Cricket recently diagnosed

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Talullah1065

Talullah1065

Member Since 2016
Hi, my name is Jessica. In June of this year I found a mama (about 11 months old) and her 3 (3 month old) kittens. Since then we have learned that the mama, Cricket, has diabetes. Her BG at the vet's office was 700. She is taking Vetsulin but we are looking to change to Lantus since it is leaving her system too quick. These message boards have really helped me keep my sanity.

We had hoped to rehome her and her kittens since we already had 5 cats with various health issues but the kittens are so bonded so we wanted to keep them together and now, with Cricket's diagnosis, it looks like she's ours for life. Luckily, she's really the sweetest cat in our home. I think the biggest stressor is finding an inexpensive and healthy diet for them all.
 
Welcome! You're obviously a devoted animal lover. :) Have you been testing her blood glucose at home? If you're a regular reader of the forum posts here you know what our basic protocol is. Are you interested in setting up a spreadsheet to post Cricket's BG numbers? We rely on seeing that to help out with dosing advice, etc.
 
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Hi Jessica!

Welcome to you, to Cricket, and to the rest of your impressive clowder; they are very lucky kitties to have you. :) I'm glad that you've been finding FDMB helpful. (I'd have been utterly lost without it!)

Talullah1065 said:
She is taking Vetsulin but we are looking to change to Lantus since it is leaving her system too quick.
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In addition to Lantus you might want to consider Levemir as a potential treatment option. Both are gentler, longer-acting insulins than Vetsulin but some kitties seem to feel brighter and happier on Levemir. It might be worth posting a thread on the L&L board asking members to share their experience of using the two L insulins to help you in making your decision.

Just in case you've not found them already, there are several very informative forum stickies at the top of the Lantus & Levemir board. Here's a link:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-glargine-levemir-detemir.9/

Also if you post a topic on Feline Health asking about affordable food choices available in your country I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions.

Is that Cricket in your avatar pic?


Mogs
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Yes, that's Cricket in the picture.

I've been keeping track of her levels by a hand written spreadsheet. I write down when she eats, gets her injection, her glucose numbers and the time. My mom lives with me so she helps out sometimes and we keep the notepad with the glucose meter. I tried clicking on the spreadsheet link at the forum home page but it said it wasn't found. So far, her numbers are still extremely elevated. I did a curve test yesterday and her lowest was 290, about 4 hours after injection. Then she was back up to 490 this morning.

Feline Diabetes in Need is giving me a vial of Lantus so that's what we are going to try. It's very expensive though. That's why we went with Vetsulin first but it seems like she would need several shots a day and I work. I guess you get what you pay for.
 
There are techies here who can help you with the spreadsheet if you like. Insulin is almost always given in two doses a day 12 hours apart. There are members here who can give you a lot of help using Vetsulin - the high of 490 and low of 290 aren't unusual for a kitty early on. How did you decide it wasn't lasting long enough?

Lantus is a very different insulin from Vetsulin. There are a lot of good reference materials here that you should check out too learn more. Please post any questions you have on the main health forum so more people see them. :)
 
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Jessica, welcome to you and your entire clowder.

You can get Lantus from Canada for much less than the U.S. Here is were most of us get it from. https://rxcanada4less.com/index.html. the box of 5 pens is the best pricing and will last you a very long time if stored properly. Insulin syringes are used for them so you don't need pen needles. You draw it up like you would a vial.

You will need a script and it takes time to receive it. Also temperatures will alter when the ship. Call them and find out the details, customer service is great.

The spreadsheet is done in Google sheets, not excel. You would need to login to Google drive. Some tablets do not support Google sheets but the phones usually do.

As mentioned just ask and someone can set it up for you.
 
There are members here who can give you a lot of help using Vetsulin - the high of 490 and low of 290 aren't unusual for a kitty early on. How did you decide it wasn't lasting long enough?

Lantus is a very different insulin from Vetsulin. There are a lot of good reference materials here that you should check out too learn more. Please posat any questions you have on the main health forum so more people see them. :)[/QUOTE]

I was told I should do curve test since her numbers were always so high before her shots. When doing the curve, her numbers we're lowest only 4 hours into it and then they started going up from there.
 

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Talullah1065 said:
When doing the curve, her numbers we're lowest only 4 hours into it and then they started going up from there.
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While some cats may get better duration from Vetsulin, they tend to be the exception, not the rule and what you describe is very typical of the response of most cats being treated with that particular insulin.

The L insulins when dosed effectively typically exert better blood glucose control over each 12-hour cycle, and levels tend to be much smoother (shallower curves).

Here's a link to my Saoirse's spreadsheet for 2014 in case you'd like to see a real-world example of how different insulins may work in the same cat. Saoirse was first treated with Caninsulin (aka Vetsulin) as was required at the time by law in the UK but I was able to get her switched onto Lantus and she went on to achieve remission:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W_6vprqOticH1qB5duGq911swDj32Qw2olXPsmQS3CM/edit#gid=10

I've linked to her BG values in US mg/dL units. It is clear to see the difference between how the two insulins affected her BG levels. Saoirse felt a lot better on the Lantus, too.


Mogs
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With Vetsulin you should feed 30 minutes BEFORE giving insulin. You want food on board before the insulin starts to work.
 
Woodsywife said:
With Vetsulin you should feed 30 minutes BEFORE giving insulin. You want food on board before the insulin starts to work.
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That's what I read but then the vet said she should get insulin first. she stopped wanting to eat when I changed it so I went back to feeding her before. I'm not quite sure what to do sometimes because the vet says contradictory information from the forums. I think I trust experienced diabetes cat owners more right now.
 
Here are the recommendations from the Vetsulin.com website:

http://www.vetsulin.com/vet/Cats_DosingFeeding.aspx

From the above site:

Timing of meals

For twice-daily Vetsulin® (porcine insulin zinc suspension) dosing of cats:

  • Keep caloric content of meals consistent.
  • Maintain consistent timing of feed schedule.
  • Feed one-half of the total daily food intake either concurrently with or right after Vetsulin administration (at 12-hour intervals).
  • Cats accustomed to ad libitum feeding may continue to graze throughout the day and night.
As you know, Vetsulin tends to kick in hard and fast at the beginning of the cycle so it's important that a kitty has enough food on board to keep it safe during the cycle.

Feeding concurrent with dose admin may result in steeper drops to nadir in the early part of the cycle. Steeper drops may trigger the release of stored sugars and counter-regulatory hormones which then start driving numbers back up quite early in the cycle (and may lead to higher preshots).

Another problem with feeding concurrent with dose or just after dose admin is the risk that the cat may not eat enough or perhaps vomit. If the cat doesn't eat enough it increases the risk of a cat going too low (especially cats who are running in a relatively good BG range at that stage of regulation).

Feeding a little while before the Vetsulin is administered allows time for the body to digest the food so that there is something for the insulin to 'go to work on' at time of dose onset (early in cycle for this particular insulin). Also feeding a little while before giving the dose allows you ensure that the cat has eaten enough to be able to safely administer the dose in the first place (and to reduce/skip dose should it prove necessary to do so for the cat's safety).

In addition to feeding a short while before the dose is due, giving a snack at about +1.5 hours after the Vetsulin dose is administered may help slow the BG drop and produce a smoother cycle overall.

I think even among vets advice can vary a great deal. The vet treating Saoirse at time of Dx warned me in no uncertain terms to make sure that Saoirse finished all of her food allowance for the cycle and then wait 15 minutes before giving any insulin.


Mogs
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Talullah1065 said:
That's what I read but then the vet said she should get insulin first. she stopped wanting to eat when I changed it so I went back to feeding her before. I'm not quite sure what to do sometimes because the vet says contradictory information from the forums. I think I trust experienced diabetes cat owners more right now.
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People and kitties here live this disease 24/7. Real time, real cats. Sadly some vets are not trained enough nor see enough FD in their practice. For right now you don't need to tell your vet until you see what is working for your kitty.
 
Talullah1065 said:
Thank you Shiloh & Rhonda. Now for a silly question...What do "AMPS, U, and PMPS" mean?
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There's no such thing as a silly question. I was wondering the same thing, however now that I know what it means I do feel a bit silly because it seems so obvious to lol... I was looking at the spreed sheets and am extremely overwhelmed with all the abbreviations myself. Plus I live in Canada so the units of measurement are very different. I started Cali on 1/u of Caninsulin last night.
 
@Cali Cat and Rosi the spreadsheet (SS) comes in an world format as well. If you check out @Kris & Teasel SS, you will see both. The SS automatically adds the US numbers when you plug in your readings. It's really a lot simpler than it looks and if you would like one of us can set it up for you. Just ask.
 
Sharon14 said:
@Cali Cat and Rosi the spreadsheet (SS) comes in an world format as well. If you check out @Kris & Teasel SS, you will see both. The SS automatically adds the US numbers when you plug in your readings. It's really a lot simpler than it looks and if you would like one of us can set it up for you. Just ask.
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After a few mins of staring at the SS I realized that either something is wrong with poor kitties BG levels or it is showing both numbers. My Cali cat is staying within the normal 4-8 range on her first real day of insulin.
Thank you so much for the offer regarding the SS. I would just feel bad, knowing how others like to view them, that I would stick to pen and paper forgetting to add them to a SS. I really hate using the computer lol..
 
Cali Cat and Rosi said:
My Cali cat is staying within the normal 4-8 range on her first real day of insulin.
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That's unusual. If your cat is getting as low as 4.0 mmol/L this quick I'm worried about the dose of Caninsulin being too high.

(NB: if the 4 -8 range is in mmol/L measured on a pet meter then your cat is running in the normal range for a non-diabetic cat.)

Could you post the insulin type, dose and BG readings relative to time of the insulin dose, please?

e.g.

Meter type = ?????????? (human or pet meter)


AM - preshot BG test = ???
Fed ????
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
(etc.)

PM - preshot BG test = ???
Fed ????
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
(etc.)

Important safety info here:

How to treat hypos

Hypo toolkit


Mogs
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Cali Cat and Rosi said:
After a few mins of staring at the SS I realized that either something is wrong with poor kitties BG levels or it is showing both numbers. My Cali cat is staying within the normal 4-8 range on her first real day of insulin.
Thank you so much for the offer regarding the SS. I would just feel bad, knowing how others like to view them, that I would stick to pen and paper forgetting to add them to a SS. I really hate using the computer lol..
Click to expand...
Please let us know how your kitty is doing. I suggest you start your own thread here with the info that Critter Mom has requested.
 
Critter Mom said:
That's unusual. If your cat is getting as low as 4.0 mmol/L this quick I'm worried about the dose of Caninsulin being too high.

(NB: if the 4 -8 range is in mmol/L measured on a pet meter then your cat is running in the normal range for a non-diabetic cat.)

Could you post the insulin type, dose and BG readings relative to time of the insulin dose, please?

e.g.

Meter type = ?????????? (human or pet meter)


AM - preshot BG test = ???
Fed ????
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
(etc.)

PM - preshot BG test = ???
Fed ????
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
BG = ??? at +??? hrs after dose.
(etc.)

Important safety info here:

How to treat hypos

Hypo toolkit


Mogs
.
Click to expand...

So here is what I have for Cali. She is no longer showing those low numbers and I feel it's my fault. She is on 1U of Caninsulin every 12 hrs. and her food is Purina's Diabetic Maintenance which the vet recommended and wants her to only eat every 12 hrs before giving insulin, if needed. She was previously a dry food grazer, she loves the new food but am having a hard time with the feeding schedule being so restrictive. Previous to Dx she had been waking me up every morning with little "love" bites on any exposed skin at 6-7am, my hint to get up and feed her some pate which she only got in the morning, grazing rest of the day. Starting 2 days ago, it seems to coincide with her first insulin dose, she has been biting me halfway through the day, 3pm and 3am appears to be starving and licking things like the sides of the dishwasher, plastic tubs etc. Anyone have any ideas what this is about?

Human Monitor as recommended by vet, after much research I went with the Consumer Report's #1) Accu-chek Aviva, I hope this is a good one. Has been easy to use for me and my limited wrist/shoulder motion.

Monday July 2, 2017 (First night on Caninsulin and doing BG readings)

PM - preshot BG test = 16.3 @ 6:30pm
Fed: 1/2 can of food which took her almost 1.5 hrs to complete (6:30-8pm)
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin @ 7:30pm
BG = 12.6 at +1.5 hrs after dose.

Unfortunately, due to the stress of everything I was exhausted and slept all that night and did not get up to retest her.

Tuesday July 3rd 2017
AM - preshot BG test = 5.6 @ 6:35am
Fed: 1/2 can
I tested BG again after eating some food, BG = 6 @ 7am.
I was extremely nervous and forgot what the vet had told me. Only dose if BG is higher than 10. I stupidly dosed her and numbers have been up since that morning.
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin
I called the vet panicking and was told to give her a huge meal and test BG every hr.

BG = 8.2 at +1 hrs (8am) after accident dose.
BG = 6.9 at 9:50am.
BG = 6.8 at 11:45am. She slept

PM checking BG
BG= 11 @ 2:10pm I came home from shopping and she seemed well but was ravenous and ate rest of her left over AM meal

PM- pre-shot BG= 16.4 @ 7:30pm
Fed: 1/2 can
Did another BG before dose = 17.5 @ 7:50
Dose: 1.0/u Caninsulin
BG= 18 @ 9:05pm.
BG= 16.8 @ 9:30pm
BG= 11.6 @ 11:45pm. Meowing while sleeping, haven't noticed this before.

July 4th, 2017
3 am woke up to cali biting my arm so I checked her BG= 8.0, I gave her a couple spoons of her food because she wouldn't stop biting me......
BG= 8.3@ 3:20am

AMPS= 13.6 @ 7am
Fed= 1/2 can, BG= 14.8 @ 7:20am
Dose= 1.0/U 7:30am
BG= 13.2 @ 10am
BG= 12.2 @ 11:30am

PM
At 3pm she started licking thinks and biting me.
BG=12.7 @ 3:15pm
snack
BG=15.8 @4:50pm

PMPS BG= 19.6 @ 6pm
Fed= 1/2 can
Dose- 1.0/u
BG= 20.9 @ 6:40 pm
BG= 12.0 @ 8pm


July 5th (today), 2017
And again my day today started at 3 am with the biting and licking plastic, and cupboard doors.
BG = 14.0 @ 3am (I did not give her any snacks this time but played with her than went back to bed)

5:50am awoken with bites for the 2nd time
AMPS BG= 17.8 @ 5:55am
Fed 1/2 can
BG= 17.2 @ 6:20
Dose: 1.0/u Caninsulin @ 6:25am
BG= 16.5 @ 9am

That's what I have for now lol.
I really feel like I messed her up since my gloating and accidentally dosing her when she was in normal range, she has been up past 10 compared to the first day. Any input or advice will be greatly appreciated. Especially with this mid day and morning hunger and behavior issue of biting and licking.

I think I may be ready to start tackling that spread sheet if anyone can help me with Canadian format. I am not good at SS, will there be values in the cells like math? or will it be blank and I input everything in the cells by hand? as for the +2 +3 +4 after dose do you add up the hours after dose and enter under that + column? I am used to writing the time down but notice you all do it differently.

Thanks,
Cali, whose sleeping in her basket, and Rosi.
 

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Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Sorry it took me almost an hour to write all that info out lol..
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Now you see why we're such fans of the spreadsheets, Rosi! ;)

Thank you so much for the info. I'm having a look at it now. While I'm reviewing it could you let me know in the meantime:-

- is it correct Cali has only started going really crazy with hunger after starting on Caninsulin?

- what was her BG spot check when the vet diagnosed diabetes?

- did the vet run a fructosamine test as part of the diagnostics?

- did the vet test Cali's urine for glucose?

- did Cali have any illness/infection prior to diagnosis (e.g. UTI/other)?

- prior to diagnosis was Cali showing any of the following signs: drinking & peeing a lot; losing weight while eating normally; unusual hunger; poor coat condition; lethargy/low mood?


Mogs
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Cali Cat and Rosi said:
her food is Purina's Diabetic Maintenance which the vet recommended and wants her to only eat every 12 hrs before giving insulin, if needed. She was previously a dry food grazer, she loves the new food but am having a hard time with the feeding schedule being so restrictive.
Click to expand...
My guy eat Purina DM mixed with a little Friskies of Fancy Feast low carb pates for variety. My vet told me to feed only twice a day at first but that's not what teasel was accustomed to so I don't follow that. He gets his larger meals at AM and PM with a smaller lunch and even smaller bed time snack.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Human Monitor as recommended by vet, after much research I went with the Consumer Report's #1) Accu-chek Aviva,
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Hurray that your vet seems to be on the ball with treating FD! There are other people here using your meter type.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
it seems to coincide with her first insulin dose, she has been biting me halfway through the day, 3pm and 3am appears to be starving and licking things like the sides of the dishwasher, plastic tubs etc. Anyone have any ideas what this is about?
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She's hungry and probably needs several small meals a day. Unregulated diabetic cats are always hungry.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
Monday July 2, 2017
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I assume you mean Monday, January 2/17?

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I think I may be ready to start tackling that spread sheet if anyone can help me with Canadian format. I
Click to expand...
There are people here like @Marje and Gracie who are willing to set up your SS for you. This SS allows data entry in both US and World units. We use World units here in Canada. There are stickies explaining how the SS works:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

This will get you started. I have to go now and can't review your data until later. :)
 
Also, did you cut out the dry food and switch to Purina DM canned food after diagnosis and before giving the first insulin dose?

.
 
Critter Mom said:
Now you see why we're such fans of the spreadsheets, Rosi! ;)

Thank you so much for the info. I'm having a look at it now. While I'm reviewing it could you let me know in the meantime:-

- is it correct Cali has only started going really crazy with hunger after starting on Caninsulin?

- what was her BG spot check when the vet diagnosed diabetes?

- did the vet run a fructosamine test as part of the diagnostics?

- did the vet test Cali's urine for glucose?

- did Cali have any illness/infection prior to diagnosis (e.g. UTI/other)?

- prior to diagnosis was Cali showing any of the following signs: drinking & peeing a lot; losing weight while eating normally; unusual hunger; poor coat condition; lethargy/low mood?


Mogs
Critter Mom said:
Now you see why we're such fans of the spreadsheets, Rosi! ;)

Thank you so much for the info. I'm having a look at it now. While I'm reviewing it could you let me know in the meantime:-

- is it correct Cali has only started going really crazy with hunger after starting on Caninsulin?

- what was her BG spot check when the vet diagnosed diabetes?

- did the vet run a fructosamine test as part of the diagnostics?

- did the vet test Cali's urine for glucose?

- did Cali have any illness/infection prior to diagnosis (e.g. UTI/other)?

- prior to diagnosis was Cali showing any of the following signs: drinking & peeing a lot; losing weight while eating normally; unusual hunger; poor coat condition; lethargy/low mood?


Mogs
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Click to expand...

Yes I see why SS are important for everyone on the forums! lol


- is it correct Cali has only started going really crazy with hunger after starting on Caninsulin?

A: Cali would be crzy for food in the AM and in the past year had been waking with the biting. We lost our beloved dog Bender who was in her life since a kitten, 1.5yrs ago. I attributed the early morning wake ups to the loss as she started getting more attention once Bender wasn't taking up most of my spare time. I had also been feeding her wet food in the AM and leaving her regular dry (awful crap) out all day. So she was a grazer. No hunger issues or biting throughout the day. So I guess my answer would be a yes because of the mid day and 3 am behaviours which did begin after Caninsulin.

- what was her BG spot check when the vet diagnosed diabetes?
A: Yes but I do not have her labs. I will call and ask for them. Is that what others have posted on their SS? At her second visit they checked her BG in front of me with a human monitor and it read 22.2 that was on the Monday July 2nd before I started the insulin. I was hoping the diet alone would have worked at first so I held off the previous week.

- did the vet run a fructosamine test as part of the diagnostics?
A: I do not know that one.

- did the vet test Cali's urine for glucose?
A: again I don't know

- did Cali have any illness/infection prior to diagnosis (e.g. UTI/other)?
A: No

- prior to diagnosis was Cali showing any of the following signs: drinking & peeing a lot; losing weight while eating normally; unusual hunger; poor coat condition; lethargy/low mood?

A: Yes this is what brought me to the vet in the first place. I was going through massive amounts of cat litter and filling her bowl daily. It was obvious to me something was wrong. I took me close to 6 wks to get her to a vet as I dont have a car or much support. My mom helped me when she could. As for the weight I noticed she wasn't cleaning her bum but because we had lost Bender who used to groom her I assumed it was because he cleaned her bum without me noticing. Than I started thinking maybe she was too pudgy from introducing am wet food. So I decided to buy diet dry food to graze on and see if losing some weight would help her be able to reach to clean. Well she lost weight and I began witnessing her cleaning herself and the clingers were gone. But then the drinking and peeing started. Is it possible she got the diabetes from the diet food? or losing our BFF Bender? everything seemed to happen at the same time over a few months so I don't know what happened.

I also asked the vet after Dx about ketones and testing urine and he told me I didn't have to do that. Anyone know why and if its a bad idea to not check for them? Because from what I've read it's important to test urine for Ketones.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
My guy eat Purina DM mixed with a little Friskies of Fancy Feast low carb pates for variety. My vet told me to feed only twice a day at first but that's not what teasel was accustomed to so I don't follow that. He gets his larger meals at AM and PM with a smaller lunch and even smaller bed time snack.


Hurray that your vet seems to be on the ball with treating FD! There are other people here using your meter type.


She's hungry and probably needs several small meals a day. Unregulated diabetic cats are always hungry.


I assume you mean Monday, January 2/17?


There are people here like @Marje and Gracie who are willing to set up your SS for you. This SS allows data entry in both US and World units. We use World units here in Canada. There are stickies explaining how the SS works:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

This will get you started. I have to go now and can't review your data until later. :)
Click to expand...


I am heading out soon too so I will try and tackle more later. And yes I did mean January. Thanks for everything!
 
Critter Mom said:
Also, did you cut out the dry food and switch to Purina DM canned food after diagnosis and before giving the first insulin dose?

.
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I did stop dry food almost immediately. I was adding like 20 pcs of dry to the morning leftovers when she was acting hungry a few hours later. I believe I did this less than 4 x's total the week before and first full day of insulin. This was before I read how bad that stuff was, I am getting rid of all the full bags of food and treats I bought her for xmas today. I don't really want to give it away knowing how bad it is..
 
I've had a look at the data and your excellent record of Cali's clinical signs & feeding. (You're doing a brilliant job of monitoring her, Rosi! :) )

I strongly recommend that you review Cali's dose for safety. I also strongly recommend that you keep monitoring her BG levels very closely.

I'm concerned about the impact that removing the dry food may have had on Cali's insulin requirements. If she had had any dry food in the days before the vet measured her BG at 22.2 (human meter) that may have been putting her in higher numbers at that time. Typically, moving from dry, high carb food to a diet of wet, low-carb food has quite an effect and often lowers BG levels significantly. (Purina DM canned has an acceptable carb load for a feline diabetic - <10% kcal from carbs.) Some cats even go into remission with diet change alone (as you were trying to see with Cali). If Cali's numbers were better without dry food and higher after starting Caninsulin and reducing the dry food it raises questions about the size of the insulin dose.

From your data (human meter):

Monday 2 Jan 2017
PM - preshot BG test = 16.3 @ 6:30pm
Fed: 1/2 can of food which took her almost 1.5 hrs to complete (6:30-8pm)
Dose: 1.0 units of Caninsulin @ 7:30pm
BG = 12.6 at +1.5 hrs after dose. <----------------- Early dose onset and fast lowering of BG (and could have gone substantially lower during the period when Caninsulin is working at maximum effect - anywhere between +3 and +7 hours after the dose was given).

Tuesday [January] July 3rd 2017
AM - preshot BG test = 5.6 @ 6:35am <----- This is a highly unusual result - WAY TOO LOW for next preshot BG - abnormal result for Caninsulin (BG curve should be cup-shaped, not a downward slope from one preshot to the next preshot.)

What is raising a red flag with me is that Cali's numbers first went very low on the 1.0IU dose of Caninsulin - right the way through to the next preshot test (see above) - but since then they have gone higher PLUS she now seems to be even hungrier than before starting on Caninsulin. If you've reduced/removed the dry food from Cali's diet the 1.0 IU dose of Caninsulin prescribed by your vet may now be too high for Cali's needs. There is a phenomenon called rebound hyperglycaemia and I am wondering whether Cali might be experiencing this? Here is an article on the subject:

Rebound hyperglycaemia

I think you need to urgently review the dose with your vet in case it is too high. I strongly recommend that you call your vet today about Rosi's BGs and her behaviour changes since starting on Caninsulin. In particular tell your vet about the worsened, ravenous hunger, and how she's biting and licking everything in sight. Ravenous hunger can be a symptom of both hyperglycaemia AND threat of hypoglycaemia. Make sure to also tell the vet about the odd behaviour you've noticed (particularly the mewling in her sleep and the mid-cycle lethargy you observed). Tip: when recording observations make a note of how many hours have elapsed since the insulin dose was given (can be an important guide to how the dose is affecting Cali).

If Cali is experiencing rebound hyperglycaemia (referred to on FDMB as 'bouncing') even if the dose of Caninsulin were to be reduced dose her BG numbers may stay high for several days before the effects of counter-regulatory hormones subside. Careful monitoring is needed because, as a bounce clears, there can sometimes be a marked and fairly sudden return to better BG levels so it's vital to stay on top of the testing so that you are ready to intervene should numbers go low and also to reduce the dose of insulin as dictated by Cali.

It may be that Cali only requires a very small dose of insulin to keep her well-regulated. If she has been running in better numbers since the food change but not consistently so it could make treatment with Caninsulin very tricky because of its properties of dropping BG levels quite hard and fast, even on very tiny doses. Switching to a gentler insulin like Lantus or Levemir might be a better option for her: L insulins typically don't tend to produce large, steep BG drops in the way that Caninsulin does, and BG levels tend to be a bit more even throughout the day, thus making it easier and safer to treat a cat requiring only a small dose with these gentler insulins.

If you are still feeding Cali any dry food I strongly recommend you do not remove this from her diet until you speak with your vet about dose adjustment and you're also able to monitor her continuously over a period of a couple of days so that you'd be able to intervene if she were to start running low during the transition.

I'm tagging Linda (@MrWorfMen's Mom) to ask her to also give you her view on your data and observations.

(Sorry if this is a bit rambling and repetitive; my concentration's very poor today. :oops: )


Mogs

ETA - I've attached a journal article about managing diabetic cats with long-acting insulins for you to learn more about how Lantus and Levemir work. I found it helped me in my discussions with our vet when Saoirse was switching from Caninsulin to Lantus.

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Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I also asked the vet after Dx about ketones and testing urine and he told me I didn't have to do that. Anyone know why and if its a bad idea to not check for them? Because from what I've read it's important to test urine for Ketones.
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Yep, ketone monitoring is important. Here are some helpful forum stickies for you:

Are you testing kitty for ketones? If not, do it!

Tips for catching and testing urine

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I am getting rid of all the full bags of food and treats I bought her for xmas today. I don't really want to give it away knowing how bad it is..
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:bighug::bighug::bighug:

All we want to do is look after our little ones and give them things that are good for them. I felt betrayed by the vet I consulted when I adopted my first two fur babies who told me that dry was much better for them than wet food - and absolutely furious with myself for just taking his word for it and not doing my own research. :(


Mogs
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Howdy neighbour (I'm in Etobicoke!) and welcome to FDMB. Cali is a gorgeous little girl!

I had a peak at the info you provided and I agree 100% with Mogs. I would not remove the dry food just yet and I would also try feeding Cali some snacks in between her main meals to help keep her a little more satisfied throughout the day/night. A consult with your vet is in order. Everything points to the dose being too high and with Caninsulin, I would not give her 1u again as it seems to be causing extremely steep drops very early in the cycle (4th she again went from 20.9 to 12.0 in less than 1.5 hours!). In the meantime, I think as long as ketones are not an issue, I'd back her up to 0.5u and monitor her closely to see if that slows her drops and levels her out a bit. Consideration of a longer acting insulin might be a better option for Cali given how quickly and how much she dropped immediately after her shot on a few occasions.

Your description of the biting and licking plastic reminds me of my girl when her numbers have dropped to low levels. Mine is relentless in her attempt to get my attention and get some food but thankfully no biting. She too licks plastic but she also starts loudly vocalizing and jumping on and launching off my person till I get up. As irritating as it can be to be bitten or pounced on continually or awakened from a sound sleep in such fashion, it does alert you to the need for action.

Cali Cat and Rosi said:
I think I may be ready to start tackling that spread sheet if anyone can help me with Canadian format. I am not good at SS, will there be values in the cells like math? or will it be blank and I input everything in the cells by hand? as for the +2 +3 +4 after dose do you add up the hours after dose and enter under that + column? I am used to writing the time down but notice you all do it differently.
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There is no math/formatting involved. It's all done automatically so that our International BG readings are appropriately colour coded and converted to US readings on a separate SS tab so that if one of the US members is helping you, they can easily understand the readings/timelines without having to do any math. You simply add each reading you take, in the "+" column corresponding to how many hours after the insulin was given. We do this because this is an international group all in different time zones. The actual time of shots and tests only matter to you for shot times, planning test times etc.
If you need help, just holler and we'll get you set up.

It would be a really good idea to start a new thread for you and Cali with a link to this thread. Just copy the URL for this page and then paste it into a new post. I fear we could lose track of you because you are on Tallulah's thread and we don't want to do that. ;):D
 
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