? 10/25 Boomer AMBG 164 +3 146 PMBG 130

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Don't bother looking up Hare Today - I wouldn't try to get raw meat shipped across the border. Instead, see if you have a good butcher store, or ideally, an exotic meat butcher store near you. One that has organic, non medicated is also good. Usually butchers will grind meat for you, and in small amounts so you can try it out.

I also wouldn't worry too much about a little bit of veggies in raw food. The Red Dog/Blue Kat adds 2% juiced veggies, the idea being to try to simulate what is in the prey's stomach and that adds natural vitamins instead of adding vitamins separately. I've talked extensively to the owner of the Red Dog/Blue Kat company (it's just 5 minutes away from me). She's done a lot of research on raw and they only use organic, non medicated meat. NV Chicken medallions is 5% veggies and other products (like pumpkin seeds) so higher % but should still be OK carb wise. And it does not contain fish - only their chicken and tuna flavour contains fish. I haven't tried the rabbit flavour - Neko was CKD when it came out and it's higher in phosphorus. You can also get a "bites" version vs. medallions and you can get a small package so you don't waste too much if kitties don't like it.

One other thing - many raw manufactures have sample packs for you to try. Ask around.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Don't bother looking up Hare Today - I wouldn't try to get raw meat shipped across the border. Instead, see if you have a good butcher store, or ideally, an exotic meat butcher store near you. One that has organic, non medicated is also good. Usually butchers will grind meat for you, and in small amounts so you can try it out.

I also wouldn't worry too much about a little bit of veggies in raw food. The Red Dog/Blue Kat adds 2% juiced veggies, the idea being to try to simulate what is in the prey's stomach and that adds natural vitamins instead of adding vitamins separately. I've talked extensively to the owner of the Red Dog/Blue Kat company (it's just 5 minutes away from me). She's done a lot of research on raw and they only use organic, non medicated meat. NV Chicken medallions is 5% veggies and other products (like pumpkin seeds) so higher % but should still be OK carb wise. And it does not contain fish - only their chicken and tuna flavour contains fish. I haven't tried the rabbit flavour - Neko was CKD when it came out and it's higher in phosphorus. You can also get a "bites" version vs. medallions and you can get a small package so you don't waste too much if kitties don't like it.

One other thing - many raw manufactures have sample packs for you to try. Ask around.
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We have tried the Red Dog/Blue Kat as well- and they seemed to like it- they just got picky over time.. but we did recently buy 3 varieties- and plan on trying again- its even better to know that you have had contact with the owner:) And so confusing- this food stuff- but will stick wth what we have been doing for now. Good Luck at the vet @Judy and Boomer :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Thanks for all the info @Wendy&Neko and everyone else!
 
Doodles & Karen said:
I dislike the NV raw for that reason too Leslie. If you try Darwins you need to add supplements in case you weren't aware of that. Hare-Today has every protein available. Even though Doodles never ate raw, it was my dream lol so have done a bit of research on it.

Wendy gave you lots of good options Judy!
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I am under the impression that Darwins is complete and no supplements necessary. I do add 1/8 tsp of taurine twice a day as freezing/ thawing destroys some of the levels.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Always look at the dry matter carb % on the bottom right column. This show the % of calories which is what you want to go by
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This is interesting. I just put in the figures for Nature's Variety Venison which is supposed to be 0% carbs and the dry matter is 4%. I did not realize that it is the dry matter to look at. Gosh, this is so confusing...... thanks Judy for letting us all highjack your thread. Hope we are all learning something. Thanks for that calculator, Mary Ann, as I am terrible with math.
 
Thanks everyone!
Based on the timing of Boomer's increased levels (happened the day before we started a new case of fancy feast) I think he is starting to come out of remission yet again and likely the issue with the change in the fancy feast (if there actually was a change) is not helping. He goes to see vetty-bean late tomorrow afternoon for some blood work. Meanwhile, DH and I are going to our neighbourhood pet store to see what I can find. And unfortunately I have a newborn session tomorrow (really wish I didn't) so I will have to switch focus for a while to set that up.


Bobbie And Bubba said:
This is interesting. I just put in the figures for Nature's Variety Venison which is supposed to be 0% carbs and the dry matter is 4%. I did not realize that it is the dry matter to look at. Gosh, this is so confusing...... thanks Judy for letting us all highjack your thread. Hope we are all learning something. Thanks for that calculator, Mary Ann, as I am terrible with math.
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@Bobbie And Bubba I believe that Wendy is saying that it's not the dry matter calculation that we need to do but the calorie calculation. It's a bit beyond me today; I have so many things happening right now I can't think straight. And I can't use the excel worksheet because I'm on a mac.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Hi Sandi, I actually meant to post the formula I use to calculate! So here it is:

100 - % protein - % moisture - % fat - % fibre - % ash = %carb
The above will give you the % carb in the wet food.
But since water has no protein/fat/fibre/ash in it, you need to take the water (moisture) out of the equation
So if the % moisture is given at 80%, then by default the dry matter is 20%

Take the % carb that you calculated and divide it by the dry matter % then multiply by 100 and that will give you the % carbs in dry matter

Here's an example from ff Ocean Whitefish and Tuna (note I took the values straight from the can label last night)

protein 12.0%
fat 2.0%
moisture 78%
fibre 1.5%
ash 3.7%

The above totals 97.2% therefore 100-97.2 = 2.8% carbs in wet matter

Since the moisture content is 78% by default the dry content is 22%

2.8 divided by 22 and multiplied by 100 equals 12.73% carbs in dry matter
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You’re missing a step to actually calculate the % calories from carbs which is what we use when deciding what foods to feed our FDs. First, you cannot use the values off the label of the can as these are guaranteed analysis. You have to actually get the as-feds or the DMB from the company. I know some people use Schedyer’s (spelling?) formula to estimate % calories from carbs from the guaranteed analysis but feline nutritionists don’t. But, let’s assume that you called the company and the numbers they gave you, above, are the as-feds. Plugging those into the calculator to determine % calories from carbs, this food would be 14%.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
This is interesting. I just put in the figures for Nature's Variety Venison which is supposed to be 0% carbs and the dry matter is 4%. I did not realize that it is the dry matter to look at. Gosh, this is so confusing...... thanks Judy for letting us all highjack your thread. Hope we are all learning something. Thanks for that calculator, Mary Ann, as I am terrible with math.
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When doing the calculation you are looking at the dry matter % of calories . The calculator I posted gives that number on the right side at the bottom. Remember the good old days when you would just go out and buy a can of food based on price and flavour??? :rolleyes:
 
I also feed raw and I use Food Fur Life EZ Complete. It’s simple, it’s got great ingredients, and I control the meat issue. I’ve heard RadCat has had some issues.

FFL ships to Canada. While I buy my meats at Whole Foods and exotics butcher for the venison, the owners buy theirs at the supermarket. It doesn’t have to be difficult. They have great info on their website for transitioning.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
I also feed raw and I use Food Fur Life EZ Complete. It’s simple, it’s got great ingredients, and I control the meat issue. I’ve heard RadCat has had some issues.

FFL ships to Canada. While I buy my meats at Whole Foods and exotics butcher for the venison, the owners buy theirs at the supermarket. It doesn’t have to be difficult. They have great info on their website for transitioning.
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How do you find an exotic butcher? I have a headache from all the formula talk.........I need chocolate.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
How do you find an exotic butcher?
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Google. :p Another option for me for buying bulk raw meat is pet food stores specializing in raw food. I have a couple near by that are row on row of freezers and I can get plain ground meat there. That's where I got the elk. But it's frozen and I'd have to thaw to mix it with the premix, so I prefer the fresh ground.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
You’re missing a step to actually calculate the % calories from carbs which is what we use when deciding what foods to feed our FDs. First, you cannot use the values off the label of the can as these are guaranteed analysis. You have to actually get the as-feds or the DMB from the company. I know some people use Schedyer’s (spelling?) formula to estimate % calories from carbs from the guaranteed analysis but feline nutritionists don’t. But, let’s assume that you called the company and the numbers they gave you, above, are the as-feds. Plugging those into the calculator to determine % calories from carbs, this food would be 14%.
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@Marje and Gracie you lost me; how do you come up with 14%?
 
Glad that he's liking the new food! ...and my tired brain couldn't process all of those percentages... maybe I will have something halfway intelligent to add after a few hours of sleep.

But, in the meantime, I am crossing fingers (and the kits are crossing their paws) that Boomer's numbers will come back down.
 
Come down, Boomer, so that we can all take a break from these tedious calculations!:banghead:

I'm a math cripple, so I just trust to faith that my old standby-- Wellness-- is sufficiently low in carbs. Make sure you buy Wellness in the small , 3 oz., cans (product of Canada). The larger cans are made in the USA and apparently don't taste as good.
Vines for Boomer's vetty visit.
 
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