? Dosing technique clarification please BCP PZI Sticky Re u40 vs u100

[Misterbeesmom]

sorry i'm showing up all over the place today.

the sticky from our site here discusses dosing for PZI insulins http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.109077/

I am ASSUMING all references to the insulin is in its U40 formula, right?

I ask because the waters have been muddied due to the fact that the BCP PZI insulin I am starting tonight comes in U100 formula as well (, though our vet ordred the U40 for us.)

I was looking at Dr Hodgkins sliding scale for PZI insulins here http://www.yourdiabeticcat.com/protocol.html
and it also does not specify u40 or u100 of the BCP (I realize the human recom version ProZinc is u40 only).

I just want to MAKE SURE we're talking about U40 formula here with our Sticky, as obviously 1u of one is vastly different from 1u of the other.

thanks and sorry for being so pesty.

 

[Sue and Oliver (GA)]

I don't think it matters. A unit is a unit whether it is given with a U40 syringe with U40 insulin or a U100 syringe with U100 insulin. So I think you can take the protocol as is.

I have to say, I do not agree with Dr. Hodgkins protocol, and as you can see, she is no longer associated with the YDC site. We are big on thinking that Every Cat is Different. That protocol says if the cat is here, shoot this. We want you to gather data and see how your cat reacts to doses. Based on his individual history of levels and doses, you determine what would work for him. They also think a cat cannot go hypo if on wet low carb food. I have seen it happen too many times to think that makes any sense.

You are NOT being pesky. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

 

[Misterbeesmom]

I don't think it matters. A unit is a unit whether it is given with a U40 syringe with U40 insulin or a U100 syringe with U100 insulin. So I think you can take the protocol as is.

I have to say, I do not agree with Dr. Hodgkins protocol, and as you can see, she is no longer associated with the YDC site. We are big on thinking that Every Cat is Different. That protocol says if the cat is here, shoot this. We want you to gather data and see how your cat reacts to doses. Based on his individual history of levels and doses, you determine what would work for him. They also think a cat cannot go hypo if on wet low carb food. I have seen it happen too many times to think that makes any sense.

You are NOT being pesky. The only dumb question is the one not asked.

what is YDC?

yes I understand a unit is a unit but the protocol recommends certain dosing and it would make a difference if it was talking about u100 pzi and I was using u40 pzi. right? i'm a little confused so maybe i'm wrong.

thanks!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

what is YDC?

Hi Jen, 'YDC' is Dr H's orginal forum site, 'Your Diabetic Cat'.

Since then there have been two other sites following the basic principles of Dr H: 'Diabetic Cat Care' and 'Diabetic Cat International'.

I think I am one of the few people here currently who did actually follow the Hodgkin's Protocol for a time (shortly after Bertie was diagnosed).

yes I understand a unit is a unit but the protocol recommends certain dosing and it would make a difference if it was talking about u100 pzi and I was using u40 pzi. right?

Nope... A unit is still a unit, regardless of the dilution.
In U40 insulin there are 40 units of insulin per ml. In U100 insulin there are 100 units of insulin per ml.
So, a unit of U40 insulin drawn into a U40 syringe will be the same as a unit of U100 insulin drawn into a U100 syringe.

Eliz

 

[Kris & Teasel]

what is YDC?

yes I understand a unit is a unit but the protocol recommends certain dosing and it would make a difference if it was talking about u100 pzi and I was using u40 pzi. right? i'm a little confused so maybe i'm wrong.

thanks!

U100 insulin is more concentrated than U40 insulin, in fact 2.5 times more concentrated. Or said another way, U40 insulin is more dilute than U100 insulin. In either type of formulation a unit is a unit, it just occupies a different volume of liquid. To get 1 unit of insulin if you have U40 insulin, you'd be using 2.5 times more liquid than if that 1 unit was in a U100 formulation. That's why there are different sized syringes for each formulation. If you look at the syringes, you'll see that the U40 syringe (red cap) is thicker in diameter and the marks are a bit further apart than on a U100 syringe (orange cap).

If your protocol says, for example, give 2.0 units of a U40 insulin, you'd draw up the liquid insulin to the 2nd mark on the red capped U40 syringe. If your protocol says give 2.0 units of a U100 insulin, you'd draw up the liquid insulin to the 2nd mark on an orange capped U100 syringe. It's possible to use U100 syringes with a U40 insulin but it requires careful attention to a dose conversion chart which is available (somewhere) on FDMB.

 

[Rachel]

Basically, I think we are saying if your insulin and syringes match, 1 unit is 1 unit. If you are using a u40 insulin with a u100 syringe, then 1 unit would not equal 1 unit. Make sense?

 

[BJM]

U-100 has 100 units per mL
U-40 has 40 units per mL, so it is more dilute than a U-100 insulin.
If you use a U-100 syringe with a U-40 insulin, the number on the syringe should be reduced to 40% of what it reads. Its easier to use the look up table.
mark * adjustment = U-40 dose
0.5 * 0.4 = 0.2 units
1.0 * 0.4 = 1.0 units
etc.