? Bubba's Cancer Update

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Debbie Do

Debbie Do

Member Since 2016
Bubba perplexes me. His appetite has been declining and now is barely eating enough to keep going, seems like. His average intake is 1 to 1.5 ounces. Sometimes I can coax him into eating a bit again after a couple of hours. He's not eating much of his formerly favorite foods. I've gone so far as to cook chicken breast for him, or feed canned chicken (chicken, salt, NO broth), which he nibbles. I even added a few drops of olive oil to food for a few extra calories, but now he has loose poo. Poor Bubba. :(

He's had no Prozinc for a couple of days. His BS stays mostly under 200.

I weighed him (step on scale with him, step on without him, omg, do I weigh that much?!, figure the difference) and his weight is down to 11.2 lb. He was a little over 14 pounds before he got sick - he's a larger cat and was not fat.

Three weeks ago, he was boarded while we travelled, and I expressed my concern to the vet over his dwindling appetite. I asked if he could get another injection of whatever they give cats for appetite stimulation. The vet said he ate some food while there, but "not as much as we'd like," so they didn't give him anything for appetite. He weighed 12+ pounds then. Accounting for difference in scales and my less-than-scientific weighing methods, it's still too much of a difference.

He had blood work done at that time, and it was perfect.

I'm calling the vet tomorrow to give them what-for, but wanted to hear any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who's surfing here through the night.

Or maybe I should take him to another vet? We're traveling again in a few weeks and in his current state, I'm afraid of what boarding would do to him!

Thanks!!
 
Hi Debbie, I don't have much experience with a cat not wanting to eat, but I know that many here use appetite stimulants. I'll tag @Carol & Murphy to give you some info on that and bump up your thread.
 
The pancreatitis, i'm wondering if is causing some nausea. Have they checked pancreas bloodwork numbers lately?

I'm not sure if being in the 100's is the best place for pancreas healing. Can someone clarify the healing zone? I thought it was somewhere between 60-120.

Either that or perhaps something else is going on with Bubba, and tests should be run.
 
Oh dear, Debbie - we have to get Bubba to eat I agree with Misterbeesmom
I see he had pancreatitis back in June - did he have any appetite problems before that? Have the vet examined him and he is healthy otherwise? when was his last dental? Does he seem like he is in pain?
A few years ago, Murphy stopped eating he developed hepatic lipidosis which happens if the cats don't take in enough calories - Bubba should probably see a vet for more blood work, including liver values. After Murphy recovered, he developed a food aversion to everything he was eating before he got sick - everything - so I had to find all new food. Are you trying to give him a variety of new, different food?
also, @Sharon14 swears by liver - there is a recipe somewhere on FDMB for a liver shake to give when kitties aren't eating. You have to get some calories into him. Others may not agree, but there is a low carb dry food called Young Again - it is very high in calories - 600 per cup. You can call the company and they will send free samples - you could try that until you can figure out what is going on and get him eating again
Murphy is on daily cerenia for vomiting and gets ondansteron and cyproheptadine for nausea and appetite stimulation, respectively. Your vet needs to take this very seriously - your thoughts of finding a different one may be just the thing to do.

Here are some tips on getting kitty to eat

Here is the recipe for the liver shake

Please keep us updated
 
Bubba had bloodwork done August 29 and there was no sign of pancreatitis. His labs are on his spreadsheet and everything looked very nice. His appetite had already started to taper before the last labs were done. He'd only dropped 4 ounces in August, so I guess they didn't see that as much of a concern.

He won't touch any canned food with liver, but I have either chicken liver or gizzards in the freezer, so I'll see if he'll take to that. He gets to choose from a variety of food - open a can, offer it, give it to the other cats if he doesn't want it, repeat. He's eating BFF tuna/pumpkin sweethearts the most consistently, but just not enough of it. I'll pick up the liver shake ingredients and give that a try.

He's not showing signs of jaundice, and otherwise acts ok.

Vet just returned my call and is going to call in a rx for an appetite stimulant. She talked about abdomen ultrasound, heart x-ray, and said the only thing they didn't check in August was thyroid. She said that it's up to me.

Here's what I wonder: I give him freeze-dried chicken as a treat after his ear-sticks. He will sit and eat chicken treats all afternoon if I'd feed them to him. He's just holding out for more treats. Are cat's that smart/dumb?

Sidebar: All my kitties have been transitioned to wet food. My little obese kitty, Pearl, is looking smaller. :)
 
Oh, as far as leading up to pancreatitis, he did stop eating, but I've slept too many times to remember what else was going on! He was given an appetite stimulant then, started eating and put on weight. I started the spreadsheet after that, and now keep some notes for future reference.
 
Sharon14 said:
Will he eat the food if you crush up the treats and sprinkle them on top?
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Bubba will lick them off the top of the food. I tried mixing treat chunks into the food, but he didn't fall for it.

I unearthed a can of Hill's a/d that I got from the vet a few months ago. He ate 50 grams this afternoon. The vet called in an rx to a pet food store so I could get some more. Not crazy about Hill's, but anything is better than nothing at this point. He did some obligatory lapping at a Hills/Friskies mix for dinner.
 
Good he's eating some! There's another high calorie prescription food, Iams Maximum Calorie Plus, that's only 9 carbs
 
Debbie Do said:
Vet just returned my call and is going to call in a rx for an appetite stimulant. She talked about abdomen ultrasound, heart x-ray, and said the only thing they didn't check in August was thyroid.
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iu
 
Debbie Do said:
Bubba will lick them off the top of the food.
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Debbie Do said:
He did some obligatory lapping at a Hills/Friskies mix for dinner.
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I wonder whether Bubba might have ongoing nausea issues; it's not an uncommon problem if chronic pancreatitis is present. Have a look at the nausea symptoms at the following link to see whether Bubba is exhibiting any of them:

Nausea symptoms and treatments

If he is showing signs of nausea, ondansetron can help enormously with this problem. My Saoirse would not be here without it (gets it twice a day). The page linked above describes nausea treatments and appetite stimulants. Cyproheptadine is typically gentler in action and shorter in duration than mirtazapine and it is therefore easier to tailor the level of appetite stimulation to Bubba's specific needs.

(Note: Mirtazapine carries the risk of inducing serotonin syndrome which can be life-threatening (antidote is cyproheptadine). Do your own research about potential interactions with any other meds or supplements Bubba may be receiving. Cyproheptadine is an antihistamine; be sure to get Bubba's blood pressure checked before treating with this med as this class of drugs can elevate BP.)


Mogs
.
 
I give my 1 cat zofran 2x a day to prevent nausea and if that doesn't make him eat he gets cyrpoheptadine or mirtz.
I was nervous about mirtz but it is a anti depressant as well as makes cats want to eat???
anyway it turns him into a love bug who eats-- however he now has a heart issue and I try to limit any complications so he gets cypro unless I have to go out of town and the sitter cannot pill him. He gets reglan sometimes too-
for reference he is 17 and has kidney issues which have caused nausea-since we started zofran he rarely vomits.
 
Baby food is on my list of things to try. I had a bitty skin & bones kitten show up on my doorstep a few years ago, and baby chicken saved her from death.

I left out some canned chicken for Bubba this morning, and he nibbled at it until it was gone. Bought some a/d last night, and today he doesn't want it. What a stinker!

Thing is, he shows no other symptoms other than not wanting to eat what I give him. No vomiting, howling, drooling, meatloafing, hanging over the water bowl. he just won't eat much. So, got the mirtazapine last night, and will try it for a few doses. I give him a tiny piece every 3 days.

How much ondansetron? One place online said .5 mg. Would that be once or twice daily? I'm willing to try it.

I don't mind feeding him canned chicken, if that's what it takes, but I'm concerned about the nutrients he's not getting. Is there a quality cat supplement that will fill in the blanks? Bubba is really easy going, and I can get a pill down him with little trouble.
 
Try mixing a small amount of cat food with the canned chicken, and if he eats that slowly increase the cat food. I don't know ondansetron, but I think @Carol & Murphy does.
 
I can totally relate my kitty Babu had an urinary infection and was diagnosed diabetic about a month and a half ago, and he lost 2 and a half pounds in just a few days, and he was 8.8 pounds to begin with and fairly slim. He had been like that all his life

I think that if he is not over weight right now you should let him eat as much as he wants (of the right food of course) and not worry so much about the schedule at least until his appetite is back to normal.

With Babu things got relly desperate and I started force feeding him the canned food (rather this than him loosing any more weight)

Also you could try putting some canned tuna with his food (the one canned in water not oil and if you can find the low sodium even better) but honestly I would use this as the last resuorce because they get hooked on the tuna and is hard to get them back to their regular food.

It's what did the trick with Babu though and better that than him not eating
 
I don't know really what to tell you about Bubba - most cats we see here that won't eat are ill - pain or nausea or pancreatitis - it kinda sounds like Bubba is just holding out for what he likes - is that your take on things?
I personally don't like mirtazipine because it has alot of side effects - serotonin syndrome being one. I use cyproheptadine 1/4 pill twice a day for an appetite stimulant. Some people have great success with mirtazipine. The dose of ondanseron is 1/4 of a pill (1 mgm) twice a day, but I've seen some give three times a day. I'm not sure about giving ondansteron with mirtazipine - the website ibdkitties.net has some information on these drugs - you could check there for interactions or Tanya's chronic renal failure website may as well. For a sick kitty at least, it is said to always treat the probable nausea before giving an appetite stimulant
 
Well, I think it's time for a trip to the vet. He has nibbled at food several times today, but never ate more than an ounce at a time. He tears into it like he's starving, then leaves after a couple of minutes, so I'm wondering if nausea could be an issue. I read. I've been giving him a couple of syringes of a/d (10-11 ml ea) at bedtime.

He still acts fine - although isn't quite as active. Today he was napping on his back, legs sprawled, and later was cuddling and grooming Sasha, his sister from another litter.

He actually had bs high enough to get a tiny bit of insulin this morning. This evening it's under 200 again.
 
Veronica Hernandez said:
I think that if he is not over weight right now you should let him eat as much as he wants (of the right food of course) and not worry so much about the schedule at least until his appetite is back to normal.

With Babu things got relly desperate and I started force feeding him the canned food (rather this than him loosing any more weight)

Also you could try putting some canned tuna with his food (the one canned in water not oil and if you can find the low sodium even better) but honestly I would use this as the last resuorce because they get hooked on the tuna and is hard to get them back to their regular food.
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I take him to eat several times a day. He might nibble a bit, then turn away. I wish he was a tuna cat, but he's never been a fish fan. I will offer him some canned salmon tomorrow - it has less junk in it than tuna, and if he doesn't eat that, I will. Eat what's left in the can... now what's in his bowl. :)
 
Carol & Murphy said:
I don't know really what to tell you about Bubba - most cats we see here that won't eat are ill - pain or nausea or pancreatitis - it kinda sounds like Bubba is just holding out for what he likes - is that your take on things?
I personally don't like mirtazipine because it has alot of side effects - serotonin syndrome being one. I use cyproheptadine 1/4 pill twice a day for an appetite stimulant. Some people have great success with mirtazipine. The dose of ondanseron is 1/4 of a pill (1 mgm) twice a day, but I've seen some give three times a day. I'm not sure about giving ondansteron with mirtazipine - the website ibdkitties.net has some information on these drugs - you could check there for interactions or Tanya's chronic renal failure website may as well. For a sick kitty at least, it is said to always treat the probable nausea before giving an appetite stimulant
Click to expand...

I'll look into getting some ondansetron. I'm really starting to wonder if he's nauseated, just because he seems to (sometimes) tear into food, then walk away quickly. I'll also take him in for a checkup. We have to travel in two weeks, and I need him better before then.
 
Bubba got his second piece of mertz Monday evening. Tuesday his appetite was slightly improved in the morning, but the day was disappointing on the whole. I got up this morning with the intention of calling the vet first thing, when lo & behold, Bubba ate a full 3 oz can of food and part of a second. :woot: At lunch, he licked the green-bean liquid off my plate (I know that wounds weird - he wasn't in my lap eating my lunch!) which had dairy-free faux butter on it... so... I mixed some DFFB into some pureed chicken, and he ate some of that. At Carol & Murphy's suggestion, I requested a sample of Young Again which arrived today. I offered Bubba half the sample this evening, and he ate like he hadn't seen food in a month! Scarfed it! Inhaled it! I only heard one pellet go crunch! I think the rest went down whole! The food is so fragrant that every cat in the house was begging for it. I will offer the second half tomorrow, and if he goes after it again, I will invest in a bag.

So - still taking it one day at a time, but right now I'm extremely encouraged. :joyful:
 
So glad Bubba likes the Young Again - it really is the best dry food he could eat (until you can get him to eat wet) be aware that if you wait until Friday to order it, you won't get it until next week so if it seems like a go tomorrow, I'd order some tomorrow - maybe you can get it on Friday or Saturday
 
Found out today Bubba has a malignant carcinoma. The vet sent his records to a specialty animal hospital and I'm calling tomorrow to schedule an appointment with the internist. If any one has a cat-cancer story with a happy ending, I'd sure like to hear it!
 
Oh Debbie I'm so sorry for the diagnosis. I have no info for you, only prayers and healing vibes for you and Bubba:bighug: Please keep us posted.
 
Sharon14 said:
Oh Debbie I'm so sorry for the diagnosis. I have no info for you, only prayers and healing vibes for you and Bubba:bighug: Please keep us posted.
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Thank you. Prayers are much appreciated! Bubba is the second of our cats to have cancer. The first, Bear, died two years ago. Makes me wonder...
 
Very sorry - hopefully the speciality hospital can sort it out and maybe it will not be so dire - I certainly hope that is the case
lots of :bighug:
 
Debbie so very sorry to hear about the cancer DX and I wish I had a story to tell you of hope but I really don't know anything about this type of cancerDX with the lesion not being on the liver whether it makes it more operable or not. I hope others can weigh in. Sending lots of vines to you and Bubba. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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Thanks for all the good thoughts. The internist said Bubba has pancreatic cancer that has spread to the spleen, liver, and lymph nodes. We could do a lot of things that would be expensive and make Bubba miserable, but the doc said it wouldn't change the outcome, maybe just prolong his life for a few more months. I can't see putting him through that. He has a pain patch, and he started taking steroids, and his appetite is starting to increase because of the meds. We will just make him comfortable and love him until it's time for him to move on.

Thanks for all the help and support everyone has given me during our short time here. This is an awesome community. :bighug:
 
:bighug:
Debbie Do said:
Thanks for all the good thoughts. The internist said Bubba has pancreatic cancer that has spread to the spleen, liver, and lymph nodes. We could do a lot of things that would be expensive and make Bubba miserable, but the doc said it wouldn't change the outcome, maybe just prolong his life for a few more months. I can't see putting him through that. He has a pain patch, and he started taking steroids, and his appetite is starting to increase because of the meds. We will just make him comfortable and love him until it's time for him to move on.

Thanks for all the help and support everyone has given me during our short time here. This is an awesome community. :bighug:
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Sending you tons of hugs and hope that your boy is as comfortable as possible while you love him up during this time.

:bighug: :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
So sorry Debbie Do! Prayers that your boy is comfortable for as long as possible so that you can have a little more time with him. FWIW, I think anyone here in your situation would do the same. I know that I would. Hope you both enjoy lots of time left.
 
Debbie, I am so sorry for your news. I just walked a similar road with my 13-year-old Chestnut. She was diagnosed with diabetes in March 2015, and we had controlled it with diet alone (Young Again zero carb because she refused to eat wet food) by August of 2015. She had finally gained weight and seemed happy for a short while then she slowly began eating less and less.

I took her in on September 20, and she had lost more than 3 pounds (her best weight was almost 16 pounds as a Norwegian Forest Cat and a big boned girl). She continued to eat less, although she showed interest in people food. We scheduled an ultrasound on October 17 and then went to surgery to diagnose the mass that day. I let her go during surgery so she wouldn't have to be in any more pain. She had pancreatic cancer that had metastasized to her small intestines, which were leaking into her abdomen.

It all happened much too fast, and I wonder about the link between diabetes and pancreatic cancer. I know that any future cats of mine will eat only wet food. Hugs.
 
Thank you so much for the kind words and prayers. It breaks my heart to hear of other fur babies and fur parents who have gone through this same thing.

Bubba is eating a little - we offer him a variety of kibble, as he seems to tire of flavors quickly. His sugar is up, but we can take care of that. He eats less than 30 grams of kibble a day, so we are still syringe feeding him a/d. His weight is up about half a pound. That's encouraging. He gets .1 cc of morphine twice a day, and mirtz every other day. He sleeps a lot, blaming the pain med for that, but when he's awake, he's alert and interactive. We decided that, before we let him go, to try Essiac. He's been taking it about a week now. It was recommended he do a 12 week course, so after that time, assuming he's still with us, we'll have him reevaluated and decide what to do then.

I couldn't do to any other cat what I do to Bubba - poke, prod, shove stuff down his throat... he's so good natured through it all. Still praying for a miracle! :)
 
Debbie I'm so sorry about your Bubba...
Our black Lion (he sure did have a lion's heart!) fought with liver cancer for god knows how long but showed no symptomes. He was diagnosed rather late (I insisted on second opinion after having felt a lump in his belly). He lived longer than the vet had initially predicted. He died in his sleep.
I feel that what kept him going is that we spent all the time that we could spare with him.
My mother in law, who loves animals and has a huge heart, has preformed regularly Reki on him (I have no idea if they work, but he sure did enjoy the attention and positive energy).
My heart goes to you.
 
Debbie, so sorry to hear about Bubba's diagnosis.
You are a wonderful mum, take care, sending lots of prayers.
Marlena&Rocky:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
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