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FatMax'sMom

FatMax'sMom

Member Since 2016
Hello, I'm Heather and my then 18 pound cat Max was diagnosed the end of May. He started on ProZinc at 1 unit and is now up to 4.5. He now weighs 15 pounds but is not yet regulated. His numbers are still quite high (300-600) and the vet wants to try Lantis if the ProZinc isn't helping..this scares me as there isn't someone home enough during the day. I'm hoping to read about how I can better help him here..before making that switch. Thanks for listening! 20160527_195202.jpg
 
Hello and welcome Heather and Max, and what a lovely boy he is! :)

It would be super helpful for the experienced folks to have some more information to help you.

If you could add it to your signature for them to see that would be great. Also setting up a spreadsheet so they can see his bg levels and how much insulin he gets at every shot. If you look at mine you can see the type of info that's useful like what you are feeding and so forth. There is a forum for prozinc so ask away there. That's where I am so hope to see you there. :)
 
Welcome! Once you get Max's info (as mentioned by Tempest's Mum) and your spreadsheet up there a great coaches on the ProZinc forum to help you with this. There are information "Stickies" on the main page of the Forum to tell you what to do in setting up. Don't give up hope - you can get Max to a better place.
 
TempestsMum said:
Hello and welcome Heather and Max, and what a lovely boy he is! :)

It would be super helpful for the experienced folks to have some more information to help you.

If you could add it to your signature for them to see that would be great. Also setting up a spreadsheet so they can see his bg levels and how much insulin he gets at every shot. If you look at mine you can see the type of info that's useful like what you are feeding and so forth. There is a forum for prozinc so ask away there. That's where I am so hope to see you there. :)
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Thank you for the kind words..I have tried to find the spreadsheet on the home page but I get an error 404 saying it's not found. I will work on adding more info on the signature this evening. Thanks again!
 
FatMax'sMom said:
Thank you for the kind words..I have tried to find the spreadsheet on the home page but I get an error 404 saying it's not found. I will work on adding more info on the signature this evening. Thanks again!
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If you go to the main page and look under "Suggestions, Tech Support and Testing Area", you'll see a sticky with the title "How to Set Up a Spreadsheet". If you click on it the instructions should come up. They're quite detailed.
 
I have found the spreadsheet..and I have Google sheets etc., but it isn't opening :( It just hangs there..blank. I'm trying to pen it on my android..I will have to try later.

Thanks!
 
I think I have completed my signature correctly-including Max's glucose curves. I hope it worked..thank you for helping!
Heather
 
Did you do the spreadsheet but just can't open it on your phone? You must download the Google sheets app.

If that doesn't work or if you can't figure out how to do the SS, please send me a private message. In the latter case, I'm happy to do the SS for you and in the former, we will try some things to figure it out.

To send me a message, click on "Marje and Gracie" at the left and then "start conversation". I'd be happy to help.
 
Hi Heather, welcome with Max!
Do you want to continue with Prozinc is the first question? if so then there are people on this forum who can help you with that.
There is a lot of info like Tara and Kristen said like sticky's on the prozinc part of this forum what you can read and understand prozinc better.
Do you have more data from the beginning of May? Because I can't really tell you what's going on with Max right now by only does couple of numbers in your sheet... I would like to see more data.
How is Max feeling? is he acting like himself or is he really lethargic? is he eating well? drinking is normal or does he drink a lot? does he pee a lot?
 
Hi Heather and Matt and welcome to the best place you never wanted to be. :cat:

I have used both ProZinc and Lantus and they are quite different. As you all ready know ProZinc is dosed by the pre shot with consideration to the nadir and is an in/out insulin with duration about 12 -14 hours. It has a curve that resembles a smile. Whereas Lantus is dosed on the nadir with some consideration to the pre shot and it is a depot insulin which means that not all of the insulin in an injection is used at once rather some of it is stored for later and builds up a depot. It's curve is a flatter curve.

I looked at your curves and was wondering in what increments the dose increases were made in. We recommend raising in increments of .25 unit which is what your vet might have had you do. Also were these curves done by you or at the vet office? The reason asked is that when the kitties are at the vets to have their curves done their BG can be spiked due to stress as much as 100- 150 points and then the vet is recommending doses based on those inflated numbers.

here is a link about whether Tight Regulation is possible with a full time job which you might find helpful. Tight regulation is a more aggressive approach to get regulation faster. Some information about TR is
here

If that doesn't fit your life style Start Low Go Slow is a method that is slower because you hold a dose longer before increasing. That link is here

Maybe reading a bit about the two will help you decide if the switch is right for you. It worked for us but then Every Cat Is Different (EVID)

If you have any questions, please ask.
 
Thank you all for your help! Sorry for the late responses..

Margie and Gracie:

I believe I have figured out the spreadsheet and have added the link to my signature. If it is not working please let me know! I was not able view the spreadsheet from my phone, but when I went on a PC I could save it and add the curves I have done.

My cat HATES going to the vet and I give him gabapentin ahead of time to numb his nerves, however it doesn't really work! He doesn't like to be messed with and is fine if he is just sitting in the room, but he SCREAMS (not lying) just when they touch him to listen to his heart...so I know home testing is crucial.

Ruby & Baco:

I do not know enough about the pros and cons of Lantis vs. ProZinc to give you an honest answer of which I would prefer to use. I know that there are at least 7 hours a day, four days a week where no one is home so I am afraid to use something that is unpredictable (although I think it's the cat's glucose levels that is more unpredictable).
Max was only diagnosed mid-May and had his first dose of insulin on May 20th, so the three curves that I have noted on the spreadsheet is all I can do for now. I will be doing another curve tomorrow.
As far as how he is feeling/acting...he is acting more himself at this time, however he is still peeing and drinking more than normal. Two weeks ago the vet did a fructosamine (sp) test as well as a check on his kidney values etc., and she said there has been no change since May..so that is a good sign so far. Before I knew what was going on he was peeing and drinking so much more, and laying around most of the day..that is what made me take him in to get checked out. His diagnosis was caught early because he has been in and out of the vet due to him having a rare tumor on the roof of his mouth..it had been removed three times previous, the last time by a oral surgeon who also took out a few teeth. When it grew back and that surgeon told me she didn't think he should have anymore surgeries due to not much left to put back..I went to a vet who uses traditional and Chinese methods because I didn't want to give up on him and didn't think I had anything to lose. The two herbal tea pills that he takes (which has been verified to not effect nor cause his diabetes) has caused the tumor to not grow back as of yet and it has been almost a year-when it had been growing back every six months. Sorry for all of that info, but I am amazed at how it has been helping him and I tell everyone to give it a try through a vet if they have an animal with cancer.

Bobbie and Bubba:

The vet started Max on one unit of ProZinc to start, and after my curves had me increase by one unit up until 4..then she wanted me to bring him in to check his blood for his average levels and kidney values before going any higher in units..and she wanted me to bring my meter in and we checked hers and mine with the same blood to see how they matched up (there was a 50 mg/dl gap).
She recommended I increase a unit but I asked her if we could just try upping it by a half of unit and she was totally fine with that. So here we are..and I am doing a curve tomorrow to see where he is at. The vet is talking about trying Lantis if I am willing to spend that much money..she said that she has had a few kitties that hadn't gotten regulated on ProZinc, and switched to Lantis and were able to get them regulated. She also said that some kitties just aren't easy to regulate and you have to also go by how they are acting/feeling.

Thank you all so much for listening! You have no idea how much all of this helps...

My only complaint about these forums are all of the abbreviations!!! It really makes things hard to follow. I'm sure there is a "sticky" thread for all of those I just haven't read yet.

Have a great holiday weekend!
Heather
 
I meant to say there has been no change in the kidney values..but the glucose in the blood has lowered SOME, not enough.
 
Hi Heather ~ the only problem with increasing in increments of .50 units is that you can miss the best dose and sometimes too much insulin will look like not enough in the numbers. I would like to tag @Rachel and @Sue and Oliver (GA) to read your post and have them give their opinions.

Have you had a chance to read the stickies I linked for you about Lantus? Those links from the Sticky and each forum has their own stickies listed at the top of each Forum and they have a yellow tag on them that says Sticky. They could help you determine if the switch to Lantus could be a good fit for you. As far a price, they is not a big difference in pricing because with Lantus you use a different syringe (U100) and the dosing is smaller. The initial cost with Lantus might be higher but I think it is all relative.

If you don't understand any of the slang just ask, I had to do a lot of that in the beginning. Here is the link for the slangs
Glossary
 
Are you feeding Pro Plan wet and dry? Pro Plan can be higher carb, even the wet. Some of the flavors are in the 20% carb range. The dry will be high carb also. You might check out the food chart we use: cat info.org. Food might be a big part of his higher numbers. Most people find dry food/high carb wet food can add 100+ to the levels. If he needs to graze during the day, you can leave out the wet as is, or freeze it and let him graze as it thaws.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi Heather ~ the only problem with increasing in increments of .50 units is that you can miss the best dose and sometimes too much insulin will look like not enough in the numbers. I would like to tag @Rachel and @Sue and Oliver (GA) to read your post and have them give their opinions.

Have you had a chance to read the stickies I linked for you about Lantus? Those links from the Sticky and each forum has their own stickies listed at the top of each Forum and they have a yellow tag on them that says Sticky. They could help you determine if the switch to Lantus could be a good fit for you. As far a price, they is not a big difference in pricing because with Lantus you use a different syringe (U100) and the dosing is smaller. The initial cost with Lantus might be higher but I think it is all relative.

If you don't understand any of the slang just ask, I had to do a lot of that in the beginning. Here is the link for the slangs
Glossary
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I have not fully read all of the info on Lantus yet, but I definitely will..thank you for the links.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Are you feeding Pro Plan wet and dry? Pro Plan can be higher carb, even the wet. Some of the flavors are in the 20% carb range. The dry will be high carb also. You might check out the food chart we use: cat info.org. Food might be a big part of his higher numbers. Most people find dry food/high carb wet food can add 100+ to the levels. If he needs to graze during the day, you can leave out the wet as is, or freeze it and let him graze as it thaws.
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He is eating the low carb Diabetic Management kibble and canned food. He really loves his kibble however you are right..it's not the best for him. You wouldn't believe the things he does to wake me up in the middle of the night for food!!
 
I have updated the spreadsheet with today's curve..the lowest numbers I've seen this far..should I not post in this thread any longer...and move to the ProZinc threads?
 
FatMax'sMom said:
He is eating the low carb Diabetic Management kibble and canned food. He really loves his kibble however you are right..it's not the best for him. You wouldn't believe the things he does to wake me up in the middle of the night for food!!
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Good job getting the spreadsheet going! Well done. I 100% recommend STOPPING the dry food immediately and doing just low carb wet. The vets sell us the diabetic management food and so we think it's a good choice when in fact is a horrible choice. something I didn't learn until I had already used a bag and a half of the stuff. The ONLY low carb food dry food I would recommend is made by YoungAgainPetFood.com and it's called Young Again Zero. If you have a kibble addict like me, it's the way to go. It doesn't cause ANY blood glucose spikes in my cat (see her spreadsheet and you can see the difference before the food and after the food.)

If you aren't home testing daily, start today. it's imperative if you want to really get the numbers down. Curves at vets are all messed up because they are anxious. We can talk you through it here if you aren't sure how. My cat was also diagnosed the end of May, but I didn't start home testing until the middle of July. I wish I had started right away because I had no idea her levels were still so high. I feel like if I started earlier she would have made improvements much sooner. Thankfully we've got her numbers under control now (knock on wood) but that absolutely wouldn't have happened without the food change and without home testing.
 
I see you hit a nice yellow number yesterday! That's good! I would stick with that dose for a while and see what happens.
 
Whoa! The food transition needs to be done gradually, with regular monitoring, as those numbers could drop further just through a food change and the dose may need adjustment, come over to the Prozinc forum and join us. You will get some expert eyes on her numbers.
 
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