11/6: Cliff|AMPS=440 (NS), PMPS=439

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MiCo

MiCo

Active Member
Hello! I have a couple of questions after this AM's routine.

Cliff woke us up at 5am, which is now 4am with the time change. But since he woke us up, we went ahead with his routine.
  • Test was fine, no trouble.
  • I gave him 1/4 of 5 oz can, but he only ate about half of what was on his plate. He started off eating very good, but the just stopped. It was a fresh can, & I tried sprinkling Bonita flakes on top to get him to finish eating.
  • When we first started insulin this week, I had asked the vet what the minimum amount he should eat to get his shot would be and she said: 1/2 3oz can or 1/4 5 oz can was her estimate.
  • Hubs and I talked and decided to skip this AM insulin. Better to be safe, and we are new to this and not sure if he ate enough this AM to shoot.
  • I sat with him, pet him. I tried to hand feed him the rest, but He was done eating. He was purring and accepting pets, so I don't think anything else going on. He didn't quit eating to run and hide from shot or anything. He was actually a very willing participant today.
Questions:
  1. I had pre-measured his insulin into a syringe to have it ready to go. That syringe is capped and in the fridge now. Is it ok to use later at PM shot time? Or should I draw a new one at that time?
  2. Would 1/8 of 5oz can have been ok to shoot, since he ate well yesterday? In your experiences? That's about 0.5 oz.
We had been feeding smaller meals throughout the day, because that's what they were used to. But I might feed less throughout the day today and see if he's more hungry at PM time.

Have a great day!
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PM update:
  • Cliff's ear is starting to bleed more easily, yay! Also, I used a tissue and tried to hold pressure a little longer than I was previously. Lots of pets were given, a few treats, etc.. He did good!
  • Cliff ate enough to get his evening shot! It was just me, but I think it went in (no fur shot.) I will try to test later to see.
 
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Good morning.

Some of the older insulins were much faster acting and could cause larger drops earlier, so with those you would want a full meal on board before giving the shot. With Prozinc it is fine to shoot even if Cliff did not eat all his breakfast at once, Since Prozinc takes several hours before it begins having an effect it is not as critical to eat a full meal before the shot. As long as Cliff is eating and will eat more a little later after the shot, you can give the usual amount.

At numbers as high as 440 it is not a good idea to skip shots. If you are able to still give the shot now...I am assuming it is about 1 hour since the regular shot time....that would be the best approach as long as Oliver's appetite is fine. If shooting late does not mess up your schedule times then I would give the shot :bighug:


ETA Since I posted this much earlier about still giving the shot, giving the shot at this point may not work well with your schedule
 
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I agree with Mary Ann about the amount of food needed before a ProZinc shot. It's slower and sometimes later to kick in than the Vetsulin, etc. I understand you wanting to be cautious about shooting at this point in your FD journey. You didn't this AM but don't worry. If you'd had a fur shot, the outcome would be the same. :) Pick up where you left off this evening.

It looks to me that you'll need to raise Cliff's dose a bit in the days ahead. No need to jump on this today. Are you using U40 syringes? If so, I suggest buying some U100s because they'll allow you to make much smaller dosing adjustments. You'll need this insulin dosing conversion table:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

Sounds like Cliff is already coming around to the "new normal". That's great! I'll bet the two humans are feeling a tad more relaxed as well. ;)
 
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Tuxedo Mom said:
Good morning.

Some of the older insulins were much faster acting and could cause larger drops earlier, so with those you would want a full meal on board before giving the shot. With Prozinc it is fine to shoot even if Cliff did not eat all his breakfast at once, Since Prozinc takes several hours before it begins having an effect it is not as critical to eat a full meal before the shot. As long as Cliff is eating and will eat more a little later after the shot, you can give the usual amount.

At numbers as high as 440 it is not a good idea to skip shots. If you are able to still give the shot now...I am assuming it is about 1 hour since the regular shot time....that would be the best approach as long as Oliver's appetite is fine. If shooting late does not mess up your schedule times then I would give the shot :bighug:


ETA Since I posted this much earlier about still giving the shot, giving the shot at this point may not work well with your schedule
Click to expand...

Thank you, Mary Ann, for your reply. I will keep this information in mind for the future. As long as he eats later, he will get his PM shot.
 
I agree. As long as he has eaten some - and seems to be feeling well - it should be safe to shoot: advice for next time.. (Maybe today's flavor is not his favorite? When that happens with Niko, he just takes longer to eat it, but eventually caves). He will likely to be real high tonight, but I would stick with the regular dose. (The high level is likely to be because of the 24 hours since the previous shot, not because the dose is low). One thing you can do is shoot earlier than usual, if it will fit with your schedule going forward.

I agree with Kris that he might need a dose increase, but it'd be nice to have a nadir on this dose before you do that. Any chance you can get one in the next cycle or so?
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I agree with Mary Ann about the amount of food needed before a ProZinc shot. It's slower and sometimes later to kick in than the Vetsulin, etc. I understand you wanting to be cautious about shooting at this point in your FD journey. You didn't this AM but don't worry. If you'd had a fur shot, the outcome would be the same. :) Pick up where you left off this evening.

It looks to me that you'll need to raise Cliff's dose a bit in the days ahead. No need to jump on this today. Are you using U40 syringes? If so, I suggest buying some U100s because they'll allow you to make much smaller dosing adjustments. You'll need this insulin dosing conversion table:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/insulin-conversions.htm

Sounds like Cliff is already coming around to the "new normal". That's great! I'll bet thew two humans are feeling a tad more relaxed as well. ;)
Click to expand...
Hi Kris, Good Morning! Thank you for chiming in as well. I will definitely keep this in mind at future feedings/insulin times. And thanks for the note comparing our decision to NS to a furshot. It helps. I'm not gonna worry. :)

We have our first follow-up/recheck with the vet this coming week. I am sure she will adjust dosing then, or I may email her earlier. But thank you for that dosing note as well!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I agree. As long as he has eaten some - and seems to be feeling well - it should be safe to shoot: advice for next time.. (Maybe today's flavor is not his favorite? When that happens with Niko, he just takes longer to eat it, but eventually caves). He will likely to be real high tonight, but I would stick with the regular dose. (The high level is likely to be because of the 24 hours since the previous shot, not because the dose is low). One thing you can do is shoot earlier than usual, if it will fit with your schedule going forward.

I agree with Kris that he might need a dose increase, but it'd be nice to have a nadir on this dose before you do that. Any chance you can get one in the next cycle or so?
Click to expand...
Thanks, Sue. Cliff is historically our picky eater, so the way he suddenly stopped eating his AM plate concerned me enough to NS (bc I wasn't sure how his appetite would be later.) I sat with him for several min and tried all the tricks I know that have worked to "jump start" his appetite in the past. This whole week has been new food for my guys & they have been champs at adjusting. I've been keeping a notebook/log of what we're feeding, so if there is one he doesn't like as much -I'll track that and make an adjustment. :)

Thank you for the note abt tonight's # possibly being higher. That is a good reminder. Is nadir usually the mid-pt? I was taking +2 and +3 during the week. I tried a mid-cycle yesterday but got an error bc Cliff was fussing.
 
The nadir sometimes is a moving target but a number 5-7 hours after the shot will usually give you some idea about the lowest point. The reason you want to know how low he goes is to see if he is flat all through the cycle or if he drops low and bounces back up for preshot. The first indicates an increase; the second may not.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
The nadir sometimes is a moving target but a number 5-7 hours after the shot will usually give you some idea about the lowest point. The reason you want to know how low he goes is to see if he is flat all through the cycle or if he drops low and bounces back up for preshot. The first indicates an increase; the second may not.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I am also re-reading the Prozinc protocol links too. Each time reading, I understand a little more.
 
It's good to read them over several times...it is a lot to learn and I think you learn more each time.

It's good to get whatever data you can. Getting +2 and 3 is good when you know you won't be home to get a nadir. Especially in the early days, I advocate gathering as much data as you can.
 
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