? ?!?! Not doing well

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Did you try getting him to lick some off your finger? Do you happen to have a baby syringe around that you could use to get some food into his mouth? If he won't eat tonight, since ketones were clear, I think giving him insulin is a bit dicey although I hate to tell you to skip again. I think the vet should have given you an appetite stimulant as well as giving him the anti-nausea shot and sent some anti-nausea med home with you too. I just wonder if he's feeling punky because of his BG being up. Is he even approaching the dish and sniffing, or licking his lips near the dish? Both are usually a sign of nausea.
 
I asked them about an appetite stimulant and they said we're not there yet. No he's not even picking up his head to sniff the plate
 
Sounds to me like something is going on and the vet has not figured it out. I hate to say it but I think a re-visit to the vet is in order and I would certainly be having a discussion with them about the fact that today's visit was a waste of time and money and expect them to look at him again free of charge. If he's that lethargic and uninterested, something is up.
 
I just spoke with the vet and they said they did all they could today... and maybe it's the stress of going into the vets office that he doesn't want to eat and watch him over night and if he's not better in the morning call them. Or I could take him to the emergency vet for observation over night which will cost me more money.
 
Amanda you know Ham better than anyone else and you know what his behaviour is like now compared to his usual. I don't quite understand how the stress of a vet visit would be suggested as the reason for him not eating since that's why you took him into see the vet today. A cat not eating for 48 hours is in danger of Hepatic lipidosis. A diabetic cat not receiving insulin, not eating, therefore not getting insulin and with a possible infection, is in danger of ketones which can result in DKA. Both hepatic lipidosis and DKA can be life threatening and very expensive to treat.

If the vet checked for ketones via blood draw rather than a urine test (they will show up in blood work earlier) then DKA is not an immediate danger and Ham has only stopped eating for roughly 24 hours. That said, it would seem waiting till tomorrow morning should be OK however if you think he is off enough to go to the Emergency vet, take him.
 
I really can't afford to take him to the emergency vet. I spent more money then I had just to take him to the vet today.
 
Amanda, I understand how upsetting this is and we will do whatever we can to help. I see Chris sent you a PM and I'm hoping it might have something to do with DCIN. If Ham does need more treatment, they might reconsider if it's a case of him needing vet care. You should see a little red number at the upper right corner of your screen. Click on Inbox to see Chris' message.
 
Chris, I am so glad you came to the rescue. With Ham not eating and the Toujeo Amanda is using, she can't dose anything under 1u. While I hated to tell her to skip insulin tonight, I just didn't feel it would be safe trying even one unit because the Toujeo hasn't been tested on cats and I still wonder if that could be in any way responsible for Ham feeling poorly.
 
Amanda McMasters said:
I have been balling my eyes out for hours now cuz there is nothing I can do and nothing is helping
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no more cry.jpe

I'm so glad you're getting some help through DCIN, Chris is super-knowledgable about FD, too! Take a deep breath, regroup, and lets get started on getting your boy to eat something.

Amanda, will Ham eat dry food (kibble) or any kind of treats? At this point it's more important to get him to eat something than to worry about how many carbs it has. He just needs to get some food on board. Here is a recipe for a LIVER SHAKE that is supposed to be very palatable, cats are reported to love it and devour it. Might be worth a try! Sometimes cats who don't seem to want to eat can be encouraged to lick food off your hand, you could try a bit of canned food or baby food on your fingers, see if maybe you can kind of "prime the pump" that way. Sometimes making a slurry of canned food with some warm water will help (it can also be syringed). Bits of baked or boiled chicken breast (no seasonings) is another good thing to try. My cats have always been crazy about baby food ham - that's the only baby food meat they would ever eat. Have you tried that one?
 
Amanda, I don't know where you are located but I remembered reading this post from another member just a few days ago:

"I am finding these same symptom complaints all over facebook and read an article about a flu in New York with basically the same symptoms that quarantined a feline shelter for a week. For those experiencing unexplained hind leg weakness, it might be worthwhile to look at additional symptoms and start antibiotics:

The symptoms I have observed include the following:
  • Sudden lost of appetite
  • Sudden disinterest in water leading to dehydration
  • Sudden unexplained weakness with hind leg weakness accompanied by staggering and occasional limb twitching
  • Fever between 103 and 104
  • General body limpness
  • Two of my sick ones had sudden large amounts of vomit at the onset of illness
  • Depression (complete loss of interest in surroundings ie. staring at nothing)
  • Growling when medicating and syringe feeding.
  • No diarrhea"
Her cat had been experiencing symptoms similar to what you describe Ham as having, just thought you might be interested in looking into it. It may not apply at all in Ham's case, but thought I'd pass on the heads-up just in case. You can follow the entire thread by this member HERE.
 
Amanda McMasters said:
Ham is not doing well this morning!! He barfed up all of his dinner last night and has been very lethargic ever since.

He doesn't want to eat or drink anything. He'll take a couple of steps then he lays down. I've checked his bg and the numbers are normal for him they're not low... not sure what to do.
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I agree with everyone that says take to vet since I currently have four cats that are displaying similar symptoms with another one relapsed today. All have general weakness especially hind legs. It is some type of cat flu and insulin caused my diabetic cat to hypo when food level decreased. there are complaints all over facebook about a similar illness. Do you mind me asking where you are located? My vet recommended I gather this information in case there is a flu epidemic for our furry friends.
 
Amanda McMasters said:
Ham is not doing well this morning!! He barfed up all of his dinner last night and has been very lethargic ever since.

He doesn't want to eat or drink anything. He'll take a couple of steps then he lays down. I've checked his bg and the numbers are normal for him they're not low... not sure what to do.
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MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Sounds to me like something is going on and the vet has not figured it out. I hate to say it but I think a re-visit to the vet is in order and I would certainly be having a discussion with them about the fact that today's visit was a waste of time and money and expect them to look at him again free of charge. If he's that lethargic and uninterested, something is up.
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this infection whatever it is is baffling a lot of vets. what seemed to help mine most was clavamox and probiotics mixed in the meals along with one dose of prednisone.
 
He still isn't eating... I have tried wet food, kibble, tuna, baby food, and treats. He did just get up and jump on the counter for some water out of the faucet, used the litter box.
 
Try raising the food containers about 4 to 6 inches. Use a couple of books, or an upside down cookie tin. See if he will eat out of your raise hand.
 
I just tried warming it up. This morning when he sniffs it he's locking his lips... I tried to force him to eat some and every little bit I got in his mouth he spit out :banghead:
 
I'm sorry you are still having problems with him eating.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

Amanda McMasters said:
when he sniffs it he's locking his lips.
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This would suggest he is feeling nauseous.

Raising his food bowl can help as can the anti nausea meds, not sure how long the shot the vet gave him would last, maybe you could get some tablets and give them at home yourself when he needs them. I would phone the surgery and ask about that, tell them he is still not eating. It's been quite a while since he's eaten, I think I would ask them about the appetite stimulants too. Bear in mind that you would want to use both the anti nausea meds and the appie stimulants together, usually folk here give the anti nausea meds, and if kitty is still not eating after a period of time (not sure how long never done this myself) they would give the appie stimulant, you don't really want to stimulate appetite if they are feeling nauseous.

Did the vet check for ketones?? Did you manage to check yourself? (much cheaper and easier for you to monitor this at home, while Ham is in high numbers)
You could check at home by getting a urine sample, and getting the ketostix (for humans) at any pharmacy, they shouldn't be expensive, then you'll need to lurk by the litter tray and wait for him to pee, I used a ladle wrapped in tin foil when I needed a sample, I scoot it under BFG's bum to get a sample, didn't seem to bother George though he does give me a funny look:rolleyes:.


Other than not eating, how is he? Does he appear to be in discomfort? is he meatloafing?

What antibiotic did they give him a shot of? Why did they give it? Where did they think he had an infection?

With another missed insulin shot, high numbers, Ham not eating, and possible infection, I am increasingly worried about DKA with Ham, it's not a forgone conclusion, but he has all the 'ingredients' for developing this, and it can come on real quick, try and persist with the vet to try and avoid this becoming an emergency situation for him. I really feel for you as I can see that you have had trouble with the vet.

Sending Ham lots of feel better soon vines:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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If he is licking his lips, he's probably still nauseated. I'm glad to hear he drank some water and jumping up on the counter is a good sign. Check to see if he is dehydrated. You can check by pulling up on his scruff and letting go. If the skin snaps back right away, he is well hydrated. If there is a hesitation of the skin returning to position, then he's dehydrated. You can also check him gums? If they are sticky that's another sign he is dehydrated. If he is dehydrated, the vet can give him some SubQ fluids which would help make him feel better.

When is the last time Ham had a bowel movement? What was the consistency? Formed or loose? More smell than usual? Colour? I presume the vet checked for any hard stool in his bowels so that would hopefully rule out constipation but there are other things that could cause him to feel poorly. I know the vet said his pancreas was not inflamed but low grade pancreatitis might still cause him lack of appetite and nausea. I'd ask the vet to run a SnapfPL test just to be sure.

When you tried to get food into him were you using a feeding syringe? If not do you have one or can you get one as that's really the only way to assist feed him.
 
Other than not eating, how is he? Does he appear to be in discomfort? is he meatloafing?

What antibiotic did they give him a shot of? Why did they give it? Where did they think he had an infection?

Oh my gosh I starter laughing at "meatloafing" although that's what he's doing.

They gave him convenia. His red blood cells were high in his urine so just as a precaution they gave him that.
 
I tried putting some food on my finger and putting it in his mouth... which he spit most of it out. No I do not have a feeding syringe. His last bowel was probably Monday. I know he didn't have one yesterday and not yet today
 
Amanda McMasters said:
Oh my gosh I starter laughing at "meatloafing" although that's what he's doing.
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That is often a sign of discomfort/pain, and I have often ' seen' members whose cats suffer from pancreatitis flares, often describe there cat as meatloafing, as well as loosing appetite, and nausea, again I would revisit this with the vet, if he is in pain, some pain meds may go a long way to helping him feel better and start eating some. It's possible that at the early stages of a Pancreatitis flare that the pancreas may not be inflamed enough for your vet to be able to feel it when he palpates.


Amanda McMasters said:
His red blood cells were high in his urine
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That is a possible sign that there is inflammation in the bladder, it is possible that it is infection but again not a forgone conclusion, even if it is infection, from what I have read and understand convenia is perhaps not the best choice of antibiotic for bladder infection. Here's a link to Dr Lisa's site discussing Urinary tract problems http://catinfo.org/feline-urinary-tract-diseases/#Cystitis be it from infection or other. I wonder if you are seeing any other signs that might be indicative of a Urinary Tract problem, she outlines signs/symptoms on her page, might be worth taking a look and see if it rings true.

The whole Catinfo site has a lot of very useful, practical info/videos that you might find helpful/useful.

Try not to worry about the Convenia shot, although there are concerns about it's use in some cats, a number of folk here have used it and not had problems.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I can see him.
Sounds like he is not moving much and quite lethargic. :(:(
Poor little kitty.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

If you've offered the food and he hasn't taken it up try removing it for a while and then come back to him a little later, perhaps he's overfaced by it all.
But I think if he is not eating or drinking another call to the vet you took him to yesterday would be a good plan, ask him about the duration of the antinausea etc.

Do read the info on Dr Lisa's site, it doesn't seem like he is peeing much which in itself is unusual for a diabetic, but if he is not drinking I would wonder if he is dehydrated.
 
Ham looks like a very ill kitty in your photo. My guy had a bout of DKA and this is how he looked - limp rag doll, no interest in anything. If Ham was my kitty, I'd take him back to the vet ASAP for another evaluation including specific testing for ketones and pancreatitis. :(
 
While I don't think the Convenia was the best choice, Ham vomited and stopped eating before the shot so I don't think the Convenia is the problem. It's not the best choice but the vet probably thought it was the best option given the circumstances if she suspected an infection. My cat has had it with no problems so I wouldn't be concerned about it at this point but it is something to think about in the future.

That's quite the buffet Ham's got there. I agree with Gill. Pick up the food and then try again in a short while. If no luck, call the vet and see if you can get something for nausea and an appetite stimulant and ask about pain med to see if that might help too. He's not curled up in a ball or meatloafing in the pic but if he has been meatloafing abdominal discomfort is still something to consider.

I'm also wondering if a reduced dose of insulin would help but you can't give anything less than 1 unit with the Toujeo pen and you'd have to be able to monitor him closely and assist feed him if he dropped too low and too much honey or karo might make his nausea worse. The hyperglycemia has to be making him feel punky too!
 
I might have been overreacting to what Ham looks like in the photo but it reminded me so much of Teasel when he went into DKA.
 
Amanda McMasters said:
I think I got it if this works this is how Ham's been all day and night yesterdayView attachment 26275
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Amanda, this is exactly what my cats have been doing when they have been ill this past 2 to 3 weeks. My diabetic cat is still very ill! If your cat is not eating on it's own it is critical that you begin gently and slowly syringe feeding both water and food, Because if kitty doesn't eat for 2 to 3 days straight it will develop other complications and get even sicker. You can feed water and food simultaneously. Even though your baby is attempting to drink water it may not be taking enough in if this is the same virus and will end up dehydrated, which is what happened to mine. More than likely the cat is too weak to help himself to feed or to drink enough and he needs your help to get over the hardest part. I will be happy to provide my feeding technique if you would like me to. Just let me know. Also know that at least 90% of a cat's immune system is in the gut; probiotics will help balance the bacteria and also helps it through the nausea.Two of mine showed very quick rebound after probiotic use.
 
Amanda, I agree with Kris, I really think you should get your vet to see him again and do some further testing/investigation.
Phyllus said:
If your cat is not eating on it's own it is critical that you begin gently and slowly syringe feeding both water and food, Because if kitty doesn't eat for 2 to 3 days straight it will develop other complications and get even sicker.
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This is absolutely true. It sounds like Ham has already gone more than a day without eating. I am concerned that he will develop hepatic lipidosis and/or DKA on top of whatever is causing him to be ill in the first place. Please at least give the vet a call and update her and let her know Ham is still not eating.

For what it's worth, Convenia is not indicated as an effective antibiotic for feline urinary tract issues. It is designed to treat bacterial skin infections, primarily in dogs, and will not help treat urinary problems. I wouldn't worry about it right now, as Ham doesn't appear to be having problems with it, but it is definitely something to research when you get a chance.
 
I just tried taking him to the vet they quoted me &150 on the phone but when I got here they handed me an estimate of $ 543.59... I applied for care credit at which I go denied.... now Ham and I are sitting in the crying... I don't know what to do
 
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