subcutaneous fluid question

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Matt and Goldy

Matt and Goldy

Member Since 2016
Hi everyone, I have another post going, but needed a quick answer if possible
My cat goldy came home and I'm treating for pancreatic issues
does someone know the bag of fluids they have for hydrating him subcutaneously,
should that be refrigerated, and if it is, can you give to a cat
cold like that or should it be kept out of the refrig? thnx
matt
 
I keep bags at room temperature and warm them in the winter when room temperature is colder. In the winter I warms the bag in hot water.
Cold fluids would be uncomfortable for the cat
 
My vet said they don't have to be refrigerated. You can warm them a bit if you want.
 
They don't need to be refrigerated. If you are dealing with pancreatitis, unless it's really hot out, I'd warm the fluids - even a little bit. The last thing a cat that is not eating enough needs to is burn up fuel to reheat.

I'd have to look up how long a bag lasts. I always switched to a new bag every 10 days, if not used up by then. Look for cloudiness.
 
Small Kitty went on KDA last winter, I didn't put much attention to temp. It was sitting on
the ''operation table''. I put the needle with the correct amount of liquid and threw it in.
There was a nice bump on his back, that was funny :)
 
great thankyou
how long does the needle last, its kinda big, I thought
she said 4 times? But she didn't give me any more
She said the doc said give him 50ml once per week
if I wait a week to give him 50ml, I doubt he will be alive
 
You should use a new needle each time. In a pinch, and if the needle has not touched anything it shouldn't have, I've used one a second time. The needle gets much duller each time, and hurts more.

Generally, vets seem to hand out 18 gauge needles, which are big, but fast. If you have a placid cat, you can use 20 gauge needles, or even 22 gauge needles. It just takes a bit longer to do the fluids.

Since it's Sunday, I'd try a TCS store. My TCS store sells small packs of needles.

I know nothing about heart issues and subq fluids. I can't give advice about that but 50ml once a week doesn't sound right at all. Can you call the vet and confirm? Hopefully, someone knowledgeable with heart and subq will be on the forum soon. I'll tag @Wendy&Neko for you.

Here's your other post: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/help-with-pancreatis.162130/#post-1744112
 
Here's a video on giving subq fluids - it includes names of sources for bag/fluids, lines and needles in the US, as well as ways to warm the fluids before hand. I filled a bread pad with warm water and used a infrared thermometer my DH got me at his favorite tool store. My vet game me 20g needles to start when I asked for them.

As I mentioned in your other thread, my Neko also has a heart condition which we didn't know about at the time we started fluids. After her heart condition diagnosis, the cardiologist told me to stop giving fluids and she's much better off of it. She was getting 75ml a day (she's a big girl, 13-14 lbs), now none. She's a good drinker and I add lots of water to her food.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
she said 4 times
Click to expand...

Anything that went to the inside of the body is carrying particles that when exposed
to the air can be contaminated (grabbing external elements).

When taking care of Small Kitty I had to recycle needles. So what I did was to pass
the needle through a q-tip, make sure there wasn't any fiber then put it back in it's
socket. I guess that this way organic fluid were absorbed by the cotton. I used the
needle more then 4 times that way.

This is what I did, not necessarily what an anesthetist would have done it :)

You do with what you have
 
I would never reuse a needle. They get dull very quickly. Somewhere I have pictures of this but I don't have time to look now. A whole box of the good terumo ultra thin wall 20 gauge just costs $5.95 so why risk it?

Maybe they said the tubing lines can be used 4 times? That would make more sense as I've heard that. I would not use them that many times but I am very careful and do use each one twice.
 
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Damn, I'm so sorry, this is becoming so overwhelming, I'm getting seriously stressed by this. Sooo the big needles at the end of the iv pack going into him need replaced every time?
Unfortunately, I don't think they give that out here without a prescription, I will call though.
As far as force feeding him, how much and is the gerber baby food enough?
This is so hard, I am trying but losing him
 
Matt and Goldy said:
Damn, I'm so sorry, this is becoming so overwhelming, I'm getting seriously stressed by this. Sooo the big needles at the end of the iv pack going into him need replaced every time?
Unfortunately, I don't think they give that out here without a prescription, I will call though.
As far as force feeding him, how much and is the gerber baby food enough?
This is so hard, I am trying but losing him
Click to expand...

When assist feeding they need to be given as much food as they normally eat (when they are feeling well and eating on their own). Use the baby food meat to try to encourage eating. The baby food is not nutritionally complete so it is only used during periods of crisis, for as short a time as possible.

Yes, the needle that you put into the cat is the one that needs replaced every use.
 
My only worries would be to have the required element getting into the body. To recover Goldy will
need :

Fluid : there is 2 ways 1: subq with what you have on hands 2: Syringe to insert liquid through his mouth.

Food : Using the same type of syringe, mix paté style food with water until you get a semi-thick liquid and slowly fill his throat of this liquid. He might throw up some but some will get in.
Eventually you can put the liquefied food at the bottom of your hand and see if he licks it.

Throw as much liquid and food has he might need, this is at the end what saved Small Kitty from KDA.
I threw food and liquid at quite a good rate (every 3h for syringed water and food, every 8h for subq).
After 2 days of that treatment he had gained 1 pound and numbers came back to more normal levels.
That's me, I'm a practical man. Without going into the daredevil side, still being conscientious
of what I was doing, I did what had to be done and didn't stay there doing nothing because
something was missing or not perfect. The live if my cat depended on me and he's in very
good shape now.
.
 
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if you can get 2-3 jars of baby food eaten that will be great. Don't worry about it not having all the nutrients he needs. Once he's feeling better he will eat cat food again. Tge chicken is 100 calories per hat and ham is 80 so use the chicken.
 
cool thanks again everyone, had a little breakdown earlier, pulled it back together
your posts help so much just knowing others have done this
yestday I brought him home, today I realized this is going to be a fight, and it aint gonna
just happen,
went from the little syringe to the big one, and even though he hates it, I am getting the
baby food, and will get some cat food with water syringed too...
Occasionally he is still drinking the tuna water, so that is a little help
poked his ear and his glucose was only 55 so that's being controlled well, maybe too well
noticed he hasn't gone #2 at all, and only peed yesterday
luckily a friend had some buprenorphine, so he hooked me up with that temporarily until
I get to another vet (or atleast the same one for other meds)
 
That is low. Have you been giving insulin? Was that his nadir? If pmps have you ever shot that low? Do you have a spreadsheet? Sorry for so many questions but I want to help.

I used to put the cat food in a Cusinart Mini Prep machine with warm water and grind it up really good. This is the one.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/sto...2400330?Keyword=cuisinart+mini+food+processor

I know this is all difficult. The first time you face this kind of a crisis is really hard. Lean on off and we will help you through it as best we can.:bighug:
 
yeah its real late or in the morning and I'm gonna stay up all night to help him,
yeah they said how much to give he is on vetsulin,
I will back off on dose it was 358 when I brought him home
I am realizing now that he is seriously in PAIN, I get it now, and the more I look
at the bill from the vets office he was at I realize I just wasted a week and $1500 for nothing
but basically him being put on an iv, tried to force feed, and given a newer pain killer that's like
called Onisor, and I'm tellin you I am so pissed, they gave it to him on the 26th of july? and that's
it
I am so pissed right now at this vet, just sent this receptionist a letter telling my disgust
I emailed her earlier, and asked about all the stuff, and would I be able to get it, another iv needle,
pain meds, appetite stimulant, and she rights back she would forward the email, and she
could maybe get the cerenia, and that's it?
Needless to say I am done with them, but not sure if he is gonna make it to another place, I will call
this other one tomorrow and see if they can get me in....
 
Zyrtec can work as an appetite stimulant. I gave it to Max when he was sneezing and it worked as an appy stimulant. You give 1/4 of a regular strength 10mg tablet twice a day. You need the cerenia though because you don't want to stimulate the appy of a nauseous cat. They don't want to give you needles for the fluids yet tgey sold you the fluids? Ridiculous.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
Damn, I'm so sorry, this is becoming so overwhelming, I'm getting seriously stressed by this. Sooo the big needles at the end of the iv pack going into him need replaced every time?
Unfortunately, I don't think they give that out here without a prescription, I will call though.
As far as force feeding him, how much and is the gerber baby food enough?
This is so hard, I am trying but losing him
Click to expand...
Go back to the vet and ask for some. They give us like 20 when we get our bag.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
great thankyou
how long does the needle last, its kinda big, I thought
she said 4 times? But she didn't give me any more
She said the doc said give him 50ml once per week
if I wait a week to give him 50ml, I doubt he will be alive
Click to expand...
oh gosh not 4 times. one time use only. each poke dulls the needle. ouchie!
 
wanted to let everyone know, I found a different vet today, and he is awesome, not that the news may
be all good, and could frankly end up being a tumor or something, but atleast this guy knows what he is
doing, I have all the meds we have talked about and a appetite stimulant, he explained all about everything
including his heart issue, and says its at a 2-3 on a level of 1-6, 6 being the worst, so not the absolute worse
news there. He said he feels he will be able to get goldy living a decent life, here, but said I will give it to
you truthfully, and direct, and we will do what we can for him. If it turns out bad he will be there for me day
and night, gave me his cell phone directly said I could call him anytime. Unbelievable, especially after not even
being able to talk to the other doctor for a week??
 
What a relief! Does he have a heart murmur? If so not all are a problem. Max has a benign one. He had an echo to see. He didn't need any follow up after that.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
wanted to let everyone know, I found a different vet today, and he is awesome, not that the news may
be all good, and could frankly end up being a tumor or something, but atleast this guy knows what he is
doing, I have all the meds we have talked about and a appetite stimulant, he explained all about everything
including his heart issue, and says its at a 2-3 on a level of 1-6, 6 being the worst, so not the absolute worse
news there. He said he feels he will be able to get goldy living a decent life, here, but said I will give it to
you truthfully, and direct, and we will do what we can for him. If it turns out bad he will be there for me day
and night, gave me his cell phone directly said I could call him anytime. Unbelievable, especially after not even
being able to talk to the other doctor for a week??
Click to expand...
Now that's the kind of vet you need. This is a person willing to work with you and has your cat's best interest at heart. best wishes.
 
Yes he gave him them himself, said wait on the one I have, and wants to see him Thursday
unless he needs to see him sooner but wants an email tomm on his status
you are not going to believe this I saw this guy today at like 1 pm
gave him the appetite stimulator he explained all about how they give it to chemo patients, and found
out it worked in veterinary medicine
here it is 445 and he is eating I cant believe it, thought I was taking him in to be put to sleep, possibly
hey I see your in GA, anywhere near Warner Robins? (thought Id give you name of vet if your near there)
 
JanetNJ said:
Now that's the kind of vet you need. This is a person willing to work with you and has your cat's best interest at heart. best wishes.
Click to expand...
wow everyone has such beautiful cats I'm finally actually getting a chance to look at the pics
yeah this doc is super cool I mean its been years since I found a person like this
thanks again
 
tiffmaxee said:
What a relief! Does he have a heart murmur? If so not all are a problem. Max has a benign one. He had an echo to see. He didn't need any follow up after that.
Click to expand...
thanks and that's great about Max and gives me hope...
I'm finally checkin out profiles now that Ive calmed down a little
LA? Awesome
Max is beautiful too, and lucky he has you
 
So glad Goldy is eating. I'd suggest letting her eat small amounts often. Better chance of food staying down.

Matt and Goldy said:
sorry I see your from Canada thought the ga was Georgia
wow beautiful cat btw
Click to expand...
Yes, he was a beautiful beast. Closest I get to Georgia is son who goes down every March to row in Russell State Park.

GA stands for Guardian Angel / Gone Away.
 
Matt - I am so pleased you found a vet who sounds pretty awesome after what you have been through, glad Goldy is doing better now with the right meds.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
So glad Goldy is eating. I'd suggest letting her eat small amounts often. Better chance of food staying down.


Yes, he was a beautiful beast. Closest I get to Georgia is son who goes down every March to row in Russell State Park.

GA stands for Guardian Angel / Gone Away.
Click to expand...
Sorry its been a stressful week, just read that and wanted to say
he was lucky to have you...and you him I'm sure
and your right he looks like a beautiful beast

goldy is still trying hard to live, hes not giving up yet,
and out of pain, so will keep him comfortable as long as I can
new doctor is doing a series of tests, to see if he does have
cancer, tumors, etc...but the greatest thing about it is he says
there is no reason to have him hospitalized, take him home and
luv him, he says...
amazingly goldy has been over to this new office 2 times now, and
I told him we were going to see the new doctor, and he walks right
in his carrier, something he never does?? (I swear they sense good and
bad care)
I'm prayin it turns out well, but he is happy today..

Have a great one
 
Woodsywife said:
@Matt and Goldy how is it going? Godly still eating a little better?
Click to expand...
wanted to let ya know, goldy is still eating, but wondering if its all the drug he is taking,
didn't poop for 5 days atleast so that was concerning, but he went at the drs office today while
getting some more tests. He said his colon was impacted.
Waiting for results..
its been a rough week, and very little sleep.
thanks again for caring
 
Glad he is happy and pain has subsided. Keep up with the pain and nausea med. Pancreatitis can be a long battle. One step forward then two steps back seems to be the norm. Hope the appetite is getting better.

You can add pure pumpkin to his food. He hasn't eaten well lately and bupre can be constipating.

Ask the vet about miralax.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
thanks and that's great about Max and gives me hope...
I'm finally checkin out profiles now that Ive calmed down a little
LA? Awesome
Max is beautiful too, and lucky he has you
Click to expand...
Thanks. Goldy is lucky to have you as well.

I give Max 1/8 teaspoon Miralax in his food morning and night. He doesn't know it's there. I add water to the food too as that helps. For Max tge nausea medication is essential. I use ondansetron which is a human drug and it's a miracle worker. It's also cheaper than cerenia. I have bought it both on line and at Costco. It's a pill that I gave to cut using a pill cutter and then I put it in a gelcap. It too seems to cause constipation. Whenever Max was on it I noticed his stool got hard and dry. Just 1/8 t of Miralax worked well. Now that he's on a phosphorus binder I had to increase to twice a day. It's gentle and a dose to effect med. If it works too well, I give less. If he skips a day, he gets a little more. Talk it over with your vet. I hope you still like the new one. :bighug:
 
Thanks for the advice and help again from all of you,
this has been a long week and it really is questioning my
soul as to whether I could have another pet again. I just don't
get it, $3k down, and still really don't know exactly what is
wrong with him and when I do find out do I even have a chance
to treat him? Oh well I will take that when it comes...
Atleast for now he seems pretty happy, although this appetite
stimulant changes him.
But one step at a time....
its really nice to know others have been through similar
things Thanks again
 
How is the appetite stimulant changing him? There are others. I like cyproheptadine. It's another human drug. Max just needs a sliver, 1/8 or less of a pill and it's dosed up to twice a day. I've also used 1/3-1/4 of a 10mg regular strength Zyrtec twice a day. That's over the counter. What is causing this might be just pancreatitis or it could be more. Max needed the help of medication for a couple of months the first time he had pancreatitis. I hope that is all that is wrong with Goldy. It's enough to deal with it. Hang in there.
 
Matt and Goldy said:
Thanks for the advice and help again from all of you,
this has been a long week and it really is questioning my
soul as to whether I could have another pet again. I just don't
get it, $3k down, and still really don't know exactly what is
wrong with him and when I do find out do I even have a chance
to treat him? Oh well I will take that when it comes...
Atleast for now he seems pretty happy, although this appetite
stimulant changes him.
But one step at a time....
its really nice to know others have been through similar
things Thanks again
Click to expand...

Just read this thread tonight.
Wanted you to know that I have been in your shoes many times. Wondering what to do, the stress, the cost, the helpless feeling, and the crisis created by a having a pet treated by an incompetent vet.

Cerenia is very important as a treatment for pancreatitis and for general inflammation. It can do wonders. Fluids, cerenia, pepcid, buprenex, and bland food like Beech Nut baby food, or Gerber baby food, meat only. For constipation, 1/8 to 1/6 teaspoon of miralax either mixed in a small amount of food or syringed with water. I am not a fan of Mirtazapine for creating appetite. It can be a double edged sword as a nauseated cat being made hungry is not ideal, plus, some cats react poorly to Mirtazapine, and become a little manic.
 
it really helps knowing others have dealt with these issues thankyou for sharing that
still waiting for results of tests
the appetite stimulator seems to "wire" him, prances alot, cries (not in an in pain way) like he is on speed
totally different personality, don't even know who he is then day after ok sooo better
than nothing, but may try others
seems goldy now has another issue going on, 2 big sores around the size of nickel and quarter on
hi right shoulder area?
That and his glucose shooting up then down...500 for the past 2 days before
being treated then...it goes down, and happened to check it today 14 hours after
2.5 units and it was 55. Thank god I didn't just give him the 12 hour dose, that I
missed
I also noticed he was in pain tonight
overall doing better
 
Mirt made my Tiffany very hyper too. It's nickname is meowzapibe. That is why I suggest you try Zyrtec or get an RX for cyproheptadine. Mirt can cause a condition called seratonine syndrome which can be very serious and cyproheptadine is the antidote I don't know what the sores could be but us call the vet and when you do tell him about the reaction to mirt.
 
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