7/25 Walter AMPS 256, +2 225, +5 157, +8 137, PMPS 107 / Mandarin AMBG 249, +5 203 - vetty update

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Mandarin'sMom

Mandarin'sMom

Member Since 2014
Yesterday's condo

This morning's number probably makes it official: Mandarin is no longer in remission. :arghh: I could just kick myself that I bought dry food for the kittens - I really should have known better. To make matters worse: he hasn't been eating much. He didn't want to touch the food at +6 or +9 over night and only ate a few bites this morning. Is it possible that the dry food incident triggered pancreatitis?

I will try to get him into the vet today to see if there might be something else going on and then start him back up on Insulin tonight or tomorrow morning (unless there is a dramatic improvement... which seems unlikely at this point). But what would be a good starting dose? He weighs about 14 pounds and he is a young cat (he just turned 4).
 
Oh no! Big hugs!!! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

I don't have any advice about what the dry food might have done or if you should start insulin again. Maybe it takes just a bit longer for the dry to exit his system? :bighug::bighug:
 
Ah Christina I'm so sorry this has happened. But don't be too hard on yourself; you were being pressured to feed dry food to the kittens and who would have thought that one of the fur babies would have chewed a hole in the bag?
I think it's possible that Mandarin's tummy is upset because he wasn't used to the dry food so hopefully his appetite will pick up.
Personally, I would start with a low dose; Mandarin may only need a wee bit of insulin and he'll go right back into remission! Paws crossed. But I'm no expert and it certainly didn't work for me when Boomer came out of remission last year.
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
Thank you. I just can't help but feel like I failed him. The chances of him him going OTJ again are probably slim and he is only four years old and should have his whole life ahead of him.
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I know, I'm sure I would feel the same way.
This was his first time OTJ? Second remissions do happen; Boomer is proof!

Perhaps tag or pm Wendy and Marje to get their take on when to restart insulin and how much?
 
Oh Christina, sorry that this has happened! But please don't beat yourself up over it! You were just trying to help the kittens. I bet Mandarin goes right back OTJ after just a few days!
 
((((Christina)))) you have not failed him.:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

Lets see what the doc says, if he's not feeling well, that may be affecting his BG.

Not sure what would be a good starting point if you do need to re start insulin.
When did he get into the contraband? ie how many hours ago (give or take)?
 
I hope you can get Madarin in to the vet today so you can make sure there is nothing else going on. I think it takes at least 24 hours for dry food to get out of their system. Maybe he'll come down today.

Don't be hard on yourself. You had no way to know he'd get into it. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Anything can trigger pancreatitis. I think there is a good chance that something else is causing the rise in bg but if not I doubt it's eating dry food once. The fact that his appy is down makes me think perhaps infection somewhere or pancreatitis. I hope it's something like that and will be easily fixed so he can continue his life at the Falls.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I thought to have read that when a cat is dx with FD it's recommended removing dry for 5 days before starting insulin. Darn if I can remember where that source came from. He threw a 49 AMBG last week so I'd probably wait until after the vetty visit. If a starting dose is needed I'd probably go with .25 and hope he responds greatly. So many :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for you.
 
Judy and Boomer said:
This was his first time OTJ
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Unfortunately, this was already his second time OTJ. He was originally diagnosed after a Depo shot in 2014 and then went OTJ after just a few weeks on Insulin. He relapsed when he had pancreatitis last fall.

Gill & George said:
When did he get into the contraband? ie how many hours ago (give or take)?
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They chewed the bag open Saturday night and probably ate all night until I took the bag away. So it has been about 26 hours at this point. Knowing Mandarin and Capone, they didn't just get a few kibble.

tiffmaxee said:
Anything can trigger pancreatitis.
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Unfortunately, that's how he ended up back on Insulin last year: pancreatitis. However, at the time, it was very obvious that he was ill. He stopped eating completely and was curled up in a corner and basically refused to even get up. I am still waiting for a call back from the vet. Today is her surgery day and they were not sure if she could squeeze him in after she is done.

Doodles & Karen said:
I thought to have read that when a cat is dx with FD it's recommended removing dry for 5 days before starting insulin.
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Hm, interesting... I wonder if it can really take that long for his BG to come back down. He is so stressed that he is just running from me, so there's no way I can get another test. I am trying to let him settle down a bit... and I hope that I'll be able to catch him if we can get a vet appointment.
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
He is so stressed that he is just running from me, so there's no way I can get another test.
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He's probably picking up your anxiety, they are such sensitive creatures. Try to relax, you are doing all you can:bighug::bighug::bighug:

Mandarin'sMom said:
So it has been about 26 hours at this point. Knowing Mandarin and Capone, they didn't just get a few kibble.
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When I've seen a couple of folk have kitty go cold turkey on the dry food, the BG have not crashed until the second day (granted kitty was on insulin, so that may influence things) so it may still be to early to tell. We are all keeping our paws crossed and praying he comes down for you just as soon as the carbs are out of his system. :bighug::bighug::bighug:

Mandarin'sMom said:
Knowing Mandarin and Capone, they didn't just get a few kibble.
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Maybe Mandarin is feeling a bit icky after his binge, George got into the dog kibble once, before his FD diagnosis, he had a total binge while I was out for the morning and he puked 5 times in the afternoon, I just couldn't believe how much kibble he had consumed:eek:
 
Do you have ondansetron? Max also be a e inappetent and stopped eating totally when diagnosed. He doesn't have nearly as many relapses but vet visits do bring them on. I treat the symptoms at tge first sign now.

I think waiting five days before starting insulin might be for new to diabetes to make sure they can't be diet controlled before starting. My bet is on pancreatitis which when resolved should bring him back to normal. Hope so.
 
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We have a vet appointment at 3 pm (+7). Very relieved that they can see him today. I am sure that my anxiety is stressing him out to no end... and I really hope that I can get him into a carrier. Even on the best of days, he is not easy to pick (and I still have the scars from the last time I tried).

tiffmaxee said:
Do you have ondansetron?
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I don't have any at home - but if the vet is concerned about pancreatitis, I will get some. So far, he doesn't seem to act sick... or at least he's not anywhere near as bad as the last time.
 
I'm so sorry Mandarin is not feeling well. (I hope you pointed out that it's his fault for eating kibble!)

@Doodles & Karen
I thought to have read that when a cat is dx with FD it's recommended removing dry for 5 days before starting insulin.
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I've never heard this. Practically speaking, it makes no sense. What if the cat has DKA. You wouldn't withhold insulin. In this situation, it's not like Mandarin was on a steady diet of dry food, either.

I'd see what the vet says but I would think seeing how Mandarin does on 0.25u might make sense as a starting dose. What do you think?
 
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I'd see what the vet says but I would think seeing how Mandarin does on 0.25u might make sense as a starting dose. What do you think?
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That sounds like a good, safe start. I am definitely nervous about giving too much Insulin, especially now that he is leery of me and not eating well. He is a shy cat in general and I can't always be sure that I can test him.
 
Oh no! Sorry to hear Mandarin isn't feeling good. I agree with the others: there was no way to know he'd get into the contraband, and it may be something unrelated causing him not to feel well. Let us know what the vetty says.
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
hope that I can get him into a carrier. Even on the best of days, he is not easy to pick (and I still have the scars from the last time I tried).
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I have the same issue with Boomer and he's stronger than I am lol. Sometimes it works to cover his head with a towel so that he can't see the carrier. And there's something my vet uses to calm kitties down...I don't know what it's called but it looks like one of those claw clips that hold your hair back. My vet attaches it to the scruff and it does seem to calm the kitties down. Mind you it might make it more difficult to get the cat in the carrier!
 
Oh Christina I am so sorry to read your thread today and can only imagine upset you are right now. It sounds like Mandarin has something going on that is causing the higher numbers other than just getting into the dry. I think I mentioned yesterday that dry food with corn in it made my cats so sick, vomiting and diarrhea. Does Mandarin have any GI upsets along with not wanting to eat?
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) , I think you meant to tag Doodles and Karen about the below statement. I have never heard that befoe.

Doodles & Karen said:
I thought to have read that when a cat is dx with FD it's recommended removing dry for 5 days before starting insulin.
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Keeping fingers and paws crossed to see what the vet thinks. Sending lots of hugs. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh Christina I am so sorry to read your thread today and can only imagine upset you are right now. It sounds like Mandarin has something going on that is causing the higher numbers other than just getting into the dry. I think I mentioned yesterday that dry food with corn in it made my cats so sick, vomiting and diarrhea. Does Mandarin have any GI upsets along with not wanting to eat?
@Sienne and Gabby (GA) , I think you meant to tag Doodles and Karen about the below statement. I have never heard that befoe.


Keeping fingers and paws crossed to see what the vet thinks. Sending lots of hugs. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
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Sorry!
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
I don't have any at home - but if the vet is concerned about pancreatitis, I will get some. So far, he doesn't seem to act sick... or at least he's not anywhere near as bad as the last time.
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I always have some on hand. I'm glad you got an appointment.
 
Mandarin'sMom said:
We have a vet appointment at 3 pm (+7). Very relieved that they can see him today. I am sure that my anxiety is stressing him out to no end... and I really hope that I can get him into a carrier. Even on the best of days, he is not easy to pick (and I still have the scars from the last time I tried).


I don't have any at home - but if the vet is concerned about pancreatitis, I will get some. So far, he doesn't seem to act sick... or at least he's not anywhere near as bad as the last time.
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If it turns out to be p'titis, getting a script for pain med is a good idea. You will have it on hand to give at first signs.
 
{{{Christina}}}

I know how worried you are. I agree with the others that Mandarin is picking up on your stress. I know it's easy for us to tell you to calm down, and not so easy to do. Take some deep breaths. Even if Mandarin has to go back on the juice, this is not the end of the world. There are lots of reasons he could have high BGs, and NONE OF THEM ARE YOUR FAULT!!!! You do an amazing job with all your kitties. Hopefully your vet will have some answers and you can make a plan to get Mandarin back to feeling good, eating and enjoying life. Hang in there.

Sending healing and appy vines for Mandarin and calming vines for you. :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
We are back from the vet! Getting him into a carrier was not pretty... let's just say that I knew they wouldn't be able to get a urine sample from him. :eek: ...and his bean could probably use a round of antibiotics now too. :(

Luckily, he was better once we actually got there and they were able to do an exam without sedating him. There is no indication for pancreatitis. His belly is not tender and he doesn't seem painful. However, his mouth is horrible. He has a history of resorptive lesions and his last dental was just a little over a year ago, but he already has a lot of tartar and gingivitis. He was also bleeding from his lower jaw and it is possible that he fractured one of his rotten teeth when he raided the kitten kibble.

So it looks like the dry food might have caused the spike in his BG levels, but with the infection in his mouth, it would have probably happened either way. While this isn't exactly good news, I am feeling a little less guilty and I am glad that I was able to get him in right away. I should have the results from his blood work tomorrow and unless there are any major surprises, he will go in for a dental on Monday, August 1st. I will start him on Clindamycin 3 days prior to the dental.

The vet also recommended that I start him on Insulin tomorrow if he is still running high. I will let him be for now. I don't think there's any way I could test him and I am sure he is sky high after today's stressful day.

Thank you, everyone, for your support and your kind words.
 
Well it's good that you found the dental issue and are able to get him in within a few days. Since his higher BG was caught right away, hopefully he'll respond quickly to the insulin and paws crossed he goes back into remission.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Practically speaking, it makes no sense. What if the cat has DKA. You wouldn't withhold insulin. In this situation, it's not like Mandarin was on a steady diet of dry food, either
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I agree about it not making sense. Believe it was somewhere buried in the DCIN forum in regard to detoxing from dry food but now that I had a nap it didn't say withhold insulin it was that you couldn't follow TR until 5 days after all dry was removed. Sorry Christina , I should've held my response until finding the source.

Glad you are able to get Mandarin to the vet this afternoon.
 
Christina, so glad that got him in ASAP and you know about the dental. Did you say that his last one was just one year ago? This makes me want to be very diligent with Bubba as his last dental was Sept. Think I will schedule it right away. Fingers and paws crossed that the short stay with a bit of insulin will help in addition to removing the fractured tooth. Keep good thoughts that this is just temporary. Sending lots and lots of "be comfortable vines " to Mandarin and NOT "be upset vines" to you:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
I'm glad that you found an answer to Mandarin's numbers. :bighug::bighug: Sorry it means another dental, but Neko's has had to have dentals closer than a year apart. Paws crossed Mandarin can quickly get back to the falls. It's a good thing you were on things so quickly and he's not going to get a chance to linger in higher numbers.

Maybe before the next vet visit, you both need some Rescue Remedy. ;)
 
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