Restart at 1 unit down from 7!

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StephG

StephG

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Started a new thread. Restarted at 1 unit at 5 pm on 9/9/16. Increased to 1.25 9/10/16 am. Still high. Might be bounce from hypo incident on 9/8/16 pm. All on SS. Giving 1.5 units tonight ( and for 3 cycles) at 5-5:30 and will get +2,4,6, and 8 to make sure he's not over the bounce and plummeting. He's eating more, I'm assuming from the high numbers. Doesn't seem to be drinking or peeing as much. Getting ketone strips this evening. Hopefully I'll get a test in tonight.
 
I updated my signature to include his other chronic health problem that he's medicated for regularly. Can't believe i forgot it. I skipped a few nights bc of the insulin and hypo incident. He's starting it again tonight.
 
Just read on Rachel's thread that Satan has had a steroid shot. Was that recently? I ask because steroids can cause diabetes and when the shot wears off, they sometimes come down quickly. Wether he has or not, you should steer clear of any steroid use in the future unless absolutely necessary.
 
Sharon14 said:
Just read on Rachel's thread that Satan has had a steroid shot. Was that recently? I ask because steroids can cause diabetes and when the shot wears off, they sometimes come down quickly. Wether he has or not, you should steer clear of any steroid use in the future unless absolutely necessary.
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OMG!!! I think you've nailed it!!!! I feel awful! He was seen May 2, 2016 and weighed 13.5 pounds. He got the depo shot that day. He went back August 18, 2016 and was 10.3 pounds. September 7, 2016 and weighed 9.3 pounds. I think that last shot of depo pushed him into diabetes! His diet was not the best- always was around 13-15 pounds. He was already on 4Health grain free indoor dry. I know now how awful dry food is for them. Still trying to wean Kitty-cow off it. He has such bad ears. He's treated for an infection and it comes right back. He has cauliflower ear in both ears from hematomas. He has two surgeries on his right ear in 2007. So usually when he went in for an ear infection it was to the point that he needed something to calm the itching and swelling on top of the otomax. Poor baby. His bg went up +2 from dinner time. Went back down a bit at +4 and I suspect it will drop more at +6 but I do NOT like his numbers. He's begging for food. Actually sleeping on the table by his food dish. (Yes I do let my kitties on the table. I just clean it before us servants eat at the table.) I'm still kinda in shock.
 
And I must add... the vet didn't point this out to me. Of course! He seems to be the worst vet I've ever had for my babies.
 
Great catch, Sharon. So now you know, Steph, you can figure that as the steroid leaves his body, his levels may drop. And you can research what will work better.
 
Ok. So I just checked his +6 and he's still above 400. This is the 3rd cycle of insulin. 1, 1.25, then 1.5. Technically 48 hours since his hypo. Can he still get ketones if he gets insulin and it's not enough? I'm having a hard time with my patience. I do NOT want to hypo him again but I do not want to see 400+ all day either. He's skin and bones as it is... I'm feeling extra guilty that I did this to him and didn't get him to the vet sooner. Although sooner probably would have killed him since the vet was so so wrong on his dosage. I'm fighting myself over what to do. Nothing can be done until 5am but I won't be able to monitor him as closely as I can after the 5pm shot so I don't want to over do it in the AM, or ever. AGH I guess I just had to vent. Vet had my hopes up in the beginning. Basically saying once he was on the insulin his numbers would be in range and he would gain weight and be his normal self again. He'd be dead if I followed him blindly. I need to stop obsessing. I have the strips but he hasn't been to the potty since I got back around 8:45pm (3 hours ago). I am going to try to stay up and get the +8 reading. If I feel I can't make it- I'll take the +7.
 
I don't plan on changing the dose in the morning but if he's over 500 I might. My mind is like a tornado. I might have a clearer mind in the morning.
 
Just checked his +8 and he's at 445. He finally used the box but I didn't catch him and didn't get a sample. :banghead: He climbed on my lap and to the back of my chair leaving a trail of dirty and wet litter. GAG he STINKS. I don't think it smells like nail polish remover but it doesn't smell normal. My hubby thinks it smells like his cat food. I think it's more sour smelling but that could be a mixture of the urine and freshstep. I'm emotionally and mentally exhausted. I think I'd feel better if I could get a ketone strip done. I'm paranoid because he's already burnt up all his fat and some of his muscle between May and August visits. He puked a little around +7.5. Was phlemy and looked like it had some bits of his food in there. I think he must have found some crunchy pieces he drops while he's eating. Crumbs. Is it normal to be this paranoid and insanely worried?!? I feel like I'm going to lose my mind. The more research I do the less faith I have. :arghh::(
 
Ahh Look at me ranting like a lunatic on here! Did I let the crazy out too soon?!:oops:o_O Just did AMPS an hour early along with shot- he was 460 at 4am. FOUGHT the urge to up the dose and only gave him 1.5 units. I have to be out of here in a minute so I had to give him the juice early and I figured it was ok since he is so high. I will check back in with possibly +3 and a +6. Really hoping for below 400!!! Wishing everyone a great day and good numbers!
 
About the steroid shots, that's great news!!! If they wear off it indeed will mean that the dose needs to be reduced. And it can well mean that your Satan can get of insulin! My kitty Baco also had steroid shots and that pushed her into getting diabetes (in combination with being overweight) I gave insulin for 2 months almost and now she's off insulin for about 4 months!
 
Steph, deep breath! We were all very nervous and worried at first, still are some days, but it will get better. Keep trying on the ketone test and if you're really worried, there is a ketone meter that checks using a drop of blood. The strips are expensive, but if it would give you piece of mind it might be worth considering.
I know you said Satan has arthritis, but could he have neuropathy too? If so, some Methyl B12, Zobaline, will help.
 
We all understand how scary and nerve wracking this is, Steph. Especially when no one else is around to rant to (yes, ranting here is fine.). I am sure it will help when you can get a ketone test. Did you say you had some kind of gravel from the vet? Can you put that in the litter box before you feed him? They tend to use the litter box after eating so that might be a good time to try for a test. And yes, as Sharon says, the PrecisionXtra (and maybe some others - @Bobbie And Bubba uses one) can get you a ketone reading with the meter.

You hold the syringe. You can increase if you want. I would guess he does need more insulin - we just don't know how much more and we don't want to overdose him again. So our plan - keeping in mind we are advising about someone else's cat and we want first to do no harm- tends to be conservative. With a change to low carb, new to insulin and after a hypo, we really tend to be conservative.

If he is still in the 400s today, on the next cycle you can monitor, you could increase (by 0.5 if you feel comfortable doing that). If you get a clean ketone test, you might feel more comfortable taking it a little slower with the increase. And wait the 3 cycles.

Ketones USUALLY develop when a cat isn't eating, has an infection and isn't getting enough insulin. But cats have had ketones without all those symptoms. They don't tend to read the manuals......
 
Hi Steph, I use the Abbott Precision Xtra and it makes it so much easier to test the blood than trying to get a urine sample to use the ketone strips. I use the same sample of blood when testing the BG and have both meters ready with the strips. If you decide to order one I can tell you the best place for the strips, they are pricey.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Steph, I use the Abbott Precision Xtra and it makes it so much easier to test the blood than trying to get a urine sample to use the ketone strips. I use the same sample of blood when testing the BG and have both meters ready with the strips. If you decide to order one I can tell you the best place for the strips, they are pricey.
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I would appreciate the info. I don't think I'll be able to get a urine sample. He won't use the beads. Caught him nibbling on a piece of dog food 5 minutes before pmps. Bad boy. PMPS 495. Fed whole 5.5oz can. Upping insulin to 1.75 (eyeballed). Will get +4 or +4.5. Hubby will try to get +5 or +6 depending on +4 number. I must thank you all for the info- I honestly trust you all more than my vet. Only thing to get to your level of knowledge is EXPERIENCE and I can't imagine vets have the ability to stay home with their kitties like some of us do. I also must thank you for dealing with my craziness. I get so overwhelmed and I'm a doomsday thinker.
 
StephG said:
I would appreciate the info. I don't think I'll be able to get a urine sample. He won't use the beads. Caught him nibbling on a piece of dog food 5 minutes before pmps. Bad boy. PMPS 495. Fed whole 5.5oz can. Upping insulin to 1.75 (eyeballed). Will get +4 or +4.5. Hubby will try to get +5 or +6 depending on +4 number. I must thank you all for the info- I honestly trust you all more than my vet. Only thing to get to your level of knowledge is EXPERIENCE and I can't imagine vets have the ability to stay home with their kitties like some of us do. I also must thank you for dealing with my craziness. I get so overwhelmed and I'm a doomsday thinker.
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You can get the Abbott Precision Ketone meter on Amazon. The cheapest place I found for the strips was the Universal Pharmacy in Canada.
1 866-456-2456. or you can go to their website. I just order 40 of them for 90 dollars plus 7 dollars for shipping. It takes about 10 days to receive them.

Just wondering, since he got into the dog kibble and his PMPS was high, why did you feed him the whole 5.5 can of food? Not criticizing, just wondering.

I am glad you don't mind we refer to your baby as Chuck ;)
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
You can get the Abbott Precision Ketone meter on Amazon. The cheapest place I found for the strips was the Universal Pharmacy in Canada.
1 866-456-2456. or you can go to their website. I just order 40 of them for 90 dollars plus 7 dollars for shipping. It takes about 10 days to receive them.

Just wondering, since he got into the dog kibble and his PMPS was high, why did you feed him the whole 5.5 can of food? Not criticizing, just wondering.

I am glad you don't mind we refer to your baby as Chuck ;)
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I will look into the meter. He only had a bite off one piece of kibble and it wasn't into his system yet. I didn't think he would eat the whole can. I usually dump the whole can then weigh what he doesn't eat but this time he ate it all! It is my fault for thinking he would leave some behind every time. I'm going to start feeding him 3-3.5 oz per feeding. That might drop the levels a tiny bit. Just did his +3 and it's 469 down from 495. I can take some criticizing! Haha can't be any worse than what I say to myself. My hubsand calls him Chuck so my brain autoresponds to it.
 
So his PMPS is 521! I think I'm going to increase the insulin to 2 units. His numbers are getting higher by the day and I'm worried. I is it possible that he's not producing ANY insulin at all? Please check his SS if you have a minute and let me know if you think it would be ok to increase from 1.75 to 2 units? He hasn't had access to any other food. I picked up the dog food after catching him with a piece yesterday. would like to shoot around 445pm.
 
Hi Steph! And a big hug :bighug: for Satan!

I know how you feel I was the same! Panic set in and I was in such a state! I did cope amongst a massive break down (one morning I cried till I was sick!) like you I was in internal combat between my gut instinct - what the vet was telling me and the advice on here!

It only took one shot on the vets recommendation to see that he was wrong and that if I hadn't listened to the advice on here my gorgeous kitty would be hospitalised or likely worse as I'd have given the shot then gone to bed while Tempest hypoed.

They held my hand, talked me through it and taught me how to do everything I needed to for my peace of mind and to keep kitty safe! :)

I wish I could bottle some of the confidence I have now and post it to you. But I do know in time you will be a pro at everything, Satan will be fine, you will be fine and everything will be ok. :cat:
 
It is certainly possible that we don't have a high enough dose. And aren't increasing fast enough. You hold the syringe. You decide.

Our primary goal is not to hurt someone else's cat so we tend to be conservative, especially when raising the dose. You are careful about checking his levels and monitoring him. We could have said halve the dose in the beginning, down to 3 units. That might have been the better choice. But we were worried about his just starting wet food and recovering from a hypo.

I don't like his high numbers. If you can monitor carefully, increase.
 
TempestsMum said:
Hi Steph! And a big hug :bighug: for Satan!

I know how you feel I was the same! Panic set in and I was in such a state! I did cope amongst a massive break down (one morning I cried till I was sick!) like you I was in internal combat between my gut instinct - what the vet was telling me and the advice on here!

It only took one shot on the vets recommendation to see that he was wrong and that if I hadn't listened to the advice on here my gorgeous kitty would be hospitalised or likely worse as I'd have given the shot then gone to bed while Tempest hypoed.

They held my hand, talked me through it and taught me how to do everything I needed to for my peace of mind and to keep kitty safe! :)

I wish I could bottle some of the confidence I have now and post it to you. But I do know in time you will be a pro at everything, Satan will be fine, you will be fine and everything will be ok. :cat:
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I just watched your OTJ party video and it made me cry! I long for the days where I'm playing with him again. I'm a mess of emotions lately. I hate the month of September to begin with and now I'm going through all this. I've lost too many people in September and it's my mom's birthday month... Lost her 5/31/15 at the age of 52. (I'll never be the same again but that's a whole different story) If it weren't for this forum, he'd be dead. Vet now wants him on 3 units but I'm way past done listening to him and have found another vet who has been taking care of a friends dog for 3 years on insulin. So I'm going to set up care with her as soon as I can. My friend described her as a tattooed bada*$. lol So sounds like she's my type of people! I'm not tattooed but being a corrections officer made my rough edges a bit more rough! I'm a foul mouthed, passionate, loyal, take no crap from anyone type person but I do have VERY thick skin! :cool: But when it comes to my babies- fur babies only- I am a big softy to them and will do anything for them. I'm going to shoot right after this. I'm going with 2 units. I sense in my gut that it will be ok. I'll be here to monitor.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
It is certainly possible that we don't have a high enough dose. And aren't increasing fast enough. You hold the syringe. You decide.

Our primary goal is not to hurt someone else's cat so we tend to be conservative, especially when raising the dose. You are careful about checking his levels and monitoring him. We could have said halve the dose in the beginning, down to 3 units. That might have been the better choice. But we were worried about his just starting wet food and recovering from a hypo.

I don't like his high numbers. If you can monitor carefully, increase.
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I completely understand. I guess I wasn't clear in the beginning- he just started the low carb wet food on 8/18/16. He's been on friskies pate since about April 2016 but had dry food throughout the day. He had about a can a day then. Only nibbled on the dry here and there. He hasn't had a full serving of dry since 8/18 but has gotten a few pieces here and there when I forgot or turned my back on the dish when my other cat is eating. I now stand there with the cover in my had while Kitty eats and as soon as he stops I cover it. I am trying my best to get him on the 12hr schedule but he's a strong willed Brat! But it's slowly getting there.
I have much more trust in you than I do that vet! If you would have come at me with 3+ I would have probably bailed from here too! I completely understand going slow... I just see the other symptoms coming back- drinking excessively and puddles in the box. I'm going to switch over to regular, non-scoopable, litter because I can't afford to keep throwing out all the scoopable litter every 3 days. I will try to get a "look how skinny" he is picture. He's skin and bones. Breaks my heart.
 
StephG said:
I just watched your OTJ party video and it made me cry! I long for the days where I'm playing with him again. I'm a mess of emotions lately. I hate the month of September to begin with and now I'm going through all this. I've lost too many people in September and it's my mom's birthday month... Lost her 5/31/15 at the age of 52. (I'll never be the same again but that's a whole different story) If it weren't for this forum, he'd be dead. Vet now wants him on 3 units but I'm way past done listening to him and have found another vet who has been taking care of a friends dog for 3 years on insulin. So I'm going to set up care with her as soon as I can. My friend described her as a tattooed bada*$. lol So sounds like she's my type of people! I'm not tattooed but being a corrections officer made my rough edges a bit more rough! I'm a foul mouthed, passionate, loyal, take no crap from anyone type person but I do have VERY thick skin! :cool: But when it comes to my babies- fur babies only- I am a big softy to them and will do anything for them. I'm going to shoot right after this. I'm going with 2 units. I sense in my gut that it will be ok. I'll be here to monitor.
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I'm sorry it made you cry! I am celebrating her otj. but mostly, I hope that it gives hope to people going through all this, to let them see there is light at the end of the tunnel. That things get better - given time and patience.

I'm also not a weepy person but as you say - my fur babies are my babies and I will protect them and look after them like they were my real children. I do get upset when they aren't well, I lost my oldest kitty earlier this year, my dog has MVD - just went through a major op - even the vets weren't sure she would survive 9 days ago and my horse managed to get bitten on the eyelid requiring an injection into his vein and a weeks worth of treatment all in the last month. I need to marry a vet at this rate ;)

So I do get that place you are coming from..

Keeping everything crossed for you and sending hugs! :bighug:
 
:bighug::bighug::bighug: we've all been there, I cried at the vet because despite doing everything I had been told I still had a skinny miserable little cat with a big liver sticking out, it was a big lump you could see, and you could feel all her bones, it wasn't until I got some answers about her other health issues and a handle on what was going on that I started to see an improvement. Her liver has shrunk, she regained the weight, and she is now back to being a happy healthy loving little cat. You would have no idea now she is diabetic just by looking at her. It will happen for you and Satan as well but it does take a little time. Regulation is not just about the numbers but the clinical signs as well, I was spending a fortune on kitty litter because it would be swilling and needed changing twice a day - exhausting! A slow increase will start to show results.

I feed Cappuccino in a separate room and only let her out once I have lifted the other cats food - if they leave any for later it gets put in the microwave aka the 'cat safe' as she hasn't managed to work out how get into that, all the other food is in a locked cupboard, unregulated cats always find the contraband! I am very strict about the feeding regime even when she gives me that accusing look, but now her numbers are better she is less demanding.

I found weekly weights useful as it is heartening to see the weight start to go back on even when you are not noticing any other changes but they will come. I suddenly noticed I was buying a lot less kitty litter which offset the cost of her special food - result!
 
They were happy tears for you!! I am keeping hope alive that he can go into remission since I believe it was steroid induced. Then again I'm realistic about the fact that he went 6 weeks ish without seeing a vet. I thought he was losing weight from being on wet food. I was blind to the signs. I like the reduction in numbers tonight. I feel like his AMPS might not be so high but we shall see. No food available for him to snack on so hopefully he won't spike. Does anyone know if grass has carbs? lol He got some outside time tonight- rare this last 2 weeks. He actually wanted to go outside and watch the bugs. He ate a piece or two of grass before I shoo'd him inside. He's still chasing me around the house and got a lick of mayo off the knife at dinner time. Barely got any of it since I was taking stuff off the table at the time and he snuck up beside me and licked it as I was turning away. He's not allowed up there when we eat. He was being a bad boy.
 
IMG_20160912_172141.jpg He's so skinny. Don't mind the mess on my table. I don't clean it til right before dinner!
 
Bless him! You will really start to notice a difference and he will gain it back when he's more stable. Tempest did lose a bit of weight but has gone back to normal now.

Just take one day at a time. :) I know it can be frustrating wanting everything perfect right away, finding the right dose does take time and does require lots of data. So be patient, once you find the correct dose for him everything will start to improve.
 
I wish you could have seen me at the vet! I sobbed my heart out. Then I cried the first time I gave her a shot and the first time I home tested her. But over time, I got better. I had the occasional breakdown, but mostly, I was happy.

I KNOW it's hard. But I'll tell you that finding a "family" here helped me so much. People here understood what I felt and talked me through it.

You will make it. We will help! I'm with Sue...I think an increase is in order.
 
I did increase to 2 units. I was happier to see the numbers going down. Didn't get above 450 last night after PM shot. Didn't get as many readings as I wanted but AMPS was 439! Under 500 so that's an improvement! I didn't get his AMPS before he ate- hubby "couldn't" get a sample. I got it right after he ate within ten minutes. Gave him the full 2 units and will test at +4-6 if I can make it home in time. I really want to see the numbers so I'm going to try my best. I am going to test past +6 too if I can. He stayed pretty stable after his shot last night- I was expecting closer to 500 this morning and was happy to see it wasn't! I can see 2 units is working better already. Just did +1 he's 523! Guess that food hits him quick! I was thinking about switching food to a FF or something but at this point he's eating the 9lives just fine and it has lower phosphorous levels too which is better for my chronic UTI/crystals boy- Kitty.
1223150043c.jpg 0116162326b.jpgA couple "fat" pictures of Chuck from January 2016, before the weight loss.
10352951_849796519524_1056981697540662202_n.jpg 10671396_851687964054_8298266927517751714_n.jpg A pic of all 3 of my babies from 2ish years ago and a close up of Kitty.
11040181_925804379164_9076983051892076728_n.jpg And my beautiful girl and the boy's BIG sister April.
 
What a lovely family you have! Yes, the +1 is likely a food rise. Good to know that food impacts him so quickly. Now, you know that feeding him and testing later will give you an artificially inflated number - not a good one to base a dose on.

If both will eat the 9 lives and they are on the lower end of the carbs, I'd stick with what he will eat.

What have you decided to do about getting a ketone test?
 
I can't afford the meter. Tried to find a good price but nothing I can afford. I plan on stalking him after dinner tonight to get a test.
I am going to keep him on 9 lives. Kitty still eats friskies pate and a little dry through the day, like 1/8-1/4 cup. Goal is to have him off dry and on a 12 hr or 6hr schedule by end of September. He's so picky I have to go slow. Tested him on a whim once and he was 55. Not diabetic, gets tested a lot because he's fat. But I gave him some extra food then because I was worried he wasn't eating enough. That is when I tried holding out his food and forcing the 12 hr feeding.
 
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UGH I'm so mad at myself. I shot in the flank because of flea medicine. He pulled away before the plunger was all the way down. So I missed a little. I'm sure his numbers will be up. :banghead: :arghh: I decided to feed him 4 oz per feeding because the 9Lives tuna & egg bits is 139 kcal per 5.5oz can which works out to about 25.27 per ounce. So 11 pound target is 218.5 and that is about 8.5 oz a day. I'd rather see him around 12-13 pounds but I'll be happy to see him above 10!
 
He's 588 +2.5! I'm worried. Is there anything I can do to help him lower his numbers? I'm starting to wonder if ANY of the insulin got in him?
 
It is not wise to shoot any other insulin after a suspected fur shot. High numbers for a cycle are a disappointment, but it's only one cycle.
 
I just tested again, +3 588 still. Hopefully it will start going down a little if I got any in there. I can shoot an hour early in the morning if they're still high, right?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
What a lovely family you have! Yes, the +1 is likely a food rise. Good to know that food impacts him so quickly. Now, you know that feeding him and testing later will give you an artificially inflated number - not a good one to base a dose on.

If both will eat the 9 lives and they are on the lower end of the carbs, I'd stick with what he will eat.

What have you decided to do about getting a ketone test?
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I FINALLY got a strip done! I lucky, caught him in the box and he was facing the back! Woohoo! Hiney was in perfect position! I swiped the strip under his butt til I saw it was wet. It got a bit of litter on the back but not on the little test square. IT WAS NEGATIVE! :cat::) My anxiety has gone down just a bit!! Will be checking his bg again in about 30 minutes (+4) to see if it's going down at all.
 
I can shoot again 12hrs after. But I won't be able to get any numbers til +9. I will see how the morning goes. Sometimes it's so hectic I'm lucky to remember deodorant! Haha
 
I think I got his shot the right way this morning and he's still above 400. I'm going to try the side of his chest tonight to see if he absorbs it better? I also wonder if I should increase his dose to 2.5 units tonight? Yesterday PM shot was a bust- but even the ones before that are still high numbers and those 2 unit shots were not fur shots. I can monitor tonight but won't be able to tomorrow morning after am shot until +7 tomorrow too. Friday I won't be able to monitor at all. I'm gone from 6:45am until 5pm. :(
 
Again, your call. I'd give it the three cycles , especially as one was a fur shot. But you have the syringe, he's your cat, you can monitor and you know how to raise numbers if you have an issue.
 
This morning was 4th cycle including fur shot. I'm going to try 2.5 units tonight, check levels and see how he responds. If it gets too close to low, which based on his SS I doubt it will happen, I'll go back to 2 or 2.25 units the morning.
 
I'm starting to wonder what is going on with his sugars... We finally have 2 pinks in a row but it went up from +4 to +5 which seems strange to me but maybe because I don't usually do hourly checks. I'm hoping AMPS will be low 400's but I doubt it. I'm going to get +6 then I have to go to bed. I will see if my hubby can get +8.5 just to make sure he isn't dipping later than usual.
 
Meters have a +/- variance of 20% so those two numbers are in the same range. It's nice to see some pinks. Looks like your choice to increase a little faster is paying off.
 
I'm very pleased with the few numbers I got today. I'm going to give him 2.5 again and monitor. +1 (to see if there's a trend on how the food increases it) and +4 and +6.
 
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