Questions about prozinc & Baco

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Ruby&Baco

Ruby&Baco

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Hello everybody,

I have some questions for you regarding the patterns (or no patterns at all) with prozinc and/or Baco.
I got already some anwsers, but I want to know a little bit more about how prozinc works.
So here I go :)

1. I've been seeing a pattern in Baco's #. Frequently her # are high(er) at AMPS than PMPS. What are the different causes of these different #? I'm going to try this weekend to regulate her with the 11/13 methode. Hope this will get her # at AMPS lower than normally.

2. I can carefully say that Baco's # are getting stable more and more by the day. So my question is, is there a specific time that you have to give a kitty to get used to the insuline and to balance to get effects? Or is this just an effect of Baco's change from dry food (HC) to raw food (LC)? Because it looks like all of a sudden she wants to stabilize her own # (what I definitely don't mind at all! :cat:)

3. Is there a kitty with a SS on this forum that I can see that is already 100% stable being on prozinc?

4. What is the minimum # to think about going down with the dose? For example. Baco's # are getting more in the yellow ones... If she's going to show me (hopefully) in a couple of days that both her AMPS and PMPS are yellow, should I go down from 0.40 dosis to 0.35 again? Or would that be a bad choice to make?

5. How many other kitties on this forum are already stable with prozinc? Or are even heading to remission because of the use of prozinc?

I know these are a lot of questions, but the more I've read and informed myself with the use and the working of prozinc these couple of weeks, the more I would like to know :p

Hope to hear from you all :bighug:
 
1. The different numbers can be caused by different things. Difference in food at AM/PM, exercise levels, time the insulin lasts. It's kind of an ECID thing.

2. I think this is pretty ECID too (I know you have to hate hearing that!). If I understand the question, you're asking if there is a length of time we need to have a kitty on insulin before they balance out. There really isn't. Some cats get on insulin, get regulated in a week or two, and are OTJ within a month. Some kitties bounce around for a year beforehand. My Gypsy was slowly heading towards being regulated when I found she had cancer. It just depends.

3. Offhand, I can't think of any. A lot of folks don't post often once they hit regulation or OTJ. Let me get some coffee in me and see if I can remember some SS for you to look at.

4. Depends on your numbers. I think most folks go down about 0.25. However, I think going down 0.05 like you suggested would be fine as long as the numbers were slowly trending down. If you had a sudden super low, I'd probably consider going down a bit more.

5. Again, offhand, I couldn't say. I'll try to look around and see if I can figure that out...but I need coffee first! :D
 
one thought...check out the Remission thread at the top of this forum. You can look at some of the SS there and near the end, those folks were all getting regulated!
 
Rachel said:
2. I think this is pretty ECID too (I know you have to hate hearing that!). If I understand the question, you're asking if there is a length of time we need to have a kitty on insulin before they balance out. There really isn't. Some cats get on insulin, get regulated in a week or two, and are OTJ within a month. Some kitties bounce around for a year beforehand.
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Yes you understood it perfectly! Thought maybe there are some 'rules' that a kitty needs to be regulated between some periode of time, and if not switch to different dosis or to an other type of insuline.

Rachel said:
My Gypsy was slowly heading towards being regulated when I found she had cancer. It just depends.
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So sorry to hear that. Wow that should have been really hard for you to find out that your kittie had cancer. How did you find out? did he/she had a lump you could feel or something like that? Or did he/she act different?

Thanks for figuring things out for me! I'd love to see a kitty OTJ or almost OTJ! Love to see the SS so I can get an idea of how this works. Because I still think Baco's # are indicating to me that her pancreas IS doing something, definitely not all the way otherwise she already be OTJ :p but it is doing some work now and then.. So my hope in the near future is that I can give her little less juice everytime I feel like that's the right thing to do. I mean she is already really going down in # and even in insuline. She started with 1.5U and even 2.0U for a couple of days. She then started showing us that that was way to much, and needed less then that.

Please, drink your coffee first :coffee::bighug:
 
Ruby&Baco said:
What is the minimum # to think about going down with the dose? For example. Baco's # are getting more in the yellow ones... If she's going to show me (hopefully) in a couple of days that both her AMPS and PMPS are yellow, should I go down from 0.40 dosis to 0.35 again? Or would that be a bad choice to make?
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Ruby, I think you probably don't want to reduce her dose just yet ... Today's AMPS is a nice yellow, and that's a good sign. But unless she were to suddenly drop too low (meaning #s at less than 5o on her human meter), she's not really showing you a reason to reduce quite yet. She had shown you some nice blue numbers mid-cycle on 5/10, but when you had to skip the pm dose that night, her pancreas made it clear that it still needs help from insulin, and she recovered nicely at this current dose from all those pinks you'd seen in the cycle directly after the skipped dose.

Your goal here is to see her pre-shot #s gradually come down to blues (rather than yellows) with mid-cycle #s (and nadir) in some nice greens. And the operative word here is "gradual." With diabetes, we often talk about putting on our "patience pants" because this process is a marathon rather than a sprint. And the process won't allow us to rush it, even though it can feel so frustrating:banghead: to spend so much time watching & waiting, watching & waiting. (All of us here know how that feels!:rolleyes:)

It might be a good idea for you to try to a few tests in later in her pm cycles (maybe on the weekend, when you don't have to get up for work) just to see how she's processing the insulin later in that nighttime cycle; this may help guide you in determining any type of shift in the timing of her AM/PM doses.

So I guess what I'm saying - in a nutshell - is: It just takes ... time. ;):bighug:
 
Thank Robin for you reply and information.
Then I will wait untill I will see some BLUES :cool: at her PS moments :)
Today's AM cycle I don't know what happend but she was at 274 amps and now +9.5 at 356 again... strange.

Robin&BB said:
With diabetes, we often talk about putting on our "patience pants" because this process is a marathon rather than a sprint. And the process won't allow us to rush it, even though it can feel so frustrating:banghead: to spend so much time watching & waiting, watching & waiting. (All of us here know how that feels!:rolleyes:)
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Well that's for sure!! haha:rolleyes: I get so excited when I see yellow and blue # and then when I get the pink ones I feel so frustrated about it! I'm thinking by myself, HOW and WHY is this so high right now? You were doing great and now you're so high in #.. I would want to know why she does that.. It would be interesting to know what caused the higher purple ones today... But well, unless Baco could talk, we would never know....:facepalm::banghead:
 
Quick question.. She was high at pmps 344 now +1 at 257 that's a drop of almost 100 points.. should I let this go? or should I give her some dry food (a couple kibbles) to slow her down due to the fact it's just +1?
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
I would give her a little bit to slow her down some since it is +1. Can you get a few more test on her before you go to bed?
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I'm sorry, but I'm going to disagree with Bobbie on this one. Here's why: The dry kibble is going to raise her #s, and she's only dropped into yellows, not even blues or greens. Far better to wait and test again in another half-hour if you're worried about her dropping too far, too fast. She's not anywhere near being hypoglycemic - and if you don't give her pancreas a chance to do its work, you're never going to get her well regulated. Now it goes without saying that this may require you setting some alarms sometimes overnight to accomplish this, but that's just what needs to be done some times. Believe me, Ruby, we've all had to grown accustomed to some sleep-deprivation sometimes.
 
Well that sounds fair, you're right about her still being in the yellows, but I was concerned for her dropping that quick in 1 hour and I heard that that isn't what we want? I thought she needed to slowly drop? But I haven't given the dry kibbles yet so I can test her in 15 minutes again, she will be at +2 then. Hope she will give me some blue # then.
 
Robin had a good point. When I suggested the kibble, it wasn't because she was getting into dangerous numbers, it was more to slow her down some. But, I do think Robin made a very valid point and glad you didn't give the kibble. She does need to stay in these yellow numbers and get lower to help her pancreas get used to them so the bouncing will stop. If she is to get too low through the night, that would be the time to help bring her back up some. I am glad Robin weighed in on this one.
 
Yay, for BLUE!

Yes, I know it's confusing at first.:confused: Dropping quickly is something you want to pay attention to; however, is best to test a little more often when you see that happens, watch and wait, and only steer with food when it's truly necessary. Otherwise you can end up impeding her progress rather than encouraging it. And I do understand that this is not an easy dance to do, but some sleep-deprivation now can pay off in spades later on as your traveling "Kitty Diabetes Road...";)
 
Hahaha a cool blue # well in mmol it's blue because it is 11.1 but in mg/dl its 200 so it's almost blue in your way of counting I see :cool:

It's okay Bobbie, I saw your post as soon as I saw Robin's so it wasn't that I was waiting or something like that, I just didn't saw it earlier ;)
I will monitor her tonight till +4. If she's steady I will go to sleep, if not I will set my alarm.

But i've got another quest (@Bobbie And Bubba ) you mentioned thather pancreas needs to get used to these lower #. How does that work exactly? I don't quite understand!
 
Oh, that's fine. She's still got plenty of breathing room ... but yes, keep on checking her, and let us know what that +4 # is (what time on your clock is that +4, btw?)
 
Ruby&Baco said:
But i've got another quest (@Bobbie And Bubba ) you mentioned thather pancreas needs to get used to these lower #. How does that work exactly? I don't quite understand!
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When the kitties get diagnosed as diabetic, they usually have had it for much longer before they start showing symptoms. Their pancreas get used to being in higher numbers and when the insulin we give start to bring them down, their pancreas start to panic and spill out more glucogen which the body converts to sugar and makes them high again. That is what bouncing is. So, if we can get them to stay in lower normal numbers, their pancreas start to get use to the lower normal numbers and slows down the panicking.
 
Oh wow, didn't know that was the way it worked! I thought the pancreas just starts to work again when when they get enough insuline and then you can slowly give less so the pancreas will pick up the way to work again.. Wow so that's what Baco's pancreas is doing now, that's why she is getting sometimes high #.. Because of the glucogen I guess.
Wow I learned something really interesting today again! Thanks so much :bighug:
 
Just tested her +4 and she gave me a 196.
Her +3 was a 184 so she's going up again, just a little but i'm totally cool with it. She gave me 3 blue numbers so I'm really happy about that.
Going to sleep now!
 
+5 she's going down again. 184. (But she's now eating again some raw food) should I try to get up and test her in 2 hours? Or should I let it go? I think/ asume she will go up because she's eating again and already close to nadir..
 
Goodmoring! (Here) Bet Baco's pancreas thought, let's make some extta glucogen today! Amps was 360. Soooo that a really big # considering she was 6 hours ago (before amps) at 164!
 
Ruby&Baco said:
Goodmoring! (Here) Bet Baco's pancreas thought, let's make some extta glucogen today! Amps was 360. Soooo that a really big # considering she was 6 hours ago (before amps) at 164!
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Good morning, Ruby. (It actually just turned midnight here, so I guess you can say it's morning here now, too!:p) Yes, it's quite possible that Baco is bouncing a little bit, as we already know she'd dropped more than 50% with that 164. You know what they say: Kitties bounce until ... they stop. And the good news is that it's not a gigantic bounce, so I'd be inclined to just stay the course for now, and see if her body starts to get more accustomed to those lower mid-cycle #s.
I know you have your job interview today, but will you be around at any point to check her this cycle?
 
Hi Robin, thanks!
No I'm not around today to check her this cycle, I will be home around +10. o_O

Robin&BB said:
You know what they say: Kitties bounce until ... they stop. And the good news is that it's not a gigantic bounce, so I'd be inclined to just stay the course for now, and see if her body starts to get more accustomed to those lower mid-cycle #s.
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Hihi, hope she will stop :D! What is considered a gigantic bounce? I think what I understand from what you're saying is that she may bounce back to what she was at her PS # (that is okay for her) but if she goes up more than her PS # that's considered a big bounce and not good for her?
 
What I mean by a little bit of bouncing is that her pre-shot # this morning isn't all that much higher than her pre-shot # was last night (only 16 points more). So if she is showing you a bounce, it's not very much of a bounce.:)
 
Yes, that is what I understand yes, so if she shows her amps almost the same as her pmps # than it is considered as 'okay'?
I still have to learn soooooo much about this sugar dance 'thing' :woot:
I will be home tonight so I can test her again in her PM cycle!
thanks for your reply Robin! :bighug:
 
Change of plans, I will be (probably) home earlier, in 1 hour, because the system at my work isn't working... So I can take the day off (I guess) but I have to discuse it with my manager, so hold your breath :nailbiting:
Hopefully I can take of, so i can monitor Baco ! that would be nice
 
Haha! Well i'm home now! I will have to leave in 2 hours because of a job interview, but then after that I will be home again.
 
Thanks! I will let you know how it went! It's my second job interview with this company, soo after this interview I will hear next week if I got it :nailbiting: fingers crossed!
 
Hello, I'm getting a little frustrated because Baco's # after her AM shot aren't improving. tried the 11/13 since yesterday but her # are still the same in the morning.
Maybe this is a silly question (but I'm really still learning) isn't it an option to give Baco more insulin in the morning than in the evening? Or doesn't it work that way?
I feel like this is not doing it's job how it is supposed to be? If I look at SS from other kitties on prozinc, they are already in yellow (or even blue) # at PS and Baco is still being in her pink ones every day after AM shot.(and not going down in the AM, she just stays stabel until PM)
There isn't any change going on in her #.
The only thing that is possitive is that her # are yellow and some blues after PM shot, but i'm worried about those # after her AM shot..
Please give me some advise on how to go on with Baco's insuline, dose,(should I stick with 0.40?) etc.. (sorry, getting a little desperate for not seeing any resultes) :(

The only day that I got her low after her AM shot was 5/10 but that was also the day she missed her PM shot..
Could it be that she was heading the right way on 5/10 for the first time after her AM shot, but because she missed her PM shot, she is now in her pink #?
Or should she already be over the fact that she missed that shot?
But that doesn't give us the information to why she (after her AM shot) isn't really going down? she does go down but only like 20 points.. that's really nothing basicely.
 
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thanks for commenting Bobbie, and tagging the others.
Well that would be really nice if I can give her more insulin in the morning and sticking with 0.40 in the evening.
She surprised me just now at +5 with a 272! she was constantly before around 350 / 370 soo that makes me happy. Maybe my frustration made her feel guilty, so she decided that she would drop lower for me this AM cycle! :)
 
I think we had talked about upping the dose to 0.5 this weekend? I think that would be fine for the pink preshots, while leaving the dose for a yellow preshot at 0.4. She has been so variable in terms of her levels that setting up a sliding scale is a problem. To do one, you have to look over the past few cycles and find patterns, and I don't see many. It certainly does look like, in general, she has room to drop for nadir and an increase in dose should help with that?
 
Hi Sue, i don't think we talked about it. We talked about 'talking' about it this weekend ;) haha but not what the dose should be.
So 0.50 is a good dose you think? Then I will start with it this pm. So she will get 0.50 if she has pink # and if she has a yellow # she gets 0.40 is that what you're saying?
 
I'd try that and see what happens. We don't want her bouncing but she definitely has room to drop some. Remember that a green nadir is fine - as long as it isn't below 50 on a human meter and 68 on a pet one.
 
Okay, that's what i'm going to try then from PM on today. I think she can handle 0.50 because like you said, she has plenty of room to drop even more. I know, green is good i want to see those green numbers! Thanks so much Sue :bighug:
 
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