Diabetic Cat, 11 yrs old, is on DM

[swingate231]

Tiger is 11 yrs old and is a tabby who parents were ferial but I have raised him since 3 weeks. He was diagnosed with diabetes earlier this year and takes 1 unit of insulin 2 times a day with ProPlan DM ( the ground kind because he will NOT eat the chopped). I give him 1 to 2 cans a day, and he follows me around complaining. And to make his point, he will nip me! He gained back the weight he lost prior to finding out he had diabetes. What do I do now? Vet said not to give him more than 2 cans a day. He is not very active. But where ever I am ..... he is.... does not play well with other animals... ever.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Welcome to FDMB. Sounds like Tiger has quite the cattitude nipping you when he wants more food! Tiger may have gained back the weight he lost, but is he now at his ideal weight? How are his BG levels? Unregulated cats can't get all the nutrition out of the food they take in so sometimes they do need a bit more than the suggested portions. How often do you feed him? If you are feeding him twice daily, which many vets advice, that may be part of the problem. Many if not most of us here, divide food up over several meals/snacks per day to keep kitty satisfied. What kind of insulin are you using? That too may be playing a role in Tiger's seemingly insatiable appetite.

Are you home testing Tiger's BG levels? If so are you using a human or pet meter? We strongly advocate doing this to keep Tiger safe and it might also give you more insight into exactly when he is most hungry and why. BG levels are constantly fluctuating and kitties that are running high want food as do kitties who are running low. If BG levels are only checked at the vet, they can often be elevated due to stress leading the vet to prescribe more insulin than is really needed. This in turn causes the body's defense system to pump out hormones to raise the blood sugar levels and cause more hunger.
If we can get you to set up a signature (the lighter grey text below my post) with the info I asked about (type of insulin, dose, if you are home testing what meter you use) as well as Tiger's diet info, any other health concerns, date of diagnosis and perhaps your location (state, province, country) so that if you need any purchasing assistance we can provide pertinent info, your name, and anything else you think we need to know, it will be on each of your posts and we won't keep asking you the same questions repeatedly and be able to offer support pertinent to you and Tiger.

To set up a signature, hover you mouse cursor over your user name in the upper right corner of your screen. A menu will drop down and you click on Signature in the left hand column. This opens a text box where you can type in this info. The box only allow 3 lines of text so we separate different bits of info with a "|" or "/" if space becomes an issue.

BTW....I have a non-diabetic feral rescue (mine from 5 days old) and I have come to the conclusion that you can take the kitten out of the feral colony but you can't take all the feral out of the cat. Mine has plenty of cattitude too but I love it!

 

[swingate231]

Sorry for the long delay, my life is pretty hectic trying to pack so we can sort of be ready whenever the deal goes through for selling our property. Also the husband's health requires LOTS of my attention with doctor, lab, and clinic appointments.

As for Tiger, he probably became diabetic a year ago, but I didn't learn of it until March or April of this year. I can tell you that the insulin he is taking is ProZinc and 1 unit 2x's daily. I basically feed him twice a day but some days I give him more than the 1 can and sometimes 2. He still complains, but not as much. I don't know anything about any of the things you asked me about and do not do home testing. Even when I give him more food almost immediately after he has had breakfast, he does not always eat it then, but does later on. Does not stop him from haunting my every move, just slows it down and gives me a break for awhile....hahahaha. Usually he wants to be where ever I am. I can tell from his body language when he is going to attack because he is NOT a happy camper. In retaliation I have gently smacked him one when he gets in my lap and then bites me, or runs up behind me and grabs my leg and nips. I reached a zero tolerance level for that and I have told him countless times that he CANNOT be in my lap and then bite me or MAKE me pet him. For him it is "hit and run".... he strikes and then takes off like a jet. I suppose some of that may be the "ferial" in him as he as always been an aggressive kitty.

Tiger originally lost weight and the vet's response when I brought him in was that he could lose another 2lbs. Tiger's weight has always remained about 12-13lbs. He went in weighing 11.9lb in March and 25 Apr he weighed in at 12.1lb. I brought in Tiger to vet 31 Mar 2016, he was tested and found to be diabetic, put on ProZinc insulin, and then I had to bring him back in one more time and they did a curve on him to see IF this was the right dose of insulin. He was there for most of a day where they determined that it is the right dose.

The husband is diabetic and has a glucometer and testing strips, but you have to understand that Tiger is NOT going to be cooperative. I only get the insulin shot in him because I do it when I give him his food and he doesn't mind.

We currently live in the Minnesota River Valley in farmland, but plan on making a move to Southeast Texas, but probably not until Jan.... unknown for now.

I hope I gave you the all the information you asked for. And thank you for responding.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Sheila, you obviously have your hands full with packing up your home and dealing with DH's health so having the added strain of Tiger's diagnosis and behaviour is challenging to say the least.

Most cats can be trained to accept testing (with some bribery) but sometimes it takes a lot of patience and slow progressive steps. If you are interested in trying to get Tiger to accept testing we have all sorts of tips & tricks up our sleeve that will give you the tools to at least give it a good try and hopefully end up with a co-operative kitty who comes to get you at test time. And yes, I have one of those kitties who actually comes to get me quite often. Testing can be done on the ears or the paws so see which Tiger is more amendable to you fussing with and start by just fussing without anything but a treat to finish up whether he co-operates or not. Tiger will learn to associate the fussing with his ears or paw as a good thing. Once he's comfortable with that, then you start adding one step at a time towards actually testing. Freeze dried chicken treats like Pure Bites are ideal. If you buy the dog rather than cat treats, they are less expensive and you can jut break the dog treats up into kitty size bites.

I take it Tiger was not quite so aggressive (nipping for food) before his diagnosis and that behaviour may at least partially be due to how he is feeling. Unfortunately, the trick to getting kitty regulated is to home monitor so you can hone in on when kitty is running high or running low, when those behaviours you don't like occur and intervene accordingly to keep kitty feeling as good as possible. The lack of regulation will cause Tiger to not feel unwell and in some instances, one type of insulin will not work as well for one kitty as it does for another and a change of insulin can make a big difference.

I would caution you about "gently smacking" Tiger to stop his biting as that might actually be perpetuating rather than stopping the behaviour. Cats are trained much easier with positive reinforcement than negative. So the next time he is nipping or biting, push whatever he is biting into his mouth vs. pulling away. I know this is SOOOOO counterintuitive but he won't like that you are pushing towards his mouth and determine you are no longer prey he wants to deal with, let go and probably give up. My geriatric guy is front foot declawed (not my doing) and was a biter too. If he tried to bite me, I always pushed my hand into his mouth instead of pulling away. It didn't take long before he realized who had the upper hand and tempered this behaviour considerably. If you repeatedly do this, Tiger will eventually get the idea that you are not going to be his prey. You could also try to engage him in more playtime to give him another outlet for any food frustration etc.

If you want to pursue the testing or have other questions, please come join us over in the Health Forum where the majority of folks check for messages and responses are often numerous and far quicker.

 

[swingate231]

Thank you for your response. Your information is very helpful to me and I do appreciate it a great deal. As for the "gentle smack", I do want to clarify that I have raised 8 children and do not believe in corporal punishment as a whole as there are other ways to deal with bad behavior than striking a child. The same is true for animals. Reward good behavior to modify the unwanted. With Tiger, I have held my arm still instead of pulling away, pushed back, and best response to his doing something like getting on a table he is NOT supposed to be on, is to yell "HEY" even when biting me. He knows better and will get down, or stop with the biting. But his strike from behind when I am walking is his current favorite way to attack me, so I turn around and walk backwards or have a pillow or something that I can stop him with. He will strike it and then walk off like it was no big deal.... But I don't always know or am prepared for it. He knows that I don't like it and will just come back around a little later.

He does not play with toys... ALTHOUGH... he will catch an object like a small pillow like toy or ball and drop it immediately. Catch and release, and then walks off as if he's not interested....LOL. I have one other thing that is string like that he will play with for a short time. But other than those, he really isn't into toys.

His FAVORITE thing is when I sit down and he just helps himself to my lap and assumes "the position"....LOL. That is when he puts his paws on my chest and his butt in my lap. I am then required to do the rubbing and his eyes roll back in his head when I rub his eyes . That really is funny! But he has assumed the position and then tried out biting me and I just shove him off me and remind him he cannot bite me and me pet him.... not happening! Haven't figured out why he does that.

I have to watch the costs as we live on a VA pension. We have a Great Pyrenees dog for the outside dog and a cat (Boots) who prefers to live outside ( and Tiger hates). Where do I get the testing supplies? Is it like human testing? The husband has to that a couple of times a day and keep a log. As for the testing, he does NOT like me to touch his paws, but since I can pet the head and rub the ears, that is the most likely area to do testing. I do not think Purebites are available here. Is there some other treat I can use? And can I give him chicken lunchmeat, tuna, or cooked ground beef?

I feel like I am so ignorant regarding Tiger's health. Ask me about human issues... I can tell you all kinds of things as I have to advocate for my husband and am the "holder of the information" when we see doctors (and we see a lot of them).

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Hi Sheila,

Linda (Mr. Worf's Mom) has given you great advice above. Sounds like Tiger is the ruler of his universe! You mentioned in your last post that you need to keep costs down. One thing many of the people here do is feed grocery store brands of low carb wet food like Friskies or Fancy Feast, pate versions only. I mix this with my cat's Pro Plan DM. DM is very expensive as you know and there's no reason why Tiger can't be a healthy diabetic on the proper grocery store stuff. That could give a huge food savings to you. Tiger could be fed 4+ small meals a day instead of only two and this might make him less food focused. As far as amount, he might need a bit extra as a diabetic but you can weigh him weekly to see how he's doing - baby scale if you have one or hold him while you stand on a human scale.

Many people save money by using a human glucose meter and test strips. There are a few Walmart ReliOn types that are favoured here. The pet meter is expensive and the strips are outrageous in cost - no need for that. Testing before giving insulin is key. Once you get good at it, you won't have to take him to the vet for a curve - very expensive. You're already way ahead of many folks because of your knowledge of human diabetes. I hope I've given you some helpful info.

If you decide you want to set up a spreadsheet for Tiger, there are instructions and help here to do that. This is viewable by all members of the forum and it's how they're able to see what's happening with Tiger, give advice, etc. You won't feel as though you're trying to figure it all out alone.

 

[swingate231]

Thank you Kris. I am such a by the book kind of person that I would not have thought to mix two brands of the cat food...LOL. Great idea that I will use as there are usually coupons for the Fancy Feast and Friskies. As for the diabetic testing, the VA has the hubby using the Accu check Aviva for the testing meter. Is that a good one for feline testing? And how do I do the test on the ear? I know, that sounds like a stupid question, but the ears are so thin. The paws are not an option.

I looked at your spreadsheet but am not sure at what I am seeing. Just looks like numbers. Tiger takes 1 cc? (unit) of ProZinc twice a day, but not always 12 hours apart.

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Thank you Kris. I am such a by the book kind of person that I would not have thought to mix two brands of the cat food...LOL. Great idea that I will use as there are usually coupons for the Fancy Feast and Friskies. As for the diabetic testing, the VA has the hubby using the Accu check Aviva for the testing meter. Is that a good one for feline testing? And how do I do the test on the ear? I know, that sounds like a stupid question, but the ears are so thin. The paws are not an option.

I looked at your spreadsheet but am not sure at what I am seeing. Just looks like numbers. Tiger takes 1 cc? (unit) of ProZinc twice a day, but not always 12 hours apart.

Hi Sheila,

Yes, there are people on here who use an AccuCheck Aviva for their kitty. If you post a thread asking about this meter on this forum with a title preceded by the question mark icon, you'll get responses for sure. Given that you already have one for your husband, you wouldn't need to buy a meter.

Here's a thread discussing ear prick testing that has a lot of detail and a diagram;
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/trouble-with-ear-prick.163180/#post-1753067

Here's an informational "Sticky" on how to read a spreadsheet:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

Here's how to set up a spreadsheet. This is probably too much detail for now so don't panic! We can help later on:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

I'm not surprised that Teasel's spreadsheet looks like a jumble of numbers to you right now. It's really a lot simpler to fill in and read once you have more experience.

You use ProZinc (as do I) so I suggest you go to the ProZinc forum and introduce yourself. This is where you can get specific info/help for this insulin.

Take a deep breath! I've just given you an avalanche of info. Read it slowly over time in small bits. No rush.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

As for the diabetic testing, the VA has the hubby using the Accu check Aviva for the testing meter. Is that a good one for feline testing?

You can certainly use the Accu-Check Aviva however one thing to keep in mind is that kitty is not going to be as complacent as Hubby at least at the beginning and the Accu-Check needs a sample twice the size of the Relion Micro or Confirm available at Walmart. The strips for the Aviva are likely more expensive than those for the Relion meters. I'm in Canada so I can't tell you exactly what the difference is, but a quick internet search leads me to think that purchasing a Relion meter for Tiger might be more economical for you and make testing a bit easier.

I do not think Purebites are available here. Is there some other treat I can use? And can I give him chicken lunchmeat, tuna, or cooked ground beef?

Sure! Everything you suggest is plain protein so any of those are excellent options. Some folks poach up some chicken breast and cut it into bite size pieces for treats. There are other low carb retail treats available but I'm in Canada so I'm not sure what's available in your neck of the woods. You can get more recommendations from folks either on Health or the ProZinc forum.

One thing to keep in mind is that kitties have very few nerve endings in their ears so they don't feel the ear pokes nearly as much as we humans feel finger pokes. Yes the ear is thin, but having a tissue or makeup pad behind the ear for support and holding the lancet at a 45-60 degree angle usually gets you a decent sample without harpooning right through. A little pressure after the poke to prevent bruising is all it takes. Most kitties don't even notice.....it's the fussing with their ears rather than the poke that causes most kitties any issue.

I feel like I am so ignorant regarding Tiger's health. Ask me about human issues... I can tell you all kinds of things as I have to advocate for my husband and am the "holder of the information" when we see doctors (and we see a lot of them

You may be quite surprised to find you know more than you think you do. Once you start home testing, you will see that while there are some differences, many general principles of dealing with diabetes apply across species.

 

[swingate231]

SO much has happened since last I wrote. I found the Little Friskies Pate and bought some cans of that and he did just fine. In fact he actually gained weight on it. I fed Tiger 1/2 can of the DM in the morning and then 1/4 to 1/2 can of the Little Friskies in the afternoon and sometimes mixed it with the DM in the evening. Some days there was no afternoon snack. He did really well as he actually gained weight!

Then about 2 weeks ago he went off food all together. He ate nothing. He acted like he felt okay. No food for 2 or 3 days and I tried everything.... dry food, his treats, yogurt, pudding, whatever I thought he would eat. Nothing was consumed AND he did not lose any weight!....LOL Took him to the Vet and nothing was in his bloodwork. Doctor gave him a shot for pain, and 1/4 pill to increase appetite. Still not interested in food. They showed me how to force feed him using the AD for urgent care cat food because it is a little more liquidy. He ate some but not much... I'm upset to say the least. Then last Tuesday, a week after not much food, gave him another round of pain shot and increase in appetite med. Next day, not real interested in food, but did eat a little bit of the AD. Two days after meds and he VOLUNTARILY ate 1/4 can of the AD and his treats! No insulin has been given since he went off food. So now we are at almost 2 weeks with no insulin. Over the weekend I gave him 1/4 can of the AD but heated it as they said cats like the smell of their food, so I did that and he ate the AD and some dry food. Not much but he was eating. Took him in to Vet today for glucose test and it as 97 and he lost 1/10th of a pound...lol.

Don't know what is going on with him but he is more docile and is clingy which is unlike him as he has always been a bit of an agressive kitty. But where ever I am... he thinks he has to sit on me. So Doctor has said no more insulin, but should give him pate or the DM as he is an older kitty and should not have the carbs of dry cat food.

The fact that he never lost any weight when he went off food was a sign that the insulin was working. But since he was still not losing weight after not being on insulin for some days, was also a good sign and hence the glucose test to verify that he just does not need it any more...

Cats are the only animal that can go from diabetic to undiabetic.... And apparently that is what he has done. I am happy that he is apparently doing better, and am enjoying the docility that he now shows... Thank you all for giving me the info that I needed. It was very helpful to know of the Pate type cat food, and the mixing of it with the DM. I would never have thought to do that! The other really helpful info came from the vet's office when I was told to try heating the canned cat food to entice him to eat because of the smell. So I hope someone finds that piece of information helpful also.

 

[Callie & Patches]

What wonderful news! OTJ!!!