Cat diagnosed with diabetes BUT ALSO might have chf

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Tammy K and Kitties

Tammy K and Kitties

Member Since 2016
I was referred here from the Cat Forum site I copied and pasted my thread from there this morning Thanks for any help and tips I can get :)

If anyone has had a kitty with this PLEASE let me know if there is anything I can do myself to boost him up and get him better. My cat Sammy ,Sam,and various other versions of his name! has been a healthy robust kitty meowing for food although the last few weeks more often than normal and I noticed him peeing a lot more out and indoors. Then he just simply stopped eating and drinking one day. I took him to the vet one day after he stopped and he was just ready to put him down
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He is always like that as we are a rural community and that is what most here would do. I am on a disability income and I cannot spend endless amounts and that is why I am looking for some tips and helps from here but I would like to give it my best shot to save my kitty. His age is estimated as he came here a stray I would say he is at least 10... I have giving him insulin 2 x a day (only 2 units) his sugar was 399 I have been feeding him through a syringe like every hour and trying to get some water in him too but probably not enough. It is difficult because he probably needs fluids for the diabetes but with the possible chf (congestive heart failure) we are having to give him a pill to get the water off his lungs and heart... I guess that is why the vet did not give them??. He has improved since Wed when I took him to the vet. He is more alert likes being out (on a light lead of course with me) watching the birds etc. but but still not wanting to eat on his own and no poo for at least 5 days (probably not enough food I am thinking to poo) He is using his box but like I already stated not wanting to eat or drink although he did drink a few days ago even when he wasn't eating....I might be taking him and getting another glucose test to see if we need to up his insulin. But so hard to spend money I know I am going to have trouble coming up with. The doc didn't run additional tests that day because he was having trouble getting blood (he was taking it out of his neck and it was hurting him
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) Sorry people I have to use this vet because he is like 1/2 of the cost of the other one here in town...He is 30 a vet visit plus all the other things and she is 60 his tests are 100 hers are 200...So anyway I have taken him and done some things for him and will try a few more...I don't want to lose my kitty I love him so much the little scamp! He had behaviors I did not always like but I love him to pieces! I of course also do not want him to be in pain...Thank you in advance
 

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Welcome Tammy and Sammy!! You've come to the best place you never wanted to be!!

First, could you answer some questions? What kind of food is Sammy on? What type of insulin?

With diabetic cats, it's important that they eat a low carb (less than 10%) canned food. This doesn't need to be anything horribly expensive either! Plain Fancy Feast Classics, Friskies Pate's and 9-Lives ground foods are all less than 10% carbs and affordable.

Next, we're big believers in home testing here. Even the most fractious cat can learn to accept home testing and if it's done right, most learn to actually look forward to it! The key is to develop a routine and always give a reward each time you test. Kitties quickly learn to associate the testing with the treat and will go to their "testing spot" waiting!!

If you live in the US, Walmart is your friend.....Their Relion Confirm or Micro blood glucose meters are about $15 and the replacement strips are a decent price ($35.88 per 100)....by home testing, you avoid the charges at the vet, as well as getting more accurate numbers since just being at the vet can raise the blood glucose numbers up to 200 points due to stress.

We have lots of tips on saving money as well as how to home test, so please know that this IS something you can do!! There are hundreds of others here doing the same thing!!

We also do have a few cats here with diabetes and CHF.....they can be managed together!!

Do you have any questions? There's lots more information but I don't want to overwhelm you right away
 
The truth is, CHF is typically caused by heart disease. The best option for that is a cardiologist and they are expensive. My suggestion here would be to try fund raising, yard/bake/craft sales, internet search for assistance for vet bills, a Go Fund Me page, tap friends and family for ideas and help. You might even check with your local cat rescues and Humane Society to see if either knows of a low cost cardiologist.

I have Squeaker's glucose meter (Relion Confirm), a few strips, and lancets that I would be happy to send you at no cost to help you out. If you would like them, just send me your address in a private message and I'll pop them in the mail.
 
Thank you for your advice and help! I guess my first question is this: My mom was pre diabetic and she tested her insulin a lot as she was really afraid to become diabetic and then when she passed (unless people and cats are different) my sister still has all of her testing supplies, Could we possibly just use that for him?? If not I would be most appreciative of the testing supplies but if I can use what we have then some other low income soul may need them some day.... Thanks for the petfund information that is greatly appreciated as well. Sammy is on Science diet a/d at the moment I am syringe feeding him every hour as much as I possibly can. He did go and sit by his bowl a minute ago and though I tried to feed him in it and he smelled it he is still not eating on his own yet. .Very good to know about the Fancy Feast and the other ones you mentioned I actually have some of those as I also have a Hypothyroid cat as well who has bad teeth and eats some canned food and a little dry so usually have some on hand. The insulin the vet sold me is Prozinc I believe it is called, although I have been told that Walmart has insulin for a much better cost . Do you know if there really is a lot of difference? I was told to look on YouTube about testing is that what you advise? My friend said she does it from the ear...I was frightened to do the shots but I made myself and I am sure I could learn to do the testing as well. I know the vet wants me back to test but hey if I can do it all the better to spend that money on something else (if he is going to need to see a heart vet.... I must be honest that scares me as I live in a small Indiana town and don't know that there are any of those anywhere near here and even if so I will need to do the fundraising I am sure. It is not that I don't love my little man I just also have to live in reality of a low income world...)So anyway whatever I can save by not testing at the vet and such will be the better toward maybe affording the other care he might need. I will be most appreciative of any and all money saving and other tips, yes just in small increments might be great so as not to overwhelm lol...thanks...
 
First, ProZinc is a good insulin for cats....You don't want the "cheap stuff" at WalMart...it's too harsh for cats and doesn't last long enough. Other insulins that are good are Lantus and Levemir (but they are both insanely high in the states which is why a lot of us are buying ours from Canada at 1/3rd the cost)

I'm not sure how much ProZinc is, but we're paying about $175 for a 5 pack of Lantus insulin from Canada and that's enough to last most cats 1-2 years so it breaks down to less than $15/month

The big cost in home testing is the replacement strips, so in regards to using your mom's, yes, you can use that one, but you'll want to see how much the strips are for it!! Some strips for a lot of those meters are over $1 each!! When we test at least 4 times a day, that runs into some big money!! (and most of us test 6-8 times a day or more)

Here's one of the best videos I've seen on home testing

Here's something I wrote up for others that needed help with testing...maybe it'll help you too!

It can be really helpful to establish a routine with testing. Pick one spot that you want your "testing spot" to be (I like the kitchen counter because it's got good light and it's at a good height....it also already blocked 2 escape routes due to the wall and the backsplash) It can be anywhere though...a rug on the floor, a table, a particular spot on the couch...wherever is good for you. Take him there as many times a day as you can and just give his ears a quick rub and then he gets a yummy (low carb) treat. Most cats aren't objecting so much with the poking..it's the fooling with their ears they don't like, but once they're desensitized to it and learn to associate a certain place with the treats, they usually start to come when they're called! Or even when they hear us opening the test kit!

You also have to remember...you're not poking him to hurt him...you're testing him to keep him safe and understand what's going on inside his body. There's just nothing better than truly understanding what's going on inside your kitty's body and with this disease, the more knowledge you have, the more power you have against it. The edges of the ears have very few pain receptors, so it really doesn't hurt them. Also, if you're nervous and tense, it's going to make your kitty nervous and tense too. As silly as it might seem, try singing! It forces you to use a different part of your brain!

It's also important to make sure his ear is warm. A small sock filled with a little rice and microwaved or a small pill bottle filled with warm water (check temp against your wrist like you would a baby bottle) works well.

When you're first starting, it's also important to use a lower gauge lancet, like 25-28 gauge. Most of the "lancet devices" come with 33 gauge lancets and they are just too tiny to start with. The bigger lancets (that are lower numbers) make a bigger "hole". As you poke more and more, the ears will grow new capillaries and will be easier and easier to get blood from...we call it "learning to bleed"

Finding the right "treat" will be a great help too! Freeze dried chicken, bonito flakes, little pieces of baked chicken...whatever low carb treat you can find that he really enjoys will help him to associate the testing with the treat! China's Achilles heel was baked chicken, so I'd bake a piece, chop it into bite sized pieces, put some in the refrigerator and freeze the rest to use as needed. It didn't take long for her to come any time I picked up the meter!
 
Wow! I am still trying but yes getting scared of all the info but still trying to help the little guy! I will check the costs of the strips my mom has and maybe I will need a different meter instead... I don't think she had any of those type lancets she had a thing that went around your finger and you close it and it pokes and I can't use that... I just watched that video on YouTube !! Very well done and informative! Thanks Prozinc from my vet was $105. It looks as though it will last a g
 
Guys I have another friend I talk to about this as well and she is in WI and she is great as well she was telling me if he was acting lethargic after a shot it might be too much or wasn't needed.. (Please don't be angry with me.)Trying so hard to do the best I can. Having 2 sick cats is so hard and I feel like a bad pet owner as my cat Khye is 16 and hyperthyroid and rarely wants to leave the basement I guess he should be released to pet heaven but now this happened....Anyway, I watch Sammy very closely. Yesterday when I gave him the shot he seemed to get lethargic like he hadn't needed it like it maybe made him too low...I didn't give him his second shot last evening and he is still fine this morning but his injection time is normally 8:30 he is sitting here by me and he wants food...He also wanted some in the night I gave him some of a can of the Fancy Feast Classic....That brings us to now he still seems fine but of course I can't really tell and would like to test before giving him the injection...Definitely don't feel safe not to do it this morning....He also is wanting food so I am going to feed him.... I tried last night several times and CANNOT get blood from his ear (either one) I shone a light. I tried a warm sock first.(I don't have any white rice at the moment)I even did try singing I tried to do 2 little pokes like in the video but for one thing I realized that my lancets ARE too small (30's).......Trying to do what is right and best for Sam(without putting myself in bankruptcy as I am sure the vet would be glad to test him for a huge fee) Guess I will need to feed and inject for this morning (around 8:30am) and then I MUST learn how to test....Please let me know any and all helps with getting this blood drop. I did watched the video several times and a few others as well..... Also he does seem to want to eat a lot (he always did!) I am giving him fancy feast canned...I don't even know for sure what I am doing now with food...My other cats of course want to eat every time he does. They are still getting the Purina One Salmon and tuna flavor dry but I feel like that food might have caused Sam and Khye (hyperthyroid other male but he is 16) to get sick?...My cat Abby especially wants to be fed a lot and meows and bugs me (almost like Sam had been doing) I had gotten to the place that I feed them small amounts over the day is this maybe making them diabetic??? I am so stressed over this, so sorry to be
 
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First, I am so sorry you are having these issues. I may not be the ray of hope, but here goes. First, you can test on the paw. I had Vet techs coming here to test Beauregard twice daily (on his ear) because I was petrified (and I'm diabetic also). They began showing me what to do, and I actually got blood myself (on the paw). I never could master the ear. When I could not get blood and they could not come, I took him to the Vet to have them test. I realize these are not options for you. I do believe when sugars are so high, the insulin is "safe", however, being diabetic myself, I never ever guess and make sure they are as high as I think before I dose.

Second, Beauregard also had heart failure, and fatty liver and a multitude of other issues, and one seemed to do in the other (sorry, no sleep and not much coffee yet; rambling and not making sense). I had to feed him every two hours, and it was mostly by syringe. I tried FF, every flavor and the gravy (it was more importat for him to eat than worry about the carbs). It was a struggle, because I think he was just tired of being forced to eat, and the testing, and finally, when I took him to a specialty Vet, it was decided he needed to gain his wings. However, he had fluid on the lungs, heart, edema, heart failure, fatty liver disease and last but not least, diabetes. I feel certain that maybe with "just" the heart failure and diabetes, you might have better luck.

I know you said you can't go to another Vet, so my advice is to read things the people here say and take it to heart. Most if not all have been thru this many times, and have done research, and likely are more expert than any Vet out there. And good luck. HUGS
 
Try this for getting blood from the paws which is what I do as my cat won't have her ears messed with.

First set out your equipment. A large towel on the floor, some alcohol gel or wipes - something to clean the paws. Some vaseline or neosporin, whichever you have to hand. Cotton wool wipes. An old sock with a handful of rice in it and then knotted to make a little bag. Load up the lancet machine. Push the strip almost into the meter but not far enough to activate it. Make sure you have spare strips to hand in case the blood doesn't go onto it the first time. Everything should be in easy reach for when you sit cross legged on the towel with the cat. Warm the sock in the microwave for 30 seconds, throw it down on the towel then go get the cat. Have good light to work by.
Sit cross legged on the floor, cradle the cat between your legs and on her back, and grasp one of the back paws, apply a tiny blob of alcohol gel and rub in well.
Place the warm sock over the pads and while the foot is warming up make a big fuss of the cat so she associates this with getting good attention.
Once the pads are warm place the lancet machine firmly onto the rear large pad, I have the alphatrak set on 4 which goes nicely into the pad. Press the button and hold for 2-3 seconds before withdrawing and as you put the lancet down push the strip all the way into the meter.
Gently squeeze the paw pad until you see a little blob of blood, the meter should now be ready to read.
Hold the very edge or end (depending on which meter you use) of the test strip onto the top of the blob and it sucks it up and beeps, put the meter down.
Press gently on the paw pad for several seconds with the cotton wool pad to prevent bruising, then rub a small amount of vaseline onto the pad whilst making a fuss of the cat.
By this time the meter should have given you a reading.
Let go of the cat and reward her with a food treat and more fussing.
 
Thank you guys for all of the excellent advice. I will keep trying !! I am so sorry about Beauregard </3 . It is so hard when they get old and we lose them. Thank you both so much and ((HUGS)) back :)
 
Beau was only 10, but just too many obstacles.

You will just get so much help here, and reassuring hugs. So glad you are here. Hope things get better and soon,
 
I FINALLY got the blood drop tonight to test, yay!!!(once; hope now I can get it always....) but according to my meter it is only 46 Too low what to do??
 
Did he get insulin today?? How long ago?

If yes, then you want to get some high carb food (Like Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers) and pop the top, put it back and "squeeze" the gravy into another bowl...Give him a teaspoon or two of just the gravy part and retest in 20 minutes

If you don't have any high carb canned food, a couple of drops of Karo, honey or syrup mixed with a little low carb food will work too
 
His first injection was this morning at 8:30 am he is getting 2 units I was supposed to be doing 2 units 2 x a day (next one would have been at 8:30 this evening but I should not give it to him correct) I didn't give it to him last night either because he seemed so good and after shots had been seeming lethargic. I got the blood drop and now saying that (low) I don't have any of the Gravy lovers :( I got all the other kind that is OK for the diabetic cat....I will get some of the gravy ones for this....I will give him some drops of that and some Karo (I have some) in those other foods Thank you.
 
OK....give a few drops of Karo in some regular food and check him again in 20-30 minutes

46 is OK...but we want to get him above 50

The fact that he's this low, this late (although I don't know how long it's been since your 8:30 and my 8:30 aren't necessarily the same) tells us that 2 units it too high a dose!!

We work here on the + system.....how many hours since the last shot? So if you shoot at 8:30 and you get a test at 6:30, that's +10 (1o hours since the last shot)

How long until his next shot time? (and yes, I think you're probably going to want to skip tonight and spend some time working on getting you spreadsheet up and your signature filled out)
 
Ok so you want me to test him again tonight before I go to bed oh I so hope it goes ok and I CAN! he did not like it cried out when I did it :'( ...I normally am to give him 2 units at 8:30 am and it is now around 8:51 pm here so it will be 11 hrs and 40 minutes til his next injection time which I need to test before as well I know...and give him 1 unit not 2. I honestly am not sure what you mean "spreadsheet and signature" so sorry been so much to absorb the last few days. If it is in your other message I will re read it to be sure .Thank you
 
OK...No worries!! We'll help you!!

OK....for the signature, look at the top right side of the page for your sign on name and click there....You'll see a drop down menu that gives you the option of "Signature"...click there and a new box will pop up

In the box, put information like:

Your name/Cats name, age, sex, date of diagnosis, type of insulin, type of meter, type of food, other health problems? and maybe a general location for where you live. That way we don't have to keep asking the same questions over and over again regarding what insulin you use, what type of meter, etc......If you look directly below any of my comments, you'll see our "signature" information

Once you have it, just "save changes"
 
We have a spreadsheet here we use that's color coordinated (which makes it easier to see the "patterns" we look for when we give advice)

Here are Instructions on Getting the FDMB spreadsheet

It's really not hard to get....You will need a Google account, but if you have that already, you just have to follow the directions and choose the spreadsheet for where you live and the type of meter you use (Looks like you're in the US and using a human meter...if that's correct, you'd use THIS TEMPLATE)

If you have any trouble at all, feel free to send me a private message. It takes about 30 seconds for me to set it up for you. Just click on my name and then "Start Conversation"

Once you have your spreadsheet set up, you put the link into your signature so anyone advising you can quickly see how things have been going
 
@Tammy K Hummel ....have you retested yet??

When they're below 50, we want to feed something high carb (or with Karo) and then test again in 20-30 minutes....if they're above 50, you still need to test again 30 minutes later to make sure that they stay up....the high carb food can wear off and they can drop back down again
 
Was so exhausted last evening I fell asleep. 2 sick cats and a separation take their toll on a person. I just now tried to get a blood drop again and he shakes his head and makes the blood fly and I tried too many times and made it a miserable experience for Sam and didn't get enough to read it said error. He has lost weight I can tell. I may just have to face it that I am not good at this and do as the vet suggested. Last night it was easy one prick and he bled a lot and that was that. Today was awful again.
 
You might try scraping the blood onto your fingernail and then testing from there

As soon as you get a droplet of blood, just run your fingernail under it....then he can shake all he wants since you'll have your sample to test!
 
Tammy K Hummel said:
It is time for their topical flea and tick meds....Is it ok to put Sammy's on him still ? It is Revolution
Click to expand...
Revolution is fine. If you typically shoot in the scruff area, and the Revolution itself is suppose to be applied between the shoulder blades, you might want move your injection site elsewhere for a day (I usually do the flank) while the Revolution has a chance to absorb.
 
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