steering with LC which is difficult to do every day. Would love to know the answer to your question too. Lol maybe I'm dream too :)
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I posted this but, really, I know the answer: revise your BG goals to aim for slightly higher numbers most of the time - eg. low blues through much of a cycle versus safe greens. Aim to find a dose that puts them in good but a little less than optimal numbers.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
That can happen, of course, but finding a dose that gives good numbers without this daily requirement would be a worthwhile goal. Maybe I'm dreaming?
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Insulin is a hormone, not a drug and they are cats ;) Doodles "snapped" 12/9/2015 as they call it on Lantus, stopped bouncing and went all green earning reductions by staying green for 7 days. It's hard to keep the cats in the "range" we all desire (assuming mostly blue?) It also depends on your goal. SLGS, reductions are taken at 90 and you shoot anything above 90. That wouldn't have helped you today though. TR reductions are taken under 68 in your case with AT and you would work your way to shooting anything over 68 or above.

Teasel showed you some nice flat cycles...it would be great to see him turn flat green & blue. Remission is likely far out of your mind, but I wouldn't discount it if I were you or at least a nice tightly regulated cat. He response to Lantus has been very positive IMO.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Insulin is a hormone, not a drug and they are cats ;) Doodles "snapped" 12/9/2015 as they call it on Lantus, stopped bouncing and went all green earning reductions by staying green for 7 days. It's hard to keep the cats in the "range" we all desire (assuming mostly blue?) It also depends on your goal. SLGS, reductions are taken at 90 and you shoot anything above 90. That wouldn't have helped you today though. TR reductions are taken under 68 in your case with AT and you would work your way to shooting anything over 68 or above.

Teasel showed you some nice flat cycles...it would be great to see him turn flat green & blue. Remission is likely far out of your mind, but I wouldn't discount it if I were you or at least a nice tightly regulated cat. He response to Lantus has been very positive IMO.
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I didn't mean to seem defeatist, Karen. Just reacting to the morning's excitement. The response I've seen yesterday and today has really surprised me! I'd like to get Mr. T. as well regulated as I can even if remission isn't in the cards. Time and more data/experience will make me more at ease with numbers like these. :)
 
Great cycle today and congrats on the reduction.:D

The other solution to less monitoring is to learn thy cat. With Neko, if her nadirs were in the 70's (human meter), she didn't bounce as much and kept reasonably flat cycles. So that was my target. As much as a lot of people would love a flat blue cat, it's much easier to achieve a flat cat with some green in the picture.

Speaking of learning your cat, Teasel's cycle today is a good teaching tool. With Lantus (and Levemir), it helps to look at look at more than one cycle to try to find patterns, and hence more predictability. Many cats there will have a flat yellow or flat blue cycle preceding a cycle of action. Teasel's flat blue last night was a good heads-up. I can't rememeber exactly what the pattern was now (been 4 years) but when Neko was on Lantus if I saw two cycles in a row of a certain type, the one following would be a low dive.

The other concept you may or may not be familiar with is "shooting through the bounce". If by any chance Teasel were to wildly bounce by PMPS, you can shoot the old 3.0 unit dose one more time, before shooting the reduced dose tomorrow. The hope is that the one time at a higher dose will help cut the knees off the bounce a bit.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Great cycle today and congrats on the reduction.:D

The other solution to less monitoring is to learn thy cat. With Neko, if her nadirs were in the 70's (human meter), she didn't bounce as much and kept reasonably flat cycles. So that was my target. As much as a lot of people would love a flat blue cat, it's much easier to achieve a flat cat with some green in the picture.

Speaking of learning your cat, Teasel's cycle today is a good teaching tool. With Lantus (and Levemir), it helps to look at look at more than one cycle to try to find patterns, and hence more predictability. Many cats there will have a flat yellow or flat blue cycle preceding a cycle of action. Teasel's flat blue last night was a good heads-up. I can't rememeber exactly what the pattern was now (been 4 years) but when Neko was on Lantus if I saw two cycles in a row of a certain type, the one following would be a low dive.

The other concept you may or may not be familiar with is "shooting through the bounce". If by any chance Teasel were to wildly bounce by PMPS, you can shoot the old 3.0 unit dose one more time, before shooting the reduced dose tomorrow. The hope is that the one time at a higher dose will help cut the knees off the bounce a bit.
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Great info, Wendy! Yes, I've read about shooting through the bounce.
 
Nice cycle and congrats on the reduction! This is what you what, for them to start needing less insulin and start earning reductions and unfortunately it is done with some nail biting stress on us and some PJ parties. So, thank Teasel for doing this during the daytime. Nice kitty. :cat:

I might be a little weird but, I loved cycles like this one and would hope for the reduction unless he had just had one and it would be too soon, then I would feed the curve to keep him from dropping too low so he wouldn't bounce like crazy.

Teasel is looking so good on Lantus. :)
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nice cycle and congrats on the reduction! This is what you what, for them to start needing less insulin and start earning reductions and unfortunately it is done with some nail biting stress on us and some PJ parties. So, thank Teasel for doing this during the daytime. Nice kitty. :cat:

I might be a little weird but, I loved cycles like this one and would hope for the reduction unless he had just had one and it would be too soon, then I would feed the curve to keep him from dropping too low so he wouldn't bounce like crazy.

Teasel is looking so good on Lantus. :)
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He surprised the ----- out of me Bobbie! I hope this continues ... :smuggrin:
 
Doodles & Karen said:
One more thing to be aware of. It takes 4-6 cycles for the depot to drain. He's looking good and no bounce yet:)
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So that means that this larger depot from the 3 u dose will have a residual effect after I decrease his dose to 2.75 u tonight, right? The next 4 to 6 cycles will be under the influence of what was a larger depot than a 2.75 u dose would create, hence the effect of a dose slightly larger than 2.75 u. Correct thinking?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
So that means that this larger depot from the 3 u dose will have a residual effect after I decrease his dose to 2.75 u tonight, right? The next 4 to 6 cycles will be under the influence of what was a larger depot than a 2.75 u dose would create, hence the effect of a dose slightly larger than 2.75 u. Correct thinking?
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Correct, you got it. That is why back to back reduction aren't a good idea. Because the action of the larger depot at play gives the appearance of another needed reduction and then the numbers go back up.

That is why I said in my previous post that if it were too soon to give another reduction, I would feed the curve to help surf and help to reduce some bouncing from numbers going too low again. And that said, some kitties will fly down the dosing ladder and need back to back reduction ( Bubba did have a few very close together that held)
 
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Well, we're into yellow. It's not a high yellow so I didn't think this was a "shoot through the bounce" situation. He might well get on his trampoline but a bit later. That l-o-n-g streak of blue was great to show that it's possible. :)
 
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