? New here. Kitty just diagnosed last week.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joan Strack

Joan Strack

Member Since 2017
Hi there. I'm new to all of this. My kitty was just diagnosed last week. Yesterday was 7 day on Insulin. She's on Vetsulin. 1 unit 2 times per day. When the vet diagnosed her, her Glucose was at 500. He showed me how to inject the insulin and did her first unit that evening. The next morning, I gave her another unit. That afternoon, I took her Glucose and it was around 260. It's been running 250 to 270. I take it in the evening before I give her her nightly unit.

Yesterday, her Glucose was at 340. Is that normal? That one day it might be running 260 or so and the next, it's up that much?

The vet said he is probably going to up her dose to 2 units two times a day. He said he likes to start out very low at one unit twice a day and see how it goes.

I had also started giving her Fancy Feast treats in these little packets. It's basically a one-inch piece of chicken that she eats while I get her shot ready.

Could that have anything to do with it?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Joan
 
Normal, at-home-measured BGs are generally below 120. Vet stress can rain BGs by 100 or more points.
Joan Strack said:
The vet said he is probably going to up her dose to 2 units two times a day
Click to expand...
Were the reported BGs measured at home?
Even if measured at home I would not start with two units of insulin.
Did the vet say what type of insulin?
@page { margin: 0.79in } p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; direction: ltr; color: #00000a; line-height: 120%; text-align: left; orphans: 2; widows: 2 } p.western { font-family: "Calibri", serif; font-size: 11pt; so-language: en-US } p.cjk { font-family: "Calibri"; font-size: 11pt; so-language: en-US } p.ctl { font-family: ; font-size: 11pt; so-language: ar-SA } a:link { color: #0000ff }
Good insulins are the human Lantus and Levemir and the pet insulins ProZinc and BCP PZI. For those two human insulin it is best to get the 5 pack of 3 ml disposable pens via a 10 ml vial. Although per ml the vial is less expensive most cats will not use up a 10 ml vial before the insulin goes bad/becomes ineffective. The human insulin N/NPH is sometimes prescribed but only lasts 8-10 hours. Same for the pet insulin Vetsulin/Caninisulin.
 
Hi

Yes, I did the measures at home. She is on Vetsulin.

She is having one unit twice a day. He wanted to see how 1 unit twice a day was going. I am meeting with him next week to look at her readings.

Thanks
 
Hi Joan...Elmo was on vetsulin for several months and an important thing to know is that there must be food in their little bellies before shooting....preferably for 20-30 minutes before giving insulin . So you would test BG with glucometer, feed for 20 minutes at least and once sure good amount has been eaten then give the insulin.
 
Good food to start out with is Fancy Feast classics. If you check out catinfo.org Dr Lisa has foods listed along with their carb content...staying below 10 % carbs is where u want to be.
 
Joan Strack said:
Thank you so much Beth 73. That's excellent to know! I appreciate it :)
Click to expand...
Very welcome !!! You have come to the best place ever for your kitty...the wonderful folks here will love and care for your kitty as tho it were their own . Although I don't feel qualified to do dose advice there will be people along soon who can. Maybe keep posting here and vetsulin as you are new and more eyes will see you here on main. Tagging now so you can ask more detailed questions. :bighug: @MrWorfMen's Mom @Kris & Teasel
 
Hi Joan.

Welcome to you and your beautiful girl. What's her name?

Are these the treats that you've been giving?

Screenshot%2B2016-12-10%2Bat%2B3.32.06%2BPM.png


https://www.fancyfeast.com/gourmet-...ely-treats/purely-natural-chicken-cat-treats/


Mogs
.
 
Hi Critter Mom! Thanks so much. I'm so glad to have some support. Her name is Sophie and she's around 7 I think. She was a rescue and the rescue peeps thing she might have been about a year when they rescued her.

And yes! Those are the exact treats I've been giving her while I get her shot ready. I found them at Wal Mart and thought I might try them since they didn't seem to have any gravy or anything on them. She loves them. What do you think of them?

Thanks!
Joan
 
Those Fancy Feast treats look great, just plain chicken. A lot of us also use freeze-dried chicken treats (Purebites is one brand, another new one is Life Essentials).

Anyway those treats shouldn't be causing a spike in blood glucose, other than the usual increase in numbers an hour or so following any food. It's pretty normal for a diabetic cat to range pretty widely in numbers before becoming regulated, unless the higher numbers are sustained over several days (in which case there might be an infection or other trouble brewing) I wouldn't worry about a 100-pt difference per se.

I am a little worried about the upcoming increase from 1-2U of Vetsulin for a cat that is typically in the mid-200's before her shot, and I'm hoping some of the people with experience with Vetsulin will weigh in on that. It's so great that you are able to get these tests in, by the way! Are you ever able to test in between shots? Those tests can tell you even more about what a given dose of insulin is doing, and that knowledge is the best way to keep Sophie safe!

Edited to add: forgot to say-- welcome!
 
Thanks so much @Nan & Amber. I really appreciate the response. It's good to know it can range that widely before she's really regulated. I will check her today again and see how it goes.

I'm also glad the treats are good. I worried a bit about them, but she just loves them - and they are perfect to keep her busy while I get her shot ready.

@Beth 73 mentioned 'that there must be food in their little bellies before shooting....preferably for 20-30 minutes before giving insulin'. Is there a good canned food I could give her before? I saw some Fancy Feast choices on the site I was given.

My vet hasn't seen her numbers yet - so he may look at them and decide 1 unit twice a day is doing well. I know nothing about what normal is honestly, so I will talk with him this weekend when I take my other kitty in for her vaccinations.

I have 4 cats, so I also can't really feed Sophie a special food, and keep her out of the community food bowl. Right now they are all on dry food. Hills Science Diet M/D. Give one of my cats horrible gas. I'm hoping once they get used to it - that goes away. He can clear out a room! :eek:

I really, really appreciate all the great responses. I feel much better now. It would break my heart if anything happened to her because of my not knowing something.

Thanks again!
 
Fancy Feast pates (the "Classics" if you are in the U.S.) are a favorite around here, but a lot of people also use Friskies pates and a few other options. Most dry food isn't great for cats, particularly diabetic cats (they are almost all too high in carbs, even the "prescription" ones!), so maybe you'll be able to kill two birds with one stone by switching everyone over to wet and (hopefully) cutting down on the noxious gas attacks.

If you do start feeding Sophie low-carb wet food, though, it's doubly important that you monitor her glucose very closely while on insulin-- switching from the higher-carb dry food she's getting now to the low-carb can have a dramatic lowering effect on blood glucose. Which is great! But if you add insulin "on top" of that without realizing, it can be too much, and can actually lead to dangerously low blood glucose levels, so it requires great care during the process.

Glad to hear that upping the dose isn't a done deal and that your vet is going to look at the numbers first-- mid-200's is pretty good for just starting out on insulin, although as I said it's hard to know exactly what is going on with only the pre-shot numbers to look at so far. But, so far so good!
 
Hi Joan !!! When Elmo was diagnosed I went to Wal Mart and bought several of the Fancy Feast classics. Elmo can't have fish because of hyperthyroid so he mainly(right now;)) likes the FF Chicken Feast classic ...look over Dr Lisa's list and write down any from the Classics variety to try. It will be good for all of them unless they have a specific health issue. I have 13.yr old litter mate brothers who are on Hills c/d for urinary issues and I am searching for alternatives to this cos of high carb content. We have quite a scene when they feed...Elmo in the kitchen, Ben in laundry room and Chris in laundry bath cos he is slow eater and brother Ben would eat both their food :woot:. And I wonder what I use to do with all my free time :rolleyes: Why r they on m/d and what is carb content of it?.....high carbs is not good for any cat. Once I realized that I had to keep from kicking myself after all the money spent on special "prescription" food that was expensive and not good for them. Dr Lisa addresses this topic very well.
 
Thanks @Nan & Amber . Lots of good information here.

I will give some thought to moving them all to wet food. I think I can do it pretty easily - but with caution with Sophie.

And I am also glad to hear that the mid 200's is a good number for starting out.

I will keep you all posted! :bighug:

Thanks again!
 
@Beth 73 The vet recommended that food. I will talk to him when I am there this weekend about going to canned food. You are absolutely right. That dry food is expensive. I went and looked up the carb content and such and pasted it below. I hope you all can see it.

upload_2017-1-10_15-30-12.png


upload_2017-1-10_15-31-8.png


The vet had hoped that would being Sophie's numbers down. He said he'd had luck with other clients and this food.

However, if the wet food is lower in carbs - then that's even better.

Maybe my 23 lb guy will lose some weight too. :woot:

He's a lot of muscle - but he can stand to lose some weight! He's not diabetic - but I've been lucky with him so far.

Thanks everyone. You guys are awesome!
 
Hi Joan and Sophie, and welcome! Sophie is a beautiful girl!

My cat was also on Vetsulin when he was first diagnosed. Vetsulin is an "in-and-out" insulin comprised of two elements. One causes an fairly steep, sharp drop in blood glucose early in the cycle usually around 3 to 5 hours after administration, or what we would call +3 to +5, and the other brings on a gentler drop usually somewhere around +6 to +9. Some cats seem not to get a full 12-hour duration from Vetsulin: however, I never experienced this. It is very important to get some other, mid-cycle tests in, so you can begin to see how Sophie is responding to the insulin, and find the nadir (lowest point) of the cycle. We have a spreadsheet that we use to track bg, it is an invaluable tool to have, and it also helps us to be able to see it so we can help you. Here is the link to instructions for setting it up, and this is the link to learning how it works (don't be daunted, it's easy!) Most of us test at least three times a day; once before breakfast, once (or more) mid-cycle, and once at dinner. At mealtimes, we test, feed, then shoot. The reason you need to have food on board before shooting Vetsulin is so the food can help buffer that first, hard drop.

Diabetic kitties need to eat a diet of wet or canned food that is under 10% carbs. The Fancy Feast pate-style foods are mostly okay; you don't need an expensive or "prescription" food, they are, actually, frequently NOT good for your furbaby. The Hills Science Diet M/D dry food is very high in carbs, something like 35% if my memory is correct! However, any transition to wet food needs to be done slowly over several days. and you absolutely MUST be home testing. Blood glucose can drop dramatically when switching from high- to lo-carb food, and kitty needs to be monitored very closely to prevent hypoglycemia! I can't stress the importance of this enough! She will probably require a dose reduction once she is eating the appropriate food, or during the transition.

Mid-200s is not a terrible bg, you should not need a dose increase. We generally recommend that, if you are new to feline diabetes, you not shoot a number under 200 until you know how your kitty reacts to the insulin, but you and your vet can decide on a no-shoot number.

I have four cats, too. They were all dedicated kibble junkies, but we managed the switch to all-wet food pretty well, much to my surprise, lol, so it is do-able! Most of us feed several small meals a day rather than two large ones, easier on kitty tummies.

I am sure you and Sophie will do well! Don't hesitate to ask questions - the only stupid question is the one you don't ask! :):):)

 
Joan Strack said:
The vet recommended that food.
Click to expand...
Most vets, believe it or not, are not well-versed in diabetic diets. In vet school, they only get a half-day or so on feline nutrition, so it's not surprising. The salesman come to the office and tell the vets what a great food they're peddling and the vet thinks it sounds good when in fact, it really isn't. Actually, NO dry food is good for cats They are obligate carnivores (must eat meat to survive) and get most of their fluids from the meat they eat. Cats will not drink enough water to keep themselves well-hydrated. Some folks add a bit of warm water to their meals to help with hydration; mine get about a tablespoon with each meal.

Joan Strack said:
Thank you so very much @Squalliesmom.

I will download the spreadsheet and use it to start tracking!
Click to expand...

You are very welcome! :)

If you have any trouble setting up the spreadsheet just post for help and someone will be along to give you a hand!
 
Joan Strack said:
Thanks @Nan & Amber . Lots of good information here.

I will give some thought to moving them all to wet food. I think I can do it pretty easily - but with caution with Sophie.

And I am also glad to hear that the mid 200's is a good number for starting out.

I will keep you all posted! :bighug:

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Joan, I am so glad to hear the relief coming from you :bighug:.... a side note about your vet..like you I trust my vet, have gone there for over 15 years BUT I have learned from this board and Elmo's diagnosis that I must inform ( as u are) and think for myself. That although I trust my vet I must have my own info and opinions....for instance, my vet did not know that vetsulin can start as soon as 21 days after first puncture and that it should be thrown out at 28 days, sooner if numbers start changing for no reason...keep keeping an open mind here and you will have the best for Sophie.
 
Sorry, meant to type vetsulin can start TO POOP OUT as soon as 21 days .....ahhhhh, it's too,late for coffee and too early for bed for this kitty Momma :coffee:o_O:)
 
Beth 73 said:
Joan, I am so glad to hear the relief coming from you :bighug:.... a side note about your vet..like you I trust my vet, have gone there for over 15 years BUT I have learned from this board and Elmo's diagnosis that I must inform ( as u are) and think for myself. That although I trust my vet I must have my own info and opinions....for instance, my vet did not know that vetsulin can start as soon as 21 days after first puncture and that it should be thrown out at 28 days, sooner if numbers start changing for no reason...keep keeping an open mind here and you will have the best for Sophie.
Click to expand...
Actually, it can be used beyond the 28-day recommendation. I used mine for months, on the advice of my vet, and it was fine. Apparently the 28-day number is really more an arbitrary number concerned more with sterility than potency. Just stay alert for rising numbers in case it starts to poop out! Each vial of mine was good for over 4 months.
 
Squalliesmom said:
Actually, it can be used beyond the 28-day recommendation. I used mine for months, on the advice of my vet, and it was fine. Apparently the 28-day number is really more an arbitrary number concerned more with sterility than potency. Just stay alert for rising numbers in case it starts to poop out! Each vial of mine was good for over 4 months.
Click to expand...
Yes, u r correct ! I did experience poop out at 28-30 days...then would get paranoid and discard because of that o_O....that's great that yours lasted that long :)....my vet did not even know to tell me to watch it after 28 days...
 
Hi Joan,

Here's a link to the FDMB introductory guide to the insulin you're currently using:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/vetsulin-caninsulin-user-guide.302/

While the manufacturer of the insulin recommends doses to be increased by 1 unit at a time, FDMB advocates a 'start low, go slow with the insulin' approach because sometimes a 'good dose' for the cat may be skipped over if adjusting in such big steps; this can lead to problems with regulation and sometimes cats end up on too high a dose. (Both too much and too little insulin can drive BG higher.) Adjusting doses in increments smaller than 1 unit helps to reduce the chances of missing that 'goldilocks' dose. The dose can always be adjusted upwards. With your home testing you'll be able to track how well - and how safely - any given dose is working for Sophie.

Also here are some helpful stickies on safety and ketone testing:

How to treat hypos

Hypo toolkit

Are you testing for ketones?

Tips for catching and testing urine samples


Mogs
.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top