07/15 - Small Kitty amps 439 +11.75 52 +12.5 61 [haft dose] pmps +1 115 +2 131 +3 146 +5 203

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Photorecon

Photorecon

Very Active Member
Good morning,

My ho My, what feelings these little kitties can bring us... One day you're happy, the next scared to death...

Last night, just after coming from a long ride to find the precise food that works for Small Kitty
I was back home reading suggestions following the green pmps with skipped dose.

Tuxedo mom (Mary Ann) and Bobbie had a suggestion I didn't even know existed, the 18/18.
When skipping a dose you shoot at +18 and skip the next shot so you have less then 24 between hots.

So there I was, weapon loaded (syringe) but no target in sight. Went to the front balcony, nothing,
at the back patio : nothing.. under the bed nothing... The little b. had been able to climb the net
installed witch was something like 10 feet high ! NOWHERE TO BE FOUND !!!

I didn't even bother going out for a search and rescue mission, night ride at to unknown
territory and I knew it would be hard to find him..

Went back to sleep, not that worry because they always come back, before I know they at at my
feet on the bed. But this morning, there was only one cat at my food, Big Brother.

NOW I was a bit worried. Did the morning tour, what has to be done and went outside.. No Small Kitty.
Started opening cans (the sound attract my kitties), shaking the cat treat small can... not a more, nothing.

I still knew he was to come back but was kind of worry of missing the morning dose. So I took my phone
and played :


No results but now I had to take care of myself, prepare for work.

Not a minute later, here he was, crossing the door step like if nothing happened.
and started meowing asking for food... Took him in my harms and said BAD BOY !

So today NO CATIO !

Result is not bad for a 24h with no insulin, he's in the red, not black.

Will see what the reduced dose will do this evening, if he's in the blue, witch I doubt,
that would mean he's in very good shape.

Wish you a good day all, last work day coming soon.

Sébastien

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...mps-74-1-148-2-337-4-396.161288/#post-1724970
 
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Oh what a night you had! I am so glad that SK came home, the little stinker. How did he escape? Maybe a good nickname for him would be Houdini.
Photorecon said:
Result is not bad for a 24h with no insulin, still purple !
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Check your SS as it looks like he's in the red not purple.

Love the video!
 
YIKES!!! :eek::eek::eek:

What an uproar SK caused and he doesn't even seem to care. BAD SK!!! Great "Meow video" :cat:

Considering that you had to skip the shot last night, SK's numbers aren't all that bad. Part of the higher number is from bouncing and part from a skipped shot. His last bounce took you into the blacks even with the evening shot given. Hopefully SK will clear this bounce and get back on target...with no huge drops...very quickly. Fingers crossed that the bounce clears so that you can get a good curve this weekend.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Oh what a night you had! I am so glad that SK came home, the little stinker. How did he escape? Maybe a good nickname for him would be Houdini.

Check your SS as it looks like he's in the red not purple.

Love the video!
Click to expand...

Think he climb midway up to the top of the fence and squeezed himself between the wall and net above, walked on the ramp (1 story high) then too the stairs to run...

Made the correction, on my post, he was actually in the red, thanks !
 
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Photorecon said:
I've stopped making prediction, Small Kitty his just too unpredictable. :)

.
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He is just bouncing and that we are seeing him go into lower numbers is great news. All you can do is just wear the patience pants that many of us have had to wear. Here's a pair.

1P0167.628.a.zoom.jpg
 
Surprise after surprise. Don't know if it's the ride out last night, but Small Kitty is
hell low now. As suggested I wont feed (although they're both, with Big Brother asking for food)
but never knew what to do next ?

If GL stays level in 20 min, should I wait for another haft hour to see ?
 
Small Kitty received his reduced dose that was 2.5u to 2.25 this morning. Skipped shot last pmps
for same low number.

Yesterday pmps : 74
Today pmps : 52

Using pet meter.
 
HOW TO DEAL WITH LOW PRESHOT NUMBERS:

The following guidelines apply to those following the Tight Regulation Protocol only.

You just tested your cat’s preshot number, and there is a much lower than usual number staring back at you. What do you do?

There is no one-size-fits all answer, but there are some general guidelines. As with everything else, each cat is different (ECID) and each caregiver is different too.

The short answer is that most kitties can be shot at +12, almost regardless of the number, once you are data ready to do so. The exception is that shooting 30s or 40s is not recommended for most cats, so if a cat is lower then usually the best option is to wait until they are at a shootable number to shoot. What constitutes a shootable number will vary by cat, but we don't suggest or recommend shooting a preshot number less than 50. While you’re waiting, the depot is draining, so you want to get the insulin in as soon as it makes sense to shoot.

If it is your first time shooting green, then we will likely suggest that you stall the first time, even if the number is 80-100. That will let you collect data on what your cat will do when you stall. One thing you can do if you are having a low cycle is to get a +10 and +11. Those will give you a good idea of how quickly the cat’s numbers are rising (or not) when preshot time arrives.

Beyond the general guidelines, there are other factors we consider when we are helping someone with a low preshot.
  • If the low preshot is not part of that cat’s normal pattern or there is reason to think something might be wrong, we will be more conservative.
  • If the cat is not a food spiker or tends to have an early onset/early nadir then they may not want to shoot as low. If the cat has a late nadir, then they will HAVE to learn to shoot low.
  • We will also be more conservative in some cases because of the person – if you are not able to monitor then you want to be more careful, or if you are not sure that you can get back to the board to keep us updated throughout the cycle. Trust me, if you shoot low, we will be watching for your updates and we will worry if we don’t see them.
  • We have to be a lot more careful with the cats who eat only dry food, because they don’t have access to the tools the rest of us use to keep our cats safe.
  • Also, when it comes to very low preshots, there is an unwritten rule that whoever helps that person shoot low should expect to sit with them through any low parts of the cycle. There have been times when I knew a cat’s number was likely shootable, but I also knew that I could not be around to help if the shot resulted in low numbers later in the cycle. For safety’s sake, if I could not find someone else who would be available to support for the next several hours, I would most likely suggest that the shot be reduced or skipped. I will not encourage someone to shoot low and then abandon them.
  • There are a lot of other scenarios, and you always want to keep your cat in mind.
Some general rules when stalling (ECID):

** 50s or higher – don’t feed. The number will bump up on its own soon due to the insulin wearing off.
** 40s or lower – you have a couple of choices.
  • When 40s occur at the end of the cycle, it can be beneficial to withhold food and test in 15-20 minutes to determine if kitty is on the rise or hasn’t reached nadir yet.
  • If they are hanging in the 40s for a while, or if they are still dropping, it is ok to feed a tsp or two of LC and retest. This is very tricky. You want to avoid feeding too much while you’re waiting for them to go over 50, because you don’t want to artificially inflate the number with food.
    • --- Example: if kitty is 43 and you feed a whole meal, or feed some HC, and the number bumps up to 52, is that the cat’s natural end-of-cycle rise, or is it food spike? What if it is food spike? Then if you shoot the 52, when the food wears off he might drop back to the 40’s (and when insulin kicks in a couple of hours later, you might have a problem). If the 52 is the cat’s natural rise, then he will probably keep rising for the next few hours until insulin kicks in. If you can’t tell whether the number is food spike or natural rise, it’s safest to wait. Your data will help you here. Study the spreadsheet. How much food spike does the cat usually get? How many hours after the shot does the insulin’s onset usually occur in this cat? At what number is the cat likely to be when onset occurs? If the cat does drop, how easy/hard is it to regain control of the numbers? How carb sensitive is he?
** Test often (every 15-20 minutes, or at most every 30 minutes). You want to catch the rise the minute it starts. With most of our cats, once they start to rise they will really zoom. You want to get the insulin in as soon as possible, because it will be another 2-3 hours before the insulin kicks in and you don’t want to let the cycle get too far ahead of you.

Perhaps the most important guideline in shooting low is that any time you shoot your lowest ever number, you should get a +1 and +2 to give you an idea of how the cycle will go. If the +1 is not higher than PS, or if +2 is much lower than PS, that means “pay attention” over the next few hours. Those tests will also help you become even more data ready for the next time you are presented with a low preshot reading.

Using the overlap by shooting low is a great way to take advantage of Lantus/Levemir’s long, flat cycles, once you have learned to do so safely.

~ written by Libby and Lucy
 
Your 52 at +12 on an AT is probably equivalent to a test in the 40's on the human meter, which is why I highlighted that part above.

If you can't stay up to monitor, then you really can't shoot low and go to sleep. How long could you stay up with him tonight?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Your 52 at +12 on an AT is probably equivalent to a test in the 40's on the human meter, which is why I highlighted that part above.

If you can't stay up to monitor, then you really can't shoot low and go to sleep. How long could you stay up with him tonight?
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Thanks for your input Julie; I feel a bit lost with the AT2 and guiding with lower numbers.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Your 52 at +12 on an AT is probably equivalent to a test in the 40's on the human meter, which is why I highlighted that part above.

If you can't stay up to monitor, then you really can't shoot low and go to sleep. How long could you stay up with him tonight?
Click to expand...

I can shoot him (not with a gun :)) at midnight. Seems is rising... Those AT2 meter are quite accurate.
 
Photorecon said:
I can shoot him (not with a gun :)) at midnight. Seems is rising... Those AT2 meter are quite accurate.
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I think you want to get him before he gets too high to take advantage of the overlap that is mentioned in the above post by Julie. How comfortable are you with shooting a lower number? @julie & punkin (ga) , with 90 being a reduction number for SLGL, does Sebastien need to wait till SK gets to that number?
 
I'm not asking how late you can give his insulin, but how many hours after the shot can you stay up to test him?

The AT2 are no more or less accurate than human meters.

The question is, how low do you feel comfortable shooting? On an AT2, the most experienced member might shoot everything over 68, if they can monitor (test) in the hours afterwards. No one could say how many hours that you might need to test, though.
 
Sebastien, it is scary when you shoot your first low number BUT remember, that you shoot low to stay low and when you shoot in lower numbers the cycle is usually very flat... and that said, you need to be up to monitor. It could be that SK will bounce to the moon before +4 but, it you shoot now you need to stay with him until you know he is safe.
 
The question also is this: if you shoot now, do you have plenty of test strips? Do you have medium carb and higher carb food and /or honey or syrup?
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
I'm not asking how late you can give his insulin, but how many hours after the shot can you stay up to test him?

The AT2 are no more or less accurate than human meters.

The question is, how low do you feel comfortable shooting? On an AT2, the most experienced member might shoot everything over 68, if they can monitor (test) in the hours afterwards. No one could say how many hours that you might need to test, though.
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I wouldn't shoot under 90. But can stay late to monitor. Let's say +7. Missing our old high but stable curve :)
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
The question also is this: if you shoot now, do you have plenty of test strips? Do you have medium carb and higher carb food and /or honey or syrup?
Click to expand...

I've all that. I can level the GL as needed wi honey or syrup (have both), Gravy food, Friskies hc, Plenty of strips.
 
Just remember if you stall until he is 90 - that may take a while - then his next shot is due 12 hours later. You may be significantly late in the morning if that happens.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Just remember if you stall until he is 90 - that may take a while - then his next shot is due 12 hours later. You may be significantly late in the morning if that happens.
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Good point. If you can stay with him until +7, why don't you shoot now? Otherwise you mess up your schedule. I will stay with you and make sure you are okay. Get a+1 to see how the cycle is going.
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Just remember if you stall until he is 90 - that may take a while - then his next shot is due 12 hours later. You may be significantly late in the morning if that happens.
Click to expand...

So the principle is to hold the shot until GL raise up to there. Holding food as well, I guess ?

That might take a while and the food intake patturn will be messed up.
 
Ok, if you want to wait for 90AT, then test every 20 or so minutes until he hits 90.

Yes, hold the food until you shoot. It goes with the shot.

Even though he just had a dose reduction to 2.25u, since you skipped last night's shot, and you are following SLGS, I would consider reducing again to 2.0u.

Right now all the tests you are getting need to pile up in the pmps column. Nothing should be to the right side of the units box until after you shoot tonight.
 
Photorecon said:
So the principle is to hold the shot until GL raise up to there. Holding food as well, I guess ?

That might take a while and the food intake patturn will be messed up.
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No, what I am saying is feed him now and shoot. Get a +1 and let's see how this cycle goes. I will stay with you .
 
What's the ''typical'' impact of a haft shot if any ? Should be something like an 18/18, it's just the
the bump is smoother and you don't skip shot ?
 
Usually a 1/2 shot is enough to interrupt what would have happened in the following cycle.

That's a very reasonable choice for you to make tonight. You still have to monitor, though, to see what the effect of the 50% dose would be.


Bobbie And Bubba said:
No, what I am saying is feed him now and shoot. Get a +1 and let's see how this cycle goes. I will stay with you .
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I apologize - I think I messed you up thinking TR because I quoted from the TR sticky on how to handle low preshots. I too was thinking he was back to following Tight Reg, Bobbie. *sigh*
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Usually a 1/2 shot is enough to interrupt what would have happened in the following cycle.

That's a very reasonable choice for you to make tonight. You still have to monitor, though, to see what the effect of the 50% dose would be.



I apologize - I think I messed you up thinking TR because I quoted from the TR sticky on how to handle low preshots. I too was thinking he was back to following Tight Reg, Bobbie. *sigh*
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That seems to be a better plan otherwise your shot schedule is messed up for tomorrow. I would opt for that choice and feed the boys and shot 1/2 your dose.
 
He's rising up, +2 115.... after a one unit shot at +1.

Strange phenomenon Small Kitty, isn't ?
3 Reductions in a week !!!

For sure there was a jammed pipe somewhere that got unjammed itself.
 
Just seeing this now. Although you have already shot a reduced dose I just need to put my 2 cents in. With those sort of low numbers on an AT2 meter I would have been very leery of shooting. The AT2 manual states that normal numbers are 4.0-9.7 (72-162 US). Considering that you are following SLGS and SK had a drop of 387 points (21.5 mmol) from AMPS to PMPS AFTER a no shot last night it is obvious that he is reacting very strongly to the insulin now. A shot of 1 unit should be safe if you are able to monitor carefully tonight. I really think a careful reweighing of the dose to use following this is in order. SK will most likely bounce after that low PMPS...which could very well have been much lower during the day. Hopefully you are home tomorrow and can continue doing regular checks on him. My concern is to keep SK safe, and prevent a hypo.


My opinion only. I just felt I had to put it out here, since I also use an AT2 meter and the "hypo alert" range is higher than on a human meter.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Just seeing this now. Although you have already shot a reduced dose I just need to put my 2 cents in. With those sort of low numbers on an AT2 meter I would have been very leery of shooting. The AT2 manual states that normal numbers are 4.0-9.7 (72-162 US). Considering that you are following SLGS and SK had a drop of 387 points (21.5 mmol) from AMPS to PMPS AFTER a no shot last night it is obvious that he is reacting very strongly to the insulin now. A shot of 1 unit should be safe if you are able to monitor carefully tonight. I really think a careful reweighing of the dose to use following this is in order. SK will most likely bounce after that low PMPS...which could very well have been much lower during the day. Hopefully you are home tomorrow and can continue doing regular checks on him. My concern is to keep SK safe, and prevent a hypo.


My opinion only. I just felt I had to put it out here, since I also use an AT2 meter and the "hypo alert" range is higher than on a human meter.
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What do you feel would be a safe dose for Sebastien to shoot tomorrow AMPS?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
What do you feel would be a safe dose for Sebastien to shoot tomorrow AMPS?
Click to expand...


That will depend on how badly SK bounces...although he certainly cleared the bounce from this morning...even with a NS last night. As well it depends on whether Sebastian is available to monitor all day in the event that SK does another major drop like this morning. I think seeing how SK responds to the 1 unit will be some of the decision-making. I can't say for sure what dose I would suggest, but just to toss it out there something like 1.5 units perhaps. The dose needs to get SK into good numbers but not drop him like a rock.

Again only my own personal opinion, but for myself after over 1 1/2 years I would not have shot the PMPS number and would have been hesitant about the +1 number with using a AT2 meter. With my kitty, who I test very often and know his patterns, I probably would have shot 1/2 of his regular dose...but he is on 6 units right now, so that would be a substantial cut-back for him. Seeing the MAJOR drop from AMPS to PMPS after a NS is scary, because we have no idea how low SK might have gone during the day.
 
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