? Switching from vetsulin to prozinc: Part 4

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I skipped his shot tonight. Smoky does not seem to be feeling well over the past six weeks. His bloodwork came back normal although he does get flare ups from the pancreatitis. He just looks so miserable all the time since his diagnosis of FD.
He sleeps a lot and hides in corner behind TV stand. He doesn't want to socialize with me or the other cats. His current vet doesn't think he needs pain meds or doesn't want to prescribe them. The only time smoky seems happy is when he gets fed. He seems to not want to be touched or held at all even though he was a cuddly cat before the diabetes came about.
Sometimes I think he is afraid of me because I represent tests, shots, pills, etc.
He tries to avoid being tested even though I give him treats afterwards. Smokys BG's are definitely improving but his behavior is troubling at times. I am getting very stressed out about all this. Sorry, just venting I guess.:(
 
It is dismaying when they aren't acting the way they used to be. I imagine that things may be strange for him - lots of unusual things happening,

Maybe give him a treat when you aren't planning to give a shot or a test. And some extra pats and scratches? Does he like to be brushed - could that be something the two of you do together?

I know it is hard, but you know you are doing the best you can for him. And he is getting better. And yes, this is exactly the right place to vent.
 
Thank you so much Sue for the encouraging words. :bighug:He did love to be brushed but not right now since he is so thin. I like the idea of giving him treats sometimes without testing or giving a shot. I could just sit with him in his testing spot a few times and give extra attention and that's all. I hope that it will help him with the anxiety.
 
This is the place for venting, Lisa. This disease does take a toll on them. Teasel is often more lethargic, less playful, etc. than he was before the FD diagnosis. Their reaction to the insulin can be the cause of some of this and some people have found that a change to another type helps the kitty feel better. Do you think Smoky feels better, the same or worse on ProZinc as compared to Vetsulin? We know his numbers are much improved on ProZinc.
 
This is the place to vent! I do think that finding something he enjoys you can do together may help. Its possible hes still just getting used to the new normal. Maybe just extra positive attention will help.
 
More thoughts:
Smoky has been through a lot since you started down the FD road in September - UTI and protracted use of meds for that, weeks of poor numbers, an unfortunate fall that caused breathing problems. This is all on top of his preexisting health concerns. It's only since mid December that he's spent time in consistently much better numbers. I think it takes a fair bit of time for the better BGs to translate into a happier, healthier kitty.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
This is the place for venting, Lisa. This disease does take a toll on them. Teasel is often more lethargic, less playful, etc. than he was before the FD diagnosis. Their reaction to the insulin can be the cause of some of this and some people have found that a change to another type helps the kitty feel better. Do you think Smoky feels better, the same or worse on ProZinc as compared to Vetsulin? We know his numbers are much improved on ProZinc.
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Smoky was very depressed after being on the vetsulin for over a month. He was on that for 2 and a half months. He has not been on the prozinc for that long yet. He does seem to feel worse in some ways now than while on vetsulin. I have been trying not to rush him as its only been about 6 weeks on the prozinc .
 
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Smoky: 316 AMPS which is not bad considering no insulin for 24 hours.
I looked at his SS and on 1/2/17 in am I gave him 2 units, BG was 303. That was the day he had that nice blue surf going on.:) I think it's a good idea to give him same dose for am today.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Smoky: 316 AMPS which is not bad considering no insulin for 24 hours.
I looked at his SS and on 1/2/17 in am I gave him 2 units, BG was 303. That was the day he had that nice blue surf going on.:) I think it's a good idea to give him same dose for am today.
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Sounds like a plan. :)
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Smoky was very depressed after being on the vetsulin for over a month. He has not been on the prozinc for that long yet. He does seem to feel worse in some ways now than while on vetsulin. I have been trying not to rush him as its only been about 6 weeks on the prozinc .
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Interesting about the comparison between Vetsulin and ProZinc. It's wise to keep track of clinical signs in addition to BG numbers. Not rushing him is best, though.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Smoky PMPS at 239, trying to decide between 1.5 and 2 units. I really don't think 1.5 is enough though. Maybe 1.75u?
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I'd go with 1.75 u. Can you do a before bed test?

Not wanting to be a PITA, Lisa, but have you considered starting a new SS for 2017 so we can get to your current info faster?
 
I thought it was a year from when I started the spreadsheet in Sept. How do I start a new one? I shld be able to do a before bed test
 
I just did something for the first time. I gave smoky his shot but noticed when I was removing the syringe he had two tiny blood spots on his hair. He was not wanting to stay too still and yowled when I gave him the shot. Did I nick a vein and is that bad? I don't know if that happened while giving the shot or if I nicked his skin on the outside while pulling out the syringe?
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I just did something for the first time. I gave smoky his shot but noticed when I was removing the syringe he had two tiny blood spots on his hair. He was not wanting to stay too still and yowled when I gave him the shot. Did I nick a vein and is that bad? I don't know if that happened while giving the shot or if I nicked his skin on the outside while pulling out the syringe?
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Hard to say, Lisa. The occasional wonky shot is something that happens to all of us. You might have broken some capillaries or even a tiny vein. I don't think there are big veins in the skin and I doubt that the dose went in as though it was a true intravenous injection. Teasel complains sometimes when I inject and it's almost always my technique that has slipped. We do the best we can do ...
 
How would I know if it was a intravenous injection or not? I have trouble sometimes getting his skin to form a tent. He is very thin and recovering from being slightly dehydrated. @Chris & China posted somewhere once that you can grab skin and roll it to one side and give the injection that way. Will have to see if I can find her post on that.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
How would I know if it was a intravenous injection or not? I have trouble sometimes getting his skin to form a tent. He is very thin and recovering from being slightly dehydrated. @Chris & China posted somewhere once that you can grab skin and roll it to one side and give the injection that way. Will have to see if I can find her post on that.
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I'm almost 100% certain that it wasn't intravenous, Lisa, because it's tricky to get a needle properly situated in a vein. Think about the technique that's used when you have blood work done yourself.

Do you inject Smoky in the scruff or along his sides? I use both areas but find that Teasel's side skin is thinner and looser so it's easier to make a good tent.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
that you can grab skin and roll it to one side and give the injection that way
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You grab some fur between your thumb and forefinger and then "roll" your wrist to pull the skin away from the muscle and "shoot" where the fur parts....this isn't a great picture, but it gives the general idea
china skin.jpg
 
I use the scruff, shoulders, and sides but it is hard to inject on his side when he is so thin. He is at a poor rating on the cat body scale. His spine and hip bones are prominent and he has almost no body fat. The vets I've taken him to said once he becomes regulated he will put the weight back on. I just hate seeing him look so sad all the time.:blackeye:
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I thought it was a year from when I started the spreadsheet in Sept. How do I start a new one? I shld be able to do a before bed test
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First, you need to delete all those extra sheets. If you click on the tab for each one, you'll get a dropdown arow. Select "delete". When you get all the ones entitled "Sheet x" where "x" is a number, then next go to the one entitled "Template". Click on it and when you get the dropdown arrow, select "duplicate" and it will make a tab entitled "copy of template". Click the dropdown arrow again and select "rename" and type in "2017". Then click and hold on the 2017 tab and drag it all the way to the left so that when we click on your SS link in FDMB, that's the SS we see first.

If you have any problems, please PM me.
 
Smoky was 203 for AMPS today, I am working so can't monitor. I'm thinking 1.75u again this morning as 1.5 doesn't seem to be enough. I didn't get a chance to get in a before bed test last night.
Any thoughts on dose to give?
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
Smoky was 203 for AMPS today, I am working so can't monitor. I'm thinking 1.75u again this morning as 1.5 doesn't seem to be enough. I didn't get a chance to get in a before bed test last night.
Any thoughts on dose to give?
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I think I saw that you gave a "fat" 1.5 u and called it 1.6 u for this AM. He'll be fine with that. I'm usually a bit later on here than you are in the AM because I'm involved in cat feedings and Teasel duties before I get to the computer.
 
Smoky was 234 for PMPS tonight, he was at 239 last night. I gave him 1.75 units last night. Is it safe to give him 2u tonight or stick with the 1.75u? I'm home the next two days so can get in a few extra tests those days.
 
I'll be going on to part 5 soon as this thread is starting to get a little long.
Smoky seems to be having a better day today. He was purring and laying on my bed with me. He seems to feel better with lower doses of prozinc.
I noticed that he seems to get very tired about an hour after his shot. He looks as though he doesn't feel well, especially the first half of the cycle.
I don't know what to think other than that he might need another type of insulin. The L insulins would be difficult to give as I need more flexibility with dosing.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I'll be going on to part 5 soon as this thread is starting to get a little long.
Smoky seems to be having a better day today. He was purring and laying on my bed with me. He seems to feel better with lower doses of prozinc.
I noticed that he seems to get very tired about an hour after his shot. He looks as though he doesn't feel well, especially the first half of the cycle.
I don't know what to think other than that he might need another type of insulin. The L insulins would be difficult to give as I need more flexibility with dosing.
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I'm glad he's feeling better today. I know what you mean about the lethargy in the first half of the cycle. I see it in teasel too, some days more so than others. If you want to get more info about possible dosing flexibility on L insulin you could post with a question mark on that forum.
 
I don't know how long I shld keep him on the prozinc before trying out another insulin. He started using this vial on 11/23/16 but it seems to be working still.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
I don't know how long I shld keep him on the prozinc before trying out another insulin. He started using this vial on 11/23/16 but it seems to be working still.
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I suggest learning as much as you can about the L insulins including whether you can fit the dosing into your schedule, how to make the transition from ProZinc, etc. As for the ProZinc, it's probably good for a while yet while you do some research and while you track how Smoky feels on lower doses. If you're quite convinced that the ProZinc is making him feel worse then you'll be able to move forward knowledgeably.
 
I wanted to see how he acts on the lower dose. I can monitor him today to watch for clinical signs. :) He is eating his lunch now so I'll wait for him to finish that.
I'll wait and test him two hours after that and see how he is doing.
 
I might wait until +8 to test him today. I'm thinking about doing a mini curve tomorrow. He is giving me the " don't bother me look".
 

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You can see from the pic just how thin he really is. He is up to 8 lbs 10 oz as of last night. He is eating a lot of food though.
He seems better on the lower doses but then his BG's are higher. o_O I am really trying to give him a break and hang out and give him lots of attention today.:smuggrin:
 
Smoky woke up and was looking for food. I tested him at +7 and his BG had gone down to 93. I gave him his dinner early and he is now sleeping by the heater again. It's cold here in PA, 23 degrees but feels like 7. Brrr!
 
Have you tried a lower carb but higher calorie food to get his weight up? The food chart on catinfo.org might give you some ideas. Some people add chicken pieces to the canned food to increase the calories. You can bake a chicken breast without spices, cut it up in small pieces and give him a few pieces each meal.
 
I forgot that Smoky is allergic to chicken when I agreed with Sue's suggestion to give him some extra low carb calories. Is there another meat that he likes that you could cook and add to his canned food? He might feel better in other ways if he had a bit more weight on him. I understand the extra challenge of having to work around allergies.
 
He loves turkey and pork, he gets those for a treat after his tests and shots.
The FF is too low calorie for him I think.
He doesn't like Friskies and will only eat nine lives on occasion. It's hard finding food he can eat. Although, he does eat 4 or 5 cans a day of the FF and they are almost 100 calories per can.
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
He loves turkey and pork, he gets those for a treat after his tests and shots.
The FF is too low calorie for him I think.
He doesn't like Friskies and will only eat nine lives on occasion. It's hard finding food he can eat. Although, he does eat 4 or 5 cans a day of the FF and they are almost 100 calories per can.
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If turkey and pork agree with him then you can add those to increase his caloric intake. Does he seem to be very carb sensitive? I know you had to treat that hypo recently and used higher carb food then. I'm asking because some diabetic kitties do better on slightly higher carb food. Something to experiment with?
 
How can I tell if he is carb sensitive?
I can tell you that his BG's go up when I give him food that is above 10% carbs. His numbers have dropped down too fast when food is very low in carbs, under 3%
 
Lisa and Smoky said:
How can I tell if he is carb sensitive?
I can tell you that his BG's go up when I give him food that is above 10% carbs. His numbers have dropped down too fast when food is very low in carbs, under 3%
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Maybe you have an answer right there. You need to give him food that's low carb but not extreme. I was just wondering if he was a kitty that did better at 8-10% carbs versus 3 - 5% carbs. Carb sensitive kitties like Steph's Chuck have BGs that go very high if they eat a crumb of kibble. That's very carb sensitive.

I'd say, then, you might want to try a little program of calorie enhancement using meat he likes and tolerates.
 
When smoky gets into the kibble my roommates cats eat his BG shoots up. I guess that means he is carb sensitive.
I'll be back soon, have to test him for PMPS.
 
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