Critical Condition

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Elena

Elena

Member Since 2015
I thought our Perkins was doing pretty good, yesterday I checked his sugar and like I said it was 152 just on diabetic food. This morning we found he didn't eat all night and he has lose stool. I called the vet's office and we brought him in. The vet tec said we should have him put to sleep even before the doctor looked at him. We said no. The doctor came in and said he doesn't look good......I ask about ketoacidosis, he said it could be but we would not now until they run blood test. They sent the blood to the lab. He said he needed to be at a 24 hour hospital. We told him that was not a option, if we had the money we would do it but we don't have that kind of money. So he gave me IV fluids to give at home 100 ml every day, he gave us Levemir 1 unit twice a day. They did a urine culture too. Right now Perkins is not eating, we are going to the food store to get him tuna and sardines. We are in total shock. We have been here before with a cat who was critical with liver failure and Jesus stepped in and healed him. We are hoping for that again, but we are scared.
 
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Sorry to hear Perkins is in tough shape. Did they give you any type of numbers from the bloodwork today? That is pretty out of like for a tech to tell you to euthanize a pet before a vet has even looked at him.

If it is DKA, managing at home is really tough. They are really sick and usually need critical care around the clock with bloodwork monitoring. The key ingredients to end up in DKA is not enough insulin, not enough food, and infection or inflammation somewhere. Getting food and fluids into Perkins right now is really important, whatever you can get him to eat. Sometimes baby food is tempting for them, meat with nothing else in it so there is no onion or garlic.
 
Elena, I'm so sorry Perkins isn't doing well. It's important for him to eat. You can try some baby food, just make sure it is all meat, no onions or garlic. You may need to feed him using a syringe, I linked a video showing how. Have you gotten any glucose readings? Please keep us posted.
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
Sorry to hear Perkins is in tough shape. Did they give you any type of numbers from the bloodwork today? That is pretty out of like for a tech to tell you to euthanize a pet before a vet has even looked at him.

If it is DKA, managing at home is really tough. They are really sick and usually need critical care around the clock with bloodwork monitoring. The key ingredients to end up in DKA is not enough insulin, not enough food, and infection or inflammation somewhere. Getting food and fluids into Perkins right now is really important, whatever you can get him to eat. Sometimes baby food is tempting for them, meat with nothing else in it so there is no onion or garlic.
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I think the vet tec said that because of Perkins legs, the diabetes has caused his legs to be weak and thin, he can't use a litter box he has to use bed pads and the urine has burned his skin so his skin was pretty red. Perkins doesn't like us the touch his legs so I didn't know his skin was so red, we try to clean him the best we can. I guess that is why the tec said what he said but we put some Cortizone 10 cream on him I am sure that will help.
 
Sharon14 said:
Elena, I'm so sorry Perkins isn't doing well. It's important for him to eat. You can try some baby food, just make sure it is all meat, no onions or garlic. You may need to feed him using a syringe, I linked a video showing how. Have you gotten any glucose readings? Please keep us posted.
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Thanks you so much, I did give him some chicken, he ate it after I put some in his mouth.
 
I would think they would have been able to check for ketones with a urine test strip or blood ketone test strip.
Do you have ketone test strips at home? I think almost every pharmacy carries them in the diabetic section. If you don't have any, can you run out and buy some? I hope he doesn't have ketones.
Water and food and insulin are very important, if he has DKA. I hope you can assist feed (video above). Cats can not go very long without eating.
 
Dyana said:
I would think they would have been able to check for ketones with a urine test strip or blood ketone test strip.
Do you have ketone test strips at home? I think almost every pharmacy carries them in the diabetic section. If you don't have any, can you run out and buy some? I hope he doesn't have ketones.
Water and food and insulin are very important, if he has DKA. I hope you can assist feed (video above). Cats can not go very long without eating.
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I didn't know they had ketone test strips, but I guess they didn't have them other wise I would hope they would have tested him, I asked for a syringe with a long tip on it for force feeding and they didn't have that either. They gave me a short tip one. I think all his blood test and urine will be back tomorrow. Me and my mom are going to the office to pick up copies so I can see them for myself, they are open on Sunday . Perkins is eating but only regular canned cat food. He will not eat his diabetes food, but at this point I am glad he is eating anything. He is not drinking water, I do have the IV fluids but I know cats hate how that feels going in so I will keep a eye on how bouncy his skin is to see if he is dehydrated.
 
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Sharon14 said:
Glad he's eating! Will he eat the food if you add some water to it?
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Thanks, I did try adding water but he doesn't eat it after I put the water in, I guess he doesn't like it watered done. I was thinking about getting some lactaid milk
 
When you can, pick up some ketone test strips at the pharmacy. They're cheap and can be a life saver!
 
Sharon14 said:
When you can, pick up some ketone test strips at the pharmacy. They're cheap and can be a life saver!
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I will call the Pharmacy tomorrow to see if they have them and then I will pick them up. He only uses bed pads so I will have to squeeze the urine into a container to check it. You would think the vet would have told me about this, but he is a older gentleman and maybe he forgot but I sure wish we could have know when we were at the office.
 
If you have a Walmart near you, they have ketone strips. My vet checked Colin for ketones, but didn't tell me to check or how important it is. I learned that here. Is there anyway to put some plastic over the pads to catch the urine?
 
Sharon14 said:
If you have a Walmart near you, they have ketone strips. My vet checked Colin for ketones, but didn't tell me to check or how important it is. I learned that here. Is there anyway to put some plastic over the pads to catch the urine?
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I will try, plus sometimes he going on the floor so I guess I could just put the test strip right on the floor over the urine.
 
I am hoping he doesn't have diabetic ketoacidosis, I just looked up the symptoms and vomiting is one of them and he is not throwing up at all.
 
Loose stool and not eating can be a sign of obstruction. The body tries to clear the blockage by adding water to the stool, and this can leak around an intestinal blockage. A 5 minute x-ray would be able to diagnose this. Also, pancreatitis or liver issues can have similar symptoms, they would see these on blood work.
 
I don't know much about DKA but I do remember reading a thread of someone who treated at home.... it was not easy but they did it.
I thought it was Small kitty @Photorecon but not positive??
I know you don't know if it is DKA but just in case maybe they can help....:bighug:
 
Went through it, DKA, needs some organization and determination but I was able to do it at home.
I was not panicked, just concerned and in the point of decision, go ahead or not. Decided to go ahead.

Just need to throw has much stuff inside Kitty as you can, subcutaneous liquid injection every 8h (for me),
feeding at you own judgement by syringe with liquefied food, feeding with water. Ater testing every 3h Small Kitty
GL came back below ''HI'', he was able to switch to eating by himself (liquefied food). This lasted
something like 18h if not more but eventually, few days after he was back to ''normal''. This extra feeding
from all side thrown the bad stuff out. I'm no vet or scientist but it's what I understand.

No worry, just need a vet ready to help or lots of money to let him do it for you. Vet will use fast acting
insulin to bring SL down faster; what I did in that matter (insulin), dont remember.

See post''At home E/R Ketoacidosis crisis care success ?? ''

and result :
''Never give up !!''
in my content.

Keep it easy, your stress will impact you Kitty in a bad way.

Sébastien
 
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Ho, also, you might want to go to Walmart and ask for the Freestyle Precision Neo Ketone meter (20$) (for human).
You'll probably need to keep an eye on that. (IF DKA, is in the game). You need a solid drop of
blood for this thing to work but it works for pet.

300 and below means no ketone for pet, there is study on that. Mine of Kitty 54 and ketostrick show nothing.
(http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm).

Ketostrix are as good, just need to gather none contaminated urine, need timing and luck.

It can be done, keep on !
 
It's almost 3am and I can't sleep. The vet called around midnight because he knew we were very worried. The blood test came back. He said Perkins white blood cell count was 39000 and his urine shows ketones +1. He said that was not to bad. His potassium was low. We are waiting for the urine culture to to come back to see if there is a infection, he thinks there is. We are going over to talk to the vet tomorrow. Perkins is not doing any pooping. He tried tonight but nothing came out. God help us.
 
Elena how is Perkins this AM? Be sure to tell the vet about him straining to poop and not producing. An obstruction can be serious but treatable. Sending prayers for a positive vet visit today. Let us know what he says.
 
Sharon14 said:
Elena how is Perkins this AM? Be sure to tell the vet about him straining to poop and not producing. An obstruction can be serious but treatable. Sending prayers for a positive vet visit today. Let us know what he says.
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I think he is doing better. He went to the bathroom this morning. We went to the vet to pick up copies of the tests and I guess heard the vet wrong on the phone because Perking White blood cell count is 33000 I thought he said 39000. Anyway we came in for the potassium and he gave us a new bag of IV fluids that has potassium in it. They thought we were bring Perkins too but he was just there on Friday for complete blood and urinalysis with culture. He hates going I don't know why they thought he was coming to. I gave Perkins the new IV right behind the neck but he growled the how time. I know it must burn putting that under the skin. I couldn't get any blood from his ear today, I stuck him 5 time and he didn't like it. We bought a new meter, I think the little red free one from publix is not accurate. The vet said he would call us as soon as the culture results come in. He wanted to test Perkins for Feline leukemia, we said we wanted to know the results from the culture first. I didn't notice on blood work when we were at the office but Perkins Monocyte count is 3033 the highest it should be is 530 , when the vet calls I will ask him about that. Well that is the latest.
 
Photorecon said:
Ho, also, you might want to go to Walmart and ask for the Freestyle Precision Neo Ketone meter (20$) (for human).
You'll probably need to keep an eye on that. (IF DKA, is in the game). You need a solid drop of
blood for this thing to work but it works for pet.

300 and below means no ketone for pet, there is study on that. Mine of Kitty 54 and ketostrick show nothing.
(http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm).

Ketostrix are as good, just need to gather none contaminated urine, need timing and luck.

It can be done, keep on !
Click to expand...
thanks
 
Photorecon said:
Ho, also, you might want to go to Walmart and ask for the Freestyle Precision Neo Ketone meter (20$) (for human).
You'll probably need to keep an eye on that. (IF DKA, is in the game). You need a solid drop of
blood for this thing to work but it works for pet.

300 and below means no ketone for pet, there is study on that. Mine of Kitty 54 and ketostrick show nothing.
(http://www.felinediabetes.com/bg-test.htm).

Ketostrix are as good, just need to gather none contaminated urine, need timing and luck.

It can be done, keep on !
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Thanks, I'll check it out at walmart
 
So Perkins is doing much better today. For the first time in a long time he cleaned is stomach. But there is something strange, I'm not really sure what got Perkins to stop eating in the first place. I was giving him as much wet DM food as he wanted, my mom said I might be feeding him to much. When I checked his sugar the night before he got sick it was 152 with out any insulin. Then he stopped eating. Went to the vet got IV and insulin but he still didn't want to eat much so I started giving him regular wet food and insulin and today he is much better. I can't help but wonder if the DM didn't agree with him. He is back on the DM today along with some regular food. I gave him some regular food at 6pm and then checked his sugar at 8:30 and it was 156 on one meter and 160 on the other. I can't help but wonder if a cat eats mostly protein can that cause DKA.
 
Glad to hear Perkins is doing better! Lots of cats don't like DM food. I started out feeding Colin the DM food and after a few cans he stopped eating it. I switched to feeding Fancy Feast, Sheba, and Wellness and he hasn't skipped a meal since.
 
Sharon14 said:
Glad to hear Perkins is doing better! Lots of cats don't like DM food. I started out feeding Colin the DM food and after a few cans he stopped eating it. I switched to feeding Fancy Feast, Sheba, and Wellness and he hasn't skipped a meal since.
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Thanks, I might have to switch Perkins to the Fancy Feast too, I am just going to have to keep a eye on his PH because he has been blocked before and DM was for bladder problems too.
 
What food was he on when he became blocked? Colin had several bouts with cystitis and blockages when he was younger. He's had no problems on the Fancy Feast, and I think Wellness is supposed to help with that too.
 
Sharon14 said:
What food was he on when he became blocked? Colin had several bouts with cystitis and blockages when he was younger. He's had no problems on the Fancy Feast, and I think Wellness is supposed to help with that too.
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It was one of the cheap brands, I can't remember which one, it might have been cat chow. I think the main thing is the PH, back when Perkins was blocked his PH was 8 which is very alkaline. Now he is 6 which is acidic and where he needs to be so I am so scared to give him food that is not for the bladder but what can i do, he got to eat.
 
Even though his blood sugar was lower, he still formed ketones. This can be an indicator that he actually needs some insulin for his metabolism. Insulin allows cells to use energy, store energy, and also has some influence on the regulation of appetite. Blood sugar is just one indicator. Also, the low potassium can REALLY slow down muscular function, especially in the gut. This can cause poor appetite, constipation, and if severe, vomiting. It's something to keep an eye on if he looks lethargic. You may have to supplement and get potassium blood tests until it stabilizes. It's pretty common in diabetics.
 
Meya14 said:
Even though his blood sugar was lower, he still formed ketones. This can be an indicator that he actually needs some insulin for his metabolism. Insulin allows cells to use energy, store energy, and also has some influence on the regulation of appetite. Blood sugar is just one indicator. Also, the low potassium can REALLY slow down muscular function, especially in the gut. This can cause poor appetite, constipation, and if severe, vomiting. It's something to keep an eye on if he looks lethargic. You may have to supplement and get potassium blood tests until it stabilizes. It's pretty common in diabetics.
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Thank you so much for telling me, I was wondering why he still had ketones when his blood sugar was ok.The doctor did give us some potassium powder and a IV with potassium. I don't think he needs the IV because he is drinking ok now.
 
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I use the Fancy Feast Turkey and Giblets Classic and the Sheba Chicken Pate. The Sheba is a little cheaper and seems to work just fine.
 
I have what I hope is not a final update on Perkins. We called the vet in the morning wanting to know what his urine culture showed. We waited all day even though we had to go to the store. Finally at 4pm we said we can't wait any more and what to know what to give perkins for the infection. The receptionist said the culture show no infection. The vet wants Perkins tested for feline leukemia virus. I said he was tested as a baby and was negative and has never gone outside. The other cat we have also tested negative when we brought him in the house. Then she says "maybe it's cancer that is causing the high white blood cell count they get it at Perkins age" which is 9. I said I want to talk to the vet, she says ok I'll give him the message even though she spoke to us. Really????? We spent 700 dollars on our charge card over the past 2 months we can't afford and now we are just going to give up with out a diagnose. We are not sure what to do now.
 
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I would never, ever give up without some sort of diagnosis. While cancer can occur at any age, Perkins really isn't old and it could even more easily be an infection that hasn't been pinned down yet. At the very least, if the vet is telling you you're into last attempt territory (which I'm honestly not convinced of), a long course of antibiotics wouldn't hurt anything - there's really nothing left to lose if the vet has nothing else to try (though I'd be inclined to look for a second opinion if that is the case as it doesn't seem as though they've tried anything much at all at this point) - and might make things a whole lot better.
 
manxcat419 said:
I would never, ever give up without some sort of diagnosis. While cancer can occur at any age, Perkins really isn't old and it could even more easily be an infection that hasn't been pinned down yet. At the very least, if the vet is telling you you're into last attempt territory (which I'm honestly not convinced of), a long course of antibiotics wouldn't hurt anything - there's really nothing left to lose if the vet has nothing else to try (though I'd be inclined to look for a second opinion if that is the case as it doesn't seem as though they've tried anything much at all at this point) - and might make things a whole lot better.
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The vet called last night and wanted to give him Convenia we didn't want to do that because it stays in the body and it there is a reaction you really cant do anything. So he said we could try amoxicillin again but the biomox gave him diarrhea 3 weeks ago so we used Zeniquin but that didn't do much good because his WBC went from 13000 to 33000. He said "when the lady who picks up the phone said cancer she meant FeLV", but that's not really what she meant but why argue. So now we have to find the right antibiotic.
 
Were you giving probiotics the last time your were giving antibiotics? They might help with the diarrhea and tummy upset.
You need to give them several hours after the antibiotics.
 
With high WBC first thought should always be infection. It is the most common cause. If signs of infection aren't present, it still warrants a trial of antibiotics to see if it improves. Considering your cat had antibiotics recently, and has not improved, and considering that you have had diarrhea with possible constipation recently, I'd talk to your vet if they think infectious colitis might be an issue. There are antibiotics for this that may be worth a trial (flagyl).

High eosinophils aren't always cancer (FeLV). They happen commonly with food allergies, parasitic worm infestations, and GI bacterial or fungal infections among other things.

Edit: Also rereading previous posts - Did you get an abdominal x-ray done?? When a cat I used to have ate string, she got obstructed, and had increased WBC and CBC issues from the inflammation in the intestines.
 
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Elena said:
. Then she says "maybe it's cancer that is causing the high white blood cell count they get it at Perkins age" which is 9. I said I want to talk to the vet, she says ok I'll give him the message even though she spoke to us. Really????? We spent 700 dollars on our charge card over the past 2 months we can't afford and now we are just going to give up with out a diagnose. We are not sure what to do now.
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I would demand to talk to the vet again and discuss with them that the receptionist should NOT be giving out any diagnosis, let alone a cancer diagnosis. WTH?!?!

Whether you go to a different vet, or with the current one, I think you need some stomach imaging done. Xrays and ultrasound in my opinion. As much as you don't want to think about it, stomach lymphoma is one of the most common cancers to occur in cats and age doesn't seem to matter. My ChrisFarley was only 7-8. I think that b@st@rd cancer took 3 other cats on the board about the same time it took Chris. The vets kept missing the diagnosis by assuming other things they more commonly diagnose in diabetic cats. Hopefully its not that. But I think ruling it out sooner rather than later would be a good thing.
 
Meya14 said:
With high WBC first thought should always be infection. It is the most common cause. If signs of infection aren't present, it still warrants a trial of antibiotics to see if it improves. Considering your cat had antibiotics recently, and has not improved, and considering that you have had diarrhea with possible constipation recently, I'd talk to your vet if they think infectious colitis might be an issue. There are antibiotics for this that may be worth a trial (flagyl).

High eosinophils aren't always cancer (FeLV). They happen commonly with food allergies, parasitic worm infestations, and GI bacterial or fungal infections among other things.

Edit: Also rereading previous posts - Did you get an abdominal x-ray done?? When a cat I used to have ate string, she got obstructed, and had increased WBC and CBC issues from the inflammation in the intestines.
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I'll have to ask the vet again about what antibiotics we should have.....it's like pulling teeth over there. They have no problem asking for money but trying to get answers is another story. I think they are getting annoyed with us but if they just gave us a diagnosis we wouldn't have to keep calling. The vet never mentioned a x-ray he is in his 80's I think, so like someone here said he is old school. Also right now we really can't afford their price for x rays and even if we could I'm sure getting the results would be like pulling teeth too. We keep putting up with this because he did gave us a free bottle of Levemir, he said a lady gets it from her doctor and brings it in. We are hoping he will give us another one, if he won't then we will stop going there. I really want to take him to a different vet, there is a low cost one but it far from were we live and my mom is worried he will over heat in the car because we have no AC, I was thinking about putting some ice around his carrier to keep him cool.
 
Melanie and Smokey said:
I would demand to talk to the vet again and discuss with them that the receptionist should NOT be giving out any diagnosis, let alone a cancer diagnosis. WTH?!?!

Whether you go to a different vet, or with the current one, I think you need some stomach imaging done. Xrays and ultrasound in my opinion. As much as you don't want to think about it, stomach lymphoma is one of the most common cancers to occur in cats and age doesn't seem to matter. My ChrisFarley was only 7-8. I think that b@st@rd cancer took 3 other cats on the board about the same time it took Chris. The vets kept missing the diagnosis by assuming other things they more commonly diagnose in diabetic cats. Hopefully its not that. But I think ruling it out sooner rather than later would be a good thing.
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I'm so sorry to here about you beloved ChrisFarley. We understand how you feel about cancer, we lost our beloved dog to it.
 
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Dyana said:
Were you giving probiotics the last time your were giving antibiotics? They might help with the diarrhea and tummy upset.
You need to give them several hours after the antibiotics.
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No we didn't give probiotics I will have to call the vet and ask about that. I think they are getting annoyed with us because we keep calling but if they just gave us a proper diagnose and treatment we wouldn't have to keep calling.
 
I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your dog and cat. That is so sad. I feel for you.

If you go to another vet, you can use bags of frozen peas in the carrier to help to keep Perkins cool, and try to schedule an appointment for 1st thing in the morning.

The probiotics help because the antibiotics kill all the bacteria, both the bad ones and the good ones. The probiotics help to put some of the good bacteria back in the gut. Hopefully your vet will agree and let you know how much and what kind to give and when.

Good luck getting your questions answered.
 
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