greenbean
Member Since 2016
What is the disadvantage of giving the injection to him during meals, as instructed by my vet, as opposed to 30 minutes after?
cat diagnosed with diabetes
- Thread starter greenbean
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greenbean
Member Since 2016
Thank you! I appreciate your support.
Why should I test before and after? To make sure his sugar isn't too low? I'm just trying to better understand.
I see in your signature that you are using 16 units of insulin. Was your cat's glucose levels as high as mine? Do you think Zucchini might need that much?! Seems like a lot!
Also, it says that you switched insulin brands, is it because some brands don't decrease the glucose enough? Can cats have side effects to the insulin, like there can be side effects from medication?
Thanks for your support
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greenbean
Member Since 2016
She said the vial should last me about 1 month, depending on how much insulin I will have to give him.
Erica & Carter
Member Since 2016
If you get a Lantus prescription, you can order a 5 pack of Lantus Solostar Pens from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada where one pen can last you upwards of 6 months (if taken care of properly) and the unopened pens are good until the expiration date on the box if refrigerated, which is about about two years.
So if you would prefer Lantus over Vetsulin but you were worried about the cost, to summarize:
3x $50 viles of Vetsulin ($150.00) will only last you 3 months, where as 5 pack ($144.00 + $25.00 Shipping) of Lantus pens can last you over a year. Big savings, and you only need to purchase Lantus ~one a year. Just food for thought.
Sharon14
Member Since 2015
You need to test before to be sure his BG isn't too low to give the insulin, and you test after to see how low it takes him. Testing is really the only way to make sure Zucchini is safe.
My cat has acromegaly, a high dose condition caused by a pituitary tumor. That is why he gets so much insulin and why I switched to Levemir. Levemir and Lantus are depot insulins and last longer in their systems.
If you can set up a spreadsheet and record your numbers you and your vet will be able to see how well the insulin is working. I can not stress enough how important testing can be. We've had many kitties who's lives were saved because their owners were testing and caught the low BG in time.
My cat has acromegaly, a high dose condition caused by a pituitary tumor. That is why he gets so much insulin and why I switched to Levemir. Levemir and Lantus are depot insulins and last longer in their systems.
If you can set up a spreadsheet and record your numbers you and your vet will be able to see how well the insulin is working. I can not stress enough how important testing can be. We've had many kitties who's lives were saved because their owners were testing and caught the low BG in time.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
Caninsulin/Vetsulin can hit very hard and very fast at dropping numbers/ If there is not enough food in the system before the shot it can cause the numbers to drop even lower. Also if for some reason your kitty does not eat enough food at the meal and you have given the shot, then there is nothing to "buffer" the fast action of the insulin. Any vet who prescribes Caninsulin/vetsulin should always tell their clients to feed 30 minutes before the shot.
With the longer acting gentler insulins like PZI/Prozinc, levemir or lantus it is not as critical to have food on board at shot time. Although it is always suggested with those insulins to test, feed and then shoot to make sure the kitty is eating, but the shot can be done at the same time as the meal.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
okay! Thanks, so helpful! I will bring this information to the attention of my vet!If you get a Lantus prescription, you can order a 5 pack of Lantus Solostar Pens from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada where one pen can last you upwards of 6 months (if taken care of properly) and the unopened pens are good until the expiration date on the box if refrigerated, which is about about two years.
So if you would prefer Lantus over Vetsulin but you were worried about the cost, to summarize:
3x $50 viles of Vetsulin ($150.00) will only last you 3 months, where as 5 pack ($144.00 + $25.00 Shipping) of Lantus pens can last you over a year. Big savings, and you only need to purchase Lantus ~one a year. Just food for thought.
I can't even believe all the wonderful support I have gotten from everyone here!
greenbean
Member Since 2016
I see. She gave Zucchini the 1 unit of insulin at the office even though it had been several hours since he'd eaten. But I guess the 1 unit isn't very much.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
okay, thanks. I will pick up the Relion meter later today (hopefully, I'm not feeling so good today, myself) or tomorrow definitely. I will test him.
So, he had the 1 unit in the office. I was told to give him another shot every 12 hours starting tomorrow morning. I can do it 7AM/7PM (I leave for work about 7 AM and get home about 7PM). If there is a problem, I won't be there to see it. The vet didn't seem concerned at all and didn't tell me to look out for any problems. My questions are:
1- what physical symptoms should I look out for in the event Zucchini is having a problem with the insulin?
2- I won't be able to check his glucose after the insulin in the morning because I will be at work. Should I be concerned?
Misterbeesmom
Member Since 2016
My cat had normal bloodwork in september 2015. by his next visit - a mere 2 months later- he was diabetic.
Misterbeesmom
Member Since 2016
Btw i love your cat's name! Too cute!
greenbean
Member Since 2016
wow- it develops so fast
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Forum stickies about hypos and how to treat them:
Hypo Guide - Print this out and keep it somewhere that you can grab it easily in an emergency
Hypo Toolkit
Mogs
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Sharon14
Member Since 2015
Have you started transitioning him to the low carb wet food? If you've begun, I would get the meter and start testing before I gave him a shot, since he had been on a high carb diet before and his BG could begin dropping. Can you leave food out for him while you're gone?
greenbean
Member Since 2016
I started feeding him the FF pattes. No transition needed. He seemed to enjoy it right away. I started feeding both my cats this food Thursday night, which could explain the drop in glucose from 469 to 401.
I eliminated the dry food. He always finishes all the wet food in his bowl, so if I left some out, he would eat it right away. I used to leave out the dry food for him to nibble on during the day, but it looks like that is no longer an option.
When should I test him? Right before he's eaten or right after? This is assuming I am going to inject him either during his meal or right after (according to the vets instructions).
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Sharon14
Member Since 2015
Since you've just switched to low carb food, started insulin and aren't yet testing, I think I would leave a little dry out for him to nibble while you're gone. We don't know how the insulin is going to work yet, and to me, I'd rather be safe. Since you're gone 12hrs/day, you may look into getting an automatic feeder. That way you can leave low carb wet food for him to have around nadir time. Did you read the hypo guide Mogs -Critter Mom- linked? Again, I've never used Vetsulin, but I understand BGs can drop fairly quick and steep.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
I just bought the Relion meter. Should I start testing him tomorrow?
I did read the hypo guide.
Sharon14
Member Since 2015
How long has it been since his shot? I'd test him tonight, just to see where he's at. If you aren't going to be home tomorrow, I'd still leave some food out for him even if he tests high in the AM. We just don't know how well he responds to the insulin. Then test before you feed and give the injection tomorrow evening, then again before you go to bed.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
Okay. He had the injection at 12:30. It is almost 8pm where I am now. I am not home right now, probably won't get back till after 9:30.
I am not terribly concerned, but that is my own ignorance, I am sure. I guess I feel that if he was going to have a reaction, wouldn't he have had it already? How come the vet isn't concerned about this? I did explore this topic with her, but she said "that is why we are starting him on only 1 unit"
Jan Radar (GA)
Member Since 2015
Hello greenbean and welcome to FDMB,
I used Vetsulin for a brief time last summer and looking back it was a wild roller coaster ride. It's really important that you are testing before EVERY shot so you know where the numbers are before you put insulin into the cat. The sequence is test, feed, wait about 30 min, shoot. Waiting to shoot until after the cat has eaten gives the body a little time to start working on the food before the insulin arrives. My understanding is that Vetsulin needs food to work properly.
Vetsulin, in my limited experience with my cat, acted very quickly and dropped his number like a rock. My cat needed a substantial meal before the shot and then a strategic meal as soon as 1.5 hours after the shot. This strategically timed meal kept him from dropping into too low and dangerous numbers. My suggestion is that you always leave food out for him to eat especially when you are gone at work.
When you are home on days off or in the evening or on weekends, it will be very useful to do extra testing so you know better what is happening to the numbers and when. When I started testing more, I learned to be strategic instead of reactionary.
It's also very important to get a spreadsheet going where you will enter the numbers from all your testing. It's color coded to help you see patterns and trends. At first it will all be a jumble, but with time and help from the awesome people here the ss will begin to make sense. If you take a look at my signature you'll see where Radar's spreadsheet is. click on it and you'll see his numbers from our current insulin. If you go to the bottom and click on 2015 you will see the data from when Radar was on Vetsulin. When I was new to all this, it was helpful for me to see another person's ss so I could learn what happened with another cat and what I was aiming for since my head was spinning with sooooo much information.
Here are the directions for setting up the ss. If you need help, let us know.
I used Vetsulin for a brief time last summer and looking back it was a wild roller coaster ride. It's really important that you are testing before EVERY shot so you know where the numbers are before you put insulin into the cat. The sequence is test, feed, wait about 30 min, shoot. Waiting to shoot until after the cat has eaten gives the body a little time to start working on the food before the insulin arrives. My understanding is that Vetsulin needs food to work properly.
Vetsulin, in my limited experience with my cat, acted very quickly and dropped his number like a rock. My cat needed a substantial meal before the shot and then a strategic meal as soon as 1.5 hours after the shot. This strategically timed meal kept him from dropping into too low and dangerous numbers. My suggestion is that you always leave food out for him to eat especially when you are gone at work.
When you are home on days off or in the evening or on weekends, it will be very useful to do extra testing so you know better what is happening to the numbers and when. When I started testing more, I learned to be strategic instead of reactionary.
It's also very important to get a spreadsheet going where you will enter the numbers from all your testing. It's color coded to help you see patterns and trends. At first it will all be a jumble, but with time and help from the awesome people here the ss will begin to make sense. If you take a look at my signature you'll see where Radar's spreadsheet is. click on it and you'll see his numbers from our current insulin. If you go to the bottom and click on 2015 you will see the data from when Radar was on Vetsulin. When I was new to all this, it was helpful for me to see another person's ss so I could learn what happened with another cat and what I was aiming for since my head was spinning with sooooo much information.
Here are the directions for setting up the ss. If you need help, let us know.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
Hi. Thank you so much! I will take a look at your spreadsheet tonight . I am feeling very overwhelmed and I would like to take it one step a time right now. Which is to start giving zucchini his first set of injections tomorrow and take him back to the vet on Tuesday for a check.Hello greenbean and welcome to FDMB,
I used Vetsulin for a brief time last summer and looking back it was a wild roller coaster ride. It's really important that you are testing before EVERY shot so you know where the numbers are before you put insulin into the cat. The sequence is test, feed, wait about 30 min, shoot. Waiting to shoot until after the cat has eaten gives the body a little time to start working on the food before the insulin arrives. My understanding is that Vetsulin needs food to work properly.
Vetsulin, in my limited experience with my cat, acted very quickly and dropped his number like a rock. My cat needed a substantial meal before the shot and then a strategic meal as soon as 1.5 hours after the shot. This strategically timed meal kept him from dropping into too low and dangerous numbers. My suggestion is that you always leave food out for him to eat especially when you are gone at work.
When you are home on days off or in the evening or on weekends, it will be very useful to do extra testing so you know better what is happening to the numbers and when. When I started testing more, I learned to be strategic instead of reactionary.
It's also very important to get a spreadsheet going where you will enter the numbers from all your testing. It's color coded to help you see patterns and trends. At first it will all be a jumble, but with time and help from the awesome people here the ss will begin to make sense. If you take a look at my signature you'll see where Radar's spreadsheet is. click on it and you'll see his numbers from our current insulin. If you go to the bottom and click on 2015 you will see the data from when Radar was on Vetsulin. When I was new to all this, it was helpful for me to see another person's ss so I could learn what happened with another cat and what I was aiming for since my head was spinning with sooooo much information.
Maybe I will prick zucchini again, but while I love playing with the glucose meter, i feel really bad about pricking him.
I just need to first get through giving him the injection on my own two times for the first time tomorrow.
I will try feeding him when I wake up in the morning, and then give him the injection before I leave.
I will tell my partner to keep an eye on him when he is home, and if he looks spacey or strange at all to give him the food with the gravy.
I am also worried about Zucchinis mouth. If the inflamation around his front tooth doesn't heal, he'll have to have it extracted.
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Jan Radar (GA)
Member Since 2015
Take a nice deep breath and know that we've allll been right where you are.
We understand and will do whatever we can to help you with the steep learning curve. Take it one step at a time and then you will feel more comfortable which will help the kitty feel more comfortable. I was really worried about the poking and the injections too. When I was able to relax, Radar could feel my vibe and he relaxed. It also really helps the cat to give really yummy lo carb treats after the pokes. Radar loves pieces of freeze dried chicken hearts. When I started giving him meat, he was a better alarm clock than my alarm clock. Now, Radar jumps up on the table at testing time and he purrs when I poke him. You'll both get into a routine and it will all become much more smooth. One more thing to know... there are very few pain receptors in a cat's ear so the cat is not being hurt with all those pokes to keep them safe. It was mostly me that felt bad at first. When I got over the mental block, the whole thing was easier. Without the wonderful community here I don't know where we'd be with all this. Don't worry. You are not alone. Let us know what we can do to help.
Sharon14
Member Since 2015
I was worried too about hurting my baby when I first began the ear pricks! Now he comes whenever I sit in our testing chair and if I can't find him, I can shake the test strip container and he comes running. Give him lots of love and low carb treats when you test and he'll learn to love testing time.
There is a lot to learn and it can get overwhelming at times, but as Jan said, take a deep breath we're here to help when you need us.
There is a lot to learn and it can get overwhelming at times, but as Jan said, take a deep breath we're here to help when you need us.
Tuxedo Mom
Member Since 2014
When I first started with my first FD kitty he was howling and trying to run and hide and I was crying about hurting him. Because it was SO important to do this testing, I kept at it. I learned to relax and talk softly to my Tuxie and if it failed the first time I would gives him some pats and hugs, but mainly a treat..he is VERY food motivated. I have a light right at my usual test area. Now anytime I turn the light on he runs over to his mat and sits down and starts purring, waiting for the test.....even if it isn't time . I read these sort of stories on this site when I first started with testing and thought...maybe other people's kitties...but that will never happen with mine. Guess what...I was wrong 
I still remember the first few weeks and wondering if I would be able to handle all the testing, shooting and monitoring and how frustrated and scared I was. Now I have two diabetic kitties and I can do my morning test and shots with only one eye half open. It REALLY does get easier.
. I read these sort of stories on this site when I first started with testing and thought...maybe other people's kitties...but that will never happen with mine. Guess what...I was wrong I still remember the first few weeks and wondering if I would be able to handle all the testing, shooting and monitoring and how frustrated and scared I was. Now I have two diabetic kitties and I can do my morning test and shots with only one eye half open. It REALLY does get easier.
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Keep a very watchful eye on the inflammation. If it starts healing well Zucchini's BG levels could go down and his insulin dose may need to be reduced.
Mogs
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greenbean
Member Since 2016
what kind of treats do you guys use to give to your kitties after testing?
I am returning to the vet tomorrow and will ask her for a paper prescription so that I can purchase the insulin online for a cheaper price. Do I have to be concerned with quality when purchasing from an online retailer?
I gave Zucchini both his injections today. I don't think he even felt the needle.
I've tried testing his blood, but other than the first day, have been unsuccessful in the pricking process. I've watched some youtube videos on it.
I will talk to the vet about it tomorrow - hopefully she'll provide guidance.
I am returning to the vet tomorrow and will ask her for a paper prescription so that I can purchase the insulin online for a cheaper price. Do I have to be concerned with quality when purchasing from an online retailer?
I gave Zucchini both his injections today. I don't think he even felt the needle.
I've tried testing his blood, but other than the first day, have been unsuccessful in the pricking process. I've watched some youtube videos on it.
I will talk to the vet about it tomorrow - hopefully she'll provide guidance.
Erica & Carter
Member Since 2016
If you're purchasing from Mark's Marine Pharmacy in Canada, you can skip that step and have your vet fax the prescription directly to them. Or, like with me, they sent my vet a prescription request form via fax and then she faxed them back the prescription.
There is no difference in quality. The price is different because in Canada the way drugs are taxed is different, therefore pharmacies can afford to buy large amounts of Lantus at cost, and sell for much cheaper than it is in the US. There is a video on their website that explains this further, and shows you how they package it.
This is a real pharmacy, that just happens to have a website and delivers to the United States, not to be confused with online phamracies such as 1800pedmeds, etc. I know this because they are actually located in the city where I'm from, I've driven by there several times but didn't realize they were the same pharmarcy until I needed to purchase my Lantus from the US.
Some of the best treats for diabetics are "single ingredient" treats, like freeze-tried turkey, chicken etc. I feed my boys Whole Life and Pure Bites
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Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Hiya,
Great to hear you got on OK with the injections!
Here are some links to help you with testing:
Testing and injecting tips (check out the ear diagram)
Home testing links and tips
Try warming the ear for a lot longer than you think might be necessary. Also, every time you poke, even if you don't get a blood sample it will encourage more capillaries to form at the test sites and gradually it will become easier to get the droplet for testing. If you're not already doing so try applying a very thin film of Vaseline to the test area. This will help the blood sample to bead up ready for testing instead of wicking into the fur.
On kitty food rewards, freeze-dried protein treats are ideal. If you're in the US I think Pure Bites is an available brand on your side of the water.
Mogs
.
Great to hear you got on OK with the injections!
Here are some links to help you with testing:
Testing and injecting tips (check out the ear diagram)
Home testing links and tips
Try warming the ear for a lot longer than you think might be necessary. Also, every time you poke, even if you don't get a blood sample it will encourage more capillaries to form at the test sites and gradually it will become easier to get the droplet for testing. If you're not already doing so try applying a very thin film of Vaseline to the test area. This will help the blood sample to bead up ready for testing instead of wicking into the fur.
On kitty food rewards, freeze-dried protein treats are ideal. If you're in the US I think Pure Bites is an available brand on your side of the water.
Mogs
.
greenbean
Member Since 2016
I brought Zucchini in for his follow up. I was told not to give him his evening injection before I brought him. He did have a small meal before we left. His glucose tested at 455 on the vet's glucometer. I also brought mine for comparison- the glucose tested at 348 on my Relion meter.- So there was a difference of about 100 points between the Relion and the vet's meter.
Otherwise, they want to keep Zucchini on the 1 unit and test him again in a week and a half to see how he responds to the insulin. They do not want to raise his insulin just yet, since it could be dangerous.
The vet said he would be happy to give me a paper perscription so that I could order the insulin online to save a little $$.
I've noticed a significant decrease in Zucchini's appetite since starting him on the insulin. He weighed the same at the vet office though.
Otherwise, they want to keep Zucchini on the 1 unit and test him again in a week and a half to see how he responds to the insulin. They do not want to raise his insulin just yet, since it could be dangerous.
The vet said he would be happy to give me a paper perscription so that I could order the insulin online to save a little $$.
I've noticed a significant decrease in Zucchini's appetite since starting him on the insulin. He weighed the same at the vet office though.
Jan Radar (GA)
Member Since 2015
Glad to hear that the vet visit went well. It's always nice when the vet is willing to work with us to help save $$. Did the vet take a look at Zucchini's mouth?
Remember that the high BG number at the vet's office could be a stress induced number. My cat's BG in the vet's office can be 150 points higher because he's so stressed. This is why it's so important to test at home where the cat is much more relaxed and the BG reading is much more accurate. Making dosing decisions based on at home testing is much more reliable, in my experience.
You are doing great, greenbean. Sending you
and chin scritches for Zucchini to help you both feel better.
Misterbeesmom
Member Since 2016
origen freeze dried treats. they're excellent. mr biddles goes bonkers for them. i've had excellent luck with those treats in the past if i needed to trick him into taking pills. i could break them in half, stick a pill in it, and then smush it back together. eats it right up!
i havent tried yet but have ordered ziwipeak air dried cat food to use as treats.
Misterbeesmom
Member Since 2016
pat yourself on the back you're doing a great job!
greenbean
Member Since 2016
Regarding the injection site: I was using an area of skin along his back that had a lot of give, tenting this area and injecting there. This morning, his posture made it easier for me to tent the area of skin around the back of his neck. Does it matter where I put the shot?
Critter Mom
Member Since 2014
Brilliant photos! Thank you so much for sharing them with us.
That one with the Kleenex box is absolutely priceless!!! Looks like Zucchini wants to be an astrocat when he grows up!
Mogs
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That one with the Kleenex box is absolutely priceless!!! Looks like Zucchini wants to be an astrocat when he grows up!
Mogs
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