Fred: Pulled out his e tube!

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So glad to see Fred is back home
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Sending lots of healing energy to keep Fred on the mend and get him back to eating with gusto!

:bighug: :bighug: :bighug:
 
Well I can't say for certain that it was the food, the vet says pancreatitis isn't typically caused by food reactions. But his illness coincided with him eating a can of Friskies liver and chicken that I got in a Poultry Favorites multi pack. I wrote to Purina, they haven't replied. I took the food back to Target. They didn't know if any other cats had gotten sick. I d K what else could have made him sick other than just being a diabetic in remission and being part Siamese as these are prone to pancreatitis.
 
My greatest worry with Saoirse was food. There was sod all she could manage to eat comfortably. It took me the best part of a year to find something that didn't irritate her pancreas. Even variations between batches were a worry.

Humans with pancreatitis need to watch their diets very closely.

How is Fred today? Is he eating a bit for you? Still keeping you both in my prayers.

:bighug:


Mogs
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The workings of a kitties endocrine system are so inter-related that it is often difficult to tell what caused the problem and what started first. Interesting read on a kitty's endocrine system:

http://www.petplace.com/article/cat...-and-function-of-the-endocrine-system-in-cats

Since you noticed the problem in direct response to feeding the food, I would certainly not say that the food is not suspect. It may or may not be, but to be safe it shouldn't be given again.

:bighug: :bighug:
 
Thanks for all the good info ! Mary Ann that white cat in the diagram looks like Fred. He still seems like he's very groggy from sedation 2 days in a row. And meds? He isn't eating this morning yet. I'm gonna sprinkle the Fortiflora on a bit of Fancy Feast with Pedialyte mixed in and see if he will eat. I have given Bupe or cerenia yet. I got no instructions from vet re admin with food etc.
we've got Buprenorphine .15 mL
Cerenia 16mg and Metronidazole .4 ml but he doesn't have diarrhea. There was about a quarter size bit of blood in his litter yesterday. No poop.
 
Be very careful with the Fortiflora! It can make some cats nauseated.

Do you have any freeze-dried chicken treats? Maybe try crumbling one or two on top of the food.


Mogs
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Jamye and Fred said:
Thanks for all the good info ! Mary Ann that white cat in the diagram looks like Fred. He still seems like he's very groggy from sedation 2 days in a row. And meds? He isn't eating this morning yet. I'm gonna sprinkle the Fortiflora on a bit of Fancy Feast with Pedialyte mixed in and see if he will eat. I have given Bupe or cerenia yet. I got no instructions from vet re admin with food etc.
we've got Buprenorphine .15 mL
Cerenia 16mg and Metronidazole .4 ml but he doesn't have diarrhea. There was about a quarter size bit of blood in his litter yesterday. No poop.
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Isn't that funny I found one that looks like Fred? :D

It would be a concern if Fred does not start eating at home. At this point you want to get him eating no matter what it takes. Please keep us updated
 
Critter Mom said:
Be very careful with the Fortiflora!; It can make some cats nauseated.

Do you have any freeze-dried chicken treats? Maybe try crumbling one or two on top of the food.


Mogs
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Good point Mogs. Fortiflora does indeed make one of my kitties sick (nausea and vomit) if I give it to her.
 
Managing the nausea is key. You need to keep a little something in the tummy otherwise stomach acid can build up and that would just worsen the eating difficulties. When you give the Cerenia (assuming it's a tablet) you'll need to chase it down with a little water to stop it from lodging in the oesophagus. Syringe water across the mouth from cheek to cheek a little bit at a time to allow Fred time to swallow. I usually gave about 10 - 15 ml of water.

Did the vet say anything about the intestinal bleeding?


Mogs
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Tuxedo Mom said:
It would be a concern if Fred does not start eating at home. At this point you want to get him eating no matter what it takes.
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This.

Mash up the food with a little warm water and try offering it to Fred from your hand. Or try blending a little food and water into a purée and see if he will lick a little off your fingers. Try feeding very small amounts very frequently.

If Fred is still reluctant to eat tonight I recommend in the strongest terms that you go to your vet first thing in the morning and get a prescription for ondansetron. Here's useful information Marje posted on another thread about nausea meds:

Treating Nausea with Cerenia and Ondansetron


Mogs
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He's drooling a lot so it's hard to say if the cerenia stayed down. I'm following it with syringe water. Should I give the Bupe even though he hasn't eaten? About fortiflora- he's never had it before. Should I wait and see if he will eat and how he responds? Really want him to eat but obviously he's not wanting to right now. I have no freeze dried chicken treats but will get some.
 
Critter Mom said:
This.

Mash up the food with a little warm water and try offering it to Fred from your hand. Or try blending a little food and water into a purée and see if he will lick a little off your fingers. Try feeding very small amounts very frequently.

If Fred is still reluctant to eat tonight I recommend in the strongest terms that you go to your vet first thing in the morning and get a prescription for ondansetron. Here's useful information Marje posted on another thread about nausea meds:

Treating Nausea with Cerenia and Ondansetron


Mogs
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I saw this thread before and forgot to tell the vet about the Ondan
 
Jamye and Fred said:
He's drooling a lot
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Check his hydration levels ASAP.

How long has he been drooling? Was it after you gave the metronidazole? (It is foul-tasting.)

Don't be shy about taking him back to the vet today if required.

What did your vet advise about dosing for the bupe?

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Critter Mom said:
Check his hydration levels ASAP.

How long has he been drooling? Was it after you gave the metronidazole? (It is foul-tasting.)

Don't be shy about taking him back to the vet today if required.

What did your vet advise about dosing for the bupe?

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Check hydration levels how? He was drooling when I picked him up yesterday. Then he stopped ,and started again this morning. I didn't give him the Metro. He doesn't have diarrhea. He had a quarter size amount of blood in his box yesterday no poop. My vet didn't give me any instructions. I haven't seen him since I took Fred in on Wed. I talked on the phone with him once. He must have gotten some of the Metro before he came home because his drool was nasty smelling. I'm giving him water with my fingers and will try to get him to eat some watered down Fancy Feast with my fingers. A friend is bringing freeze dried chicken treats and syringes to give water.
 
StephG said:
Has anyone else had problems with this food? I have the same kind with the same SKU numbers. :nailbiting: I feed it to my non-diabetic cat, Kitty. He's eating and acting normal and he's 3 cans into the case. How quick did Fred's symptoms come on?
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The food started giving Fred diarrhoea, Steph. Have you any other food you can give to Chuck? I think it would be a good idea not to risk giving him food from a batch that is in any way suspect.


Mogs
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Jamye and Fred said:
he is talking to the birds through the window.
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Good that he is showing interest in his environment.

What did the vet say about the bupe?

How is Fred reacting when you offer food to him? Is he showing any interest at all in eating? Is he lip-licking licking or making yawny faces after attempting to eat? Sniffing at / licking some food then walking away?

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He seems to be hydrated. He's been on IV fluids at the vets and he's not vomiting and no diarrhea. He's apparently just nauseated and uncomfortable as he's not lounging, he's in loaf position. I have a call in to the vet.
 
He turned away from me when I put moistened food on his lips. He is urinating so I assume he's drinking.
Thank you both for being here!
 
Jamye and Fred said:
He turned away from me when I put moistened food on his lips. He is urinating so I assume he's drinking.
Thank you both for being here!
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That sounds like nausea alright.

You need to keep a close watch on Fred's water intake. Measure the amount of water you put into the bowl and then measure it again in a couple of hours. Can you keep him in one room with you where you can monitor what he's doing? You need to make sure he's getting enough fluids - lack of adequate hydration will make him feel worse.

Could you get a written Rx from the vet today for ondansetron and go to a pharmacy open on Sunday to get it filled? (It's a human medication.)

I've been in your shoes and it's tough. I hope I can help you a bit, Jayme. :bighug:


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I'm concerned about giving the Bupe as I'm pretty certain a that's what makes him hallucinate/ acted quite freaked out at the vets. I'm giving him water via a straw. And when I get a syringe I'll give some watered down food.
 
Jamye and Fred said:
I'm concerned about giving the Bupe as I'm pretty certain a that's what makes him hallucinate/ acted quite freaked out at the vets. I'm giving him water via a straw. And when I get a syringe I'll give some watered down food.
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With pancreatitis, which is very painful, the three things needed for sure are pain relief, anti nausea meds and hydration. Appetite stimulants are fine once the nausea is under control.
 
Jamye and Fred said:
I'm concerned about giving the Bupe as I'm pretty certain a that's what makes him hallucinate/ acted quite freaked out at the vets. I'm giving him water via a straw. And when I get a syringe I'll give some watered down food.
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You can always remove the needle from a syringe and use the tube part to give water...it is really too small for longterm use but it is easier to use than a straw


ETA a small pair of pliers will remove the needle easily
 
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Agree with Mary Ann; pancreatitis flares are painful. Managing the nausea and the pain is critical because the cat needs to eat.
Jamye and Fred said:
I'm concerned about giving the Bupe as I'm pretty certain a that's what makes him hallucinate/ acted quite freaked out at the vets.
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Ask your vet about the bupe dose. Was it given to you in pre-filled syringes? It might be possible to give smaller doses more frequently but you need a vet to advise you on this.


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Critter Mom said:
Agree with Mary Ann; pancreatitis flares are painful. Managing the nausea and the pain is critical because the cat needs to eat.

Ask your vet about the bupe dose. Was it given to you in pre-filled syringes? It might be possible to give smaller doses more frequently but you need a vet to advise you on this.


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Good points Mogs. I have used injectable bupe for pancreatitis for one kitty and for dentals for both kitties. Even though the dose was set up according to the weight, my girlie kitty was much more sensitive to the effects.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
You can always removed the needle from a syringe and use the tube part to give water...it is really too small for longterm use but it is easier to use than a straw


ETA a small pair of pliers will remove the needle easily
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I donated his insulin syringes when he went into remission 16 months ago. But a friend is bringing me a medicine syringe. Oh and I checked his BG this morning and it was 61 which is typical for him. 60's-70's. Vet tech said Bupe can be given with or without good but she agreed that we need to get nausea under control with Cerenia first. She's checking with vet to see if I can get Ondansetron also. She said he needs the Metron because its antibiotic. Bupe can cause mania/ hallucinating because it's an opiate but he needs it for the pain. He's sitting under my rocking chair way in the corner hoping I can't reach him. Poor guy.
 
Critter Mom said:
Agree with Mary Ann; pancreatitis flares are painful. Managing the nausea and the pain is critical because the cat needs to eat.

Ask your vet about the bupe dose. Was it given to you in pre-filled syringes? It might be possible to give smaller doses more frequently but you need a vet to advise you on this.


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Yes pre filled syringes .15 mL. He weighs 15 lbs. I'll ask when she calls back.
❤️
 
Jamye and Fred said:
Vet tech said Bupe can be given with or without good but she agreed that we need to get nausea under control with Cerenia first.
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As Mogs just posted you need to control both the pain and the nausea at the same time. If Fred is in pain that can cause extra nausea just from the pain. Pancreatitis is a very painful condition and pain causes nausea. If you treat the nausea first but not the pain, then you are just going around in a vicious circle.
 
Going to vets to get Ondansetron. He's under the bed. My friend brought freeze dried chicken. I put some on a plate and slid it under the bed next to him. Not interested.
 
Jamye and Fred said:
Going to vets to get Ondansetron.
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Sending a bucket-load of prayers that it will help.

NB: it may take a little while for the ondansetron to kick in so be sure to ask the vets about giving BOTH Cerenia and ondansetron for at least a day or two. I suggest printing out the info from Marje to bring with you to double-check with the vets.

Here is the relevant text (so you don't have to faff around with thread links):

If he's over 10 lbs, you could give him up to 2 mg ondansetron every 8 hours. However, many of us have found that giving 4 mg cerenia every 24 hours plus 1-2 mg ondansetron (dep on cat weight) every 12 hours is an excellent combination. The two drugs hit nausea via different modalities and sothey work quite nicely together. In the old days, you could only give cerenia 3-5 consecutive days but that's no longer true. Also, cerenia acts as an anti-inflammatory. I have found some vets are in the know about using the two together and some are not.


Mogs
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