Buddys SS up and going 3rd part about dosing

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wolfey said:
I started new thread because the other thread had got too long.
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I did find out from Bud's doctor that he removed the tail of his pancreas, more tissue of the pancreas that was inflamed and the tissue looked & felt different than the other tissue. He also removed inflamed tissue in and around pancreas, damaged fat tissue and his spleen. He sent some of the tissue for a histopath, hoping for good results on this. He said this had been brewing for a while. Hope Buddy continues to improve.
 
wolfey said:
He has been wanting to eat a lot. I must admit he has been eating more and he is eating Royal Canin wet food. He will not eat FF classic and since he needs to eat I am giving him Royal Canin.
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At +5 @73 I gave Bud 1/2 can of Royal Canin to try and stop number from getting too low. How long should I wait before taking another reading. Hope this helps.
 
wolfey said:
I did find out from Bud's doctor that he removed the tail of his pancreas, more tissue of the pancreas that was inflamed and the tissue looked & felt different than the other tissue. He also removed inflamed tissue in and around pancreas, damaged fat tissue and his spleen. He sent some of the tissue for a histopath, hoping for good results on this. He said this had been brewing for a while. Hope Buddy continues to improve.
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Fingers crossed for positive results!
 
wolfey said:
At +5 @73 I gave Bud 1/2 can of Royal Canin to try and stop number from getting too low. How long should I wait before taking another reading. Hope this helps.
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I had to go out so I'm seeing this now. Those greens aren't surprising. I'd do another reading soon. If he hasn't dropped more, don't give any more food and retest in 30 minutes. You wan to know if he'll hold without food.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I had to go out so I'm seeing this now. Those greens aren't surprising. I'd do another reading soon. If he hasn't dropped more, don't give any more food and retest in 30 minutes. You wan to know if he'll hold without food.
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I took another reading he was @72 so I gave him another 1/2 can royal canin waited 1/2 hr checked again he was @69 I feed him FF grilled with gravy @2:30 he was @87. Will check again shortly. I would like your input tonight on his dose if you have the time.
 
It is 3:00 and his reading was 111, how long do you think I should wait before rechecking. I know @73 it could have been worse, but I did not want him to go lower.
 
wolfey said:
At 3:30 took another reading he was @125
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I think he's on the rise. You could give 3 u tonight and test at +2 or +3. If you want to play it safer overnight maybe drop to 2.75 u? You might see higher bounce numbers tonight. The final dose decision can be on hold until you see his PMPS.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I think he's on the rise. You could give 3 u tonight and test at +2 or +3. If you want to play it safer overnight maybe drop to 2.75 u? You might see higher bounce numbers tonight. The final dose decision can be on hold until you see his PMPS.
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He is @374 at 6:30, what dose of insulin would you give.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I'd give 3 u, not 3.25 because you had to prop him up with food. Can you test at least once this evening/
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I gave him 2.75 this evening. I am not going to give him 3.25 again, unless it is clear he needs an increase. I can test him again if he will quit eating. I did pick his food up, but he has wanted to eat all day.
 
wolfey said:
I gave him 2.75 this evening. I am not going to give him 3.25 again, unless it is clear he needs an increase. I can test him again if he will quit eating. I did pick his food up, but he has wanted to eat all day.
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He should be fine with 2.75 u. If he needs to gain weight, let him eat. It'll help in his recovery too.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
He should be fine with 2.75 u. If he needs to gain weight, let him eat. It'll help in his recovery too.
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I probably will go back to 3u in the morning, if not I will not go over. He was pretty chubby before this started, but he has lost weight. This is the 1st day he has been his self since he had surgery.
 
Looks like he might need a bit more than 3 u. You can try what we call a "fat" 3 u - just past but barely touching the 3 u line. How is he feeling? No pain meds today, right?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Looks like he might need a bit more than 3 u. You can try what we call a "fat" 3 u - just past but barely touching the 3 u line. How is he feeling? No pain meds today, right?
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He is more like his self, no pain meds. He wants to eat all the time and I must admit I am giving him more food than I did before his surgery. He has lost weight, one of his front legs looks like a poodle where they shaved his hair for IVs. He is eating the Royal Canin wet only, no dry food. He will not eat FF classic, he will eat FF grilled with the gravy (found out when readings started dropping down yesterday). I will try the fat 3u, isn't it strange that the little amount for .25 made his dose too much. I was thinking he would need an increase in insulin because of his surgery.
 
wolfey said:
He is more like his self, no pain meds. He wants to eat all the time and I must admit I am giving him more food than I did before his surgery. He has lost weight, one of his front legs looks like a poodle where they shaved his hair for IVs. He is eating the Royal Canin wet only, no dry food. He will not eat FF classic, he will eat FF grilled with the gravy (found out when readings started dropping down yesterday). I will try the fat 3u, isn't it strange that the little amount for .25 made his dose too much. I was thinking he would need an increase in insulin because of his surgery.
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Yes, insulin is very powerful. I'm glad he's eating. Have you tried giving him Friskies pates - still low carb.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, insulin is very powerful. I'm glad he's eating. Have you tried giving him Friskies pates - still low carb.
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No I haven't since he has been home from hospital. The 1st time he had pancreatitis he was eating Friskies pate (I still feed this to some of the cats) he got food aversion and would not eat any canned food. He would only eat dry (Purina OM prescription diet) when I started feeding Red FF grilled he decided he wanted to eat that also. When he got sick they said he could only eat certain foods and 1 of them was Purina OM dry, Purina DM wet food( Buddy does not like) or Royal Canin wet. He really likes the Royal Canin wet food and right now he will not eat FF classic
 
wolfey said:
No I haven't since he has been home from hospital. The 1st time he had pancreatitis he was eating Friskies pate (I still feed this to some of the cats) he got food aversion and would not eat any canned food. He would only eat dry (Purina OM prescription diet) when I started feeding Red FF grilled he decided he wanted to eat that also. When he got sick they said he could only eat certain foods and 1 of them was Purina OM dry, Purina DM wet food( Buddy does not like) or Royal Canin wet. He really likes the Royal Canin wet food and right now he will not eat FF classic
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Well, then it's whatever he'll eat. You don't want a food aversion in the middle of all this. Have you tried some YA dry since he came home? You do have some right?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Well, then it's whatever he'll eat. You don't want a food aversion in the middle of all this. Have you tried some YA dry since he came home? You do have some right?
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I have the whole package of YA, he ate very little of it because his numbers starting going up on the 1st day and only day he ate some. Since he has been so sick I am afraid to mess around with his diet and try the YA again. When some time has passed and if he is doing alright I will try to introduce it back into his diet. Last week at this time he had not had surgery, he was a really sick little guy and that scares me.
 
wolfey said:
I have the whole package of YA, he ate very little of it because his numbers starting going up on the 1st day and only day he ate some. Since he has been so sick I am afraid to mess around with his diet and try the YA again. When some time has passed and if he is doing alright I will try to introduce it back into his diet. Last week at this time he had not had surgery, he was a really sick little guy and that scares me.
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Completely understandable, Teresa. For now don't mess with his food. :)
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Completely understandable, Teresa. For now don't mess with his food. :)
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The st time I took a reading this morning it said 600. My heart went into over drive, I grabbed his doctors number and just as I was getting ready to call the thought it hit me, take it again. This time it was 323, so I gave him a fat 3u.
 
wolfey said:
The st time I took a reading this morning it said 600. My heart went into over drive, I grabbed his doctors number and just as I was getting ready to call the thought it hit me, take it again. This time it was 323, so I gave him a fat 3u.
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Always a good idea to repeat a test that surprises you. :) Let's see what the fat 3 u does. Suggestion: put a captital letter "F" in front of the 3 on your SS to indicate the fat dose.
 
So glad to see that you and Wolfey are recovering and doing well. Challenging juggling the meds with the insulin, but you are doing a great job.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
So glad to see that you and Wolfey are recovering and doing well. Challenging juggling the meds with the insulin, but you are doing a great job.[/QUOTE, ] Buddy has done really well. When he 1st came home he did not have much of an appetite so his doctor put him on Metacam for pain, he also said I could give him an anti-nausea medicine I had here. He took those for 2 days and I believe they really helped him. Now he is wanting to eat all the time. He has been eating more than he is supposed to get. I called the doctor yesterday to see if he could have more food since he has been through so much and he said no. I know it does raise his blood sugars and I have not got him on a regular
dose yet, but it is so hard to turn him down when he is wanting food and crying. Thank you for asking about Buddy.
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Will Buddy have a follow up checkup by the vet? Would he be more satisfied if you take the vet-approved daily food ration and divide it up into many small meals? It would be busier for you but might work better while he's recuperating.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Will Buddy have a follow up checkup by the vet? Would he be more satisfied if you take the vet-approved daily food ration and divide it up into many small meals? It would be busier for you but might work better while he's recuperating.
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He is supposed to have a curve by the vet around the 1st week in March, I will e-mail him the SS. If he still wants Bud to come in and do the curve I will take him in for the day. I want to stay in his good graces in case I need him, he is now Buddy's doctor. I started today to ration his food, 1st thing this morning I gave him a larger amount, but I also held some back. I have been doing a lot of readings and after each one I have been giving him a small amount. One of his readings was in the 80s and I gave him some food, same thing with the next one it was in the 90s. Now I don't know if it would have come up without the food. Every day since he came home he has been eating more than the approved amount by his doctor, so I do not have an accurate picture of his readings. Today will be the 1st day. He would cry for food and I went ahead and gave him extra food, it is the same food he is supposed to eat, only more. So I am starting all over again.
 
wolfey said:
He is supposed to have a curve by the vet around the 1st week in March, I will e-mail him the SS. If he still wants Bud to come in and do the curve I will take him in for the day. I want to stay in his good graces in case I need him, he is now Buddy's doctor. I started today to ration his food, 1st thing this morning I gave him a larger amount, but I also held some back. I have been doing a lot of readings and after each one I have been giving him a small amount. One of his readings was in the 80s and I gave him some food, same thing with the next one it was in the 90s. Now I don't know if it would have come up without the food. Every day since he came home he has been eating more than the approved amount by his doctor, so I do not have an accurate picture of his readings. Today will be the 1st day. He would cry for food and I went ahead and gave him extra food, it is the same food he is supposed to eat, only more. So I am starting all over again.
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Yes, it's wise to have the vet on your side. That green is nice. You'll want to stick to a fat 3 u for a bit. Pay more attention to those mid cycle numbers than the PSs. They might be a bit higher because of short term bouncing.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Yes, it's wise to have the vet on your side. That green is nice. You'll want to stick to a fat 3 u for a bit. Pay more attention to those mid cycle numbers than the PSs. They might be a bit higher because of short term bouncing.
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At +6 when he was @85 I gave him some RC and at +7 when he was at 98 I gave him some more RC , so I don't know if he came up because of the food or not. Yesterday and since he came home on 3u, I have over feed him.
Maybe if I am feeding him the correct amount (I am today) 3u would be enough. I bought the YA so he would be able to eat more, but it raised his numbers. A 4lb bag of YA cost $30.00 and if Bud could eat it and not raise his BS it would be worth it.
 
wolfey said:
At +6 when he was @85 I gave him some RC and at +7 when he was at 98 I gave him some more RC , so I don't know if he came up because of the food or not. Yesterday and since he came home on 3u, I have over feed him.
Maybe if I am feeding him the correct amount (I am today) 3u would be enough. I bought the YA so he would be able to eat more, but it raised his numbers. A 4lb bag of YA cost $30.00 and if Bud could eat it and not raise his BS it would be worth it.
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If you feel better giving 3 u tonight, try that. It's possible that's a good dose for him.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How much is he eating daily?
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You won't believe This I went to take a reading for Buddy tonight and it came back 594, every time I took a reading it was high like that. I called the # on the Reli-On Meter and talked to 2 different people and they both said the meter was working correctly. I about had a heart attack. I called his doctor ( thankfully you can reach him after hours) he told me to up his dose from 3u to 4u and if he had not come down 100 numbers in 3 or 4 hrs, to give him 1u more. He is allowed 3 -3oz cans of Royal Canin Glycobalance wet food daily. When I was trying to get a reading he still had 1 more can of food he could eat tonight. If he was low enough to have a bounce I did not know about it. Has anyone ever had this happen. This scares me.
 
wolfey said:
You won't believe This I went to take a reading for Buddy tonight and it came back 594, every time I took a reading it was high like that. I called the # on the Reli-On Meter and talked to 2 different people and they both said the meter was working correctly. I about had a heart attack. I called his doctor ( thankfully you can reach him after hours) he told me to up his dose from 3u to 4u and if he had not come down 100 numbers in 3 or 4 hrs, to give him 1u more. He is allowed 3 -3oz cans of Royal Canin Glycobalance wet food daily. When I was trying to get a reading he still had 1 more can of food he could eat tonight. If he was low enough to have a bounce I did not know about it. Has anyone ever had this happen. This scares me.
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Those green numbers you had mid day could have caused this high black number. He dropped from an AMPS of 323 to 85 in 6 hours. That's a huge drop in a fairly short time. This is the first time you've seen a black number so it scared you. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT give more insulin in 3 or 4 hours. I see that you've already given 4 u. It's possible that he'll stay high this evening and overnight because of bouncing. The other possibility is that he'll drop low again and have to be steered with food. Do you have high carb food with gravy? Plenty of test strips?

Buddy might be overreacting/bouncing more than usual because he's still recuperating. His response to insulin might be different right now. You have to remember the saying we use often here: better too high for a day than too low for a minute. That high black is just one high number - it won't hurt him. However, giving him more insulin tonight is, in my opinion, too risky. It could cause a hypo and a bad hypo is very dangerous.

Reminder: bouncing can be caused by:
  1. BG dropping too low
  2. BG dropping lower than it has been even if it isn't that low
  3. BG dropping fast - ie., many points in a short time.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Those green numbers you had mid day could have caused this high black number. He dropped from an AMPS of 323 to 85 in 6 hours. That's a huge drop in a fairly short time. This is the first time you've seen a black number so it scared you. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT give more insulin in 3 or 4 hours. I see that you've already given 4 u. It's possible that he'll stay high this evening and overnight because of bouncing. The other possibility is that he'll drop low again and have to be steered with food. Do you have high carb food with gravy? Plenty of test strips?

Buddy might be overreacting/bouncing more than usual because he's still recuperating. His response to insulin might be different right now. You have to remember the saying we use often here: better too high for a day than too low for a minute. That high black is just one high number - it won't hurt him. However, giving him more insulin tonight is, in my opinion, too risky. It could cause a hypo and a bad hypo is very dangerous.

Reminder: bouncing can be caused by:
  1. BG dropping too low
  2. BG dropping lower than it has been even if it isn't that low
  3. BG dropping fast - ie., many points in a short time.
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I will not give him any more insulin tonight, now I wish I had not give him the 4u. I do have high carb food with gravy and I have 25 or 30 test strips. How long do you think it will take for him to go low or do you think I should just plan to stay up tonight.
 
wolfey said:
I am beginning to wonder if we need a different insulin.
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Too soon to tell, Teresa. I don't think you've got the kinks worked out with ProZinc yet and Buddy's illness/surgery have been a setback. Try sticking with it a little longer. You still have food issues to sort out and Buddy needs to recover fully.

I'd test him this evening at +2 and +3 because that 4 u dose is uncomfortably high.
 
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Hi @wolfey! I'm just recently back here on the forum since my cat started showing higher numbers again. It looks like your sugar kitty has a lot going on! And you've been busy taking good care of him! While you're working on figuring out his food, I hope you'll forgive me for interjecting my story: when Sam was first diagnosed, our vet gave us the Royal Canin Glycobalance as well. It turns out that the main ingredients for that are pork by-products, chicken liver, chicken, wheat gluten, powdered cellulose, gelatin, wheat flour, modified corn starch. Sam is one of those cats that is pretty carb sensitive and he can't have anything with wheat or corn at all. The Royal Canin turned out to be a big part of the problem with his high numbers. Since you're still figuring out the best food for your kitty, I thought I'd toss that out there as something to consider. Every cat responds differently to different foods, so it may be fine for Buddy, but thought I'd mention it just in case that food might be impacting the numbers you're seeing.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Too soon to tell, Teresa. I don't think you've got the kinks worked out with ProZinc yet and Buddy's illness/surgery have been a setback. Try sticking with it a little longer. You still have food issues to sort out and Buddy needs to recover fully.

I'd test him this evening at +2 and +3 because that 4 u dose is uncomfortably high.
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I just tested at +2 he is @314, should things be worked out by +3, or should I plan to stay up late.
 
Djamila said:
Hi @wolfey! I'm just recently back here on the forum since my cat started showing higher numbers again. It looks like your sugar kitty has a lot going on! And you've been busy taking good care of him! While you're working on figuring out his food, I hope you'll forgive me for interjecting my story: when Sam was first diagnosed, our vet gave us the Royal Canin Glycobalance as well. It turns out that the main ingredients for that are pork by-products, chicken liver, chicken, wheat gluten, powdered cellulose, gelatin, wheat flour, modified corn starch. Sam is one of those cats that is pretty carb sensitive and he can't have anything with wheat or corn at all. The Royal Canin turned out to be a big part of the problem with his high numbers. Since you're still figuring out the best food for your kitty, I thought I'd toss that out there as something to consider. Every cat responds differently to different foods, so it may be fine for Buddy, but thought I'd mention it just in case that food might be impacting the numbers you're seeing.
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I had got Buddy off royal canin and he was eating FF classic before he went in for surgery. Since he has come home the only food he will eat is RC. I am waiting until more time has passed and he is better, then I am going to try to change him back to FF classic.
 
wolfey said:
I just tested at +2 he is @314, should things be worked out by +3, or should I plan to stay up late.
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He's already come down 280 points in only 2 hours. That's a lot. You might have a sleepless night ahead. Do you have honey, corn syrup or maple syrup in case you need to add a little of those to high carb food?

I have to sign off soon because I have an early outing tomorrow. Post on the main health forum if you need advice later. If you need it urgently put the red 911 icon at the front of your thread title.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
He's already come down 280 points in only 2 hours. That's a lot. You might have a sleepless night ahead. Do you have honey, corn syrup or maple syrup in case you need to add a little of those to high carb food?

I have to sign off soon because I have an early outing tomorrow. Post on the main health forum if you need advice later. If you need it urgently put the red 911 icon at the front of your thread title.
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Yes, I have maple syrup. I am already sleepy, hope I will know what to do.
 
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