? 11/17 Boomer, AMPS 142 .1u +3 88 +6 86 PMPS 79 .1u Wellness info rec'd, could someone do the calc?

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Judy and Boomer

Judy and Boomer

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Yesterday
Good morning!
Boomer let me sleep again last night! I gave him his +3 and stayed up to make sure he ate most/all of it, then put a plate of food down for his +6, +9 and went to bed. DH got up just before my +9 alarm and picked up the remaining food which apparently was the +3 leftovers; +6 and +9 consisted of NV turkey which he really likes!
My concern with the above......even though he had eaten most of his +3, when I put the plate down with +6 and +9 on it, he started eating it. I was hoping he would just nibble a bit and walk away but I checked a few minutes later and he had eaten about half of it! So he had a lot of food at +3 and I'm concerned that feeding that much at +3 will slow the insulin down too much. I guess I'll find out in a few minutes at AMPS.

Thank you @Gill & George and @Marje and Gracie for helping with the NV carb calculations yesterday! For anyone who feeds Nature's Variety, I received the analysis from Nature's Variety yesterday so carb values are current, there is a tab on Boomer's spreadsheet if you're interested.
 
AMPS 142 shooting .1u
Today I'm going to email the company that produces Wellness and get their values. I would really like to find a food that Boomer likes that is lower in carbs; I thought NV would work but it too is higher than what is indicated on Dr Pierson's list.
 
I have wanted to leave food down for Doodles and just pick it up 2 hours before but it just won't work. 1, I'd have no idea when or how much he ate because surely Moo would help herself and 2, ever since FD and timed meals Doodles won't eat by himself. He still eats the majority of his food from my hand :arghh:

Ok Boomer, work the juice buddy.
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I have wanted to leave food down for Doodles and just pick it up 2 hours before but it just won't work. 1, I'd have no idea when or how much he ate because surely Moo would help herself and 2, ever since FD and timed meals Doodles won't eat by himself. He still eats the majority of his food from my hand :arghh:

Ok Boomer, work the juice buddy.
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And it's funny but Boomer has been eating better by himself since I've been free-feeding instead of using the auto feeder! But I get up at 5:00 to remove his leftovers and I have no idea when he's last eaten. And of course last night he ate his +3 AND half of his +6/+9 all at +3. I'm not sure whether that would be enough to basically stop the insulin from working but his BG this morning would support that theory. I think I will go back to the auto feeder.
 
Nice +3 Boomer. Gosh, I still don't understand this carb stuff. I am shocked of how much higher the values are than I thought. Bubs get the venison and the rabbit. At least they are the two lower ones but, a hard pill to swallow that the venison is not 0% carbs. o_O
 
Hey Judy, I just revisited your thread from yesterday and Marje's figures for % for carbs are lower than what you have in your SS . Maybe I am not understanding this correctly.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Nice +3 Boomer. Gosh, I still don't understand this carb stuff. I am shocked of how much higher the values are than I thought. Bubs get the venison and the rabbit. At least they are the two lower ones but, a hard pill to swallow that the venison is not 0% carbs. o_O
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I know, I was going by Dr Lisa's list believing that the NV values were correct. But I haven't been able to find a good alternative to the NV yet....Boomer is so carb sensitive that I really want to give him food between 1% and 4% but I can't seem to find any!
 
Judy and Boomer said:
I know, I was going by Dr Lisa's list believing that the NV values were correct. But I haven't been able to find a good alternative to the NV yet....Boomer is so carb sensitive that I really want to give him food between 1% and 4% but I can't seem to find any!
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Have you tried the venison? My boys love it. I pick the carrots and peas out of the NV.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
@Marje and Gracie has indicated that feline nutritionists would use the % of calories calculation.
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The best to use is % calories but you need the DMB or as-feds to get to the % calorie basis from each macronutrient. The reason is because with the DMB, you are using raw values which do not account for the energy. The %calorie basis accounts for the energy generated by the calories consumed.

Does that make sense? I might not have done a good job explaining it but hopefully I have. Just remember that for cats, as humans, we look at calories as the value indicating how much energy is available in a food.

@Bobbie And Bubba: please let me know where you are confused so I can help. We aren't headed out for the day but just post it on Bubba's condo...or here if Judy doesn't care...and I'll respond when we get back.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
The best to use is % calories but you need the DMB or as-feds to get to the % calorie basis from each macronutrient. The reason is because with the DMB, you are using raw values which do not account for the energy. The %calorie basis accounts for the energy generated by the calories consumed.

Does that make sense? I might not have done a good job explaining it but hopefully I have. Just remember that for cats, as humans, we look at calories as the value indicating how much energy is available in a food.

@Bobbie And Bubba: please let me know where you are confused so I can help. We aren't headed out for the day but just post it on Bubba's condo...or here if Judy doesn't care...and I'll respond when we get back.
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Marje your explanation is fine; it's my head .....I will need to read and reread this to get it. What does DMB stand for?
 
I sent an email to Wellness today asking for the breakdown of their grain free canned foods. I have received a reply and have populated a tab of Boomer's ss with the info. I can't use Janet's calculator to calculate carbs as a % of calories; could someone help me out and calculate the four types of food?
 
Ok i am super confused now by the foods... when i asked natures instinct about their salmon this was the response...
Hi Amber – the Carbohydrate percentage in the Instinct canned salmon is 2% as fed.


Thanks for your support!


Sincerely,

Ronni
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Anyone understand how they can say 2% but the math says 9.09%?
 
Lincolns Mom said:
Anyone understand how they can say 2% but the math says 9.09%?
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You want to calculate carbs as a percentage of calories, not by weight which is probably how Nature's Variety gave the info. Dr. Lisa has an extended description of the calculation here.

Boomer's looking great on this dose again. :D
 
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Lincolns Mom said:
Ok i am super confused now by the foods... when i asked natures instinct about their salmon this was the response...


Anyone understand how they can say 2% but the math says 9.09%?
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Ronni....Wendy is correct and I'll elaborate.

When the food is made, it is required that the batches are tested to ensure that they actually meet requirements and that there is an exact measurement instead of just "minimum xxx" or "maximum xxx" because there is often a lot of variation between what the minimum/is and what the food might actually contain. Somwhen they test it, they only give you the percentages of the the macro- or micronutrient in the food but they don't tell you what percentage of the total calories each one comprises.

Because it is the calories that give us an idea of how much energy is available in the food, that's what we convert the as-feds or DMB to so we ca actually see how much energy we get from the food.

Here's what I posted for Judynon Boomer's 11/16 condo for how to convert the as-feds or DMB to % calories. Also note, there is a calculator (see the second question on that link) that does this automatically as well.

You'll want the as-feds or DMB values for protein, fat, carbs, ash, fiber, moisture. Sometimes they don't have carbs so you add all the others together and then subtract from 100 to get carbs. When all totaled, they should equal about 100.

Then take the protein, fat, and carbs values, drop the %, and do this:
Multiply protein and carbs each separately, by 3.5
Multiply fats by 8.5
Total the above numbers (add the values for P,C, F together)
For each one, divide the value you got for the specific macronutrient by the total.

For example, let's say the DMB for carbs was 10, protein was 30, and fat was 20:
C: 10 x 3.5 =35
P: 30 x 3.5 = 105
F: 20 x 8.5 = 170
Total: 35+105+170=310

%calories from carbs = 35/310= .11 or 11%

Judy and Boomer said:
I sent an email to Wellness today asking for the breakdown of their grain free canned foods. I have received a reply and have populated a tab of Boomer's ss with the info. I can't use Janet's calculator to calculate carbs as a % of calories; could someone help me out and calculate the four types of food?
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I'll do this for you, Judy, but you might also want to use the formulas above and do it, too, so you can make sure you get the same as I do....that way, you'll know how to do it.
 
Judy

Here's what I got for the Wellness foods on your SS:

Chicken, turkey, and chicken liver: 7.7% calories from carbs
Salmon, whitefish, and herring: 13% " "
Beef, venison, lamb: 5% " "
Turkey and duck: 5%. " "
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Ronni....Wendy is correct and I'll elaborate.

When the food is made, it is required that the batches are tested to ensure that they actually meet requirements and that there is an exact measurement instead of just "minimum xxx" or "maximum xxx" because there is often a lot of variation between what the minimum/is and what the food might actually contain. Somwhen they test it, they only give you the percentages of the the macro- or micronutrient in the food but they don't tell you what percentage of the total calories each one comprises.

Because it is the calories that give us an idea of how much energy is available in the food, that's what we convert the as-feds or DMB to so we ca actually see how much energy we get from the food.

Here's what I posted for Judynon Boomer's 11/16 condo for how to convert the as-feds or DMB to % calories. Also note, there is a calculator (see the second question on that link) that does this automatically as well.

You'll want the as-feds or DMB values for protein, fat, carbs, ash, fiber, moisture. Sometimes they don't have carbs so you add all the others together and then subtract from 100 to get carbs. When all totaled, they should equal about 100.

Then take the protein, fat, and carbs values, drop the %, and do this:
Multiply protein and carbs each separately, by 3.5
Multiply fats by 8.5
Total the above numbers (add the values for P,C, F together)
For each one, divide the value you got for the specific macronutrient by the total.

For example, let's say the DMB for carbs was 10, protein was 30, and fat was 20:
C: 10 x 3.5 =35
P: 30 x 3.5 = 105
F: 20 x 8.5 = 170
Total: 35+105+170=310

%calories from carbs = 35/310= .11 or 11%


I'll do this for you, Judy, but you might also want to use the formulas above and do it, too, so you can make sure you get the same as I do....that way, you'll know how to do it.
Click to expand...
Thanks so much @Marje and Gracie I will fill in the chart on Boomer's ss tomorrow and try the calculation myself! Lots more research to be done before this is over!
 
Marje and Gracie said:
Ronni....Wendy is correct and I'll elaborate.

When the food is made, it is required that the batches are tested to ensure that they actually meet requirements and that there is an exact measurement instead of just "minimum xxx" or "maximum xxx" because there is often a lot of variation between what the minimum/is and what the food might actually contain. Somwhen they test it, they only give you the percentages of the the macro- or micronutrient in the food but they don't tell you what percentage of the total calories each one comprises.

Because it is the calories that give us an idea of how much energy is available in the food, that's what we convert the as-feds or DMB to so we ca actually see how much energy we get from the food.

Here's what I posted for Judynon Boomer's 11/16 condo for how to convert the as-feds or DMB to % calories. Also note, there is a calculator (see the second question on that link) that does this automatically as well.

You'll want the as-feds or DMB values for protein, fat, carbs, ash, fiber, moisture. Sometimes they don't have carbs so you add all the others together and then subtract from 100 to get carbs. When all totaled, they should equal about 100.

Then take the protein, fat, and carbs values, drop the %, and do this:
Multiply protein and carbs each separately, by 3.5
Multiply fats by 8.5
Total the above numbers (add the values for P,C, F together)
For each one, divide the value you got for the specific macronutrient by the total.

For example, let's say the DMB for carbs was 10, protein was 30, and fat was 20:
C: 10 x 3.5 =35
P: 30 x 3.5 = 105
F: 20 x 8.5 = 170
Total: 35+105+170=310

%calories from carbs = 35/310= .11 or 11%


I'll do this for you, Judy, but you might also want to use the formulas above and do it, too, so you can make sure you get the same as I do....that way, you'll know how to do it.
Click to expand...
@Marje and Gracie thank you for the above formula; using your information I have created a calculator to do the above and saved it in Boomer's ss
 
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