How to Fix the Dry Food Addicts?

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TurkeyCat

TurkeyCat

Member Since 2016
Hi all,

Well, I switched vets and Turkey has been diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis (on Denosyl, Ursodiol, Cobalequin for that), a UTI (on Orbax for that) and arthritis (Adequan injections) in addition to the diabetes. We've also switched him to Lantus (yay, finally!) and he's doing better on that. The vet is hoping that if we can get his pancreatitis managed, clear up the UIT, and get him on a canned diet, the diabetes may get under control.

I've been trying to get him off of his dry K/D (his kidney values look good and have for about 6 months to a year now) but he's completely turning up his nose at the wet food (trying him on canned DM). I don't want to leave him with no food through the day since he's not eating much to begin with and the Lantus seems to be more effective in bringing his BG down than the Novolin was (surprise surprise).

What are your tips for transitioning to wet when they're not eating much and receiving insulin? I read through this: http://catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_ but it doesn't really provide advice for people whose cats are on insulin while trying to transition. I'm nervous that the twice a day feeding (when he's not eating much at one time) plus the insulin will bring him too low.
 
I see you have read the posted sticky on transitioning...lots of good information in there.

Many kitties do not like the canned DM food. You could try using a wet low carb food like Fancy Feast Classic...pate only...the gravy types are higher carb. While you are doing a food transition you need to be testing moe closely, since some kitties can drop a lot..even 100s of points just with removing high carb dry food from the diet.

It is sometimes better to do a slow transition, using the original food and adding LC wet food to it and little by little cutting back on the dry food. Some kitties will be more interested in the wet food if you add a bit of tuna juice or parmesan cheese to it. The smellier foods often get a kitty's attention better.
 
Also when I transferred my kibble addict to canned, he responded much better to Tiki Cat/Weruva/BFF as they are not the "pate" texture, more like shreds of actual meat, and he seemed to like that texture much better. I believe most of those are low phosphorus as well, but you'd have to double check the list Sharon posted to be sure.
 
Thanks, everyone - I picked up a few cans of the Hi-Tor Neo Veterinary Select a few weeks back. It appears to be kidney-diet safe and I called them and it's less than 10% carbs. Anyone have experience with that food?
 
I looked online and found it....it doesn't offer an "as fed" breakdown of nutrients but the Guaranteed Analysis comes out to about 11% carbs for the FELO cans

The FELO is more medium carb than really low carb

The NEO canned comes out to about 5.6% carbs, but if you look at the ingredient list, it's really no better than any other food that's probably a lot cheaper
 
Thanks, @Chris & China. At this point he's on a full-blown hunger strike - has eaten about 2 bites of his usual kibble this morning, licked the gravy off some canned food and that's about it. His numbers aren't super low (knock on wood) but I'm getting more and more worried about the insulin + no food = hypo. Still wondering how to strike the balance between getting him to eat at all and needing him to eat specific food at specific times.

After reading a bit more, maybe I should get him used to twice a day feedings rather than free feeding first?
 
Twice a day feedings aren't necessary, but it is necessary to re-train them not to expect food at all hours of the day and night like they're used to with kibble

As hard as it is on the bean, the sooner you get them eating on a schedule that works for you, the better off you're all going to be

You might try pulverizing some of his kibble and sprinkling it on his canned food as well as trying different textures of canned....some cats like pates, some like shreds/chunks....finding if there's one texture Turkey likes best will help determine what to use going forward.

Have you tried FortiFlora? It's a powder that's the same stuff they spray on kibble to make it so irresistible to our cats. Just a sprinkle usually gets China eating when she's not sure she approves of the menu being served that meal

On your spreadsheet, since it's not formatted like ours is, can I ask you to do one thing differently? Either add another column after the U columns and put the time there or maybe put the times you shoot in the Notes

It's just kind of hard to "pick out" the number of units he's on among all the other numbers
 
For my dry food addicts, I put a handful of their dry food on top of the canned food. I gradually began mixing it up with the canned. Once they were eating everything in their bowls, I started reducing the amount of dry until they were eating only canned. For most of them it took a few weeks, but eventually all of them were eating canned
 
@Chris & China , you got it- spreadsheet re-formatted!

Turkey is an odd duck - he turns his nose up at stuff most cats love (e.g., tuna, chicken broth, treats). I knew he'd be picky when we started down the wet food path since nothing really gets him excited like that darn kibble. His appetite has been off for weeks now though so he's not been his usual hungry self for much of anything.

I'll try the FortiFlora and mixing in some of his dry when I start re-introducing the wet.
 
Chris & China said:
Yes, that's it!!!
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Thanks, I'll place an order for it!

I think our adventures in wet food transitions will have to wait for a few weeks. Turkey's having what I assume is a bounce day after what I suspect was a very low night. He's simply not eating enough food of any sort - probably 1/8 - 1/4 cup of K/D per day. I think I'll wait until he's eating normally again before changing his schedule to BID feedings and re-introducing wet. Poor guy...feel like I'll never get him straightened out and feeling awful that I let him get low last night.
 
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the medications you listed for Turkey's chronic pancreatitis (Denosyl, Ursodiol, Cobalequin). Are any of those pain medications? Pancreatitis is quite painful and flares often require pain medication (buprenorphrine); some cats with chronic pancreatitis actually need regular bupe. How about anti-nausea? Cerenia or ondansetron are both popular medications for chronic nausea. Check out the primer on pancreatitis. Turkey does remind me of my Rain (my most recent diabetic and pancreatitis kitty). Rain was a dry food addict, extraordinarily picky about her food (including treats; even trying to transition her to a different dry food would sometimes lead to food aversion/hunger strikes) and I'd never been able to get her to eat wet food. She stopped eating after I opened a new bag of her food, vomiting etc. I was already suspecting chronic pancreatitis at that point so I sent off the blood test for it, which came back slightly high. Treated her with an appetite stimulant, cerenia, and buprenorphrine, and a day later she all of a sudden started eating my other cat's wet food and hasn't stopped since. I've kept her on the cerenia since I suspect that a lot of her eating issues have been related to chronic nausea.
 
You could go for the gold. Whenever I bake chicken tenders, I have to stay out of the kitchen until they are done. The 2 cats go nuts waiting for some. I dice it and mix water into it for small bowls of "chicken soup".
 
Wulfwin said:
I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the medications you listed for Turkey's chronic pancreatitis (Denosyl, Ursodiol, Cobalequin). Are any of those pain medications? Pancreatitis is quite painful and flares often require pain medication (buprenorphrine); some cats with chronic pancreatitis actually need regular bupe. How about anti-nausea? Cerenia or ondansetron are both popular medications for chronic nausea. Check out the primer on pancreatitis.
Click to expand...

@Wulfwin there's actually a second sheet on Turkey's spreadsheet that lists his meds, their purpose, cost etc. just to keep me straight! Denosyl is a liver support (his liver values were funky and he'd been on this before and it helped), the Ursodiol is liver and pancreas support, and the Cobalequin is a Vitamin B supplement. It seems like the vet is trying to treat the source (i.e., the actual organs) but I do wonder if he needs anti-nausea and/or appetite stimulants and/or pain meds in addition. However, with all that he's getting at the moment, I don't know how he or I could handle additional meds! Poor guy had insulin, his arthritis injection, and two/four of his other meds just this morning.
 
To be honest, since you've been having so much difficultly with him eating, I would still suggest looking into an anti-nausea medication at the least (that is a lot of meds, poor guy). Cerenia also has some anti-inflammatory as well as anti-nausea effects. If pilling Turkey is hard/stressful, you could check with your vet about the injectable form of Cerenia (that injection does sting though). Bupreprenorphrine can also be given either sub-lingual or as an injection (if you want to try the pain med).
 
Wulfwin said:
If pilling Turkey is hard/stressful, you could check with your vet about the injectable form of Cerenia (that injection does sting though)
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My Tuxie has chronic pancreatitis. When he has one of his flares ups he won't eat..which for a born food vacuum is totally unbelievable. I get Sub Q fluid, some Buprenorphine injectable pre-filled syringes I can do at home and cerenia pre-filled syringes injectable. It makes a WORLD of difference within 24 hours for him.

It costs a lot more to buy the prefilled from the vet but usually within 2 days or less he is back to eating.
 
TurkeyCat said:
Hi all,

Well, I switched vets and Turkey has been diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis (on Denosyl, Ursodiol, Cobalequin for that), a UTI (on Orbax for that) and arthritis (Adequan injections) in addition to the diabetes. We've also switched him to Lantus (yay, finally!) and he's doing better on that. The vet is hoping that if we can get his pancreatitis managed, clear up the UIT, and get him on a canned diet, the diabetes may get under control.

I've been trying to get him off of his dry K/D (his kidney values look good and have for about 6 months to a year now) but he's completely turning up his nose at the wet food (trying him on canned DM). I don't want to leave him with no food through the day since he's not eating much to begin with and the Lantus seems to be more effective in bringing his BG down than the Novolin was (surprise surprise).

What are your tips for transitioning to wet when they're not eating much and receiving insulin? I read through this: http://catinfo.org/#Transitioning_Dry_Food_Addicts_to_Canned_Food_ but it doesn't really provide advice for people whose cats are on insulin while trying to transition. I'm nervous that the twice a day feeding (when he's not eating much at one time) plus the insulin will bring him too low.
Click to expand...

I switched Mush to "Young Again" dry cat food with zero carbs, which is excellent for sugar cats! A bit pricey $30.00 for a 4 lb. bag. I would suggest you go to there website & read up on it.
I also switched him also to wet low carb food. He gets both! He is now in remission for 1 year!
Good Luck to you & you sugar baby!
 
Thanks, everyone. @Wulfwin and @Tuxedo Mom, he's hard to pill but super easy to inject - will actually purr as I give him his insulin and Adequan injections. He's also at the point where he's now refusing his dry food - I have to crush it up and add water to it and for some reason he'll eat it that way. I don't really care as long as he's eating. His numbers are all over the place, I think from his lack of appetite. I'm pretty sure he's nauseous because he'll go up to food, sniff it, lick his lips and walk away.

I'll ask for the Cerenia injection - my vet has a mobile clinic, doesn't work on Fridays, and only has office hours on Wednesdays and Thursdays. We talked about appetite stimulants last week but I have to wait until Monday to hear back. It's frustrating to have to wait that long for answers and get what he needs.
 
JeffJ said:
I can't remember every cats history here. But Turkey sure has some high numbers.
Click to expand...

Ugh, tell me about it! He'll hang in the 400s and then randomly drop and hold in the mid-100s. I'm hoping they'll get better once the pancreatitis is under control. Still ignoring food. :(
 
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