Diabetes and Cancer

[Elena]

Hi again everyone, I have posted 3 questions on here and I'm sorry but I need help with one more question please, me and my mom have no one else we can ask. I will try to make it short. Back in Aug Perkins was diagnosed with diabetes. The vet there at the time said he didn't believe in insulin if a cat stays under 400. But Perkins legs got weak. We went in for more blood work and urinalysis with culture last week. The urine showed ketones so now he is getting Levemir one unit twice daily. But the thing is he also has a very high white blood cell count of 33,000, Reticulocyte 53, Neutrophil 29016, and Monocyte 3033. The vet thought it was a UTI so we called all day trying to get the vet on the phone to find out the culture results and couldn't speak to him, so finally we called back and the receptionist went in and talked to him and he said no growth on the culture and said may be FeLV, I said that was not possible Perkins was tested as a baby and was negative and so is our other cat. So she says maybe it is cancer, they can get it at that age. I said I want to talk to the vet , she says ok I'll tell him even though I spoke with you. What does she think, we are going to spend all this money on tests and now give up. The vet still hasn't called. We told them we don't have much more left on our charge card. I would hate to think that is why they don't want to talk to us anymore. Here is my question, has anyone here had a cat with these blood values and it has been cancer?

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I am still tying to understand a cat with 400 BG not being a diabetic
Do you have another vet in the area? PLEASE try to find another vet
I am not a expert and I will tag a few but with BG being so high for that long I think it could be many things....
I will tag some experts but I don't see any online at this moment but they will get the tag...praying for you and your kitty
@Wendy&Neko,
@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey ,
@julie & punkin (ga) ,
@Marje and Gracie ,
@manxcat419

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

BUMP

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey
she is back on

 

[Elena]

I am still tying to understand a cat with 400 BG not being a diabetic
Do you have another vet in the area? PLEASE try to find another vet
I am not a expert and I will tag a few but with BG being so high for that long I think it could be many things....
I will tag some experts but I don't see any online at this moment but they will get the tag...praying for you and your kitty
@Wendy&Neko,
@Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey ,
@julie & punkin (ga) ,
@Marje and Gracie ,
@manxcat419

I know what you mean, the vet that told us that has left and started his own practice. He did tell us Perkins had diabetes but in his opinion a cat can live a healthy life as long as the sugar stayed under 400. We shouldn't have gone along with that but we were so glad we didn't need to stick him with needles we just accepted it.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I think I would look for another vet, if only to get a second opinion. As for "not believing in insulin", will that vet treat your kitty for free when his kidneys give out because he was so high so long? Did he treat the DKA for free,too? He should have. I think I'd report him.

Are you testing at home? If so, how often? Can you share with us the readings you've been getting, please? If you aren't testing, I urge you to do so immediately (I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you said your vet told you it wasn't necessary to test). It can be very dangerous to give insulin to a cat without testing first. We can help you get started with that, too.

The weak back legs are probably diabetic neuropathy. Are they still weak? If so, you might want to start him on a B12 supplement. Most of us here give Zobaline.

I don't know a lot about blood values. That's Marje's forte. I'll see if I can find her for you.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I know what you mean, the vet that told us that has left and started his own practice. He did tell us Perkins had diabetes but in his opinion a cat can live a healthy life as long as the sugar stayed under 400. We shouldn't have gone along with that but we were so glad we didn't need to stick him with needles we just accepted it.

I understand not wanting to "stick him with needles" but many cats go into remission especially if caught early. They have very few pain receptors in the ears for testing and the insulin needle in teeny-my cat doesn't even know he got a shot.... I think you got misleading information.
Diabetes is not what causes most cats to have shortened lives it is the uncontrolled diabetes that leads to the other problems. BG controls SO much the body especially kidneys. I hope someone more knowledgable comes by....

 

[Elena]

I think I would look for another vet, if only to get a second opinion. As for "not believing in insulin", will that vet treat your kitty for free when his kidneys give out because he was so high so long? Did he treat the DKA for free,too? He should have. I think I'd report him.

Are you testing at home? If so, how often? Can you share with us the readings you've been getting, please? If you aren't testing, I urge you to do so immediately (I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if you said your vet told you it wasn't necessary to test). It can be very dangerous to give insulin to a cat without testing first. We can help you get started with that, too.

The weak back legs are probably diabetic neuropathy. Are they still weak? If so, you might want to start him on a B12 supplement. Most of us here give Zobaline.

I don't know a lot about blood values. That's Marje's forte. I'll see if I can find her for you.

Thank you so much for your help, we do have a different vet now the one who told us that left. Our vet now has him on insulin now but never told us to test sugar at home, I think they wanted us to keep bringing him in so they can charge us. I found out about testing at home here. I tested his sugar last night and it was 156 on one meter and 160 on the other one.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

How many hours after his shot did you get those test results? Levemir is a great insulin for cats, so you've gotten some good advice from whoever prescribed that for you.

I hate needles, but I didn't think twice about learning how to test punkin's blood sugar (from people here) and how to give him his insulin. That is the only thing that keeps a diabetic cat safe and alive.

We use a spreadsheet here to record blood sugar tests. It's an invaluable tool in being able to see what's going on inside a cat's body. The tests are really important, but the context of the tests in comparison to each other tells us a lot. That's probably a little confusing, but the idea is that we need to see a few days of tests to be able to comment on how the dose is doing.

I'd highly encourage you to get one set up and put in his dose and record the tests you get. Here is a link to directions on how to set up the spreadsheet. If you have any trouble, just ask and someone can help you.

For this week, I'd work first on getting the spreadsheet going and hometesting. Then we can deal with the abnormal labs.

You're on the right track - great job advocating for your little buddy and getting going with his insulin. We're glad to have you here!

 

[Elena]

I think the office staff knows the first vet was wrong, we are at the same office just a different vet. To tell the truth because of the first vet I really don't trust the office to tell us everything, one vet won't go against another. There is a lower priced vet but it is very far and our car had no AC. My mom is worried he will over heat. I said maybe we should pack his carrier in ice to keep him cool.

 

[Elena]

How many hours after his shot did you get those test results? Levemir is a great insulin for cats, so you've gotten some good advice from whoever prescribed that for you.

I hate needles, but I didn't think twice about learning how to test punkin's blood sugar (from people here) and how to give him his insulin. That is the only thing that keeps a diabetic cat safe and alive.

We use a spreadsheet here to record blood sugar tests. It's an invaluable tool in being able to see what's going on inside a cat's body. The tests are really important, but the context of the tests in comparison to each other tells us a lot. That's probably a little confusing, but the idea is that we need to see a few days of tests to be able to comment on how the dose is doing.

I'd highly encourage you to get one set up and put in his dose and record the tests you get. Here is a link to directions on how to set up the spreadsheet. If you have any trouble, just ask and someone can help you.

For this week, I'd work first on getting the spreadsheet going and hometesting. Then we can deal with the abnormal labs.

You're on the right track - great job advocating for your little buddy and getting going with his insulin. We're glad to have you here!

Thanks I'm glad to be here, me and my mom wouldn't know what to do without this website we would be all alone. I gave him his shot at 1pm and checked his sugar at 6pm .

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

ok - that's good to know. With Lev, it usually starts acting (lowering blood sugar, which is called onset) about 4 hours after the shot and in many cats, reaches its lowest point about 8 hours after the shot. You checked at what we would call +5, or 5 hours after the shot. He may very well have continued to drop after that point.

Cats vary on this however. This is by the manual and many kitties don't read the manual!

One more thought - now that you are testing, you may test and get high numbers. Not all high numbers mean a cat needs more insulin. Looking at that 156, I'd say he either is at a good dose or might even need less. Levemir dosing is decided by how LOW the dose can take the cat's blood sugar, not the high numbers. So don't see a high number and increase his dose. There are 2 circumstances where high numbers are common - they pass on their own as you just hold the dose. New Dose Wonkiness and Bouncing are both common in many cats.

I'd encourage you to not increase his dose unless someone with experience with Lantus or Lev (both are depot insulins) looks at his spreadsheet and agrees he needs an increase. This is an important point that many people don't realize - many high numbers are transitory and will come down on their own.

You've got a wealth of information here on this site, so I hope you'll get the spreadsheet going and then come over and post on the Lantus/Levemir insulin support group. We do ask people to have the spreadsheet set up before moving there, but that's where you'll find all Lantus or Lev users and folks can teach you how to use Lev safely in Perkins.

 

[Elena]

ok - that's good to know. With Lev, it usually starts acting (lowering blood sugar, which is called onset) about 4 hours after the shot and in many cats, reaches its lowest point about 8 hours after the shot. You checked at what we would call +5, or 5 hours after the shot. He may very well have continued to drop after that point.

Cats vary on this however. This is by the manual and many kitties don't read the manual!

One more thought - now that you are testing, you may test and get high numbers. Not all high numbers mean a cat needs more insulin. Looking at that 156, I'd say he either is at a good dose or might even need less. Levemir dosing is decided by how LOW the dose can take the cat's blood sugar, not the high numbers. So don't see a high number and increase his dose. There are 2 circumstances where high numbers are common - they pass on their own as you just hold the dose. New Dose Wonkiness and Bouncing are both common in many cats.

I'd encourage you to not increase his dose unless someone with experience with Lantus or Lev (both are depot insulins) looks at his spreadsheet and agrees he needs an increase. This is an important point that many people don't realize - many high numbers are transitory and will come down on their own.

You've got a wealth of information here on this site, so I hope you'll get the spreadsheet going and then come over and post on the Lantus/Levemir insulin support group. We do ask people to have the spreadsheet set up before moving there, but that's where you'll find all Lantus or Lev users and folks can teach you how to use Lev safely in Perkins.

Thank you so much for the info, I will try to do the spreadsheet, but Perkins really acted like I hurt him when I poked his ear, but maybe he will get used to it. I think I poked right through his ear.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

You probably did poke through it. When you're starting out there aren't many capillaries in the ears. You can poke and poke and not get blood. It's very annoying. However, as you poke it stimulates the growth of new capillaries, so your poking is still helping. In about 2 weeks more capillaries will have grown and then you'll get blood pretty much every time after that.

Here are links to shooting and testing tips:
Testing & Shooting Tips: here and here ; Dosing with Calipers; Preventing Overdoses

You can ignore the dosing with calipers link for the moment, but the others will likely be helpful.

One tube of Neosporin ointment with pain relief will likely last you a couple of years. It's great for taking out the owies from the poke - you don't really need the neosporin part, but the pain relief is great. Punkin got poked as many as 22 times one day, always at least 5 times, for 2.5 years and his ear looked like new. Always give Perkins a treat when you test him and he'll get used to it very quickly.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

Also there is a picture in there of where to poke. I think it only hurts if you go through cartilage or hit the vein. Take a look at those links and you'll see the best spot to poke.

 

[manxcat419]

Consistent readings in the 400 range would definitely indicate diabetes. 400 is well above the renal threshold, so I'm not sure how or why your old vet thought it was OK to leave a cat running in that range permanently. I'm very glad the new vet reversed that decision and got you started with insulin. Julie has given you some great information already. Do you, by any chance, have the full blood work results? They often make more sense if you can look at everything all together rather than just one small part of the results.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

here is a good picture of the sweet spot-

 

[Elena]

Consistent readings in the 400 range would definitely indicate diabetes. 400 is well above the renal threshold, so I'm not sure how or why your old vet thought it was OK to leave a cat running in that range permanently. I'm very glad the new vet reversed that decision and got you started with insulin. Julie has given you some great information already. Do you, by any chance, have the full blood work results? They often make more sense if you can look at everything all together rather than just one small part of the results.

I do have the full test results.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I have started putting a very thin layer of ointment on Dres ear before the poke and it really seems to lessen the poke of the needle... sometimes he looks at me like he is waiting for the poke

 

[Marje and Gracie]

If you need help or need me to do the SS for you, then send me a private message. To do that, click on"Marje and Gracie" under the photo to the left and click on "Start a conversation".

May Ann is right that it does help to look at the labs all together. However, the elevated values for WBCs, monocytes, and neutrophils indicate there is some inflammation or infection going on. If the reticulocytes are high, which they are, it typically means the kitty is anemic. Thus it is important to see all his labs.

 

[Elena]

Also there is a picture in there of where to poke. I think it only hurts if you go through cartilage or hit the vein. Take a look at those links and you'll see the best spot to poke.

I misspoke, I gave perkins his Levemir at 1pm then 6pm I gave him his favorite food, I didn't check his sugar until 8pm and it was 156 on one meter 160 on the other. Does this make a difference?

 

[Elena]

Consistent readings in the 400 range would definitely indicate diabetes. 400 is well above the renal threshold, so I'm not sure how or why your old vet thought it was OK to leave a cat running in that range permanently. I'm very glad the new vet reversed that decision and got you started with insulin. Julie has given you some great information already. Do you, by any chance, have the full blood work results? They often make more sense if you can look at everything all together rather than just one small part of the results.

I think I know why the vet did this, but I can't say online because I can't be sure, but God knows the truth on why he did it and I guess we have to leave it in His hands.

 

[Elena]

I have started putting a very thin layer of ointment on Dres ear before the poke and it really seems to lessen the poke of the needle... sometimes he looks at me like he is waiting for the poke

I think I better use the Neosporin for pain, I just hope he doesn't clean his ear and eat it.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I misspoke, I gave perkins his Levemir at 1pm then 6pm I gave him his favorite food, I didn't check his sugar until 8pm and it was 156 on one meter 160 on the other. Does this make a difference?

I do not use Lev but I am pretty sure it is given on a 12/12 schedule... @Doodles & Karen

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

I do not use Lev but I am pretty sure it is given on a 12/12 schedule... @Doodles & Karen

I mis read this-- I thought you gave a dose at 1pm and 6pm--I got scared--sorry!

 

[manxcat419]

I think I know why the vet did this, but I can't say online because I can't be sure,

I think the important thing is that you have insulin now and you're giving the shots. You can't change what has already happened, but now you can make sure his glucose is at a better level moving forward.

I do have the full test results.

Once you have the spreadsheet up and running, there is a tab on it for Lab results. If you can fill them in on there, that would give a much better overall picture of what's going on. As Marje says, the WBC count is indicative of infection or inflammation, but the full set of results would really help.

 

[Elena]

I mis read this-- I thought you gave a dose at 1pm and 6pm--I got scared--sorry!

lol, it's ok, I been posting a lot of info, you guys are great. God bless you all

 

[Elena]

I think the important thing is that you have insulin now and you're giving the shots. You can't change what has already happened, but now you can make sure his glucose is at a better level moving forward.


Once you have the spreadsheet up and running, there is a tab on it for Lab results. If you can fill them in on there, that would give a much better overall picture of what's going on. As Marje says, the WBC count is indicative of infection or inflammation, but the full set of results would really help.

ok thanks, I will try to set it up right away.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

I misspoke, I gave perkins his Levemir at 1pm then 6pm I gave him his favorite food, I didn't check his sugar until 8pm and it was 156 on one meter 160 on the other. Does this make a difference?

Yes, a little bit. That means the 156 test was at +7, or 7 hours after the shot. So if he was having a "typical" cycle on Lev, it may have been closer to the nadir or low point of the cycle.

But all numbers mean something in relation to each other - if he was 500 when you gave him his shot that would tell us something different than if he was 100. I know you're just starting testing and I'm not criticizing at all, just explaining that one number by itself doesn't tell us too much. As you get more tests in, things will become clearer.

Sometimes I use the metaphor of a jigsaw puzzle with new members. Think of doing one - if you have a sprinkling of puzzle pieces all over the puzzle, you can get a very good idea of what the picture is. If you only have edge pieces, or only have a stripe down the middle, there could be an elephant hiding in your puzzle and you wouldn't know it.

Over time the tests you get will make a clear picture of what is going on with Perkin's diabetes. You're on the right track to help him now! Great job!!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Elena, I would also encourage you to try to get a test each time before giving the insulin. We call it t/f/s for test/feed/shoot. You want to withhold food for two hours before the shot, so that the test results you get is not influenced by the food. The number you get before the shot is not the one you base your dose on, but it lets you know it is safe to shoot - that the BG isn't too low. Then you feed after you test, and once you can see he will eat, go ahead and give the shot.

Warming the ear is a good way to help it bleed easier. You'll see that in the link Julie gave you. You can get Perkins used to being tested and having his ears handled by rubbing his ears every so often, then give him a treat when he lets you. Pretty soon he'll associate your messing with his ears with getting a treat. Diabetic friendly treats are freeze dried meat bits or plain, boiled chicken.

What are you feeding Perkins? Canned or dry? If you need ideas for low carb canned food, check out Dr. Lisa's Food Chart.

There is a lot of info in the "stickies" at the top of the Lantus and Levemir page. So much that it can be very overwhelming. Try to read some every day, starting with the first one, and ask questions when you don't understand something. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask! You will find there are a lot of very nice, compassionate, experienced and generous people in L&L Land (Lantus & Levemir Land).

We are so glad you found us!! I hope we can help you, your mom and your sweet Perkins.

 

[scoobydoox]

@Elena what state/city are you in? There may be someone on the forum in your area that can recommend a better vet for you. Sorry to hear everything you guys have one through with Perkins. Lots of good info posted. Diet can really help bring down his bg# to. Read through this its made for vets and what they should of been telling you http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/17/3/235.full.pdf+html
The only thing you need from the vet is the prescription for lantus and then you can buy a box of 5 pens that would last appx a year from here https://rxcanada4less.com/index.html for a lot cheaper. Also you can buy needles online or at local pharmacy for a lot cheaper(depending on where you live you may or may not need a script from the vet). A meter, supplies and food I get all of it at walmart for cheaper than anywhere else. Lot of diet info on here http://www.catinfo.org/

 

[Elena]

Elena, I would also encourage you to try to get a test each time before giving the insulin. We call it t/f/s for test/feed/shoot. You want to withhold food for two hours before the shot, so that the test results you get is not influenced by the food. The number you get before the shot is not the one you base your dose on, but it lets you know it is safe to shoot - that the BG isn't too low. Then you feed after you test, and once you can see he will eat, go ahead and give the shot.

Warming the ear is a good way to help it bleed easier. You'll see that in the link Julie gave you. You can get Perkins used to being tested and having his ears handled by rubbing his ears every so often, then give him a treat when he lets you. Pretty soon he'll associate your messing with his ears with getting a treat. Diabetic friendly treats are freeze dried meat bits or plain, boiled chicken.

What are you feeding Perkins? Canned or dry? If you need ideas for low carb canned food, check out Dr. Lisa's Food Chart.

There is a lot of info in the "stickies" at the top of the Lantus and Levemir page. So much that it can be very overwhelming. Try to read some every day, starting with the first one, and ask questions when you don't understand something. The only dumb question is the one you don't ask! You will find there are a lot of very nice, compassionate, experienced and generous people in L&L Land (Lantus & Levemir Land).

We are so glad you found us!! I hope we can help you, your mom and your sweet Perkins.

Thank you so much for your help, everyone here is so nice, I hope I can one day repay all the kindness me and my mom have received. Right now we have him back on his Purina DM, when he got sick on Friday he won't eat so we had to give him any food he wanted and that was regular canned cat food we feed the cats outside. I do give him Fancy Feast for a treat, I found a list of low carb ones on this site so we went out and bought them. When I try to get blood from his ear the Fancy Feast really distracts him so I can try about 5 times before he is done. Can you buy diabetic treats from a store?

 

[Elena]

@Elena what state/city are you in? There may be someone on the forum in your area that can recommend a better vet for you. Sorry to hear everything you guys have one through with Perkins. Lots of good info posted. Diet can really help bring down his bg# to. Read through this its made for vets and what they should of been telling you http://jfm.sagepub.com/content/17/3/235.full.pdf html
The only thing you need from the vet is the prescription for lantus and then you can buy a box of 5 pens that would last appx a year from here https://rxcanada4less.com/index.html for a lot cheaper. Also you can buy needles online or at local pharmacy for a lot cheaper(depending on where you live you may or may not need a script from the vet). A meter, supplies and food I get all of it at walmart for cheaper than anywhere else. Lot of diet info on here http://www.catinfo.org/

Thanks, I think when we run out of testing strips that came with the meter we will have to go to walmart and get the meter that uses those cheaper strips. I think I jumped to conclusions about our new vet, and when I say new vet I mean new to treating Perkins. This vet used to own the practice but he sold it and left, now he's back working there, he is at the same office as the old one who told us wrong info. But he did call us late last night to talk about Perkins. He said "when the lady who picks up the phone said cancer she meant FeLV", but that's not really what she meant but why argue. We have had bad experience with vets so it's hard for us to trust. He said he was not sure what is causing the high white blood cell count. He wanted us to give Perkins a shot of Convenia, I said no because if he has a reaction it stays in the body plus we can't really afford it this month so he said amoxicillin again. We tried biomox 3 weeks ago and it gave him diarrhea so then we gave him Zeniquin but the didn't seem to help because his WBC went from 13,000 thousand to 33000. This vet is a older man and a nice gentleman and we do trust him to a extent, but you really have to be your own vet. He does try to work with us, he offered to let me do the shot of Convenia myself to avoid a office vist cost. I know if he was still the owner of the place he would do more about the prices but the new owner is all about the money, I could tell a real horror story but that wouldn't help Perkins. I hope God has plan for all this, then it will be all worth it in the end. God bless.

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

Thank you so much for your help, everyone here is so nice, I hope I can one day repay all the kindness me and my mom have received. Right now we have him back on his Purina DM, when he got sick on Friday he won't eat so we had to give him any food he wanted and that was regular canned cat food we feed the cats outside. I do give him Fancy Feast for a treat, I found a list of low carb ones on this site so we went out and bought them. When I try to get blood from his ear the Fancy Feast really distracts him so I can try about 5 times before he is done. Can you buy diabetic treats from a store?

Most of us give 1 ingredient freeze dried treats like Pure bites Chicken is a favorite-
Stella and Chewys- Natres Variety- Orajen etc.... there are tons...once you start looking you will see

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Elena, most pet stores have freeze dried meat treats. If you buy the dog ones, they cost less and you can break them up to cat size.

Seattle is a big city. Surely you can find another vet there that is more up to speed. This one sounds very old school. I am so glad you refused the Convenia. As you said, it stays in the system a long time, and if the cat has a bad reaction, there isn't much you can do about it. Did they try Clavamox? Baytril?

The Fancy Feast Classic pates are very diabetic friendly, and much more wallet friendly than prescription foods. Friskies pates are also okay for diabetics. Is the Purina DM he's eating dry or canned?

 

[Elena]

I'm not sure were is says I'm in Seattle but that's not were I live lol. A few years ago the vet gave him clavamox and he kept throwing up, but maybe we should try the Baytril

 

[Wulfwin]

This is rather late of a response, but I only just saw this thread and wanted to add one thing. Technically, if Perkins has only had one negative FeLV test as a kitten, he could still have FeLV. If he was exposed very near the date of the test, the virus may not have been detectable yet (this is also the case for FIV). Also, some cats that have FeLV won't test positive on a blood test, but the virus can be found in the bone marrow. We actually had a case of that a couple years ago at the shelter I work at - pregnant cat tested FeLV negative, gave birth in foster care, the kittens tested positive. After a lot of headscratching and research, our vets determined that the mom was one of those cats that the virus was only detectable in the bone marrow. I'm not saying that FeLV is the problem here, but it probably can't be definitively ruled out as a possible cause on the basis of one negative test as a kitten.

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

I'm not sure were is says I'm in Seattle but that's not were I live lol

Oops, sorry, Elena. I don't know where I got that, either. Well, wherever you live, perhaps there is another vet that would be a better choice.

I've heard a few others say their cats threw up with Clavamox. All my cats (a total of 8 over the years) have had it with no issues. I guess it's just like people, some things just don't agree with one person and are fine for the next. Just out of curiosity, did you make sure Perkins ate before giving it to him?

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

With Baytril, always double check on the dose by checking reliable sites online. Baytril can cause blindness in cats if the cat gets a dose that is too high. Not that you're necessarily going to get Baytril, but that's an antibiotic that is extra important to make certain the dose is appropriate.

Many antibiotics will cause diarrhea. You can prevent or counter it by giving yogurt with active cultures (no added sugar, so something like Nancy's yogurt) if your cat will eat it. Otherwise probiotics are good. This link has good information on probiotic use in cats, including brands and dosages.

Friskies pate are low carb, inexpensive, and an acceptable food for cats. You can always give a bite of food for a treat. You can also cook chicken, dice it small, freeze most of it and keep a couple of tablespoons of cut up bits in the fridge. Those are great treats. A treat should be small - we cut ours up in 1/2" cubes.

 

[Elena]

Oops, sorry, Elena. I don't know where I got that, either. Well, wherever you live, perhaps there is another vet that would be a better choice.

I've heard a few others say their cats threw up with Clavamox. All my cats (a total of 8 over the years) have had it with no issues. I guess it's just like people, some things just don't agree with one person and are fine for the next. Just out of curiosity, did you make sure Perkins ate before giving it to him?

It's ok, I wish we were in Seattle, I would be a lot cooler lol. Perkins loves to eat, so I'm better sure he did eat at the time. I think what made him throw up was the vet gave him a dog size dose. At the time he was about 20 pounds so she gave him I think 100mg twice daily. After that he stopped eating so she said cut it in half, that is when he started throwing up. Perkins weighs a lot less now. He is only around 14 pounds. The vet said we could try Orbax but that's not right either because when I looked it up it's pretty much the same kind of antibiotic ( fluoroquinolone) which is the same as Zeniquin. He took Z for a week and it did no good. So I guess me and my mom will have to pick the right one.

 

[Elena]

With Baytril, always double check on the dose by checking reliable sites online. Baytril can cause blindness in cats if the cat gets a dose that is too high. Not that you're necessarily going to get Baytril, but that's an antibiotic that is extra important to make certain the dose is appropriate.

Many antibiotics will cause diarrhea. You can prevent or counter it by giving yogurt with active cultures (no added sugar, so something like Nancy's yogurt) if your cat will eat it. Otherwise probiotics are good. This link has good information on probiotic use in cats, including brands and dosages.

Friskies pate are low carb, inexpensive, and an acceptable food for cats. You can always give a bite of food for a treat. You can also cook chicken, dice it small, freeze most of it and keep a couple of tablespoons of cut up bits in the fridge. Those are great treats. A treat should be small - we cut ours up in 1/2" cubes.

Thanks for letting me know. Your right, I will have to keep a eye on what the vet gives and check it out for myself.

 

[Elena]

This is rather late of a response, but I only just saw this thread and wanted to add one thing. Technically, if Perkins has only had one negative FeLV test as a kitten, he could still have FeLV. If he was exposed very near the date of the test, the virus may not have been detectable yet (this is also the case for FIV). Also, some cats that have FeLV won't test positive on a blood test, but the virus can be found in the bone marrow. We actually had a case of that a couple years ago at the shelter I work at - pregnant cat tested FeLV negative, gave birth in foster care, the kittens tested positive. After a lot of headscratching and research, our vets determined that the mom was one of those cats that the virus was only detectable in the bone marrow. I'm not saying that FeLV is the problem here, but it probably can't be definitively ruled out as a possible cause on the basis of one negative test as a kitten.

Thanks for letting me know, we do have another cat in the house so I wouldn't want to get him sick. There are still two cats outside we want to get in, they are the brother to one we have inside now, it's a long story. We were considering just giving the two brothers outside a dewormer and just letting them in but I guess they should be tested first but they are pretty healthy and eat really good, in fact they are plump but I guess you can't go by that.

 

[Elena]

When the vet called I asked "do you think he should have a antibiotic?" He says I guess.....it can't hurt. I know the gentleman is close to 80 but wake up. I need a yes or no answer, if we are going to give meds that could make Perkins sicker I need to know we have to do it. So I emailed two ladies who do some animal rescuing, I haven't talked to them in years but they must know a vet who can look over Perkins blood work and give us a second opinion then I can get whatever meds they recommend from our vet who I must say is very agreeable.

 

[Elena]

I posted Perkins labs on the SS I don't know if people can see them but if you can any thoughts on them would be much appreciated

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

One little tip - I went through on punkin's labs and put any test results that were out of the normal range in red.

@Marje and Gracie Marje may be able to comment on the labs. This link also has some explanations of lab work for cats.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

When the vet called I asked "do you think he should have a antibiotic?" He says I guess.....it can't hurt. I know the gentleman is close to 80 but wake up. I need a yes or no answer, if we are going to give meds that could make Perkins sicker I need to know we have to do it. So I emailed two ladies who do some animal rescuing, I haven't talked to them in years but they must know a vet who can look over Perkins blood work and give us a second opinion then I can get whatever meds they recommend from our vet who I must say is very agreeable.

I am not in favor of giving antibiotics unless a condition has actually been diagnosed for which they are needed. Mainly because they can severely mess with gut flora even if a probiotic is given but also the body can build up a resistance to them.

 

[manxcat419]

One quick thought - I notice Perkins' potassium is low and may need supplementation. One reason for low potassium and high WBC's could be if he's had vomiting and diarrhea that were caused by an infection.

 

[Elena]

One little tip - I went through on punkin's labs and put any test results that were out of the normal range in red.

@Marje and Gracie Marje may be able to comment on the labs. This link also has some explanations of lab work for cats.

good idea thanks.

 

[Elena]

There is only one other thing I can think of , years ago when Perkins's bladder was blocked they did do a x-ray which showed something attached to the side of his bladder. Years latter we did another x-ray and the lady vet at the time suggested we cut open Perkins and see what it is. I said why, do you think it is cancer? She said no that would be her least likely cause. She said her husband was a very good surgeon. Well I sure am glad I didn't let her "husband" cut open our cat, he is the one who said in the beginning Perkins didn't need insulin.