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Cali Cat and Rosi

Cali Cat and Rosi

Member Since 2017
I didn't realize I was posting on someone else's thread. Sorry about that Tallulah, Cricket and anyone else. I thank all of you for your input. Ive added the url for the thread as suggested.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cricket-recently-diagnosed.169622/#post-1862389

Before I left to volunteer I checked cali's BG = 10.9 @ noon, I gave her a few table spoons of food as I new I wouldn't be home till 5pm and would miss her 3pm freakout. Her PMPS BG=17 (@5:15pm) I've begun feeding her and will test her again before dosing. I've gone through 52 strips since Monday evening, most went into the garbage. At $85 for a box of 100strips I don't know how I will afford all this stuff as I am on ODSP (government assistance) due to a car accident and being unable to work full time. I really need to find a part time job asap!
 
You will go through a lot of strips, especially at the beginning. Strips in Canada are expensive. I don't know what metre you are using. Look to see if the same strips are available cheaper on the other side of the border. It's a short drive. You could stock up.
 
@Critter Mom do you, or anyone else who's been reading and replying to Cali's previous thread found here:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cricket-recently-diagnosed.169622/#post-1862389

Do you think all these high numbers are due to my accidentally dosing her on the morning of Jan 3 2017 when her AMPS BG= 5.6 before eating and AMPS BG=6 after eating? I was so nervous and flustered that I gave her the 1u of caninsulin and I haven't seen BG below 10 since that same day at 2pm.
* I am mistaken, her BG=8 at 3am on January 4th/17 which was +7hrs after pm dose on the 3rd.
 
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Chris & China said:
I think you have to order it so it may take a little time to get to you, but this Bravo Meter is supposed to be one of the cheapest in the way of strips available in Canada
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WOW the strips for that meter are half ($39 box of 100!) as much as the Accu-chek Aviva which is what I have $85 box of 100.. I didn't know what to get and struggled for several days than I finally went to walmart and grabbed one.. I can't afford to buy another one right now but may consider it once I finish my strips off. I would save 50% every box of strips. I went with the accu chek only because it was ranked #1 in the Consumer report. I am the kind of person that does not make decisions easily and would rather have someone tell me what to buy or where to eat etc...
Do you know if this is a reputable meter for use with our kitties?
 
Chris & China said:
I think you have to order it so it may take a little time to get to you, but this Bravo Meter is supposed to be one of the cheapest in the way of strips available in Canada
Click to expand...
It's harder to use than the FreeStyle Lite that I had. All what you become used to, I guess. You have to use the end of the strip (not the little nib on the side), and it requires the larger drop of blood. You can only get strips from the company. Side-by-side, it read higher than my FreeStyle Lite - but each meter is different.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
It's harder to use than the FreeStyle Lite that I had. All what you become used to, I guess. You have to use the end of the strip (not the little nib on the side), and it requires the larger drop of blood. You can only get strips from the company. Side-by-side, it read higher than my FreeStyle Lite - but each meter is different.
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My strips sip the blood from the end of the strip also, not the side. As someone on an extremely tight budget I will consider switching to it however I don't like that they're not easily accessible. I guess that's what credit cards are for, luckily I recently paid most of them off so there's lots of room ;)
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
My strips sip the blood from the end of the strip also, not the side. As someone on an extremely tight budget I will consider switching to it however I don't like that they're not easily accessible. I guess that's what credit cards are for, luckily I recently paid most of them off so there's lots of room ;)
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If you order when you get down to 100-150 strips. And you always want to keep a bottle in your hypo kit.
 
Members following Cali and Rosi: Here's a link to Rosi's earlier posts and replies:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/cricket-recently-diagnosed.169622/#post-1860564

---------------------------------------------------------------

Rosi,

Both Linda (@MrWorfMen's Mom) and myself are concerned that the Canisulin dose may be too high. If you check back on your other thread we've explained the reasoning (possible rebound hyperglycaemia driving numbers up because dose is too strong). Linda has made a suggestion about dosing in her post on that thread. Both of us have recommended that you let your vet know what's happening about Cali's BG numbers and - very importantly - about the changes in her behaviour since starting on the 1.0IU dose of Caninsulin.

NB: if she is bouncing her numbers might drop down again tomorrow so be very careful to monitor her. If you need to go out be sure to leave out plenty of food for her (including some of the dry food for grazing - better too high for a day than too low for a minute, as is often said on FDMB. :) ). When you get a safe dose sorted out you can work on refining the diet side of things after that.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I am on ODSP (government assistance) due to a car accident and being unable to work full time
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In a similar boat here. I feel for you. (((Rosi)))


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Rosi,

Both Linda (@MrWorfMen's Mom) and myself are concerned that the Canisulin dose may be too high. If you check back on your other thread we've explained the reasoning (possible rebound hyperglycaemia driving numbers up because dose is too strong). Linda has made a suggestion about dosing in her post on that thread. Both of us have recommended that you let your vet know what's happening about Cali's BG numbers and - very importantly - about the changes in her behaviour since starting on the 1.0IU dose of Caninsulin.

NB: if she is bouncing her numbers might drop down again tomorrow so be very careful to monitor her. If you need to go out be sure to leave out plenty of food for her (including some of the dry food for grazing - better too high for a day than too low for a minute, as is often said on FDMB. :) ). When you get a safe dose sorted out you can work on refining the diet side of things after that.


In a similar boat here. I feel for you. (((Rosi)))


Mogs
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Thanks for the advice and I will definitely be calling the vet today to book an appt for asap. Do you see the same vet when you bring your babies in to the vet? They always have different ones when I go in so I was trying to book with the same doc each time. He originally wanted to start cali off on 3u of caninsulin but I asked if that was too high (not that I know anything about diabetes). After I said that he dropped it down to 1u. If the collective here is that 1u may be too high I am left thinking what would've happened had I not spoken up and just accepted his initial px.

Thanks to Mogs and @MrWorfMen's Mom for your help and advice during this trying time. I guess I will go out today and buy a small bag of dry food since I donated it all yesterday. I do have to go out today and wont be here for Cali's mid day snack attack, I will leave out some dry to satiate her until I'm home for dinner.
What dry food do you recommend for Cali or should I just get the same stuff I was feeding her prior which was a mixture of Whiskas Diet and maybe Friskys or Meow mix?
 
Hi, Rosi. :)

I'd suggest getting the same dry food Cali has been eating before because you know it helped to keep her safe. It's something you'll need for her hypo kit anyway. If you haven't already got some at home I recommend you pick up a couple of cans of high carb wet cat food in gravy for your hypo toolkit. In the US members usually use Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers but I'm not sure whether that's available in Canada. (@MrWorfMen's Mom, @Red & Rover (GA): can you recommend a good Canadian food choice for this purpose, please?) Here's a link to the forum stickies about how to manage hypos and also what to keep in the toolkit:

How to treat hypos (Usual tip is to print this out and keep it somewhere you can lay your hands on it quickly should you ever need it.)

Hypo toolkit (Check this out before you go shopping today.)

You can always post here for help if you are uncertain what to do. Just for background info, how far away are you from the nearest vet/veterinary ER?

BTW, Cali has the loveliest little face! (((Cali))) :cat:


Mogs
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Our practice has three vets, and for our diabetic and the other kids with chronic health issues, I do try to keep the same cat going to the same doctor (unless it is an emergency of course and then we'll see whoever's available). I like that they have the full history already for consistency.
 
My vet is part of a huge ER/ICU/ 24/7 clinic of 14 vets. I also book with the same vet for consistency, etc. She happens to be the one that has an interest in FD but my kitties have seen her for many other things over the years.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
My vet is part of a huge ER/ICU/ 24/7 clinic of 14 vets. I also book with the same vet for consistency, etc. She happens to be the one that has an interest in FD but my kitties seen her for many other things over the years.
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Ok thanks, and what about fur shots? I think I missed when I dosed cali this morning. I am pretty sure I missed but I am not 100% sure. What should I do?
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Do you see the same vet when you bring your babies in to the vet? They always have different ones when I go in so I was trying to book with the same doc each time. He originally wanted to start cali off on 3u of caninsulin but I asked if that was too high (not that I know anything about diabetes). After I said that he dropped it down to 1u. If the collective here is that 1u may be too high I am left thinking what would've happened had I not spoken up and just accepted his initial px.
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Forgot to reply to the above! :oops: :rolleyes:

There are several vets at our practice, too. I have one 'main vet' whom I prefer to see and a 'second line' vet also. For anything really case-oriented I try to get to see either of these vets because they are both very familiar with the full medical history, they really care about their patients, and they are happy to work collaboratively with me (makes a world of difference!). For routine stuff like blood draws or vitamin B12 it doesn't matter to me which vet at the practice does those (and they're all really nice at the practice). In an emergency I am relieved to see whichever of the vets is on call at that time.

Good call on questioning the Caninsulin dose at the start, Rosi; the maximum starting dose recommended by the manufacturer of Caninsulin is 2.0 units (for cats of sufficient weight with BGs consistently above 20mmol/L (360mg/dL) prior to commencement of treatment). It's also necessary to monitor response to the starting dose to check for safety and duration. I know things are quite overwhelming in the early days after Dx but your instincts are really good, Rosi, and you're doing a great job with the home testing.

Have you managed to test Cali's urine for ketones at all?


Mogs
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Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Ok thanks, and what about fur shots? I think I missed when I dosed cali this morning. I am pretty sure I missed but I am not 100% sure. What should I do?
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Don't do anything, Rosi. Just wait till the time the next dose is due then do your regular preshot BG check, etc.

We all do fur shots from time to time (or sometimes the kitty will move away while you're in the middle of administering the dose!) but there is no way to determine whether or not any insulin has got into the kitty so the rule is never try to give more insulin after a messed-up injection and always wait until the next regular shot time.

It is still good practice to do your mid-cycle BG checks even if you're not sure whether any insulin went in.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Forgot to reply to the above! :oops: :rolleyes:

There are several vets at our practice, too. I have one 'main vet' whom I prefer to see and a 'second line' vet also. For anything really case-oriented I try to get to see either of these vets because they are both very familiar with the full medical history, they really care about their patients, and they are happy to work collaboratively with me (makes a world of difference!). For routine stuff like blood draws or vitamin B12 it doesn't matter to me which vet at the practice does those. In an emergency I am relieved to see whichever of the vets is on call at that time.

Good call on questioning the Caninsulin dose at the start, Rosi; the maximum starting dose recommended by the manufacturer of Caninsulin is 2.0 units (for cats of sufficient weight with BGs consistently above 20mmol/L (360mg/dL) before treatment commences. It's also necessary to monitor response to the starting dose to check for safety and duration. I know things are quite overwhelming in the early days after Dx but your instincts are really good, Rosi, and you're doing a great job with the home testing.

Have you managed to test Cali's urine for ketones at all?


Mogs
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Thanks for your kind words as it is very overwhelming.

I asked my vet about Ketones and he said I did not need to worry about that. I looked at him curiously because I have been reading tons about checking Ketones and don't understand why he told me I didnt need to check for them. I guess this is why I am asking about vet use, I am thinking of requesting a vet that might have more experience with FD and is readily available as the current vet only works Mondays and does surgery on Fridays. So his time is limited. With me questioning his initial dose for Cali and than the Ketones I am not sure about his experience or exposure of FD.
 
Critter Mom said:
Don't do anything, Rosi. Just wait till the time the next dose is due then do your regular preshot BG check, etc.

We all do fur shots from time to time (or sometimes the kitty will move away while you're in the middle of administering the dose!) but there is no way to determine whether or not any insulin has got into the kitty so the rule is never try to give more insulin after a messed-up injection and always wait until the next regular shot time.

It is still good practice to do your mid-cycle BG checks even if you're not sure whether any insulin went in.


Mogs
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Great thanks Mogs! I will keep overly checking her BG today while I am home lol... I think I will stop checking so much, maybe only 1-2 mid cycle checks down from my 5 or more current checks once I am more comfortable. I want my baby to live a long healthy life. I almost didn't make it after Bender passed in July 2015, had it not been for Cali and her affection and mourning with me. Which is why I owe it to her to do the best I can with her Dx and keep her happy and healthy.
 
IMG_1105.JPG IMG_1059.JPG IMG_1060.JPG IMG_1062.JPG

RIP BENDER 1999-2015
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Great thanks Mogs! I will keep overly checking her BG today while I am home lol... I think I will stop checking so much, maybe only 1-2 mid cycle checks down from my 5 or more current checks once I am more comfortable.
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At the moment you're right to keep checking regularly throughout the day because of the question mark over Cali's dose.

As long as Cali tests negative for ketones and is eating OK we could do more to support you in real time via the board with the feeding and dosing side of things over the next few days. If you can resolve those then things would get a lot more straightforward for you. All the BG data and info on clinical signs/behaviours you are gathering is extremely valuable and it will help guide your efforts to help Cali become better regulated.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I want my baby to live a long healthy life. I almost didn't make it after Bender passed in July 2015, had it not been for Cali and her affection and mourning with me. Which is why I owe it to her to do the best I can with her Dx and keep her happy and healthy
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I'm very sorry over your loss of Bender but grateful that Cali has been there to love and comfort you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

We'll do all we can to help you help your precious baby.

(((Cali and Rosi)))


Mogs
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What wonderful photographs! Thank you so much for sharing them with us, Rosi. Easy to see why yourself and Cali miss Bender so deeply; you are all incredibly close to each other.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Seeing the closeness shared by Cali and Bender has brought me back to your question about whether grief might have been a contributing factor in Cali's diabetes. One of our members in France (Sophie, member name Capoo) lost her dog, Anoushka, at the end of 2015. Anoushka and her cat, Capoo, were also very close to each other and Capoo definitely went into mourning at being parted from her dear friend. Not long after that Capoo was diagnosed with diabetes.

I wonder whether you may indeed be right about grief being a potential trigger for type II diabetes? The level of the glucocorticoid, cortisol, in the body tends to become elevated in those who are bereaved and higher levels of cortisol (and other steroids) have a detrimental effect on blood glucose regulation.


Mogs

ETA:

Related Links:

- Neutrophil function and cortisol : DHEAS ratio in bereaved older adults

- The Role of Cortisol and Abdominal Obesity in the Epidemic of Type 2 Diabetes

- Glucocorticoids and Type 2 Diabetes: From Physiology to Pathology
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Critter Mom said:
What wonderful photographs! Thank you so much for sharing them with us, Rosi. Easy to see why yourself and Cali miss Bender so deeply; you are all incredibly close to each other.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Seeing the closeness shared by Cali and Bender has brought me back to your question about whether grief might have been a contributing factor in the diabetes. One of our members in France (Sophie, member name Capoo) lost her dog, Anoushka, at the end of 2015. Anoushka and her cat, Capoo, were also very close to each other and Capoo definitely went into mourning at being parted from her dear friend. Not long after that Capoo was diagnosed with diabetes.

I wonder whether you may indeed be right about grief being a potential trigger for type II diabetes? The level of the glucocorticoid, cortisol, in the body tends to become elevated in those who are bereaved and higher levels of cortisol (and other steroids) have a negative impact on blood sugar regulation.


Mogs
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Yes they were very close. As you can see in the one picture Cali is licking Ben's lips and they would take turns grooming each other. It was a beautiful sight to see these supposed natural enemies always cuddling and playing together. Even when Ben would push cali too far lol..

I also had another thought last night as I am a smoker, in the house, and know smoking causes diabetes in humans who smoke. I hope this isn't may fault; I can live with damaging my own body but hate the idea that I might have contributed to an others poor health...

2017 will be a year of health for Cali and Myself. Time for some serious life changes!
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Do you know if this is a reputable meter for use with our kitties?
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Hi Rosa, I see Red & Rover gave you some first hand experience with the Bravo meter and my main concern would be the larger blood drop required. The Bravo meter got a good review from some specialists at St.Mikes hospital in Toronto so it seems it's deemed a good meter for humans. Since no one "tests" human meters on cats for accuracy, we really can only go by word of mouth and reports from human users/medical personnel. The reference numbers provided here do provide a little cushion anyway and all meters have to comply with Health Canada standards so I think the Bravo meter is certainly a viable option for you. The caveat to the meter is that the strips can only be ordered online so you will need to be sure to keep a supply on hand. If you can make up an order of I think $150.00 then delivery is free and the meter is free with purchase of a vial of strips. Since you already have the Aviva, you could keep it for a backup and in case you ever run short of strips for the Bravo meter.

Critter Mom said:
In the US members usually use Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers but I'm not sure whether that's available in Canada.
Click to expand...

Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is available in Canada. Having a kibble addicted cat, I really don't know what other foods to suggest for HC off hand. There are other brands with gravy available and those too may be appropriate but frankly I've never checked them. I'd check the Special Kitty brand at Walmart for a gravy food as it may be a cost effective option. @Kris & Teasel - can you offer any HC food suggestions other than FF Gravy Lovers?

Those photos of Cali and Bender are absolutely heart warming! You can tell their bond was very strong and I have no doubt that Cali is missing her pal. Whether that contributed to her diagnosis or not, no one can say for sure, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
 
Re potential causes of the diabetes, it could be a genetic predisposition but the most likely culprit is the dry, high carb diet that so many of us were conned into believing was better for our cats:
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes
http://catinfo.org/?link=felinediabetes

From the above webpage:

In addition to the fact that all dry foods are water-depleted,
they are extremely calorically dense and
adipose tissue (fat) causes insulin resistance => diabetes. ​


Mogs
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Just seeing this now. Walmart is probably the cheapest for Fancy Feast - they had deals for 68 cents a can (stay away from the fish if you can). The lowest dry (and it's more medium carb than low carb) is Nature's Variety chicken instinct. Wellness Core is also a possibility. The one in the white bag with gold lettering. Not cheap. I'm sorry I can't be more clearer, not awake yet and me meds haven't kicked in.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Hi Rosa, I see Red & Rover gave you some first hand experience with the Bravo meter and my main concern would be the larger blood drop required. The Bravo meter got a good review from some specialists at St.Mikes hospital in Toronto so it seems it's deemed a good meter for humans. Since no one "tests" human meters on cats for accuracy, we really can only go by word of mouth and reports from human users/medical personnel. The reference numbers provided here do provide a little cushion anyway and all meters have to comply with Health Canada standards so I think the Bravo meter is certainly a viable option for you. The caveat to the meter is that the strips can only be ordered online so you will need to be sure to keep a supply on hand. If you can make up an order of I think $150.00 then delivery is free and the meter is free with purchase of a vial of strips. Since you already have the Aviva, you could keep it for a backup and in case you ever run short of strips for the Bravo meter.



Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers is available in Canada. Having a kibble addicted cat, I really don't know what other foods to suggest for HC off hand. There are other brands with gravy available and those too may be appropriate but frankly I've never checked them. I'd check the Special Kitty brand at Walmart for a gravy food as it may be a cost effective option. @Kris & Teasel - can you offer any HC food suggestions other than FF Gravy Lovers?

Those photos of Cali and Bender are absolutely heart warming! You can tell their bond was very strong and I have no doubt that Cali is missing her pal. Whether that contributed to her diagnosis or not, no one can say for sure, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
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I have a stash of Friskies gravy/sauce types in my cupboard to use in case of low numbers. They'd be similar to Fancy Feast gravy types. I know some people prefer to feed high end commercial canned food from specialty stores but that's not what I use.
 
Hi Rosi,

Just checking in to ask how you and Cali are getting on. How are her BG levels? Is she still going nuts for food and licking things?

:bighug:


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Hi Rosi,

Just checking in to ask how you and Cali are getting on. How are her BG levels? Is she still going nuts for food and licking things?

:bighug:


Mogs
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Hi @Critter Mom Cali hasnt done her licking today but is still biting me to get me up for some food. I have started her SS if you have a sec maybe you could have a look and give me any input you may have. Her vet called me back regarding my concerns with her BG levels at the start of the conversation he wanted to upper dose, by the end of it he was telling me I should lower her p.m. dose to 0.25. But only if her PMPS BG was 12 or lower. This really confuses me because at the beginning of her diagnosis he wanted her to be on three units. He also wants me to feed her four small meals a day to stop those 3 PM and 3 AM snack attacks and biting/licking episodes. He's still not concerned about ketones doesn't think I need to test for them which also concerns me,based on everything I've heard here and read online.
He wants me to call him back Monday and let him know how the weekend went. I am still giving her the full p.m. dose, 1u, because her BG levels have been above 12.

Rosi and Cali Cat
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Hi @Critter Mom Cali hasnt done her licking today but is still biting me to get me up for some food. I have started her SS if you have a sec maybe you could have a look and give me any input you may have. Her vet called me back regarding my concerns with her BG levels at the start of the conversation he wanted to upper dose, by the end of it he was telling me I should lower her p.m. dose to 0.25. But only if her PMPS BG was 12 or lower. This really confuses me because at the beginning of her diagnosis he wanted her to be on three units. He also wants me to feed her four small meals a day to stop those 3 PM and 3 AM snack attacks and biting/licking episodes. He's still not concerned about ketones doesn't think I need to test for them which also concerns me,based on everything I've heard here and read online.
He wants me to call him back Monday and let him know how the weekend went. I am still giving her the full p.m. dose, 1u, because her BG levels have been above 12.

Rosi and Cali Cat
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I think you could try holding the 1.0 u dose for a few more cycles to see if she surprises you with a green again.
 
Red & Rover (GA) & "Cat" said:
Just seeing this now. Walmart is probably the cheapest for Fancy Feast - they had deals for 68 cents a can
Click to expand...

Just saw today - if you don't mind the wait, Amazon is $11.99 for 24 cans right now, or 49 cents per can.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001STPJJO/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
I just ordered several boxes :D

It's gone down recently. It was $12.61 when I bought that box in August, which was still only 52 cents per can.

Actually, looks like prices fluctuate some. You can probably do pretty well if you watch it and then stock up when it dips. Looks like it was just over $10 (42 cents/can) around Christmas time.
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Fancy-Feast-Classic-Poultry-Variety/product/B001STPJJO
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Hi @Critter Mom Cali hasnt done her licking today but is still biting me to get me up for some food.
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It would help you to get a timed feeder for Cali so that it would dispense more food for her. If she needs to regain weight it's OK to feed her extra, as your vet has suggested. As her regulation starts to improve her appetite should go back to normal. I'm glad to hear she wasn't quite so frantic looking for food today. :)

Her vet called me back regarding my concerns with her BG levels at the start of the conversation he wanted to upper dose, by the end of it he was telling me I should lower her p.m. dose to 0.25. But only if her PMPS BG was 12 or lower. This really confuses me because at the beginning of her diagnosis he wanted her to be on three units.
Click to expand...
You may get better, more even, and safer levels by giving a smaller dose AM and PM - either 0.75IU AM & PM or perhaps 0.5IU AM & PM. If you try the lower dose first and Cali's numbers trend upwards over a few cycles you could always tweak it upwards again.

He also wants me to feed her four small meals a day to stop those 3 PM and 3 AM snack attacks and biting/licking episodes.
Click to expand...
Because the effect of Caninsulin is much more powerful early in the cycle it's recommended to give a larger feed before administering the insulin dose so that there's enough food 'on board' ready for the insulin to work on. You could then give Cali another - possibly smaller - feed later in the cycle. As you track her progress, her appetite, and her weight you'll be able to fine tune her feeding schedule and adjust the size of the second meal in each cycle to meet Cali's needs.

He's still not concerned about ketones doesn't think I need to test for them which also concerns me,based on everything I've heard here and read online.
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Cali is your cat, Rosi. There is nothing to stop you checking for ketones (and it's a good precaution to take - especially when she's not yet fully-regulated). :)

Sending some scritches for your precious girl. (((Cali)))


Mogs
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Shenandoah said:
Just saw today - if you don't mind the wait, Amazon is $11.99 for 24 cans right now, or 49 cents per can.
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B001STPJJO/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20
I just ordered several boxes :D

It's gone down recently. It was $12.61 when I bought that box in August, which was still only 52 cents per can.

Actually, looks like prices fluctuate some. You can probably do pretty well if you watch it and then stock up when it dips. Looks like it was just over $10 (42 cents/can) around Christmas time.
http://camelcamelcamel.com/Fancy-Feast-Classic-Poultry-Variety/product/B001STPJJO
Click to expand...

I will check this out thanks. I am guessing these are American prices so I will check out the Canadian sites ;)
 
Critter Mom said:
It would help you to get a timed feeder for Cali so that it would dispense more food for her. If she needs to regain weight it's OK to feed her extra, as your vet has suggested. As her regulation starts to improve her appetite should go back to normal. I'm glad to hear she wasn't quite so frantic looking for food today. :)

You may get better, more even, and safer levels by giving a smaller dose AM and PM - either 0.75IU AM & PM or perhaps 0.5IU AM & PM. If you try the lower dose first and Cali's numbers trend upwards over a few cycles you could always tweak it upwards again.

Because the effect of Caninsulin is much more powerful early in the cycle it's recommended to give a larger feed before administering the insulin dose so that there's enough food 'on board' ready for the insulin to work on. You could then give Cali another - possibly smaller - feed later in the cycle. As you track her progress, her appetite, and her weight you'll be able to fine tune her feeding schedule and adjust the size of the second meal in each cycle to meet Cali's needs.


Cali is your cat, Rosi. There is nothing to stop you checking for ketones (and it's a good precaution to take - especially when she's not yet fully-regulated). :)


Sending some scritches for your precious girl. (((Cali)))


Mogs
.
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An automated feeder is a great idea. I've never seen one that distributes wet food tho, do you know of one? Or do you mean for dry food for those days I'm not around? Speaking of Dry food do you know of one that has close to zero carbs here in Canada? I found a link on someones thread here for Young again pet food which has a Zero carb dry food but is quite expensive and in the US.

Lowering her dose seems pretty difficult to do with a regular syringe especially when there can sometimes be an air bubble at the top that just wont pop no matter how many times I refill the needle. When the vet discussed lowering her dose he mentioned special ordering pre-filled syringes. I imagine this are expensive but would be much easier and safer. Have you used these pens before for small doses?

Cali didn't wake me in the middle of the night and her AMPS was 24! Her last bit of food was around 8pm and when I tested her before that snack (apporx. 6pm) she was at 16.9. Is it possible she was in Hyper and slept all night because of it which resulted in that High number this morning?

I believe in prevention too so I don't see the harm in checking for Ketones; rather then waiting for the worst to happen which will end up costing more and could be potentially worse for Cali's health and recovery. I think he is a tad annoyed with me and my, "online people are saying this and I read this online." I am trying to word it differently and taking the word "online" out of it. I know Dr's hate hearing about online research but this is my cat and I take her health and happiness into my hands so I need to ensure I am doing right by her, which means to gather all the facts and info I can. If I feel he is saying something that I don't agree with or contradicts something I've read or heard from experienced Sugar Moms then his job is to listen to all the info I'm bringing and see if it applies or not. Life isn't black and white, there can be a lot of grey area.

Thanks Mogs, and thanks from Cali for those under the chin scratches <3
 
Do you U40 Caninsulin syringes have half unit marks on them? That can be very helpful when you need to lower the dose. Otherwise you can try eyeballing half way.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
Do you U40 Caninsulin syringes have half unit marks on them? That can be very helpful when you need to lower the dose. Otherwise you can try eyeballing half way.
Click to expand...

No I am using regular 1ml/cc insulin syringes that I am filling on my own from a 10ml vial of Caninsulin. Eye balling anything under 1ml or 1u would be extremely hard, no half lines
lol.. Especially with my hand (arthritis and no wrist movement w/nerve damage). I have poked myself several times when I get my weird twitches. So far I haven't launched anything across the room like her BG monitor or a full syringe lol.
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
No I am using regular 1ml/cc insulin syringes that I am filling on my own from a 10ml vial of Caninsulin. Eye balling anything under 1ml or 1u would be extremely hard, no half lines
lol.. Especially with my hand (arthritis and no wrist movement w/nerve damage). I have poked myself several times when I get my weird twitches. So far I haven't launched anything across the room like her BG monitor or a full syringe lol.
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There is a way to dose smaller fractions of a U40 insulin like caninsulin using U100 syringes and a conversion chart.
From another post by Critter Mom:
"For general information you need to use a conversion chart when using U100 syringes (0.3ml size with half-unit markings) to dose a U40 insulin. I echo the caveat that you need to be very sure of what's required before attempting this technique."

This is what I do..
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Cali didn't wake me in the middle of the night and her AMPS was 24! Her last bit of food was around 8pm and when I tested her before that snack (apporx. 6pm) she was at 16.9. Is it possible she was in Hyper and slept all night because of it which resulted in that High number this morning?
Click to expand...
Without testing there's no way to know for sure but today's higher AMPS could potentially be a bounce off a low overnight. A lot of cats run lower at night.

How was her drinking/peeing overnight?

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
When the vet discussed lowering her dose he mentioned special ordering pre-filled syringes.
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I know for Lantus pre-filling is an issue because the lubricant in the syringes degrades the insulin. I've not come across mention of pre-filling Caninsulin cartridges but I would have similar concerns about degradation. Perhaps your vet may be able to tell you a bit more about this.

When I got down to smaller doses of Caninsulin I used the U100 syringes mentioned above along with the conversion chart. The barrels of the syringes are quite small in diameter so the plunger needs to move back further from the hub when drawing up a dose. That plus the half-unit markings makes it a fair bit easier to measure smaller doses.

(Very sorry to hear about the arthritis and the nerve damage, Rosi. :bighug:)

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I think he is a tad annoyed with me and my, "online people are saying this and I read this online." I am trying to word it differently and taking the word "online" out of it. I know Dr's hate hearing about online research but this is my cat and I take her health and happiness into my hands so I need to ensure I am doing right by her, which means to gather all the facts and info I can. If I feel he is saying something that I don't agree with or contradicts something I've read or heard from experienced Sugar Moms then his job is to listen to all the info I'm bringing and see if it applies or not. Life isn't black and white, there can be a lot of grey area.
Click to expand...

When I moved to our current practice I told our main vet that I was very keen to learn as much as possible about feline diabetes and that I wanted to take a very active role in Saoirse's care. I was a bit nervous about the internet research thing - didn't want to upset him - so I asked him if it would be OK to bring in research articles I'd found to discuss with him and he said that would be OK. We have built a very collaborative relationship since then. There are times when we agree to disagree: for example initially he raised a bit of an eyebrow when he saw the frequency with which I tested Saoirse's BG levels but over time he came to regard her spreadsheet data (BG, clinical signs, miscellaneous observations) as a very valuable tool for helping to improve Saoirse's care.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Without testing there's no way to know for sure but today's higher AMPS could potentially be a bounce off a low overnight. A lot of cats run lower at night.

How was her drinking/peeing overnight?


I know for Lantus pre-filling is an issue because the lubricant in the syringes degrades the insulin. I've not come across mention of pre-filling Caninsulin cartridges but I would have similar concerns about degradation. Perhaps your vet may be able to tell you a bit more about this.

When I got down to smaller doses of Caninsulin I used the U100 syringes mentioned above along with the conversion chart. The barrels of the syringes are quite small in diameter so the plunger needs to move back further from the hub when drawing up a dose. That plus the half-unit markings makes it a fair bit easier to measure smaller doses.

(Very sorry to hear about the arthritis and the nerve damage, Rosi. :bighug:)



When I moved to our current practice I told our main vet that I was very keen to learn as much as possible about feline diabetes and that I wanted to take a very active role in Saoirse's care. I was a bit nervous about the internet research thing - didn't want to upset him - so I asked him if it would be OK to bring in research articles I'd found to discuss with him and he said that would be OK. We have built a very collaborative relationship since then. There are times when we agree to disagree: for example initially he raised a bit of an eyebrow when he saw the frequency with which I tested Saoirse's BG levels but over time he came to regard her spreadsheet data (BG, clinical signs, miscellaneous observations) as a very valuable tool for helping to improve Saoirse's care.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...


Yea I really drop the ball on checking her BG's the last night and Cali does drop a bit lower at night from what I've noticed on her SS. Her drinking and peeing has been much less then before Dx, and from what I can tell it was ok last night too.

Sorry Mogs I think there was some miscommunication when I was talking about the syringes. I don't preload my needles and do not recommend anyone does for the same reasons you mentioned along with the chance of a child or other pet getting to it or being plunged/pushed in and wasted.
Her vet was describing special needles, he called them pens, that he would need to order because they have a pre-measured dose of insulin already inside. I don't believe there would be an issue of degrading because they are specifically made to carry insulin and be stored before usage. He said they are good for smaller doses which makes sense. They sound really easy to use and you don't have to worry about conversion or small variations in the amount of dose you're actually getting.

Sounds like you and Saoires have a great relationship with your vet who is working closely with you. I hope to build a better relationship with Cali's or I may consider switching which I don't really want to do at this time. I agree that the SS's are a great tool and the more info the better!

Rosi
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Her vet was describing special needles, he called them pens, that he would need to order because they have a pre-measured dose of insulin already inside. I don't believe there would be an issue of degrading because they are specifically made to carry insulin and be stored before usage.
Click to expand...
OIC!

On the off chance that it's a Caninsulin Vetpen the vet is referring to, I bought one and found it more trouble than it was worth, not least of all because you could only adjust the dose in half-unit increments. In terms of handling I found it physically very clunky and consequently way more awkward to use than conventional syringes. The only plus I could see for the Vetpen is that - provided it's properly primed - it may improve dosing accuracy.


Mogs
.
 
Critter Mom said:
Questions:

Is Cali still underweight?

Body condition score chart

Would she eat more if you gave it to her?


Mogs
.
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The weight thing is a hard one for me because Cali was overweight for a while so I had started feeding her diet dry food and playing with her more. I'm not sure if her weight loss was due to the "diet" or the diabetes. Everything, including the excessive drinking and peeing seemed to happen around the same time.

Cali could always eat. She seems to always want food now that I am controlling it and she's not grazing. I am having a hard time with this and am going to talk to the vet about a zero carb dry food to have down when I'm out.

Rosi
 
Critter Mom said:
OIC!

On the off chance that it's a Caninsulin Vetpen the vet is referring to, I bought one and found it more trouble than it was worth, not least of all because you could only adjust the dose in half-unit increments. In terms of handling I found it physically very clunky and consequently way more awkward to use than conventional syringes. The only plus I could see for the Vetpen is that - provided it's properly primed - it may improve dosing accuracy.


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure but he could've been referring to that Pen. Thanks for the feedback it is very helpful to know you've used this device before. The size will either be easier for me or much worse lol. I need to hold it to see if I will be able to physically use it every day. Was the size why you stopped using it?
Also can I ask how long Saoires was on Caninsulin before you switched to Lantus and why you switched?
It seems many people, most people are using Lantus and recommend it.

Rosi
 
Wet food is better for a cat's kidneys. You can leave the canned food out in a timed feeder if you wish, Rosi. There are various tips 'n' tricks for keeping the food cool and moist (e.g. ice cube in the compartment with the food; freezing meal-sized portions which will have time to thaw before the feeder compartment opens to let the cat have access).

The feeder members recommend here most frequently is the Petsafe 5 (you can get good special offers for them on Amazon from time to time - certainly cheaper than Petsafe direct):

http://store.petsafe.net/5-meal-timed-pet-feeder

I use Petsafe 5 and also Catmate C20 feeders to dispense timed feeds of wet food.

http://pet-mate.com/uk/ShopOnline.aspx?Department_ID=1&Action=Home&category_id=12

If kitty is eating well and finishes meals promptly I use the Petsafe (rotates the feed tray so important that cat finishes grub before next feed is due) but if appetite is a bit sluggish I use the Catmate C20 (lid flips up at timed setting and cat can graze at its leisure). One upside of the rotating feeder is that it can be set to rotate all food out of the way for the 2 hours prior to preshot test time.

(NB: Avoid Catmate C50 feeders like the plague; they are complete and utter pants!)


Mogs
.
 
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