Hypoglycemic cat - going to ER

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Thanks, BJM, got it! Also, that gives me another question for the doc, is Lantus short acting insulin...
O m g what a cute face!!!! Welcome to the best message board, people in the world. As they told me in here, it's a marathon not a sprint race. Patience and be gentle on yourself. I still spend all day reading the info!
 
Your meter is fine. Your measurements are and should be in mg/dl. :) You had quite the baptism by fire the other day. If you are concerned about your meter, try it on yourself. Some meters will give you strange readings (the 245 vs. 30) if there is an insufficient blood sample or the battery is weak so you might want to change the battery to be sure. See how big a sample your meter requires and consider a human meter needing a smaller sample if need be.



Lantus is a long acting depot insulin so feeding main meals with shots and snacks in between shots often helps keep kitty on a more even keel. The snacks ensure there is food on board as the insulin is working throughout the cycle.
Hello MrWorfmen's mom...I will always remember all your help with Elliott..THANK YOU AGAIN!
 
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[QUOTE="MrWorfmen's Mom, post: Your meter is fine. Your measurements are and should be in mg/dl. :) You had quite the baptism by fire the other day. If you are concerned about your meter, try it on yourself. Some meters will give you strange readings (the 245 vs. 30) if there is an insufficient blood sample or the battery is weak so you might want to change the battery to be sure. See how big a sample your meter requires and consider a human meter needing a smaller sample if need be. [/QUOTE]

MrWorfmen's Mom, I did, it was horrifying! I ended up taking the meter with me to the vet and compared it to the AlphaTrack they use. It was about 15 mg/dl higher than the AlphaTrack. So, I'm using it and not the AlphaTrack. Thanks for the tips on the meter and re: lantus. We did take my husband's BG and it was within the human range.

So, weirdly, I have only given one shot of insulin in the past 4 days. Kitter's BG has been up to 200 once, that was when the vet advised I give him a shot, since then it has been 107 and 148, so no shots. We are monitoring it daily. I am still giving him the herbs the doc gave me and he is strictly on wet food now. We are going to start making him a raw food diet (I get the grinder today), so hopefully all of this will keep him off the insulin.
 
Good luck with the raw diet. Hopefully that might pull Kitter's numbers down a bit more. Just keep an eye on him because the 148 is still a tiny bit high and sometimes these guys need micro doses for a short period to get them and keep their numbers down. Finger crossed for you and Kitter!
 
MICRODOSING is a "relative" measurement..to the reduction of any drug being used by a significant amount. I do not believe it is listed as an official measurement. Some people suggested using a caliper and researchers can use mass and mm to measure..very complicated.. We bought one for $60. and found that it only lets you set it at a certain point to place NEXT to the syringe for consistent measurement ?? I used it once and placed it right back in the box. Whoever suggested microdosing should be able to explain the dosing. I surely cannot!!! Apparently, it's being studied to see if works at the cellular level producing good or better results than the normal dose..Some experiments use .1 of the normal dose to see if results at the cellular sites match or supercede a normal dosing. I suppose IF 1 unit of insulin was 6 gtts, then decrease the number of gtts to 2 gtts for .33u or whatever. That's how I would do it. I concluded that # of gtts depends on how you hold the syringe (up or down) and how fast you push the gtts out. My measuring of gtts, for hours, really did not leave me confident as to accuracy...but used the gtt method for .25 units. Good Luck!!! Let us know what you learn!!
 
Hi Sheli! We should really be having this conversation on the Health Forum, but I wanted to try to provide you with some simple answers to your questions where you'd find them.
My syringes smallest measurement is 1 unit of a u-100 .3 ml. Should I purchase a smaller syringe measurement just in case I need a micro dose?
Yes. When using Lantus, most of us use U-100 syringes marked with half units because dose adjustments are generally made in increments of 0.25 unit. It's just easier to eyeball a quarter unit when you have half unit markings. Half unit syringes have the smallest measurement readily available to us. There are no syringes marked in quarter units or less.

U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus or Levemir from vials, cartridges, and pens. BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn (Walmart) are just some of the brands available with half unit markings. Needle gauge and length is your preference. Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest).
p.s. What is a micro dose?
A micro-dose is simply a dose which is less than a half unit. Some people eye-ball the dose. Some use calipers to measure doses. Some count the number of drops in a unit to figure out tiny doses.
Here are some examples of how to figure out fine dosing:


Fine Dose Pictorial Guide

Fine dose gradations:
  • 0.5U = exactly half a unit
  • 0.4U = skinny 0.5 touching the line
  • 0.3U = skinny 0.5 with daylight under the line
  • 0.2U = fat zero with daylight over the line
  • 0.1U = fat zero barely touching the line
Pictorial guide using a U-100 syringe marked with half units :

someinsulin-1.jpg
01unit-1.jpg

025unit-1.jpg
5e86c3d4.jpg


When it comes to micro-dosing, there's no way of knowing if the dose is entirely accurate. For example, my 0.25u dose and your 0.25u dose may not be exactly the same... and that's ok. What's important is consistency... replicating that same dose (same amount of insulin) so you can consistently shoot the same dose as long as kitty is getting that particular dose.
Measuring fine doses (micro-doses) and more can be found in the LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SYRINGE & INSULIN INFO: HANDLING, DRAWING, & FINE DOSES sticky.

At what # would I want to give a micro dose?
No one can give you a specific BG number where you'd give a "micro-dose" when using Lantus because Lantus dosing is based on nadirs (how low the dose is dropping kitty) with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

As kitty is methodically and systematically coming down the dosing scale after "earned" reductions, eventually the caregiver will find themselves measuring doses which are less than a half unit.

The next thing to set up now is thspreadsheet.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Download Google Sheets, then our template.
I agree with Janet. How about setting up a spreadsheet for Kitter? If you need help just holler.


Since this forum is strictly for welcoming new members, let's move over to the Health Forum. Your questions will receive more exposure on Health. See you there!

Once you have a spreadsheet set up, please join us in the Lantus & Levemir Insulin Support Group! :)


 
Hi Sheli! We should really be having this conversation on the Health Forum, but I wanted to try to provide you with some simple answers to your questions where you'd find them.

Yes. When using Lantus, most of us use U-100 syringes marked with half units because dose adjustments are generally made in increments of 0.25 unit. It's just easier to eyeball a quarter unit when you have half unit markings. Half unit syringes have the smallest measurement readily available to us. There are no syringes marked in quarter units or less.

U-100 3/10cc syringes with half unit markings are the best to use for drawing Lantus or Levemir from vials, cartridges, and pens. BD Ultra-Fine, CarePoint Vet, Monoject, GNP, UltiCare Vet Rx, Sure Comfort, and ReliOn (Walmart) are just some of the brands available with half unit markings. Needle gauge and length is your preference. Syringes come in ½ inch or 5/16 inch needle lengths. Needle gauges are 29, 30 or 31 (31 being the thinnest).

A micro-dose is simply a dose which is less than a half unit. Some people eye-ball the dose. Some use calipers to measure doses. Some count the number of drops in a unit to figure out tiny doses.
Here are some examples of how to figure out fine dosing:


Fine Dose Pictorial Guide

Fine dose gradations:
  • 0.5U = exactly half a unit
  • 0.4U = skinny 0.5 touching the line
  • 0.3U = skinny 0.5 with daylight under the line
  • 0.2U = fat zero with daylight over the line
  • 0.1U = fat zero barely touching the line
Pictorial guide using a U-100 syringe marked with half units :

someinsulin-1.jpg
01unit-1.jpg

025unit-1.jpg
5e86c3d4.jpg


When it comes to micro-dosing, there's no way of knowing if the dose is entirely accurate. For example, my 0.25u dose and your 0.25u dose may not be exactly the same... and that's ok. What's important is consistency... replicating that same dose (same amount of insulin) so you can consistently shoot the same dose as long as kitty is getting that particular dose.
Measuring fine doses (micro-doses) and more can be found in the LANTUS & LEVEMIR - SYRINGE & INSULIN INFO: HANDLING, DRAWING, & FINE DOSES sticky.


No one can give you a specific BG number where you'd give a "micro-dose" when using Lantus because Lantus dosing is based on nadirs (how low the dose is dropping kitty) with only some consideration given to preshot numbers.

As kitty is methodically and systematically coming down the dosing scale after "earned" reductions, eventually the caregiver will find themselves measuring doses which are less than a half unit.


I agree with Janet. How about setting up a spreadsheet for Kitter? If you need help just holler.


Since this forum is strictly for welcoming new members, let's move over to the Health Forum. Your questions will receive more exposure on Health. See you there!

Once you have a spreadsheet set up, please join us in the Lantus & Levemir Insulin Support Group! :)


All, thank you so much for that info. Kitter is still has really low bs, like a normal cat. We're still testing him regularly, but no shots needed. If he does, I will consider the micro doses.
 
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