Dosing help for Piper

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frizzball55

frizzball55

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Hi Everyone,
I posted another thread on the main forum and they suggested I come over here. I just want to thank you all for reading and sharing your amazing advice all of these years. My 16 1/2 year old cat, Piper, has been diabetic for 6 1/2 years. She has been on 2u of Prozinc twice a day for the entire time. We started with one and stuck with two units. I never had the nerve to home test her until this week. Believe me I know now how dangerous that was for her, and I feel terrible. She threw up three times last week and stopped meowing, so I forced myself to do it! She was back to normal when I started testing Thursday night. I started a spreadsheet, and you can see she went dangerously low yesterday. She was acting completely normal, so now I feel like I have been keeping her that low for the last 6 years. I feel very strange skipping her shot tonight as I have only missed a couple ever. The 120 number tonight really scares me after yesterday. I will continue to update my spreadsheet whenever I can get a test in. She eats 1 can of FF Classic Beef in the morning and then again at night. Any suggestions or thoughts on how I should move forward would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for reading this, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Braden
 
Wow! Well first, welcome to our little forum! First off, we are a small but friendly group. If you ever have an emergency, please post here and on Health to be sure you get eyes on it.

Don't beat yourself up over not testing before now. Most vets don't suggest it or explain why it might be necessary, so how would you know? You can't change the past...the point is NOW you know how important it is and you are doing it. You can rest comfortably knowing that you are doing what you need to keep her safe.

Are you using a human meter or a pet meter?

Looking at her SS, skipping was definitely the right call! Plus now you can get some rest tonight knowing she's safe.

If she is over 200 in the morning, I think I'd reduce the dose. Maybe 1 unit? Looks like that dose may have worked well for you the other night. Will you be around to monitor tomorrow too?
 
Rachel said:
Wow! Well first, welcome to our little forum! First off, we are a small but friendly group. If you ever have an emergency, please post here and on Health to be sure you get eyes on it.

Don't beat yourself up over not testing before now. Most vets don't suggest it or explain why it might be necessary, so how would you know? You can't change the past...the point is NOW you know how important it is and you are doing it. You can rest comfortably knowing that you are doing what you need to keep her safe.

Are you using a human meter or a pet meter?

Looking at her SS, skipping was definitely the right call! Plus now you can get some rest tonight knowing she's safe.

If she is over 200 in the morning, I think I'd reduce the dose. Maybe 1 unit? Looks like that dose may have worked well for you the other night. Will you be around to monitor tomorrow too?
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Hi Rachel!
Thank you for responding so quickly! It really is nice to be able to "talk" with other diabetic furbaby lovers. Piper is a bit of a miracle in that she has survived my ignorance all these years. :)
I'm glad you think it was a good idea to skip. I feel like she has just been recently diagnosed all over again. All of this information is so overwhelming, and I want to to the right thing.
I got a human meter from Walmart. The cheap Relion brand. My brain is going crazy thinking it could be faulty. Ha! I am probably going to get another one tomorrow.
I will do 1u in the am if she is over 200. It is just so surprising that after all these years she would need less insulin. Is that even possible? I can monitor her closely for the first 3 hours after her shot. I'm having a party after that, and she will be impossible to test until it's over. She hates people and will be hiding the whole time. :( I work from home, so I am available all day most days.
Thank you again for your help. I truly appreciate it!
Braden
 
Nice Braden! Looking really good and skipping that 120 was a great choice! I'm glad you came over to this part of the forum! :bighug:
 
Surprising enough, yes. Cats can take years on the same dose and suddenly break through and start to drop. Not common, but has happened. And yes, don't blame yourself - congratulate yourself on starting testing! How could you possibly know that home testing was even possible if your vet doesn't. You can be his trial cat testing, show him how well it works and save lots of future patients of his. One thing I will say for your vet is that he didn't have you blindly raise the dose to high levels.

Great job skipping the dose. We generally tell new diabetics not to shoot under 200, but to stall. Wait 20 minutes without feeding and retest. You want to make sure the number is rising, not falling and nearer 200. The one unit at 243 was a little too high as it gave you an unshootable pmps. The ideal is two shootable preshots twice daily. If you read this before shooting today, I'd try a little less than one if she is 200 or just over. She could be high because she will have been 24 hours since a shot, but I'd stay in the 1-1.5 range even if she is high.

We put together a protocol for ProZinc. It is in my signature in blue.
 
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She definitely earned a reduction. Past is past. Can't worry about things you can't control. I think holding at 1 unit as long as the numbers are safe is a good suggestion. Keep in mind her numbers may be a bit inflated for a few days after the low hypo.

Well done for home testing! You are keeping her safe!
 
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Y'all are incredible! Thank you so much for your insight! I am just kicking myself for not joining sooner. I did stall last night and retest. It started at 124 and the second test was 120. This morning she was at 243. I just gave 1u. I am concerned now, because she is drinking a lot of water and peeing more than usual. I really don't want her to get a UTI. She is prone to them. I will definitely test her again here in a little bit.
Janet, definitely not as bad as I thought, but I did stick her 5 times today and made myself bleed. Ha!
 
I like the dose for this morning. Getting a few numbers today (especially in 5-7 hour range) will help fill out your picture.

PS. The ReliOn should work fine. It is the most popular meter on this forum - mostly because it is accurate and the strips are cheapest.
 
frizzball55 said:
Y'all are incredible! Thank you so much for your insight! I am just kicking myself for not joining sooner. I did stall last night and retest. It started at 124 and the second test was 120. This morning she was at 243. I just gave 1u. I am concerned now, because she is drinking a lot of water and peeing more than usual. I really don't want her to get a UTI. She is prone to them. I will definitely test her again here in a little bit.
Janet, definitely not as bad as I thought, but I did stick her 5 times today and made myself bleed. Ha!
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Haha. Put a cotton pad behind the ear so you aren't testing yourself.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I like the dose for this morning. Getting a few numbers today (especially in 5-7 hour range) will help fill out your picture.

PS. The ReliOn should work fine. It is the most popular meter on this forum - mostly because it is accurate and the strips are cheapest.
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Thank you! I will test at +2 and hopefully +5. I am having people over and she will be hiding, but I am going to make it work!
It just feels so weird lowering her dose when she was acting normal. And now she is drinking so much water. So frustrating. Thank you for the heads up on the meter!
 
Sharon14 said:
Sorry about the hunger and excessive pee, but 200 is good! She'll get there.
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Thank you Sharon! It looks like she hasn't peed since this morning. So that's good. I just tested at +6, and she has stayed at 198. I can't get to a computer to update the spread sheet, but I will tonight. Thank you for your help!
 
I just did her PMPS and she is up to 250. Do y'all think I should up her dosage, or just leave her at 1u for tonight? She has been VERY hungry and thirsty today. Thank you!
 
I'd hold the dose at one unit - your pmps is close to amps. We suggest holding a dose for three cycles before increasing. Unless the numbers are really high or low.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I'd hold the dose at one unit - your pmps is close to amps. We suggest holding a dose for three cycles before increasing. Unless the numbers are really high or low.
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Thank you so much!! Okay, will do! Is it good that the two numbers are close? Also, three cycles means her next shot too? I'm sorry for so many questions. Thank you for taking the time to answer me. :)
 
Yes, three cycles is a day, night and another day. Regulation is generally considered to be mid 200s at pre shot and low 100s or double digits at nadir (but above 50). That's the first goal. Then you work to lower the ranges.

If he is still in yellows and higher blues, you could raise the dose to 1.25 on a cycle you can monitor.

Someone answered my questions. I am just paying it forward.
 
Okay, great! I will stick with this plan. I am just floored that I have been overdosing my kitty for 6 years. So sad. Thank you again. Hopefully one day I will be able to do the same.
 
You will. We've all been where you are now. You'll be surprised at how fast all this makes sense!
 
Thank you Rachel! We are at 233 AMPS this morning. I am wanting to give her more insulin this morning, but I will wait. She is still peeing so much and very hungry!
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
You can shoot at 233, if you want. Maybe a little less than one unit if you won't be around to test.
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Thank you Sue! I did. I gave her 1u. I am just worried that it is not enough because of the excess peeing. Could that be from the shot I had to skip night before last? Cutting her dose in half has me freaking out a little.
 
She was at 228 PMPS. I am thinking I want to increase to 1.25 tomorrow. I don't want to tonight while I am asleep. Do y'all think it is a good plan?
 
Can you b around to monitor? I think it'd be fine IF you can...just to be sure all stays well. :)
 
Rachel said:
Can you b around to monitor? I think it'd be fine IF you can...just to be sure all stays well. :)
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Thank you Rachel! I had a surprising AMPS. It was 151. I don't want to skip again. Should I go less than 1u. I will be home today to monitor her. Thank you!!
 
Well, she was definitely high all day. I think am going to go back up to the full 1u tonight. I ordered an auto feeder today. Should be here tomorrow. Random question, does anyone know how long it takes for half a can of food to unfreeze. More specifically what time should I put it in the feeder? Thank you in advance!
 
I think one unit on your 236 is fine. I am thinking about your amps. I am reluctant to advise people to shoot under 180. Sometimes people do, but usually with only a few drops on a number like 150. I know you didn't give a big drop after shooting the 150, but I think it could have been a flat cycle after a low one. I wouldn't shoot more than 0.75 on a number that low. But, as always she is your cat and you hold the syringe.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
I think one unit on your 236 is fine. I am thinking about your amps. I am reluctant to advise people to shoot under 180. Sometimes people do, but usually with only a few drops on a number like 150. I know you didn't give a big drop after shooting the 150, but I think it could have been a flat cycle after a low one. I wouldn't shoot more than 0.75 on a number that low. But, as always she is your cat and you hold the syringe.
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Oh wow! Okay, next time I won't shoot that low. Thank you for working this out with me. What is a flat cycle? I am just worried about the constant hunger and peeing. It's just so strange to have her doing that all over again. Could I have been just been taking her super low all these years and destroying her body?
 
A flat cycle is when the numbers are pretty much in the same range for the cycle, with no highs or lows. Sometimes we see it when there was a low cycle or number the cycle before.

No, I wouldn't worry about what came before. You are doing a great job now!mIf you are worried about peeing more than she used to, you might get her checked out with the vet, just to make sure there isn't an infection - especially if she is prone to UTIs.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
A flat cycle is when the numbers are pretty much in the same range for the cycle, with no highs or lows. Sometimes we see it when there was a low cycle or number the cycle before.

No, I wouldn't worry about what came before. You are doing a great job now!mIf you are worried about peeing more than she used to, you might get her checked out with the vet, just to make sure there isn't an infection - especially if she is prone to UTIs.
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Okay, makes sense! Thank you! Ya, she is do forblood work anyway. I was going to take her up there in a couple of weeks after we had some consistent numbers. She hates it there. Always makes a vet tech bleed. :(
 
Piper looked pretty good and even today. Thinking about keeping her at the 1u tonight. Do y'all think it is a good plan?
 
Ya, I definitely can! +2, or +3? I will be up for a while. Her auto feeder was supposed to be here today, but it never arrived. Hopefully tomorrow. As always, thank you for your insight!
 
Hi there! Congrats on home testing. You will see how helpful it is for regulating Piper. So very glad that you started to post to get some feedback. :cat:
 
yu67
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi there! Congrats on home testing. You will see how helpful it is for regulating Piper. So very glad that you started to post to get some feedback. :cat:
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Hi Bobbie and Bubba! Thank you so much! This has definitely been a huge learning curve in the last week! I feel like an idiot for not doing it sooner. It's hard, but we are working it out. Thank you for your words of encouragement!
 
frizzball55 said:
yu67

Hi Bobbie and Bubba! Thank you so much! This has definitely been a huge learning curve in the last week! I feel like an idiot for not doing it sooner. It's hard, but we are working it out. Thank you for your words of encouragement!
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Don't beat yourself up. You are testing now and he will help you. :cat:
 
frizzball55 said:
That's awesome! Thank you Sharon. I'll order some today. Should I give it everyday?
Piper is at 182 this morning. I am going to keep her at the 1u, and monitor this afternoon.
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I give Colin 1/8 tsp /day. I have no real method, I give it everyday when I suspect he may be starting a UTI, or his numbers spike a little more than normal, but I stop after a couple weeks. I think it's fine to give it everyday though.
 
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