? 12/25: MITTENS - Novolin N (TID) - Ketones Small - MDPS 223

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I thought I gave it to her at 9:45 my time, I thought next one was 5:45. I thought I had more time. I came to the laundromat cause we haven't had any time to, the washer is just about done though and I'll throw the clothes in the dryer and run home so I'm there on time.
 
Dan&Heather said:
I thought I gave it to her at 9:45 my time, I thought next one was 5:45. I thought I had more time. I came to the laundromat cause we haven't had any time to, the washer is just about done though and I'll throw the clothes in the dryer and run home so I'm there on time.
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I checked back in the thread. AM dose was given at 9:45 AM. Next dose is due at 5:45 PM.
 
OK-- don't forget that she also needs food to go with the insulin!

For some reason, the time has really flown today-- I thought we were earlier in the cycle, too.
 
Ok, I thought I got it wrong, I've been writing everything I do down here on my pc because the spreadsheet confuses me still. When I give her insulin I immediately write down all the time I'm going to have to test at and when the next shot should be so that I don't have to keep figuring it out with my tired brain, I just look at my list and know what time I'm waiting for. I thought maybe I wrote it down wrong. So next insulin is in 45 minutes, so I will test her right now and feed her too so she is ready.
 
question: i tried to read thru so I may have missed this info....

the recipe for ketones is not enough water + not enough insulin + infection ( present or brewing)

Has Mittens been checked for infection? I saw something about avoiding the er vet....

so I would say if antibiotics aren't on board yet..... save some of that pee sample ( when you get it - put it in the fridge)
so your regular vet can check it.

and if antibiotics are given, that will also hurt the appetite.
So if antibiotics are given, you might want to request ondansetron (for nausea) and cyprohetadine (for appy stimulation)
ondansetron is a human drug so you just want a prescription....
 
Next Potassium supplement dose due at: 18:45 EST.

Suggest giving this as close to the dose time as possible with a small amount of food (more likely to get the whole dose in); hopefully to help with the poop side of things.

.
 
rhiannon and shadow (GA) said:
Has Mittens been checked for infection?
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I guess I'm not sure. She told me that the elevated number of white blood cells was probably because she's sick and her body is trying to fight it. She didn't suggest we check for anything else, like she didn't say there were more tests we should do. Maybe because she knew I had limited money to spend there? I guess since she didn't make it sound like a big deal I didn't think it was since she didn't say much specific about it.

Critter Mom said:
Suggest giving this as close to the dose time as possible with a small amount of food (more likely to get the whole dose in); hopefully to help with the poop side of things
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When you say dose time are you referring to as close to the scheduled time for potassium or did you mean close to the insulin dose?
 
Dan&Heather said:
When I give her insulin I immediately write down all the time I'm going to have to test at and when the next shot should be so that I don't have to keep figuring it out with my tired brain, I just look at my list and know what time I'm waiting for.
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Great solution!

(Sorry for my typo confusing things. :( :oops: )

As long as you've got something you can follow which works right for you that is all that matters.

There's no rush on you getting to grips with the spreadsheet just now. Right now the great benefit of the spreadsheet is to let any members coming to assist you to see what's happening with Mittens' BG levels, etc., and they'll be able to offer better help.

.
 
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Dan&Heather said:
When you say dose time are you referring to as close to the scheduled time for potassium or did you mean close to the insulin dose?
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As close as possible to the time when Mittens is due to be given the potassium supplement; i.e. 18:45 or as soon as she can manage after this time.

.
 
Ok, she got her .5 shot of insulin at 5 minutes ago, 5:45 my time. I will make sure she gets a little bit of food and her potassium on time too.
 
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OK, great!

Numbers are still higher than any of us would like, but this pre-shot is a bit lower than the morning's and this will be the second cycle at the higher dose, so let's hope the insulin can get to work at bringing the BGs down some.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Which Relion?
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Relion Micro is what we're using.

Kris & Teasel said:
any updates on Mittens? Feeding, BG, etc.
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She is scheduled to be tested in 20 minutes, so immediately after that I'm going to feed her the potassium with a litte bit of food. Besides that nothing new so far, she's just hanging out under the coffee table in the living room with us. She still hasn't used the liter box, I was hoping with those fluids we gave her she would so we can get a ketone test in. When I feed her I'm going to give her some more water too and hopefully it won't be too long.
 
Tested again at 7:15 pm my time, almost half an hour ago +1.5 -230 I fed her about 5mL of fancy feast with potassium mixed in and then 10mL of water from the syringe too. That went down quite a bit. Too much? I was going to test her again in an hour, would that be ok?
 
Well, we want her numbers to go down, so that's good, but that is a considerable drop. Is it possible to test in a half hour? We may need to slow down her descent with some higher-carb food.
 
@Dyana, if you are online now, could you take a quick peek at the situation? I need some more experienced eyes.

Mittens has been running in the mid-300's all day, pre-shot was 320, 0.5U of Novalin administered, +1.5 was 230 so it looks like an active cycle.

I've recommended another test in a half hour at +2 to see if the drop continues.

The last ketone test was yesterday around midday, with a reading of "small". We have been unable to catch her for another test since then. She has had fluids today, plus potassium.
 
@Dan&Heather , was 5 mL food and 10 mL water all Mittens consumed prior to her shot tonight?
If so, you'll want to get more food into her now... about 10 - 15 mL of food if at all possible.


Edited to add: You'll want to try to get a total of 20 mL food into her prior to her shot. When you're giving potassium make that 5 mL food mixed w/potassium plus 15 mL food.
 
I tested her again at 8:15 +2.5 -199 I'm worried about how quickly it's going down. I'm going to feed her again, should it be the regular stuff or the higher carb gravy stuff.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Dan and Heather, have you tried baby food, pure chicken, or turkey, beef or ham? It might have been suggested prior and I missed it. What kind of meter do you use?
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Hi Bobbie,

Thank you so much for checking in. :bighug:

If you look at the top of Mittens' spreadsheet on the right hand side of the TID Dosing banner you'll see details of the foods they have and their carb ranges.


Mogs
.
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
was 5 mL food and 10 mL water all Mittens consumed prior to her shot tonight?
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I'm not sure of the time frame your talking about. I'm sure you don't mean was that she ate all day. She ate 7.5mL half an hour before her shot and has had the 5mL with potassium and water since.
 
Actually, the drop has slowed a bit-- she's not crashing at the moment, but let's see what the experts have to say.

Have you been giving her food between the +1.5 and +2.5 readings, and if so, what?
 
Dan&Heather said:
I tested her again at 8:15 +2.5 -199 I'm worried about how quickly it's goiI ng down. I'm going to feed her again, should it be the regular stuff or the higher carb gravy stuff.
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I think I would just try to get 2 syringes of her regular food into her and test again in 1 hour.
I think Jill suggested giving the potassium in a small bit of food (like 5ml), and then giving her the rest of her food without potassium (like 15ml).
 
Dan&Heather said:
I'm not sure of the time frame your talking about. I'm sure you don't mean was that she ate all day. She ate 7.5mL half an hour before her shot and has had the 5mL with potassium and water since.
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Ok, thank you for clarifying.
Dan&Heather said:
I tested her again at 8:15 +2.5 -199 I'm worried about how quickly it's going down. I'm going to feed her again, should it be the regular stuff or the higher carb gravy stuff.
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I'd try to get about 15 - 20 mL low carb into her.
What you're seeing is what you want to see... the lower numbers you're working so hard to see.



Edited to add:
Try to feed 20 mL prior to her shot plus at least another 20 mL in each of the three cycles.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Dan and Heather, have you tried baby food, pure chicken, or turkey, beef or ham? It might have been suggested prior and I missed it. What kind of meter do you use?
Click to expand...
Hi Bobbie,

Thank you so much for checking in. :bighug:

If you look at the top of Mittens' spreadsheet on the right hand side of the TID Dosing banner you'll see details of the foods they have and their carb ranges.


Mogs
.
 
Ok, I just got done feeding her. I got her to sit thru two syringes of her regular food. Because we all know I cannot feed her without spilling some on my hands, I get about 7.5mL at a time with the syringe. So she just had 15mL of fancy feast classic. I guess I'm just so used to seeing her number way up that when they go into the better range it makes me nervous. I will test her again in one hour and see where she is at.
 
You're doing great! I think you two are awesome care takers for your girl :bighug: You have learned so much so well and so quickly.
I hope she is starting to appreciate all that you are doing for her. :cat:
 
Jill & Alex (GA) said:
Edited to add:
Try to feed 20 mL prior to her shot plus at least another 20 mL in each of the three cycles.
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I'm just trying to make sure I understand the above properly. Is the following correct, Jill?

Preshot Feeding: Test, then feed 20ml meal 30 mins before giving Novolin N.
Mid-cycle Feeding: Feed a total of 20ml over the course of the cycle.

Total food needed for cycle: 40ml

Total Daily Amount of Food (TID Dosing - 3 cycles): 40 x 3 = 120ml food per day.


Mogs
.
 
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Dan&Heather said:
Because we all know I cannot feed her without spilling some on my hands, I get about 7.5mL at a time with the syringe. So she just had 15mL of fancy feast classic.
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Awesome!

I'm going to let you in on a little syringe feeding trick... if you have a blender or food processor.

Whenever anyone talks about syringe feeding, they immediately tell you to blend some water and food into a slurry. That's fine, but when I do it that way, kitty and I end up wearing some of the food... and worse yet... sometimes it ends up shaken onto my walls, counters, or floors... oh, and always in my hair. I don't like it and being the normally fastidious creatures they are, kitty isn't happy either!

The solution: I stopped adding water when blending the food. Instead, I syringe water separately. Adding water while blending had a tendency to make the food mixture too runny and it was hard to keep it in her mouth. She'd shake her head and I'd end up wearing most of it. When blending without water, the mixture is almost fluffy and a thick pudding like consistency. When you gently squirt a little in the side of kitty's mouth it pretty much stays there instead of running out.

Since the mixture is creamy and thick, it'll also stay put if you squirt about a quarter-sized dollop on the back of your hand. Kitty can lick it off your hand instead of suffering the indignity of having a syringe put in their mouth. Alex much preferred licking it off my hand to putting a syringe in her mouth. I could get 30 mL into her in less than 15 minutes!

This method is so neat & clean that eventually I would feed Alex a little bit wherever she was in the house... including when she was laying on furniture or my bed.

Might be worth a try!


Edited to add: Alternate feeding 10 mL food with 5 mL water. Repeat after every 10 mL food fed.


 
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Dan&Heather said:
I guess I'm just so used to seeing her number way up that when they go into the better range it makes me nervous.
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We know that feeling! :nailbiting:

All the BG testing will gradually build up a picture of Mittens patterns of response to her insulin and it will act as a guide to keeping her safe and improving her BG regulation (hence the spreadsheet).

.
 
Critter Mom said:
Preshot Feeding: Test, then feed 20ml meal 30 mins before giving Novolin N.
Mid-cycle Feeding: Feed a total of 20ml over the course of the cycle.

Total food needed for cycle: 40ml

Total Daily Amount of Food (TID Dosing - 3 cycles): 40 x 3 = 120ml food per day.
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Correct. This is approximately the equivalent of 5.5 - 6 oz of food.
This is a guesstimate when you don't have any idea of how many calories you're feeding. Although, if kitty will eat more... go for it! Feed them a little more. It'll help.
 
I used to add the calories of the cans of food I put into the blender and then divide the total number of calories by the number of syringes I was able to fill up. I was using some pretty high calorie food, and pretty much got about 16 calories per syringe. I was trying for 220 calories per day for J.D., and Mittens probably needs more right now. When I was giving 16 calorie syringes, I needed to get about 14 syringes per day into J.D. to get him to the 220.

This is how I figured J.D.'s calories for the day: First I figured out how many calories the batch of food had in it, then I divided by how many syringes.
1/2 can MaxCal (333 per can) is 166.5 calories and 1/2 can Friskies Liver & Chicken (171 per can) is 85.5 calories and 1/2 can Natures Logic Feline Chicken Fare (241 per can) is 120.5 calories and 7.5 teaspoons of canned pumpkin (2 calories per teaspoon) is 15 calories equals a total of 387.5 calories. 387.5 divided by 24 syringes equals 16.15 per syringe.
Then, I counted the syringes I fed during the day and multiplied by the calories per syringe:
7 syringes at 16.15 per syringe equals a Total Of 113 Calories For AM, plus the few bites of FF he ate at 6:00am.
7 syringes at 16.15 per syringe equals a Total Of 113 Calories For PM.
TOTAL CALORIES FOR DAY IS 226, plus the LC he ate in the AM.
 
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