12/11 Osha PMPS 579 +4 282

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I would try the frozen version. The freeze dried is ok, you mix it with water. Doodles gets the S&C freeze dried as a topper.

So glad to see her coming down today!
 
Radcat is another "scoop & serve" raw. Doodles actually ate it a few times....then barfed and that was that. If you go on their website and do a store locator to see if it's even available somewhere close.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I would try the frozen version. The freeze dried is ok, you mix it with water. Doodles gets the S&C freeze dried as a topper.

So glad to see her coming down today!
Click to expand...

Thanks....so, for Stella and Chewys The ones on this page that say frozen dinners are the correct ones? The chicken, duck goose and rabbit?

https://www.stellaandchewys.com/products/cat-dinners/#

And are these the correct primal foods?

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/product/list/c/7/a/f/p/all/z/b/t/a/d/c

I do have a store near me that sells frozen raw so I will check them out today.

Is one brand better than the other? Any flavors I should stay away from?
 
Osha said:
Thanks....so, for Stella and Chewys The ones on this page that say frozen dinners are the correct ones? The chicken, duck goose and rabbit?
Click to expand...
Those are the right ones for both Primal and S&C. Some stores have them in the "patty" version too. For me being an ingredient nut...S&C would be my first choice. Primal has fruit :rolleyes: , salmon oil & cod oil...yuk.

The other option is to buy the EZcomplete, your own raw food and mix.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Ok, so you might just pick up a tub of the Radcat and a bag of the Primal. Go slow and see what Osha thinks. @Gussie's mom feeds Radcat.
Click to expand...
They have the stella and chewys too. It's on page two of their link.

I will try stella and chewys for the better ingredients.

Are the carbs for the different flavors listed anywhere?

Thank you SO much for your help!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
Some of them are listed on this chart. I'm sure they are still pretty close. http://catinfo.org/docs/SortableCatFoodChartCatinfo.org2-22-13.htm

Scroll down all the way toward the end .
Click to expand...
Thanks. They don't have stella and chewys listed

Stella & Chewy's
This company required that I sign a confidentiality agreement before they would provide 'typical nutrient analysis' data for their macronutrients (moisture, protein, fat, fiber, ash). This would obviously defeat the purpose of gathering data for this chart and exhibits a lack of transparency.
 
Yay Osha for giving some great numbers today! Keep up the happy surfing:D

Amanda, envisioning you in cartwheels of joy and relief! Yay.

for freeze dried raw foods: I've tried both Stella and chewy and primal. I backed off on them and the ezc food fur life homemade when Sootie started the vomiting (for those unfamiliar with Sootie: the vomiting etc recently determined to be bc of other conditions).
Of the Stella and Chewy combinations, the tribe here seemed happiest with the turkey, the chicken, and the salmon and cod. Not thrilled with the goose and duck (too fatty? I dunno).
I've tried the primal freeze dried turkey too. They liked it.

Yesterday was first day in weeks that I've added freeze dried raw to food. I only added a little bit of Stella and Chewy turkey to the pate (Sootie and Azalea) or other wet fud (for dancer, Bella and Spunky) but they accepted it ok.

I hydrate it with warm water. I blendered it yesterday to a smoother consistency to make it easier for Sootie. adding supplements appropriate in the blending.

I tend to alternate foods anyway, either fur variety or not get over saturated with one food only...or of course because if one fud gets nixed, try, try again..,

I hadn't tried primal freeze dried (turkey) for quite awhile but did within the past month or two; they liked it.

I've also used the EZC food fur life in doing homemade (and added a tad to baby fud during times when baby fud only thing becomes only fud can get sick kitty to eat. My goal with the ezc was to gradually transition to raw, but that's on back burner for now.

Hope this helps.
Btw: be sure to remove the silicone pack and the coupon pack from the Stella and Chewy packaging. I missed it one time while making a batch when I was half asleep. I found Bo at his fud dish happily gumming on a silicone pack, luckily undamaged and not swallowed. Good thing he had few teeth and was a slow but steady slurper.
 
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Osha said:
Thanks. They don't have stella and chewys listed

Stella & Chewy's
This company required that I sign a confidentiality agreement before they would provide 'typical nutrient analysis' data for their macronutrients (moisture, protein, fat, fiber, ash). This would obviously defeat the purpose of gathering data for this chart and exhibits a lack of transparency.
Click to expand...

Here's photo of the ingredients etc on back of Stella and Chewy's tummy lickin' turkey. Not sure if info is redundant to what's on websites or other info you have..
 

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HWright said:
Yay Osha for giving some great numbers today! Keep up the happy surfing:D

Amanda, envisioning you in cartwheels of joy and relief! Yay.

for freeze dried raw foods: I've tried both Stella and chewy and primal. I backed off on them and the ezc food fur life homemade when Sootie started the vomiting (for those unfamiliar with Sootie: the vomiting etc recently determined to be bc of other conditions).
Of the Stella and Chewy combinations, the tribe here seemed happiest with the turkey, the chicken, and the salmon and cod. Not thrilled with the goose and duck (too fatty? I dunno).
I've tried the primal freeze dried turkey too. They liked it.

Yesterday was first day in weeks that I've added freeze dried raw to food. I only added a little bit of Stella and Chewy turkey to the pate (Sootie and Azalea) or other wet fud (for dancer, Bella and Spunky) but they accepted it ok.

I hydrate it with warm water. I blendered it yesterday to a smoother consistency to make it easier for Sootie. adding supplements appropriate in the blending.

I tend to alternate foods anyway, either fur variety or not get over saturated with one food only...or of course because if one fud gets nixed, try, try again..,

I hadn't tried primal freeze dried (turkey) for quite awhile but did within the past month or two; they liked it.

I've also used the EZC food fur life in doing homemade (and added a tad to baby fud during times when baby fud only thing becomes only fud can get sick kitty to eat. My goal with the ezc was to gradually transition to raw, but that's on back burner for now.

Hope this helps.
Btw: be sure to remove the silicone pack and the coupon pack from the Stella and Chewy packaging. I missed it one time while making a batch when I was half asleep. I found Bo at his fud dish happily gumming on a silicone pack, luckily undamaged and not swallowed. Good thing he had few teeth and was a slow but steady slurper.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing Sina!! I am so thankful for all of us crazy cat people and all the knowledge here!! :bighug::bighug:

I was very relieved with her numbers today. If she had stayed in yellow I was going to increase tonight. I guess I will hold off now for a bit. I hope she will show me some green soon!
 
Gizmo ate the frozen Primal pellets for a while. Not sure where you live but the chain Natural Pawz carries it (https://naturalpawz.com/). Gizmo really liked the pork:confused:. Make sure it doesn't have freezer burn on it. I returned/exchanged a couple of bags because of that.

The only thing I didn't like about the frozen was it turned to mush when I added water to it. I always add 1-2 tablespoons of water to his food because of the crf/kidneys. I read that pheasant and rabbit were LC and low phosphorus but would be hard pressed to find where I read that:cool:.

You can email Primal and they will respond.

I have posted their response before but will find it and post it again for. Give me a bit to find it.
 
Hi sorry overslept..
Ok here's my advice as someone who has fed raw for over 15 years and tried every kind out there at one time or another.
1) ECID totally applies here. You may have to try tons before you find just the texture, aroma, who knows what, they are cats after all..that appeals to OSH.
I tried to stick to chubs or ground meat with home added supplement because many of the other forms have veggies in them and it was drummed into my head that cats dont need veggies, they are carnivores.
2) I think it's a texture thing
3) see if your store that sells raw gives free samples or has a Liberal return policy. Most that sell raw do, mine is free returns no matter what.
4) mine won't touch anything that comes as a pellet, or a patty, or any such processed, East to measure and feed format, I think the texture is strange.
Here are the ones I've had success with and feel comfortable recommending
Bravo Basic turkey, chicken or rabbit: it is nothing but ground up single ingredient animal with organs and bone, as I recall the bone was medium finely ground
Primal:Any of the grinds, they are just meat and bone and organ meat, their bone grind was not particularly fine
Small Batch Blend: also a grind in a chub that just has meat, bone and organ meats ground up. I had success with this one, they loved the rabbit.
Halshan ground meat: I feed their meat only grind with a supplement mix in. They also have about every kind of meat you can think of, I also use the ground turkey necks and ground hearts. What i am currently feeding again
Rad Cat: they process their chicken and turkey now with HHP processing whatever that is. End result is I ended throwing away more than I fed. Mine wouldn't eat anything other than the chicken or turkey but they also have beef and lamb and venison that are not processed. It's easy, complete, just scoop and go and is very moisture rich.
HareToday: online from here, may be closer to you. Family run farm that has everything from frozen mice to buffalo and everything in between. They have a fine grind that is really nice, no need to weed out any chunks and it was tolerated without so much as a blink. Problem is cost efficiency and it's too hot here for frozrn food deliveries. Had a whole bunch go bad so stopped doing that
Feline's pride: Shelby former owner and founder died.they had a complete diet similar to rad cat in a tub that was great. I even drove to SanDiego to get it but I've read they have real service issues now that he is gone. Product was great tho do it's too bad.
(Vital Essentials: this one was really weird, just tried it. It is the color of red dye!! I've never seen such red meat and juice, can't be natural! Turkey is not a red meat! They wouldn't eat it anyway!
Savage cat: new to my pet store, too expensive but looks like it's an all in one, again mine wouldn't eat it, a texture thing again)

You are pretty much going to have to do a lot of frustrating at times trial and error. Since she ate the Darwins, I'd start with something similar in texture tho your girl is a chowhound so it may not matter. ,:cat:

I know Primal does a sample raw pack that the store should have. It has a patty of all of their patty frozen flavors. Worth asking for.

ECID so that trial and error piece goes with the territory! One word of advice I'd give tho is once they have one they like, stick to it, all my food difficulties always, and I stress always, come from when I decide they'd like more variety and switch up something in their food supply. Mine are ok eating the same flavor every day, kind of like when I worked at a pizza parlor, same pizza every nite never got old cuz I thought it was perfectly yummy!

Gotta get dressed, need to get Gussies post up!
Do you have the chain Naked Dog? They deliver locally. I'd google raw pet food in my area, you might find one that delivers locally! They keep adding raw to all sorts of stores, our feed stores carry some now too.
 
My question to Primal was their designation re: Protein Tempeture
Cooling
Neutral
Warming
Hot

Here is their response:
Whether Frozen or Freeze-Dried, the protein’s energetic attribute remains the same. So, for your easy reference, I have listed the food energetics of each protein below.
  • Beef - neutral
  • Chicken – warming
  • Duck – cooling
  • Lamb - hot
  • Pheasant - warming
  • Pork - neutral
  • Rabbit - cooling
  • Turkey – warming (however, turkey is considered an anti-inflammatory protein, despite being warming)
  • Venison - hot
Additionally, because I am not a holistic vet, pet nutritionist, or an official on the concept of food energetics in Eastern medicine, here is a more informative article on the topic, in case you’d like to learn more about it.
The Energetics of Pet Food
Food Energetics Charts
Thus, to summarize, from what I understand, if you have a red, high energy, highly reactive, or allergic pet, they’re most likely a hot warming or hot dog, and would do best on a neutral or cooling diet. By contrast, more lethargic animals that appear to make less energy from their foods are cool dogs, and as such, better accommodated by neutral, warming, or hot foods. The concept of food energetics is more of a soft science which should present helpful indicators in the event that you feel it necessary or beneficial to more closely cater to your pet’s digestive sensitivities (in my experience, I see this information as most helpful if your pet is exhibiting signs of allergy, energy extremes, digestive sensitivity, or other symptoms of ill health or old age). You do not have to abide by these recommendations, and I always encourage the importance of Rotational Feeding over adhering to energetic attribute-based recommendations.
Please always feel free to reach out again any time and I will be happy to provide further assistance! Best of wishes to you and the fur family in your quest for the best nutrition! Take care, have a great day, and a lovely rest of your week!
Best Wishes,
Angeline King
Marketing / Customer Service
Primal Pet Foods t: 415.813-5542 | toll free: 866.566.4652 f: 415.642.7404 | w: primalpetfoods.com e: aking@primalpetfoods.com

Here is another link that I had in my files re: raw diet -
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/easy-raw-feeding-for-the-busy-person

Feline's Pride: A very good, grain and vegetable free complete diet. Antibiotic and preservative free. Available in chicken, turkey, Cornish hen and duck. They will ship direct to you or you can purchase from one of their distributors. My cats love this stuff! Their recipe is very close to the Feline Nutrition homemade recipe.

Nature's Variety: Grain free complete foods for cats and dogs, hormone and antibiotic free. Be aware that their formulations do contain some fruits and vegetables, with a carbohydrate content of about 3%. Available in nuggets, patties, and chubs in chicken, beef, lamb, venison, rabbit and organic chicken. Sold at retail outlets. They also have a line of freeze dried complete foods.

Aunt Jeni's: Complete foods for cats and dogs. They use free-range meats, that are hormone and antibiotic free. Available in chicken, turkey, beef and rabbit. Please note that this product does contain some fruits, vegetables and seeds, and the carbohydrate content is around 3-4%. Available at retail outlets, or they will ship frozen if you are not in an area where it's available.

Primal: Offers formulas that are complete foods in chicken and salmon, beef and salmon, turkey, pheasant, quail and venison. The product comes in nuggets. Their complete formulas do contain some fruits, vegetables and seeds, but carb content is low at 1%. They use human-grade meat that is hormone, antibiotic and steroid free. Available at retail outlets.

Bravo: Offers complete foods in turkey, chicken and beef patties. Poultry is hormone and antibiotic free, and the beef is grass fed. Be aware that they do add some vegetables to their complete foods. Carbohydrate content is about 3%. Available at retail stores. They have a handy "How Much to Feed" Calculator on their site.

Rad Cat Raw Diet: All natural, free-range or pasture raised meats are used, hormone and antibiotic free. No grains or vegetables are used. Available in turkey, chicken or lamb. They also sell chicken neck and turkey gizzard treats. Mostly available on the west coast.
 
Another note - I know for a fact that Natural Paws/Primal will exchange/refund an open bag for what ever reason - for some reason Gizmo just stopped eating the Turkey one day. No real reason for it - I called and they said "sure, bring it back" - I was impressed.
 
Gussie's mom said:
process their chicken and turkey now with HHP processing whatever that is.
Click to expand...
When I was researching I was wondering what it was also - I finally found it but not until after much research.

Here is what Primal's website says about HHP:

How HPP Works
Essentially, this technology "puts the squeeze" on food pathogens without cooking out vital nutrients or changing the fresh characteristics of food. During High-Pressure Processing, pressure is uniformly applied around and throughout the food product. High-Pressure Processing can be conducted at refrigerated or even frozen temperatures, which means the temperature starts low and stays low — High-Pressure Processing does not cause the heat degradation that happens during cooking.

http://www.primalpetfoods.com/education/foodsafety
 
Gussie's mom said:
You are pretty much going to have to do a lot of frustrating at times trial and error. Since she ate the Darwins, I'd start with something similar in texture tho your girl is a chowhound so it may not matter. ,:cat:

I know Primal does a sample raw pack that the store should have. It has a patty of all of their patty frozen flavors. Worth asking for.

ECID so that trial and error piece goes with the territory! One word of advice I'd give tho is once they have one they like, stick to it, all my food difficulties always, and I stress always, come from when I decide they'd like more variety and switch up something in their food supply. Mine are ok eating the same flavor every day, kind of like when I worked at a pizza parlor, same pizza every nite never got old cuz I thought it was perfectly yummy!

Gotta get dressed, need to get Gussies post up!
Do you have the chain Naked Dog? They deliver locally. I'd google raw pet food in my area, you might find one that delivers locally! They keep adding raw to all sorts of stores, our feed stores carry some now too.
Click to expand...

Wow! Thanks Les! So much wonderful information!!! This group is amazing!

No, looks like Naked Dog is on in California.

Like you said, I think it's going to be trial and error. I just wish I knew why Osha started having trouble with the Darwins.
 
LizzieInTexas said:
My question to Primal was their designation re: Protein Tempeture
Cooling
Neutral
Warming
Hot

Here is their response:
Whether Frozen or Freeze-Dried, the protein’s energetic attribute remains the same. So, for your easy reference, I have listed the food energetics of each protein below.
  • Beef - neutral
  • Chicken – warming
  • Duck – cooling
  • Lamb - hot
  • Pheasant - warming
  • Pork - neutral
  • Rabbit - cooling
  • Turkey – warming (however, turkey is considered an anti-inflammatory protein, despite being warming)
  • Venison - hot
Click to expand...

Soooo interesting!!! :bookworm::bookworm:
 
Ok...yes I have ANOTHER question. I got the stella and chewys chicken. The bag says a 10lb cat could get 1 3/4 cup per day. That seems like a huge amount. She is currently eating 6 ounces a day. Am I completely missing something here?! Can someone help me with this math?
 
Not sure unless it has to do with the amount of whatever is in it..my rule of thumb is pretty much a healthy third of a cup is usually about the right amount, all my cats get the same portion, and their sizes vary.. might have to do with the density of the food?
Mine ate the Darwins too at first then snubbed it. I didn't like the salt in it...
They are cats!
 
LizzieInTexas said:
My question to Primal was their designation re: Protein Tempeture
Cooling
Neutral
Warming
Hot

Here is their response:
Whether Frozen or Freeze-Dried, the protein’s energetic attribute remains the same. So, for your easy reference, I have listed the food energetics of each protein below.
  • Beef - neutral
  • Chicken – warming
  • Duck – cooling
  • Lamb - hot
  • Pheasant - warming
  • Pork - neutral
  • Rabbit - cooling
  • Turkey – warming (however, turkey is considered an anti-inflammatory protein, despite being warming)
  • Venison - hot
Additionally, because I am not a holistic vet, pet nutritionist, or an official on the concept of food energetics in Eastern medicine, here is a more informative article on the topic, in case you’d like to learn more about it.
The Energetics of Pet Food
Food Energetics Charts
Thus, to summarize, from what I understand, if you have a red, high energy, highly reactive, or allergic pet, they’re most likely a hot warming or hot dog, and would do best on a neutral or cooling diet. By contrast, more lethargic animals that appear to make less energy from their foods are cool dogs, and as such, better accommodated by neutral, warming, or hot foods. The concept of food energetics is more of a soft science which should present helpful indicators in the event that you feel it necessary or beneficial to more closely cater to your pet’s digestive sensitivities (in my experience, I see this information as most helpful if your pet is exhibiting signs of allergy, energy extremes, digestive sensitivity, or other symptoms of ill health or old age). You do not have to abide by these recommendations, and I always encourage the importance of Rotational Feeding over adhering to energetic attribute-based recommendations.
Please always feel free to reach out again any time and I will be happy to provide further assistance! Best of wishes to you and the fur family in your quest for the best nutrition! Take care, have a great day, and a lovely rest of your week!
Best Wishes,
Angeline King
Marketing / Customer Service
Primal Pet Foods t: 415.813-5542 | toll free: 866.566.4652 f: 415.642.7404 | w: primalpetfoods.com e: aking@primalpetfoods.com

Here is another link that I had in my files re: raw diet -
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/easy-raw-feeding-for-the-busy-person

Feline's Pride: A very good, grain and vegetable free complete diet. Antibiotic and preservative free. Available in chicken, turkey, Cornish hen and duck. They will ship direct to you or you can purchase from one of their distributors. My cats love this stuff! Their recipe is very close to the Feline Nutrition homemade recipe.

Nature's Variety: Grain free complete foods for cats and dogs, hormone and antibiotic free. Be aware that their formulations do contain some fruits and vegetables, with a carbohydrate content of about 3%. Available in nuggets, patties, and chubs in chicken, beef, lamb, venison, rabbit and organic chicken. Sold at retail outlets. They also have a line of freeze dried complete foods.

Aunt Jeni's: Complete foods for cats and dogs. They use free-range meats, that are hormone and antibiotic free. Available in chicken, turkey, beef and rabbit. Please note that this product does contain some fruits, vegetables and seeds, and the carbohydrate content is around 3-4%. Available at retail outlets, or they will ship frozen if you are not in an area where it's available.

Primal: Offers formulas that are complete foods in chicken and salmon, beef and salmon, turkey, pheasant, quail and venison. The product comes in nuggets. Their complete formulas do contain some fruits, vegetables and seeds, but carb content is low at 1%. They use human-grade meat that is hormone, antibiotic and steroid free. Available at retail outlets.

Bravo: Offers complete foods in turkey, chicken and beef patties. Poultry is hormone and antibiotic free, and the beef is grass fed. Be aware that they do add some vegetables to their complete foods. Carbohydrate content is about 3%. Available at retail stores. They have a handy "How Much to Feed" Calculator on their site.

Rad Cat Raw Diet: All natural, free-range or pasture raised meats are used, hormone and antibiotic free. No grains or vegetables are used. Available in turkey, chicken or lamb. They also sell chicken neck and turkey gizzard treats. Mostly available on the west coast.
Click to expand...
Question! Are you getting your Felines pride without issues? I loved that stuff and Shelby the creator was such a cool person. I was buying it when he first started the co and used to talk to him a lot in the early days. He spent a lot of time figuring out what the components were to a rat and based his food on that research! He was great. I haven't ordered since before he passed but have read long timers have had issues. If it's getting to you ok I might try again! That's what I drove to SanDiego for, a long two hour drive in ugly traffic but it was worth it!
 
Gussie's mom said:
Maybe because the format allows for spaces in that measuring cup? Is it patties or nuggets?
Click to expand...
It is the nuggets. They only had patties for the dog food.

I was looking at it and eyeballing it, it seems like a little more than half a cup is good for one cycles worth of food, meaning half of that for ps meal, and then split the remaining half for her +3 and +5 snack. Total of 1 1/4 cup a day.

I swear this disease and food is turning me into a complete fruit loop. I'm not even sure what I wrote above makes any sense! I don't know what I am doing.
 
Osha said:
It is the nuggets. They only had patties for the dog food.

I was looking at it and eyeballing it, it seems like a little more than half a cup is good for one cycles worth of food, meaning half of that for ps meal, and then split the remaining half for her +3 and +5 snack. Total of 1 1/4 cup a day.

I swear this disease and food is turning me into a complete fruit loop. I'm not even sure what I wrote above makes any sense! I don't know what I am doing.
Click to expand...
Ah guessing it's allowing for the volume variation since it's not packed down like brown sugar!
 
Osha said:
I got the stella and chewys chicken. The bag says a 10lb cat could get 1 3/4 cup per day. That seems like a huge amount. She is currently eating 6 ounces a day. Am I completely missing something here?! Can someone help me with this math?
Click to expand...
That does seem like a lot. My gang were both getting about 1/4 lb or 125 grams a day total in food. If you have a kitchen scale, that's quite handy for serving raw. The Natures Variety was also small nuggets and worked out to about 1/2 cup per cycle.

I often fed raw with a tiny bit of veggies, no more than 2%. It simulates what is in the prey stomach and added a little bit of carbs (3-4%) which can help if you have a diving cat.

Osha said:
PMPS 579!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::arghh::arghh::arghh:
Click to expand...
Really Osha? That's a little over the top. Sorry about that, looks like a good night for sleep. :bighug:
 
Ok. I give up!!!!! I just put a little bit of the stella and chewys in her pm food and she just threw it up. What the H is going on?!:(:(:(:(
 
oh Osha black like Lincoln last night.. come on sweetie black is not a good color on you in this case... Amanda i know the feeling of seeing that number and the sink in your stomach... she will be ok... she will come down... hope you mom is continuing to feel better.. :bighug::bighug:
 
Lincolns Mom said:
oh Osha black like Lincoln last night.. come on sweetie black is not a good color on you in this case... Amanda i know the feeling of seeing that number and the sink in your stomach... she will be ok... she will come down... hope you mom is continuing to feel better.. :bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Thanks Amber....I feel like I just need to have a good cry right now.

My mom is feeling better, thank you for asking. :bighug::bighug:
 
Oy yoy yoy yoy yoy, Osha! You're worrying your mama bean and everyone else too!

Dear Osha,
What the heck happened? There is far too much barfing and tummy, digestive issues and p'titis going around...fwiw from me...it is nooooooo fun whatsoever. Does your tummy hurt? Do you want your mama to give you some probiotics and or slippery elm? Do you want some baby fud? Some bone broth? a raw liver shake? If you keep up doing the pukus thing, your mama's gonna bring out the feeding syringe and then take you to the Vetty bean....
Yours in also trying to beat the vicissitudes of pukus,
Sootie
 
So sorry about the high number this pmps Amanda. :bighug:.

Everything that goes high will come down, hope it will be soon.
It's quite strange with a nadir going in the right direction. Maybe
Osha feels your mood and is also affected ? It's just normal with all
what's going on in your life.

Hope your mother is recovering well, that's very important as well.

Prayers for both of you for courage in these high seas moments.

Sébatien
.
 
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Osha said:
Thanks Amber....I feel like I just need to have a good cry right now.

My mom is feeling better, thank you for asking. :bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...
Know the need to cry and the worry all too well. Thank goodness for broad shoulders aplenty here in LL to let the tears out here. We're not alone. Tons of hugs and comforting vines abounding for and with you. Hang in there. You are an amazing wonderful and devoted bean❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
 
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HWright said:
Know the need to cry and the worry all too well. Thank goodness for broad shoulders aplenty here in LL to let the tears out here. We're not alone. Tons of hugs and comforting vines abounding for and with you. Hang in there. You are an amazing wonderful and devoted bean❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Click to expand...

This community is just amazing. I am so thankful I am not alone and I've learned sooo much from everyone here. The support given is just fabulous!!:bighug:
 
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