? Ezzie: blood glucose

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Kath4158

Kath4158

Member Since 2017
Thank you to all of you that have been so helpful and SUPPORTIVE. This is all new and I'm trying to learn how to use this forum and navigation. That said if anyone has thoughts on the following items I would be grateful:
1. Anything to help with ezzies poor ears. I read here about bacitracin, I have a generic with a pain numbing component. I alternate days so I could put on the ear not getting poked. How ru removing then when it's that ears day? Are there other ways to do blood sugars without Ezzie ending up with pierced ears.

Second, ongoing saga with blood sugars and insulin dose
*i did reduce 5:30am insulin yesterday to 1.75 units (bg: 367-was bouncing from Sunday bg of 31, from what some said here).
*11:30 bg: 222
5:30pm: bg: 213. I contacted my local support and again a reduction was suggested. Decided to give her 0.5 unit

So today:
5:30 am: bg 163
* I HELD insulin all together, vet previous orders. We are in process of getting Ezzie in with a vet with more experience then this other, who started her on 2 units twice a day.

She's getting wet pp-DM ( for now ) will transfer to Florida- classic later
She's eating and litter box looking good, seems happy
Getting 1/2 can twice day, 1/4 can mid day, with deli turkey in between, then I leave out a small frozen wet food for over night.

Any thoughts on r we heading towards the right path?. Thank you

Ezzie bio:
12 yo female came into foster in October
Diagnosed: 2 weeks ago
Started on 2 units twice a day of lantus
Weight: 10.5#
 
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Good morning!

Sounds like things are looking up, it is great news that Ezzie is doing so well, eating and seeming happy!

I will leave dose questions to the more experienced members, but as for ears: neosporin/polysporin ointment (not cream) works well to speed healing. You can use the neosporin (or generic equivalent) with pain relief for a little extra oomph, but the main thing is the antibiotic properties. Just dab a bit on after the poke and wipe the excess off later. Another thing that helps a lot is to always apply a little pressure on the poke site after you are done with the test-- I just hold the ear lightly between a bit of tissue for about 20 seconds (or until my cat lets me know that she's done and would like her treat now, thank you very much!). That helps prevent bruising and speeds the healing.

Alternating ears and spots on the ears helps, and it all gets better over time. In the beginning, you often have to do multiple pokes to get a good drop, but as you keep doing it new capillaries form and the ears "learn" to bleed so there's much less ear-piercing going on.

Whoops, edit: you asked for alternatives to the ears. Some people have success with testing paw pads instead of ears-- you definitely have to use a larger-size lancet (26 or 28 gauge) for this, and success definitely depends on your cat's personality. I know not to even try with mine, she'd freak, but other people with calm and snuggly lap cats report it to be easier for them than ears.
 
Hey there! I am wondering if you know Ezzie history? Was she on a steroid for anything recently? The reason I ask, steroids can cause kitties to go into transient diabetes and after they start insulin and a low carb diet change they can sometimes go into remission.

With her having a skipped dose the night before last and a reduction dose to 0.5 last night and then to start off with 163 today, I would say she is heading in the right direction.

Can we get you go set up a Spread sheet and a signature? If you notice below Nan's and my post you will see SS and if you click on it you see the Spread sheets where we all put all our data which helps those that are helping advice you better to see trends and all the information in a linear way. This is the explanation of how to read the SS:

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over

Also, see the grey print under our post with all the pertinent information about our cats, name, DX date, insulin, weight, and what type of meter you are using, food feeding and anything else you want to share, other pets etc. Your have 3 lines to type. That way peeps won't have to ask you the same things over and over. Click in the upper right hand corner where you see your name. Then click on Signature. You will then be able to type everything in and save and we will be able to see it under your next post.

Since you didn't shoot insulin this AM, you can give Ezzie a pokey break but maybe a few tests prior to testing her at PM would be great so we can see how she did this cycle without any insulin. A test about 3-4 hours after what would have been her shot time and also one about 1 hour before her next shot and then post the result here so peeps can help guide you.

If you need help setting up the SS just yell an someone will help you. I couldn't figure it out so someone set mine up for me. I am a bit of a tech mo-mo :eek::rolleyes:
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey there! I am wondering if you know Ezzie history? Was she on a steroid for anything recently? The reason I ask, steroids can cause kitties to go into transient diabetes and after they start insulin and a low carb diet change they can sometimes go into remission.

With her having a skipped dose the night before last and a reduction dose to 0.5 last night and then to start off with 163 today, I would say she is heading in the right direction.

Can we get you go set up a Spread sheet and a signature? If you notice below Nan's and my post you will see SS and if you click on it you see the Spread sheets where we all put all our data which helps those that are helping advice you better to see trends and all the information in a linear way. This is the explanation of how to read the SS:

AMPS is the AM Pre-shot test (always test before shooting to make sure they're high enough to give insulin)...then the U column is for "Units" (how much you gave)

The +1, +2, +3, etc are for how many hours since shooting...so +2 is 2 hours after the AM shot, +9 is 9 hour after, etc.....Since we're all over the world here, saying "he was at 148 at 8pm" doesn't tell us anything...we need to know how long since his last shot

At the end of a 12 hour cycle, it's PMPS time! (PM Pre-shot) and the whole thing starts over

Also, see the grey print under our post with all the pertinent information about our cats, name, DX date, insulin, weight, and what type of meter you are using, food feeding and anything else you want to share, other pets etc. Your have 3 lines to type. That way peeps won't have to ask you the same things over and over. Click in the upper right hand corner where you see your name. Then click on Signature. You will then be able to type everything in and save and we will be able to see it under your next post.

Since you didn't shoot insulin this AM, you can give Ezzie a pokey break but maybe a few tests prior to testing her at PM would be great so we can see how she did this cycle without any insulin. A test about 3-4 hours after what would have been her shot time and also one about 1 hour before her next shot and then post the result here so peeps can help guide you.

If you need help setting up the SS just yell an someone will help you. I couldn't figure it out so someone set mine up for me. I am a bit of a tech mo-mo :eek::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
Hi there, saw bubbas SS, not much success on how to set up for Ezzie. The definition s were also most helpful. You all have been wonderful. So.....

*Can you tell me who to contact, tech support for help on th SS

Nervous about testing her bg at 5pm. She had no insulin this am, as bg was 163 ( was told to hold if under 200 by vet). She's eating, greeting people, seems pretty chill. Last time she had insulin was last night , 0.5 unit, lantus. She does seem better with not doing the 2 units BID.

Any thoughts anyone???
 
Thanks for all the help. We know very little about poor ms. Ezzie previous life. She has been doing well all day. BUT , major nerves on what her BG will be at 5pm. She hasn't had any insulin since last night (0.5 units/lantus). BG this am 163.........
 
I am going to tag @Marje and Gracie and hopefully she can help you. Post if you need guidance with the PMPS for shooting insulin. You can use the thread tools, click on that and use the ? mark in your title thread and say Dosing Advice Needed which will get attention on your thread. Try and get a +11 test to give peeps time to help decide. Where are you located?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I am going to tag @Marje and Gracie and hopefully she can help you. Post if you need guidance with the PMPS for shooting insulin. You can use the thread tools, click on that and use the ? mark in your title thread and say Dosing Advice Needed which will get attention on your thread. Try and get a +11 test to give peeps time to help decide. Where are you located?
Click to expand...

Located in Mn, currently 4:50pm
This will be a +12 test (? If I have this right, last BG was at 5am=136)
Sorry I haven't been very good on this posting and terminology stuff, trying to learn as much as fast as I can. Thanks to all of you for your help and patience. BG to follow shortly....
 
Kath4158 said:
Located in Mn, currently 4:50pm
This will be a +12 test (? If I have this right, last BG was at 5am=136)
Sorry I haven't been very good on this posting and terminology stuff, trying to learn as much as fast as I can. Thanks to all of you for your help and patience. BG to follow shortly....
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Okay, you are Central time and getting ready to test. Go ahead and post and I will be looking for you.

No apologies necessary. The Feline Diabetes is a learning curve enough let alone trying to learn how to navigate a forum. We will help you. :bighug:
 
Last insulin dose was last night at 5:30: 0.5 unit/ lantus
BG at 5 pm last night was : 213


Today: 1/24/17

At 5am: was: BG : 163 ( no insulin given)

Ok Ezzie BG at 5pm (cst): 312

Eating well, mood good,etc

I'm thinking give her: 1 unit , lantus at 5:30 pm ( due to fair response on 0.5 units last night, and everyone saying 2 units is a lot for newly diagnosed.) I like the go low and slow theory

Thoughts?
 
Kath4158 said:
I'm thinking give her: 1 unit , lantus at 5:30 pm (
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Ideally, we want to get her to where you can give her 2 shoots a day , 12 hours apart. I think if you are able to monitor tonight I would do the 1 unit. Get a +2 to see how active the cycle is going to be. If the +2 is the same number as tonight's preshot number 312 or lower, then it is going to be an active cycle and you will need to monitor her closely. Post for help if you need it.
 
Kath4158 said:
Thanks, I don't know what an active cycle means
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That mean that the insulin injection is going to bring the numbers down significantly and necessitating monitoring to keep Ezzie safe. If that were to happen, you would give her some of her food to slow the cycle down. And you can post for help if you see her getting too low and you need help. We have members from all over the world and almost always someone is around to help if you need it.

At 5:30 CST before you feed and shoot, get another test just for data's sake. You are doing great Kath!
 
Tell that to my nerves :)
Ezzies resting on her bed, purring, apparently her nerves are fine

Gave the food and shot, hubby watching her while I go to class
Will do another test at + 2 (7:30 pm cst) and will post
I give her a turkey snack at 9 pm, and a frozen wet for during the night
Thanks much, I'll post later for help
 
Ezzie tonight
Preshot at 5pm(cat): 312
5:30: gave 1 unit

+4= 213
Gave her her deli turkey snack
She gets a frozen wet for during the night
Trying to get help with spreadsheet to get going on that

Not sure how to interpret the BG drop
 
That was quite a drop. It will be interesting to see what her AMPS will be. I have tagged Marje to help with the SS and I see where Wendy tagged her also on another thread that you started. It will help to see all the data you have once it is into a SS.

Did you happen to get anymore test in last night?
 
Good morning, snowing in MN
Ezzie had a good night
AMPS : 282
5:30 insulin: 1 unit

Will do a +6

Am going to stick with 1 unit or less, as with 2 units BG seemed more up and down, she also had a big drop right after she came home and one followerer said she was bouncing. Also have to work tomorrow, 10 hour day. Lucky to have son who will check her mid- morning, lunch and mid afternoon.
Hoping to get SS up and running by the weekend.
Thanks for all the help

*can you tell me what a fur shot is, I tried a search here and looked through things but couldn't find a definition. Ez has thick black fur.
 
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A fur shot is when you try to give an insulin shot, and realize later that you didn't actually get it under the skin, it's all in the fur. Sometimes detected right away by wet fur or (in the case of Lantus) the distinctive band-aid like smell of the insulin, sometimes inferred later by the numbers. We have all done it a few times!

Looks like things are going pretty smoothly! A +6 is a great time for a spot check.

Glad Ezzie seems to be feeling well and is doing well with all the fussing around her! She sounds like a very sweet cat.
 
Kath4158 said:
tell me what a fur shot is, I tried a search here and looked through things but couldn't find a definition. Ez has thick black fur.
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Nan gave a good example of one, -- a kind of FS I use to do a lot when I had longer needles was: I wouldn't go in at a good angle and the needle ended up coming out the other side of the "tent" I made. :banghead: FS are such pains.
 
AMPS: 282
Gave : 1 unit lantus
+6: was 86

She's seeing different vet on Friday, but it seems she may also want her to go back up to 2 units BID. To me you would taper, starting with lower dose and track response, moving up if data supports that. Feels like no consistency for Ezz. Do your vets work with you on dosing. It feels like these guys want a one dose fits all kind of approach. I'm advocating to keep her on a low dose. Do they need to be on same BID dosing for 3 days prior to doing a curve? I feel like I pinball machine and poor Ezzie is the ball. Remember she's a foster (welfare cat as I call it). I don't feel they get the same attention/ importance in care.

Thanks

Any thoughts would be appreciated
 
Does she have access to low-carb food during the day? Would it be possible for you to give her a little snack now?

Here's why: her +6 number is great-- a totally normal blood glucose number for a cat!-- but it's a big drop from her AMPS, and although this should be the low point in the cycle, we don't yet know her patterns well enough to be sure she's not going to drop further into the danger (hypo) zone. A little snack will help to buffer her a little bit, but if you can also get another test at +7 to make sure she's not going down further, that would be great.

I don't understand why the vet would want to increase (double!) the dose given this response. Let's see if we can collect enough data before Friday to change her mind!
 
Oh wow, that's quite a response from her AMPS number. I am too new to give dosing advise so I won't, but I can just say seeing that 86 I personally would not increase the dose no matter what my vet said. Hopefully someone more experienced will help answer your questions more fully. Congrats on seeing green! You may want to get more tests in this afternoon to make sure she doesn't continue to drop too low.
 
Yes, she gets 3 wet meals a day( totals 1and 1/2 cans pp-DM, with deli turkey snacks(1-2 tablespoons) in between, gets 9pm turkey snack and a frozen wet for middle of night. Gave her her 1/4 can wet for lunch right after her + 6 = 86

First vet started her at 2 units BID. I'm not doing that but am afraid other vet on Friday may still want to go back to that dose. My thought was to try and keep her at one unit, BID. But if she goes below 200, I'm to hold the insulin. Right now the problem is no one is on same page, here in Mn. And I'm just the foster and caught, :(

Ill get a plus +8 right now, it's a bit past, and Ez is giving herself a bath, so.....

Thanks
 
OK, she's behaving herself and moving back up when she's supposed to!

More experienced folks will offer their opinions on this, but really, the 1U seems like it worked well for her today, it took her to normal numbers but not too far down. She'll probably bounce back up from here, but now we know what this dose can do for her!
 
Kath4158 said:
She's seeing different vet on Friday, but it seems she may also want her to go back up to 2 units BID. To me you would taper, starting with lower dose and track response, moving up if data supports that. Feels like no consistency for Ezz. Do your vets work with you on dosing. It feels like these guys want a one dose fits all kind of approach. I'm advocating to keep her on a low dose. Do they need to be on same BID dosing for 3 days prior to doing a curve? I feel like I pinball machine and poor Ezzie is the ball. Remember she's a foster (welfare cat as I call it). I don't feel they get the same attention/ importance in care.
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So sorry you have the added stress of differing opinions from the vet. Believe me, you aren't the only one on this board who is or had to deal with this. Thankfully you are home testing and some vets have actually even dissuaded caretakers from doing that! My vet is very supportive of my dosing decisions and knows I'm involved with this peer reviewed board. I liked Nan's suggestion regarding gathering more info to take to the new vet.
Again, there are more experienced people on here who may have specific suggestions on how best to deal with the vet.
You are doing a great job and I hope you won't get discouraged by frustration, we're here to help:cat:
 
Beautiful cycle today! And I would not take up her dose unless she starts running high. As far as the vets go, mine was trying to tell me I was running Bubba too low and wanted him off the insulin. I tried to explain that he was not ready yet ( this was back when he was on insulin for the 2nd time) and that I had to wean him down from the 1/2 unit he was on them to .10 to give him a better chance for remission. We went round and round and I finally had to say to her, "I'm good with the diabetes and the dosing; I brought Bubba here today for the gastritis, let's just focus on that please" She got it and now when I have been back, they do not try to give me advice with the insulin.

I understand you are in between a rock and hard place being a foster. Maybe you can develop a sweet look on your face and just nod.

Did you see Marje's response on the other thread you started yesterday? She said she would help you set up the SS.

ETA: No way do go back to 2 units at this time Ezzie is looking good.
 
So now the next dilemma:
If Ez is under 200 tonight, I'm suppose to hold the insulin

I've done that before with the following results:
1st time: ( had gotten 2 units that am with a AMPS of 272.)
+6 was 31
+12 was 113
HELD the insulin at the + 12 and next am she was : AMPS at 367

2nd time: AMPS was 163
HELD the insulin
At +12 she was at 312
Gave 1 unit
BG was 214 (three hours later,after the 1 unit of insulin)

To me it seems the one unit has less BG fluctuations

I have to work tomorrow, 10 hours.
So I worry about how much insulin to give depending on he BG
Son will stop by and give her a snack at 9-ish
I will get her lunch at 12:30-ish
Husband will be home by 2 to give her her next snack, until I get home at 5 to check her BG

I don't want her to bottom out. She did that initially 2 weeks ago and had to be rushed to vet, almost didn't get her back
Ps: I did start the conversation, as Marje asked , (I hope). The SS would be helpful about now
 
We figure what dose of Lantus to give based on how LOW that dose can take the cat, with minimal consideration to how high the cat is at preshot. Any dose of insulin that gets a cat to the 80's is a pretty good one. I would not increase her dose at this point.

People here will shoot lower than 200, but I'm reluctant to encourage you to do so until we have a spreadsheet with data set up so we can see how Ezzie is doing. So for now, skipping under 200 sounds like a plan. She could still zoom up before preshot time so a shot may still be possible. Over time we can lower that 200 number. Ezzie will get back on track OK if you have to skip.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
We figure what dose of Lantus to give based on how LOW that dose can take the cat, with minimal consideration to how high the cat is at preshot. Any dose of insulin that gets a cat to the 80's is a pretty good one. I would not increase her dose at this point.

People here will shoot lower than 200, but I'm reluctant to encourage you to do so until we have a spreadsheet with data set up so we can see how Ezzie is doing. So for now, skipping under 200 sounds like a plan. She could still zoom up before preshot time so a shot may still be possible. Over time we can lower that 200 number. Ezzie will get back on track OK if you have to skip.
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Thanks I gues I'd rather have her high then bottom out and go into hypoglycemic shock. It was bad, scary and stressful
 
Another option if you test and she's too low to shoot, is to stall. That means NOT feeding and testing again 1/2 later to see if she's come up enough to shoot.

Better safe than sorry any day!
 
Ez +12 was : 176
So I'll hold the insulin, and assume will be higher as has in past two other times, but will give only one unit, and then have the help coming in to check on her and give her her snacks/ food.

Thanks for all the help today, prayers for tomorrow to go well appreciated. I am a NP in psychiatry and have a full day of patients. I probably need an appointment with myself. :)
 
To piggy back off this thread - My cat Sophie was diagnosed this week. Gave her 2u vetsulin at 1am and again at 1pm. Fed her 1/2 can of w/d with a tbsp of dry mixed in. Tested her BG about 15 mins after 1pm food and shot and it read 182. I'm using a $10 Kroger brand glucometer. Vet didn't tell me to test blood but I decided to take control of the situation and educate myself. So, with that in mind, can anyone tell me if 182 is a decent reading? I know it may not be 100% accurate. But I want to adjust her food and or dose if I think it's needed. Thanks!
 
Hi @lbrown - it's great you are home testing, but you've just posted a question on a thread that is two months old and that cat is no longer on insulin. It'd be best if you go to the Feline Health Forum and start a new post for yourself. There is a button on the top right of the page called Post New Thread, select that. This forum is for users of Lantus/Levemir. As someone who has used Caninsulin/Vetsulin way back, I suggest you get a test 3 hours after your shot.
 
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