Phosphorus binder/CKD

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jayla-n-Drevon

jayla-n-Drevon

Member Since 2015
Wondering about personal experiences with phosphuros supplements ....

I have a long term CKD kitty who has managed very well for 6 years -- his phos is just below normal range and want to add a supplement.

I am looking for input on the best kinds/brands?
Thank you!
 
If his level is just below normal range, do you actually want to add a binder? Those are meant to reduce the phosphorus he absorbs from his food so they would reduce his level further! I don't know anything about phosphorus supplements - it's really not an issue many CKD cats have so supplementation isn't something that's ever been mentioned to me (I'm actually not sure that low phosphorus tends to be treated or supplemented for) - I just didn't want you to go ahead and buy a binder thinking that would increase his phosphorus level.
 
From Tanya's CKD site "Low phosphorus levels (below 4 mg/dl) are extremely rare in CKD cats, but are generally not considered to be a problem as long as they do not fall below 2.5 mg/dl. I would try not to go below 3 mg/dl. SeeDiagnosis for more information."
 
Hi Jayla,
What is Rico's P levels at his last BW?
According to Tanyas site http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus.htm Phosphorus binders are used when P levels are over 6, if they are still within normal range you could feed Rico lower P food as a preventitive measure, that might be more effective, she has a link to appropriate foods on the site, the page I have linked has a lot of great info on P.
We suspect BFG has early CKD, possibly Stage 2, his P is normal so at the moment I am just sourcing low P foods adding water to his food and monitoring BW.
I would discuss the phosphorus binder with your vet before starting Rico on it.
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
his phos is just below normal range and want to add a supplement.
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manxcat419 said:
If his level is just below normal range, do you actually want to add a binder?
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Jayla, was that a typo? Did you mean to say that his phosphorous was just above the normal range...?
I'm not sure if we're talking about phos supplements or phos binders....?

As April says, you'd not use a phos binder if the level is already below normal range...

Regarding types of phos binder, I've only tried Aluminium hydroxide. That was because I read of some cats that wouldn't eat their food if mixed with some other 'brands' of phos binder. So I thought I'd try the one that seemed most palatable. ;)
My CKD kitty didn't seem to mind the Alu hydroxide in his food at all.

Edited to add:
Just FYI, Here's a link to an interesting article on rare phos deficiency (hypophosphatemia) in cats:
http://vetbook.org/wiki/cat/index.php?title=Hypophosphatemia

Eliz
 
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You definitely don't want a phosphorus binder for him in that case - it sounds as though he's doing great with all those normal range numbers! :)
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
On his lab from this past Friday
Normal phos is 3.4-8.5
Rico is 3.2
all 3 kidney values are in normal range- (BUN/Creat/Tbil)
@manxcat419
I will check the link out-thank you!
@Elizabeth and Bertie I will also do my homework on the links you sent-thank you!
@Gill & George -- from your reply I m thinking he is ok?
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I think his P is where it should be for Rico according to the table from the CKD site

Age Phosphorus Range in mg/dl (US)
10 days - 2 years 4.5 - 6.7
2 years - 12 years 4.5 - 5.5
Over 12 years 2.7 - 4.5

I don't think you need to be supplementing with phosphorus or using a binder. But on Tanyas site it goes on to say that keeping P down on the food can be helpful in the early stages of disease slowing down progression. That's what I have been doing, looking for food where P is less than 1% DM. (BFG has slightly out of range kidney values but is asymptomatic and SDMA is within range)
It should be easier with Rico food wise, ie a bit more choice for you as he is not an FD kitty, low P and LC don't go hand in hand. There's a lot of great info on the CKD site I linked in the post above.

Did you get an SDMA test done?? That is significantly more sensitive at picking up CKD in the early stages, the link tells you more about it.

Have Rico's kidney values improved since the last time? He's doing great:)



 
Gill & George said:
I think his P is where it should be for Rico according to the table from the CKD site

Age Phosphorus Range in mg/dl (US)
10 days - 2 years 4.5 - 6.7
2 years - 12 years 4.5 - 5.5
Over 12 years 2.7 - 4.5

I don't think you need to be supplementing with phosphorus or using a binder. But on Tanyas site it goes on to say that keeping P down on the food can be helpful in the early stages of disease slowing down progression. That's what I have been doing, looking for food where P is less than 1% DM. (BFG has slightly out of range kidney values but is asymptomatic and SDMA is within range)
It should be easier with Rico food wise, ie a bit more choice for you as he is not an FD kitty, low P and LC don't go hand in hand. There's a lot of great info on the CKD site I linked in the post above.

Did you get an SDMA test done?? That is significantly more sensitive at picking up CKD in the early stages, the link tells you more about it.

Have Rico's kidney values improved since the last time? He's doing great:)
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Hi Gill--
Rico is 17 and been getting fluids sine he was 11--
he is definitely CKD-
The values have been in normal range each year (he is naughty which is why his leg got hurt or I would do BW more)
This is the first time in 6 years something is a little out of normal-just want to stay ahead of it but it seems like it is ok-
He is a very fussy eater--Honestly he gets what he wants but mostly is the same as Dre--LC--or MC
He likes the freeze dried raw as well-
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
Hi Gill--
Rico is 17 and been getting fluids sine he was 11--
he is definitely CKD-
The values have been in normal range each year (he is naughty which is why his leg got hurt or I would do BW more)
This is the first time in 6 years something is a little out of normal-just want to stay ahead of it but it seems like it is ok-
He is a very fussy eater--Honestly he gets what he wants but mostly is the same as Dre--LC--or MC
He likes the freeze dried raw as well-
Click to expand...
I put the food thing out there, but I had a feeling that he was a fuss pot too.:)

He seems to be doing really well. Good job.

Just curious, how did the CKD diagnosis come about, if his values have been in normal range?
 
Gill & George said:
I put the food thing out there, but I had a feeling that he was a fuss pot too.:)

He seems to be doing really well. Good job.

Just curious, how did the CKD diagnosis come about, if his values have been in normal range?
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They were not in normal when DX--
I started giving fluids at age 11 when I asked my doc how high? he said high enough to start fluids-
Since then they have only stayed in normal due to SQ fluids-
 
Larry and Kitties said:
What is urine specific gravity? That is one of the best indicators of kidney problems before the blood values show a problem
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I can barley remember this morning let alone 6 years ago LOL--
I have no idea --I just know if he doesn't get fluids he is not well. I adjust the amount by his behaviors at the point.
He gets them about 5x a week now--
It was about 1-2x a week when it all started.
 
jayla-n-Drevon said:
I have no idea --I just know if he doesn't get fluids he is not well. I adjust the amount by his behaviors at the point.
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That method works though - I noticed the difference in Rosa going from fluids every other day to every day. She doesn't appreciate it being every day for the few minutes that she's actually getting the fluids, but even though she seemed to be feeling pretty good before she's even more active now.
 
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