Doodles AMPS 405 PMPS 357 dosing advice plz

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Tina & Doodles

Tina & Doodles

Member Since 2016
AMPS before meal 405, post meal 492...gave 2u Lantus

Unable to get another read until 530pm PMPS before meal 357

Should I dose 2u Lantus again?


Thank you
 
I feel too new to give dosing advise, but bumping for more experienced people.

Do you have any mid cycle tests from other cycles?

Do you need help setting up a spread sheet to track your numbers so other members can help with dosing advise? I could help with that.

In your signature it would be helpful to add what other health conditions Doodles has and what type of meter you are using.
 
Osha said:
I feel too new to give dosing advise, but bumping for more experienced people.

Do you have any mid cycle tests from other cycles?

Do you need help setting up a spread sheet to track your numbers so other members can help with dosing advise? I could help with that.

In your signature it would be helpful to add what other health conditions Doodles has and what type of meter you are using.
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Someone has been kind enough to help me set up the info, but thank you for the offer.

I tried to get reads throughout the day but I kept getting an error. Finally got one.
 
For now I would stick with 2u until you continue to collect data. It's much easier to increase. Note it could take Doodles 6 cycles to clear the bounce from the low numbers yesterday so don't let the high numbers worry you too much at this point.
 
I agree with Karen. Stick with 2 units - Lantus does best with consistent dosing. And try to see if you can get a before bed test tonight.

Good job getting those AM and PM preshot tests. :)
 
I haven't been around much so I don't know Doodles health situation, but I would recommend testing for ketones.

You test them with keto diastix that you dip in the urine. If you get anything more than a trace you should call your vet. You can usually find them at your local pharmacy in the diabetic section.
 
I did a BG at 530pm and it was 357.
I fed him at 700pm.
I gave him 2u Lantus at 730pm.
I did another BG at 900pm and it was 172.
 
Ok. So the 2u advise was given based on the 357 which was stated as PMPS. PMPS is the preshot number right before you feed then give insulin (all within 5-10min). So currently we're not sure what the actual PMPS BG was. Since we're all in different time zones can you tell me how many hours ago 7:30pm was and also get another BG reading so we know where he is at the moment? Also, when was the last time he had any food?
 
BG357 + 3.5 BG 172

The 172 was an hour ago...get another?


Guess I don't follow the notation

BG 367 /+1.5 he ate /+o.5 2u Lantus /+1.5 BG 172??
 
So I do BG, feed & do insulin at same time?...within 5-10 minutes? It takes him 20 minutes to eat...he eats slow. I don't wait? Vet said to wait ~15-30 minutes after eating
 
I would get another test. The concern is we don't know how fast he's dropping because insulin was given 2 hours after the BG reading of 367. That 172 is a safe number but without knowing what his BG test was before feeding and giving insulin right after it's hard to tell how the cycle is going.

Tina & Doodles said:
So I do BG, feed & do insulin at same time?...within 5-10 minutes? It takes him 20 minutes to eat...he eats slow. I don't wait? Vet said to wait ~15-30 minutes after eating
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Lantus does not require you to wait the 15-30 minutes like fast acting insulin but many vets still have that thinking. My Doodles is a slow eater too but we've managed to get the BG test, feed & shoot within 10 minutes. It's OK to shoot while they are eating.
 
Looks like you're a little confused on when to test/feed/shoot

With Lantus, it's not so important that they eat a certain amount before shooting. Your vet sounds like he's still giving the advice we'd give if you were on one of the older types of insulins.

We don't want them to eat for 2 hours before shot times so that when we do the Pre-shot tests, we get a number that's not influenced by food. The way it should go is TEST to make sure they're high enough for insulin, FEED to make sure they're at least willing to eat and SHOOT.....all within 5-10 minutes.

If Doodles is a grazer, it's fine to let him take his time eating....as long as he's willing to eat, that's all that's important

Just take any remaining food up at +10 (10 hours after each shot) so that he doesn't have any food for the 2 hours right before test/shot times
 
So here's how the notation works
Right before you feed you get a test..pretend it's 250 and its morning..for explanation..
So it's noted as AMPS 250
Then you feed and then shoot,
Then you get the next test two hours after you gave the shot and that was say 172
You would record that as
AMPS 250, +2 172
Does that make more sense? Then you keep adding the tests
 
I just took it...74

So 5 hrs ago it was 357, an hr & half ago it was 172 and now it is 74

Is the right?

357 +3.5 172 now 74
 
I also test, then feed and give the shot while Gussie is eating. I used to wait until I learned Lantus does not require that. It is far easier because he's busy eating and doesn't notice the shot!
Tina & Doodles said:
I just took it...74

So 5 hrs ago it was 357, an hr & half ago it was 172 and now it is 74

Is the right?

357 +3.5 172 now 74
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Let me help another way, you've almost got it!:)
Give me the times of those numbers ok? Then I'll write it for you so you can see
 
Tina & Doodles said:
Update

530pm BG 357
700pm meal
730pm 2u Lantus
9pm BG 172
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You would write these test results like this: ( keep in mind there is one test missing because you did not test right before you gave the insulin so let's pretend for learning that you gave the shot right after that 357 test ok?)

PMPS 357, +3.5 172, + 5 74

Does that make sense?
 
Ok so that 74 is +3 hours from giving insulin. You'll want to feed him a little LC wet food and test again in 30 min. If he goes under 50 you'll need to give high carb (HC) food and or a little honey/ karo.
 
Gussie's mom said:
You would write these test results like this: ( keep in mind there is one test missing because you did not test right before you gave the insulin so let's pretend for learning that you gave the shot right after that 357 test ok?)

PMPS 357, +3.5 172, + 5 74

Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

What about the last one? The 74?
 
Tina & Doodles said:
I need to feed him & retest in 30 minutes? What if the number falls?
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Yes, just give a little wet food like a tsp or two. If it falls you'll need to feed him again so that's why we give a little at a time. You don't want to fill him up incase you need to feed him again. That was a big drop from 172 to 74 so by feeding we're trying to slow him down. Then you'll need to test again in 30 min. Don't worry about the format of the readings at the moment.
 
Continue the test/ feed cycle until BG levels comes up. What range are we looking for? Also in the morning when I test again...how will I know how much insulin to give him so we don't have to test/feed again like this?
 
Any time you give insulin we have to test mid cycle and possibly feed. I recommend you follow the SLGS guidelines and since he's dropped below 90 tonight you would reduce to 1.75u tomorrow. If his BG reading in the morning before feeding , right before you would give insulin is less than 150, don't shoot. Please read this sticky on Start Low Go Slow SLGS

Note: Random spot checks are often helpful to "fill in the blanks" on kitty's spreadsheet.
  • If nadirs are more than 150 mg/dl (8.3 mmol/L), increase the dose by 0.25 unit
  • If nadirs are between 90 (5 mmol/L) and 149 mg/dl (8.2 mmol/L), maintain the same dose
  • If nadirs are below 90 mg/dl (5mmol/L), decrease the dose by 0.25 unit
ETA: The above is just a small piece of the SLGS guidelines.
 
Tina & Doodles said:
Mid cycle is 6 hrs after feeding/insulin correct? Also called nadir...correct?
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Nadirs are different for every kitty which is why we test more in the beginning so you can figure out what Doodles typical nadir is. Some kitties nadir anywhere from +3 to +8. Once you start to see his patterns testing is less.
 
Just whole units. The first set I had were 1/2 on left & whole on right. Did not notice difference in syringes til now. Omg!

Can I use an old syringe that has 1/2 unit markings for am dose? Then go exchange these?
 
Tina & Doodles said:
Just whole units. The first set I had were 1/2 on left & whole on right. Did not notice difference in syringes til now. Omg!

Can I use an old syringe that has 1/2 unit markings for am dose? Then go exchange these?
Click to expand...
Not if it's been used. It's better to give a reduced dose of 1u than reuse a needle.
 
Hi Tina - you gave tonight's dose at 7:30 PM. What time did he get his AM dose?

Because Lantus is a depot insulin, and he's been getting 3 then 4 units up until yesterday, the depot is still much larger than the 2 units you gave today. I would still go to 1 unit tomorrow morning to help drain the depot, then get some more 1/2 unit marked syringes and go back to 1.75 units.
 
We normally reduce by .25 because that's actually a lot of insulin to a cat. By taking big increases or reductions, you can miss the "purrfect" dose. Because you don't have syringes with 1/2 unit markings, Karen is suggesting you do a BCS in the morning (Big Chicken Shot), which is a one time reduced dose, and shoot 1 unit, but if you think you can figure out 1.5 units on your syringe, that might be the better option.

ETA: Wendy and I posted at the same time. 1.0 unit is fine, too. It will also help to drain the depot so you're not seeing as much effect from that.
 
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