My cat Fluffer won't eat.

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acsmith1972

acsmith1972

Member Since 2016
The vet recently upped his dosage to two units a day after he had a hypoglycemic episode. He told my wife when she picked him up to make sure he eats before his shot. Fluffer, who used to be 24 pounds and is now 12, refuses to eat. Not significantly, anyway. He'll take a few bites and walk away. I've tried honey a few times like tonight when he's stumbling all over the place and all that seems to do is make him want more water. I've tried everything and put all his favorite foods out and he ignores it.

He's getting wet food, pate twice a day, but my cats are free-fed and my schedule and my wife's don't allow us to do a feeding schedule. Not that it would matter anyway, they don't eat at the same time no matter what. So we have dry food out. I know a lot of you hate dry food, but every vet I've talked to has said properly managed they can still have dry food. Preferably the good stuff, but an eating cat is better than a dead cat that starved itself. Plus, apparently dry food is one of the steps for hypoglycemia.

I haven't given Fluffer a shot in two days because of his lack of eating. Should I go for it and monitor him after?
 
Hello! You might have better luck getting responses by posting your question in the Main Health forum, since it isn't an insulin specific. However, I will tell you when my cat wasn't eating, my vet prescribed an anti-naseau med as well as an appetite stimulant, and they stressed the importance of keeping him on the insulin. Best of luck!

Oh, and my vet said it was more important for him to eat, than to stick to Low carb food. If there are treats or dry food that the cat will eat, that is better than nothing.
 
acsmith1972 said:
But then he upped the dosage anyway.
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That makes NO sense. If your cat had a possible symptomatic hypo event, you would NOT give him more insulin!

I see you still haven't been able to test him. I understand that it is difficult at first, but we aren't kidding when we say it could save his life. What we need to find out is, are these "episodes" a hypo, or could they be a sign he has DKA. DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis, is very serious and can happen if a cat isn't getting enough insulin, isn't getting enough calories, and has an infection. From your previous post, it sounds like Fluffer qualifies. Just so you know, a hypo event can kill your cat quickly without intervention. DKA can also kill him, but more slowly.

Please read this post on testing tips and try anything you haven't already tried. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/ DO not be afraid to poke hard enough to go through the ear. I promise you it doesn't hurt the cat, and you NEED to get the test.

What I found easiest was to use the rice sock, heating in the microwave for about 30 seconds (depending on your microwave). It should be warm, but not too warm - test it like a baby bottle, against the inside of your wrist. Hold it against the ear. I would sort of roll the ear over it, so it was curved around the sock. Hold it there several seconds, then keep the sock in place while you poke near the edge of the ear, quickly and firmly (I never had luck with the device, I used the lancet). Then squeeze the spot where you poked until blood comes up. Make sure the stip is all the way in the meter, so it is ready, and dip it in the blood. If you have to, get the blood on your fingernail and test it from there.
 
MiCo said:
Oh, and my vet said it was more important for him to eat, than to stick to Low carb food. If there are treats or dry food that the cat will eat, that is better than nothing.
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Absolutely. Cats can get something called hepatic lipidosis if they don't eat enough, and it is very serious. I know because I lost a cat to it, before I understood the importance of getting the calories into them.

Friskies and Fancy Feast pates are low carb foods and are not as "bad" as some people think. Many people here feed them to their diabetic cats.

When you have some funds again, I would suggest investing in a couple of automatic feeders. Many of us here like the PetSafe 5 Meal Feeder. Some Petsmarts and Petcos have them, or you can order them on Amazon. They run about $35 each. There is a place under the food tray where you can put an ice pack to keep the moist food fresh. You fill the first four slots and set it to turn at one or two hour intervals (or whenever you want), and then you leave the last dish empty and set it to turn two hours before shot time. That way, the cat(s) don't have access to food and you can get a preshot test that does not have food influencing the BG.
 
Like the others have stated, it's very important to get a test before you give insulin if you think he's too low. Chances are he's too high without insulin for 2 days. If you can you should test his urine for ketones. He might need ER care.
Do not increase his insulin if he had a HYPOglycemic incident. If he was too high, HYPERglycemic, then I can see why your vet increased his dose. Very important to figure out which one happened. To prevent both you should test before giving his shots.
ProZinc usually has a nadir at 6 hours after the shot. It's most definitely out of his system after 24hours. His body shouldn't be making him go too low on its own. I say "shouldn't" only because I've never heard of it and I'm not a vet so I can't say it's a fact.
Edited to add: I read this over and it seemed kinda rude/harsh. Please don't think I'm trying be rude or harsh... That wasn't my intention. :oops:
 
How long has Fluffer been refusing to eat? Did you change his food right before he started refusing? Your vet is right about an eating cat is better than a dead cat. In the end, you have to give him what he'll eat. Will he eat anything? You could try a bit of tuna to see if he'll eat that, or some crushed up treats on food.
 
He hasn't eaten much for a few days now. I just put more fresh wet food and he had a few bites but then he walked away.
 
StephG said:
Like the others have stated, it's very important to get a test before you give insulin if you think he's too low. Chances are he's too high without insulin for 2 days. If you can you should test his urine for ketones. He might need ER care.
Do not increase his insulin if he had a HYPOglycemic incident. If he was too high, HYPERglycemic, then I can see why your vet increased his dose. Very important to figure out which one happened. To prevent both you should test before giving his shots.
ProZinc usually has a nadir at 6 hours after the shot. It's most definitely out of his system after 24hours. His body shouldn't be making him go too low on its own. I say "shouldn't" only because I've never heard of it and I'm not a vet so I can't say it's a fact.
Edited to add: I read this over and it seemed kinda rude/harsh. Please don't think I'm trying be rude or harsh... That wasn't my intention. :oops:
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His symptoms were he suddenly looked like he was having a stroke. He twisted his body on one side and was stretching his paw up in the air like he was trying to claw some imaginary beast. I put him on the floor and he fell into several pieces of furniture and his eyes got really big. It was pretty scary, we thought he was dying. It happened during a blizzard to make things worse. I put honey on his gums and it snapped him out of it. It happened several more times that night and honey worked. The third time he ate like a piggy and was back to normal.

But for the last few days he's gone back to really low energy. Nothing quite as harsh, but walking slowly, sleeping standing up, not much water consumption. Last time he had blood work there were no ketones.
 
Rachel said:
How long has Fluffer been refusing to eat? Did you change his food right before he started refusing? Your vet is right about an eating cat is better than a dead cat. In the end, you have to give him what he'll eat. Will he eat anything? You could try a bit of tuna to see if he'll eat that, or some crushed up treats on food.
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No, I still give him the same stuff. Generally. I've added a few things like the occasional can of Wellness Core, but mostly he gets his regular stuff.
 
Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey said:
That makes NO sense. If your cat had a possible symptomatic hypo event, you would NOT give him more insulin!

I see you still haven't been able to test him. I understand that it is difficult at first, but we aren't kidding when we say it could save his life. What we need to find out is, are these "episodes" a hypo, or could they be a sign he has DKA. DKA, diabetic ketoacidosis, is very serious and can happen if a cat isn't getting enough insulin, isn't getting enough calories, and has an infection. From your previous post, it sounds like Fluffer qualifies. Just so you know, a hypo event can kill your cat quickly without intervention. DKA can also kill him, but more slowly.

Please read this post on testing tips and try anything you haven't already tried. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/ DO not be afraid to poke hard enough to go through the ear. I promise you it doesn't hurt the cat, and you NEED to get the test.

What I found easiest was to use the rice sock, heating in the microwave for about 30 seconds (depending on your microwave). It should be warm, but not too warm - test it like a baby bottle, against the inside of your wrist. Hold it against the ear. I would sort of roll the ear over it, so it was curved around the sock. Hold it there several seconds, then keep the sock in place while you poke near the edge of the ear, quickly and firmly (I never had luck with the device, I used the lancet). Then squeeze the spot where you poked until blood comes up. Make sure the stip is all the way in the meter, so it is ready, and dip it in the blood. If you have to, get the blood on your fingernail and test it from there.
Click to expand...

I'm going to go try in a few minutes. If I'm successful what should the number be to give him a shot?
 
I just poked 6 holes in his ear and no blood came out. I tried his paw pad and couldn't pierce it and he got pissed. Is 30 the wrong lancet size?
 
acsmith1972 said:
I just poked 6 holes in his ear and no blood came out. I tried his paw pad and couldn't pierce it and he got pissed. Is 30 the wrong lancet size?
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You need a thicker lancet in the range of 26 to 28 gauge. They're usually labelled for "alternate site testing" at a human pharmacy. You also need to warm the ear very well to get good blood flow. One way to do this is to put hot water into a small, tightly sealed empty bottle and rub it over the ear. Another method is to make a "rice sock' but putting about 1/2 cup dry uncooked rice into the toe of an old, clean sock and heating it in the microwave until it's very warm but touchable. Massaging the ear from the base toward the tip will help and make sure you're aiming for the upper outer edge of the ear. Many of us find that free handing with the lancet gives much better control than using it in the spring trigger holder.
 
This stuff is hard for me. I work 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I can't get back there till probably 10 tonight but I'll ask to leave early. If I'm lucky I'll get out at 9. I work in a restaurant. The hours suck.
 
acsmith1972 said:
This stuff is hard for me. I work 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I can't get back there till probably 10 tonight but I'll ask to leave early. If I'm lucky I'll get out at 9. I work in a restaurant. The hours suck.
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I can see that this is difficult with your routine. All I can suggest is that you learn to test and at least test right before feeding and injecting. If he's a good eater you can inject while he's eating. With practice the routine shouldn't take much more time than he takes to eat.
 
Do you warm his ear? That was the solution for us - warm ears bleed better. You can make a rice sack with a thinnish sock, fill it with raw rice and knot. Put it in the microwave until nice and war, hold it up next to his ear while giving him loves or a low carb treat. After 30 seconds or so, poke.

The fatter lancet should work better too.

Once you get this down, even with your hours, it will be easier. A quick test in the am, shot, maybe an out the door test, leave out some food and see how things look at night. Lots of people manage with the am/pm test when they work and then more tests on their day off.
 
I'll try tell sock thing later, thanks for that idea. I'll try to wrap him in a towel, too so he doesn't squirm away. He's the most cuddly kitty I've ever seen but he's not a fan of being held. If I can't get the test right should I go ahead and give him the shot anyway? He won't eat for an audience when he's sick but I suspect he eats a little even now.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I'll try tell sock thing later, thanks for that idea. I'll try to wrap him in a towel, too so he doesn't squirm away. He's the most cuddly kitty I've ever seen but he's not a fan of being held. If I can't get the test right should I go ahead and give him the shot anyway? He won't eat for an audience when he's sick but I suspect he eats a little even now.
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What insulin are you using and what dose is he on?
 
Okay. How does insulin work? If his numbers are high like at his vet appointment, does insulin make that go up? Is food the only way to make it go down?
 
Were his numbers high at the vet's office? How high? (Cats can be 100+points higher at the vet because of vet stress). When was that? How many hours from now?

Generally you give insulin when the test in the am/pm is over 200. The insulin brings down the number for about 5-7 hours until the level is at its lowest point. Then it slowly climbs back up to the next shot 12 hours later
. That makes a smile shaped curve. But sometimes curves look different as the kitties are not good at reading the manual.:D

If you give insulin when the number is too low, the insulin pushes down that number and he can drop too low, causing a hypo. They can be deadly. Having high levels isn't great but is, short term, less dangerous. We wouldn't want to encourage you to give insulin without knowing if he is already in a low range.
 
acsmith1972 said:
Okay. How does insulin work? If his numbers are high like at his vet appointment, does insulin make that go up? Is food the only way to make it go down?
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His numbers will be high for any number of reasons like:
  • stress from being at the vet's office
  • insulin dose was too low
  • high carb food has been fed
  • presence of infection or inflammation
  • etc.
Food, once digested and absorbed, increases the glucose level in the blood. This glucose is taken into the cells to make energy for every process needed to keep kitty alive. Insulin is needed to get this glucose into the cells properly. A diabetic cat doesn't produce enough insulin so the glucose stays in the bloodstream and raises the BG level. The kitty is starving even if he's eating because the glucose can't get into the cells.

Injecting insulin is the way to give the kitty the insulin he needs and the amount of insulin (dose) injected determines how low the BG can be lowered - too large a dose, too much lowering and too small a dose, not enough lowering. If a kitty isn't eating well there's not enough glucose in the bloodstream for the insulin to act on so a dose can drag the BG down to very low levels.

Does this help?
 
I'm not sure, I'll call the vet but I think his number was 400 or 500. Something like that. That was on Friday. Since then I only gave him one shot one time because he was acting so sick.
 
What dose was he getting when he had a hypo?

It would so much safer to give insulin if you had a current number. The vet number could have been inflated; it could have been a bounce from the hypo. What I can't understand is why the vet would raise the dose if he had a hypo. Is that sure what happened?
 
The vet said he didn't think he was hypo, but if he wasn't then he's just been stroking out all week, which I highly doubt. Apparently it wasn't a glucose test, he did a fructosamine test. I think he did both. I remember him saying his levels were too high for a morning shot for the curve. The fructose results aren't in yet.
 
acsmith1972 said:
he did a fructosamine test.
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This test just gives an average of how the BG has been for the 2 - 3 weeks prior: poor control, good control, etc. It's of limited value compared to daily testing.

acsmith1972 said:
I remember him saying his levels were too high for a morning shot for the curve.
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I don't understand this. BG levels are never too high for insulin. Too low, yes, but never too high.
 
I may have misunderstood but I know they skipped the morning dose because of his levels.

If I can't get fluffer to eat how do I do the shot? I tried manually feeding him, but he got pissed at that.
 
I'll repeat what Sue suggested above when she mentioned looking at the links in her signature about how ProZinc works and how to use it.

I understand that your work schedule is very hectic and has long hours. It makes treating feline diabetes more of a challenge but not impossible. That's why it's extremely important that you're up to speed on how this insulin works, how to do BG testing, understanding what the vet is telling you and so on. When you're fitting all this into a very busy, tight schedule you don't have the time to try to figure it out on the fly. You need the knowledge at your fingertips and you need BG data to refer to.

A number of other posters have explained at length what you need to know and even apologized for seeming harsh. Neither they nor I intend to be harsh or bossy. We're trying our utmost to help you help your kitty. You're the one there with Fluffer so you're the one who has the power to act.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I may have misunderstood but I know they skipped the morning dose because of his levels.

If I can't get fluffer to eat how do I do the shot? I tried manually feeding him, but he got pissed at that.
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Right now he needs to eat even if it's high carb dry food. He's at risk of developing complications from too little food and no insulin. Try some kibble to see if that tempts him.
 
I've tried his cap food, I tried blue buffalo, I tried several wet foods all of which he loves like chicken or tuna pate, I tried 4 different kind of treats, and even kitty milk. He literally won't eat. He had like 3 bites of his pate at around 9 and hasn't eaten since. My wife is home and thinks he's given up. He's walking around all lethargic but back to hiding under furniture. Should he go back to the vet for iv feeding? I know you guys all want to know this bg number, but I can't check till later tonight. My wife can't check because she just isn't good doing that sort of thing. But either way I guess what I'm asking is will a shot bring his appetite back? He lost 12 pounds since this started and every day he loses a little more.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I've tried his cap food, I tried blue buffalo, I tried several wet foods all of which he loves like chicken or tuna pate, I tried 4 different kind of treats, and even kitty milk. He literally won't eat. He had like 3 bites of his pate at around 9 and hasn't eaten since. My wife is home and thinks he's given up. He's walking around all lethargic but back to hiding under furniture. Should he go back to the vet for iv feeding? I know you guys all want to know this bg number, but I can't check till later tonight. My wife can't check because she just isn't good doing that sort of thing. But either way I guess what I'm asking is will a shot bring his appetite back? He lost 12 pounds since this started and every day he loses a little more.
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There are a number of things that can help a cat who won't eat: antinausea meds, appetite stimulant meds, sub cutaneous fluids, etc. If you can take him back to the vet to get him checked that's best because a diabetic cat is at risk of diabetic ketoacidosis (from not eating and no insulin) and hepatic lipidosis (from not eating). These are conditions that are very difficult to treat at home especially with a very difficult work schedule.
 
I called the vet. I'm waiting for a callback. They told me to try to get him to eat anything at all he wants so I told my wife to open a can of tuna. I doubt it will work but maybe.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I called the vet. I'm waiting for a callback. They told me to try to get him to eat anything at all he wants so I told my wife to open a can of tuna. I doubt it will work but maybe.
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Plain pureed baby food in the jar is a popular thing to try. It has to be plain meat and broth, no spices or onion in it. You can try getting Fluffer to eat it on his own or you might have to resort to syringe feeding.
 
I'll try that later. Vet assistant called back and recommended VCA for 24/7 care but I know what they charge. I don't have an extra $2000 laying around. The vet will call in the morning. Maybe they can treat him there and do a payment plan. I'm going to post a gofundme campaign. I doubt it will help, but maybe.
 
My wife put food in his mouth and he won't chew or swallow and just spits it out so it'll probably have to be liquid later.
 
Sharon14 said:
Your previous post
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/my-kitty-doesnt-seem-to-be-getting-better.169887/
You mentioned dental problems, have they been addressed?
Please pick up some ketone test strips at the pharmacy, with him not eating or getting insulin, it's important to test. If you don't see them, ask, they're sometimes hard to spot on the shelf.
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I'll try that. Hopefully he has a bathroom trip while I'm watching. Can it be tested from the litter or do I have to put it under the pee? As for his dental issues, no, the vet said he needs to be stable before we talk about surgery for that.
 
acsmith1972 said:
I'll try that. Hopefully he has a bathroom trip while I'm watching. Can it be tested from the litter or do I have to put it under the pee? As for his dental issues, no, the vet said he needs to be stable before we talk about surgery for that.
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The ketone strip has to get wet with urine. Try putting a shallow dish or lid under his backside to collect some pee. It's easier than trying to get the strip into the urine stream.
 
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