Update Smiffy

[Looby & Smiffy]

@Marlena @Elizabeth and Bertie @Critter Mom

So here I am - I have started a new thread for Smiffy ...... thank you Marlena for joining me on Skype and thank you all for your support so far ...

I am keeping to the Hills m/d food for Smiffy as I have 5kg of it and she loves it with a little thrive protein treat on top. I have got the AccuChek Aviva ordinary glucometer and I am going to get my Therapist to help me work out how to use it but I don't anticipate using it every day on Smiffy but have it for emergencies if she is acting out of character. She is looking well today and has been out into the garden and purring and she has what a call her 'smile' on her face . We have booked her to see the Vet for a recheck on Friday 6th May when he will weigh her again and do another fructosamine test I think as well as doing her BG which at 1.15 in the afternoon will be interesting as it will be nearly half way through her cycle.

I know that the normal range BG is between 5-8 so my question is what reading is too low and would be a hypo?

If she appeared unwell somehow I would test her but I don't know what too low is and would hate to put loads of honey round her gums and make matters worse! I would feed her the other biscuits that we have that are higher in carbs (Hills i/d) as well as put the honey around her gums?

How would I know if she were dangerously high in short? I can't digest the long list that Elizabeth sent me - bit too much for me. I would then test her and then what would I have to do? The Vet said that she has lived with high blood sugar for a while so if I missed a couple of shots for example it would not be ideal but she would not be in danger.



The other thing is I am still a bit in the dark as to how you girls home manage your cats' Diabetes ..... I have heard 'test, feed, shoot' so I am asssuming that you do the BG test first, then give her normal amount of food and then either don't shoot if she has a low BG or reduce the dose if it is a bit raised? Do you adjust the food you give your cats and the dose of insulin according to the BG reading?

These are enough questions for the time being!!!

I will try to get my husnband to print out Elizabeth's notes on what to do in an emergency all the same xxxx

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Hi Looby,

Well done for starting a new thread.

Can I just check: Do you mean that you found the info in the Hypo document too long? Or did you find my post here too long? My cat Smiffy diagnosed with Diabetes April UK

Eliz

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

I know that the normal range BG is between 5-8 so my question is what reading is too low and would be a hypo?

The normal range for a non-diabetic cat is approximately 2.7 to 7.2 on a human glucose meter. Some cats run naturally a bit lower or higher than that.

For a cat on insulin, we'd certainly consider 2.2 or lower (on a human meter) to be hypoglycemic.
But some cats will show hypo symptoms at numbers a bit higher than this.

There is a general 'rule of thumb' on FDMB that we should aim to keep cats' blood glucose above 2.7 mmol (50 mg/dL).
But my own feeling is that with certain insulins, such as Caninsulin, we should aim - at least initially - to not let the blood glucose drop below 5 mmol.
'5' is a perfectly safe number, but Caninsulin can drop the blood glucose quite fast, so trying to not let the BG drop below 5 gives some buffer of safety.
.

 

[Olive & Paula]

Glad you are making progress. Keep taking g baby steps.

As far as feeding here is what I do. Now remember everyone e does it different.

7am. Alarm goes off, I get up. Smokey is usually waiting by the table. I pull the food and insulin out of the fridge. I put the towel on the table, put Smokey up on it, poke his ear. I measure out Smokey food and fix all 3 kitties plates.

While Smokey is actually eating I give his insulin.

If your using an insulin like Vetsulin you feed 30 minutes prior to giving.
Hope this helps some.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Hi Looby,

Well done for starting a new thread.

Can I just check: Do you mean that you found the info in the Hypo document too long? Or did you find my post here too long? My cat Smiffy diagnosed with Diabetes April UK

Eliz

I found the Hypo document too long but I have asked Malcolm to print it out for me as I am a paper kind of a person really to digest things! Really wanted a paraphrase really xx

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Glad you are making progress. Keep taking g baby steps.

As far as feeding here is what I do. Now remember everyone e does it different.

7am. Alarm goes off, I get up. Smokey is usually waiting by the table. I pull the food and insulin out of the fridge. I put the towel on the table, put Smokey up on it, poke his ear. I measure out Smokey food and fix all 3 kitties plates.

While Smokey is actually eating I give his insulin.

If your using an insulin like Vetsulin you feed 30 minutes prior to giving.
Hope this helps some.

I was told to give her the Caninsulin half way through her eating ie so that she had some food on board before I shoot her @Elizabeth and Bertie xxxxx

 

[Diana&Tom]

I found the Hypo document too long but I have asked Malcolm to print it out for me as I am a paper kind of a person really to digest things! Really wanted a paraphrase really xx

That's why I suggested writing things down with pen and paper, taking notes as it used to be called. Or, on a print-out, use a coloured highlighter pen to mark the essential content.

Diana

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

I found the Hypo document too long but I have asked Malcolm to print it out for me as I am a paper kind of a person really to digest things! Really wanted a paraphrase really xx

The normal range for a non-diabetic cat is approximately 2.7 to 7.2 on a human glucose meter. Some cats run naturally a bit lower or higher than that.

For a cat on insulin, we'd certainly consider 2.2 or lower (on a human meter) to be hypoglycemic.
But some cats will show hypo symptoms at numbers a bit higher than this.

There is a general 'rule of thumb' on FDMB that we should aim to keep cats' blood glucose above 2.7 mmol (50 mg/dL).
But my own feeling is that with certain insulins, such as Caninsulin, we should aim - at least initially - to not let the blood glucose drop below 5 mmol.
'5' is a perfectly safe number, but Caninsulin can drop the blood glucose quite fast, so trying to not let the BG drop below 5 gives some buffer of safety.
.

So in short what would I do if I saw her behaviour look like hypo - test her first and see if she is below 2.7 then put the honey around her gums and feed her some higher carb food or just the lower carb food or no food at all?

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

That's why I suggested writing things down with pen and paper, taking notes as it used to be called. Or, on a print-out, use a coloured highlighter pen to mark the essential content.

Diana

I am going to do that once my husband has printed it out But in short if her blood is below 2.2 and she is Hypo what do I do? Put sugar round her gums I know but DO I FEED HER SOME HIGH CARBS TOO or HER DIABETIC LOW CARB FOOD or NO FOOD AT ALL?

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

So in short what would I do if I saw her behaviour look like hypo - test her first and see if she is below 2.7 then put the honey around her gums and feed her some higher carb food or just the lower carb food or no food at all?

With Caninsulin, definitely give honey if 2.7 or below.
I'd suggest you try to keep the blood glucose above 5 if possible.

Dry food isn't ideal (but could be used in an emergency where you have nothing else).
Honey works quickly. And if it wears off it can be repeated as necessary.
.

 

[Diana&Tom]

If she is below 2.2 then definitely give glucose, no shot, and test again 30 minutes later. If still going down give food. Keep testing until the BG starts to rise.

Diana

 

[Olive & Paula]

I was told to give her the Caninsulin half way through her eating ie so that she had some food on board before I shoot her @Elizabeth and Bertie xxxxx

Correct. You want food on board before giving Vetsulin.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

With Caninsulin, definitely give honey if 2.7 or below.
I'd suggest you try to keep the blood glucose above 5 if possible.

Dry food isn't ideal (but could be used in an emergency where you have nothing else).
Honey works quickly. And if it wears off it can be repeated as necessary.
.

Have just read through the file that you sent me and it has sunk in a bit better now ... if I see any symptoms. I rub honey into the gums or mix it with some higher carb food (in my case Hills i/d - COULD I USED FELIX NORMAL WET FOOD TO SEE IF SHE WOULD EAT IT?) and test in another 20minutes or so and not give her insulin and probably in my case then call the Vet .......and if they can't send somebody out or I can't get in a taxi then keep testing until she is at a normal level but don't put more insulin into her until spoken to the Vet ..... could I try felix on her or an Encore sachet that has rice and fish in it?

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Correct. You want food on board before giving Vetsulin.

But I don't wait for 30 minutes after she has eaten like you, I was told to give it to her whilst she is eating but after she has got at least half way through her food ...

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

But I don't wait for 30 minutes after she has eaten like you, I was told to give it to her whilst she is eating but after she has got at least half way through her food ...

There's more than one way of doing it, Looby.
You have options...
1. Feed 20 - 30 mins before the insulin shot.
2. Feed, and then give the insulin shot.
3. Feed, and give the insulin while she's still eating (as long as you're comfortable that she is going to eat that food)

But the important thing is that Smiffy has food 'on board' for when the insulin kicks in.

.

 

[Diana&Tom]

No insulin after a suspected hypo until the BG is well and truly rising and when at a number that you would have to ascertain as being safe to shoot, maybe just a token dose. Sorry that's not very informative but this is where we need BG data over a period of time to see a pattern.
Yes you could try Felix but I don't think it's particularly high in carbs is it? I thought that it - and Whiskas, the varieties in jelly - were lowish although it's true that the gravy varieties are higher carb. And just a thought, but if you think Smiffy would eat Felix or Encore, in gravy, you could try transitioning her to a wet diet that way (not just yet, while she is on a prescribed insulin dose and you're not testing). I would expect that even the gravy varieties are lower carb than dry food.

Diana

 

[Olive & Paula]

But I don't wait for 30 minutes after she has eaten like you, I was told to give it to her whilst she is eating but after she has got at least half way through her food ...

It's fine. As long as food is in her. I was told 30 minutes so that's what I did.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Have just read through the file that you sent me and it has sunk in a bit better now ... if I see any symptoms. I rub honey into the gums or mix it with some higher carb food (in my case Hills i/d - COULD I USED FELIX NORMAL WET FOOD TO SEE IF SHE WOULD EAT IT?) and test in another 20minutes or so and not give her insulin and probably in my case then call the Vet .......and if they can't send somebody out or I can't get in a taxi then keep testing until she is at a normal level but don't put more insulin into her until spoken to the Vet ..... could I try felix on her or an Encore sachet that has rice and fish in it?

Most hypo situations can be managed at home, as long as the caregiver is able to test and can give honey/glucose or food as necessary.
If the caregiver is unable to test, or isn't confident about handling the hypo, then it's probably best to give honey/glucose and then take the cat to a vet.

Is it right that Smiffy doesn't like any wet food?
Or would she lap up gravy?
If she'd eat gravy then it could be worth your getting a couple of tins of Gourmet Gold 'in gravy' foods to keep in the cupboard along with the Hypo document.
See this post:UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit.
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Most hypo situations can be managed at home, as long as the caregiver is able to test and can give honey/glucose or food as necessary.
If the caregiver is unable to test, or isn't confident about handling the hypo, then it's probably best to give honey/glucose and then take the cat to a vet.

Is it right that Smiffy doesn't like any wet food?
Or would she lap up gravy?
If she'd eat gravy then it could be worth your getting a couple of tins of Gourmet Gold 'in gravy' foods to keep in the cupboard along with the Hypo document.
See this post:UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit.
.

She doesn't like gravy and doesn't eat wet food generally but she used to nibble at Pasha's felix and the Encore rice and fish ... she would hate gravy .. we used to put our dinner plates on the floor after dinner and she would go up to the plate sometimes but never really lick very much ... only did it because she was jealous of Pasha who would lap it up .....

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

No insulin after a suspected hypo until the BG is well and truly rising and when at a number that you would have to ascertain as being safe to shoot, maybe just a token dose. Sorry that's not very informative but this is where we need BG data over a period of time to see a pattern.
Yes you could try Felix but I don't think it's particularly high in carbs is it? I thought that it - and Whiskas, the varieties in jelly - were lowish although it's true that the gravy varieties are higher carb. And just a thought, but if you think Smiffy would eat Felix or Encore, in gravy, you could try transitioning her to a wet diet that way (not just yet, while she is on a prescribed insulin dose and you're not testing). I would expect that even the gravy varieties are lower carb than dry food.

Diana

She licks it and eats a bit just because she is jealous of Pasha eating it - she wouldn't eat it as a daily routine but she might try it in an emergency - I have felix in jelly (75% fish or meat) and Encore in tins that is 75% fish and Encore sachets that are also 75% fish with rice ..... used to feed them to Pasha or use them to get her in at night ... Smiffy would only nibble at them ..... she is on dry food for now on a daily basis - I can't change that yet ... she seems to be having a low at the moment 8 hours after giving her insulin.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

... she seems to be having a low at the moment 8 hours after giving her insulin.

What symptoms are you seeing, exactly?
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

With Caninsulin, definitely give honey if 2.7 or below.
I'd suggest you try to keep the blood glucose above 5 if possible.

Dry food isn't ideal (but could be used in an emergency where you have nothing else).
Honey works quickly. And if it wears off it can be repeated as necessary.
.

Smiffy is lethargic NOW 8 hours after her Caninsulin Igave her a snack a while 3 hours ago .... if I put honey on her gums now - I could give her too much sugar to go into her blood couldn't I if I am wrong that she is low ... don't know how to test yet .... she could be lethargic because she has high blood sugar as the insulin has run out in her body? If I give her honey I could make her BG higher?

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

What symptoms are you seeing, exactly?
.

She is sleepy .... wouldn't beg for her treat as normal and is just sleeping now on her cat nip - no energy ...usually has a roll .... she was lively this morning now very lethargic ... not shaking .... if she has run out of insulin from the Catsulin she might have high BG in which case I would make things worse by giving her honey ... could give her some more biscuits from tonights ration>?

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

Is this kind of 'lethargy' abnormal for her?
Could she just be 'being a cat'..? (I've got three of them sprawled all over the office floor here....)

If you stroke or brush her does she respond to you?
Does she feel 'floppy'?
Do her eyes look normal?
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

She is sleepy .... wouldn't beg for her treat as normal and is just sleeping now on her cat nip - no energy ...usually has a roll .... she was lively this morning now very lethargic ... not shaking .... if she has run out of insulin from the Catsulin she might have high BG in which case I would make things worse by giving her honey ... could give her some more biscuits from tonights ration>?

She has perked up now ... just gave her a little snack of m/d and she is now in the garden so can't be that bed @Elizabeth and Bertie?

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Is this kind of 'lethargy' abnormal for her?
Could she just be 'being a cat'..? (I've got three of them sprawled all over the office floor here....)

If you stroke or brush her does she respond to you?
Does she feel 'floppy'?
Do her eyes look normal?
.

Everything looks normal now ... she has just asked to go out into the garden after I gave her about 8 little biscuits .. think she was just having a nap .. God I am paranoid now !!!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

God I am paranoid now !!!

Ha-ha!

...Seriously though, you're not paranoid, you're just trying to be vigilant.
But, unless there are clear unequivocal hypo symptoms it is impossible to tell - just by looking at a cat - if their blood glucose levels are high or low.... This is the difficulty. And this is why it's so useful to have a glucose meter.
Instead of worrying about what might be the case, you can establish what is the case, and do away with the guesswork...
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

She has been outside and I have stroked her and she responded and now looks as if she doesn't know what to do ... she doesn't like the neighbours ... her eyes look OK and she is kneading in her bed now but not purring ... give her some slightly higher carb biscuits .. she is obviously hungry ... I mentioned this to the Vet last week and he said that she will feel a bit funny at times still ... speaking of which I am starving .. my BG is a bit low now ....

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Ha-ha!

...Seriously though, you're not paranoid, you're just trying to be vigilant.
But, unless there are clear unequivocal hypo symptoms it is impossible to tell - just by looking at a cat - if their blood glucose levels are high or low.... This is the difficulty. And this is why it's so useful to have a glucose meter.
Instead of worrying about what might be the case, you can establish what is the case, and do away with the guesswork...
.

Yes I know ... she is waddling to the litter tray now having a wee ...... I will know how to use the glucometer after Wednesday .. I need to eat now ... I'm off ... thank you

 

[Marlena]

Well done Looby @Looby
We have a new post.
You could start a new one tomorrow and let us know how Smiffy is doing.
In the meantime (tonight) you could update us here.
Hugs
Marlena

 

[Sieden]

I've always fed, waited 30 minutes and then tested. I adjust the dose according to his numbers after feeding.

 

[Critter Mom]

Great that you've got hold of a glucometer, Looby! I hope that just knowing it's in the house and that you can get help here if you need to use it will give you some little bit of peace of mind.

With regard to feeding before Caninsulin, especially with dry food in the mix I'd be inclined to make sure the cat had finished the meal about 20-30 minutes before giving the insulin injection. It takes a little longer for dry food carbs to get into the system and I would feel more comfortable knowing that the carbs had a bit of a 'head start' before the Caninsulin dose was due to really kick in so that the insulin would have some carbs to go to work on in the early part of the cycle when Caninsulin is typically at its most powerful period of effect.

You need to work on the BG number BEFORE feeding when deciding whether or not it is safe to give the insulin. Tests done after the meal will be food-influenced and therefore do not provide a sound basis for judging whether or not it is safe to give the dose.

With regard to what to feed when numbers are low, I found it helpful to think of the different types of food and what effect they have:

1. Honey/glucose syrup: usually raises BG levels quickly but wears off quickly.

2. Gravy from wet, carby food: , low carb food: doesn't give as big a boost to BG levels but gets into the bloodstream fairly quickly and stays in the system a bit longer than honey. Doesn't fill the cat up in case it needs to eat later in the cycle to keep numbers up.

3. Wet, low carb food: doesn't do much to raise BG levels but feeding small, frequent amounts can keep levels 'ticking over'. (Better used to help a cat in OK numbers to 'surf' at that level, not to raise BG from too low a level - IMO more helpful for those using L insulins.)

4. Dry, high carb food: takes a while for the carbs to get into the bloodstream so won't boost numbers quickly. Carbs hang around longer in the system so may keep numbers higher for a while.

(@Elizabeth and Bertie - can you review the above to see whether it's a fair summary of the effects the different types of have, please?)



Mogs
.

 

[Critter Mom]

I've always fed, waited 30 minutes and then tested. I adjust the dose according to his numbers after feeding.

In order to determine whether it is safe to give the insulin the dosing decision should be made on the fasting BG level, not on the BG level after the cat has eaten. The latter will be food-influenced.


Mogs
.

 

[Sieden]

Critter Mom, thank you so much for correcting me. Testing, injecting and then feeding is what I have been doing but I was first taught to do it the other way around (feed, test, inject). I completely understand what you were saying about it being food influenced and that's why I changed the order that I do it now, because it makes more sense. I do wonder though when I first started and did it the other way around, that's when I got my cat into remission within 1.5 months and now that I'm doing it the way that you said, I can't seem to get a handle on it, well at least not as fast as I would like to. I do free feed but when it's insulin time, he's always been asleep for several hours. Should I just stop free feeding to be sure or does it have something to do with the insulin that I'm using? Thank you.

 

[Critter Mom]

@Sieden -
Regardless of the insulin type, the ideal is to remove food for 2 hours before the preshot test to determine the fasting blood glucose level with the preshot BG test. Thereafter the feeding schedule/method should be what works for both the insulin in use and for the cat's needs. Which insulin are you using? (Love the picture of your kitty, BTW. )

On trying to achieve second remission, from what I've read here I believe it can be much trickier second time around.


Mogs
.

 

[Sieden]

@Mogs

Thank you for the compliment, I call him my handsome little man I just love him so much. Your cat is gorgeous too, stunning eyes.
I am using Lantus, twice a day. Okay I want to make sure that I get this right, as long as he hasn't eaten for 2 hours then I treat him as fasted and go ahead and test him, then feed him, then shoot him?
I want to make sure that I start following things to a T and yes, I'm having so much more difficult this time around

 

[Critter Mom]

Your cat is gorgeous too, stunning eyes.

Thank you! Saoirse's eyes have always been very beautiful. Sad to say that Saoirse only has one eye now; she had an intraocular haemorrhage in her right eye a few months ago followed by secondary glaucoma. Consequently it had to be removed. I still lose myself in the left one.

Okay I want to make sure that I get this right, as long as he hasn't eaten for 2 hours then I treat him as fasted and go ahead and test him, then feed him, then shoot him?

Yep. That's spot-on.

There's a very active Lantus support group on FDMB. Here's a link:

Lantus & Levemir Insulin Support Group

There are lots of really informative stickies at the top of the board. Also there are some highly experienced members in the group who may be able to do a lot to help you get Peanut better regulated on his second round of insulin treatment.


Mogs
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Great that you've got hold of a glucometer, Looby! I hope that just knowing it's in the house and that you can get help here if you need to use it will give you some little bit of peace of mind.

With regard to feeding before Caninsulin, especially with dry food in the mix I'd be inclined to make sure the cat had finished the meal about 20-30 minutes before giving the insulin injection. It takes a little longer for dry food carbs to get into the system and I would feel more comfortable knowing that the carbs had a bit of a 'head start' before the Caninsulin dose was due to really kick in so that the insulin would have some carbs to go to work on in the early part of the cycle when Caninsulin is typically at its most powerful period of effect.

You need to work on the BG number BEFORE feeding when deciding whether or not it is safe to give the insulin. Tests done after the meal will be food-influenced and therefore do not provide a sound basis for judging whether or not it is safe to give the dose.

With regard to what to feed when numbers are low, I found it helpful to think of the different types of food and what effect they have:

1. Honey/glucose syrup: usually raises BG levels quickly but wears off quickly.

2. Gravy from wet, carby food: , low carb food: doesn't give as big a boost to BG levels but gets into the bloodstream fairly quickly and stays in the system a bit longer than honey. Doesn't fill the cat up in case it needs to eat later in the cycle to keep numbers up.

3. Wet, low carb food: doesn't do much to raise BG levels but feeding small, frequent amounts can keep levels 'ticking over'. (Better used to help a cat in OK numbers to 'surf' at that level, not to raise BG from too low a level - IMO more helpful for those using L insulins.)

4. Dry, high carb food: takes a while for the carbs to get into the bloodstream so won't boost numbers quickly. Carbs hang around longer in the system so may keep numbers higher for a while.

(@Elizabeth and Bertie - can you review the above to see whether it's a fair summary of the effects the different types of have, please?)



Mogs
.

So in English food brand terms @Elizabeth and Bertie , I need to get some whisk as in gravy that she might like to lick as opposed to the felix in jelly that I already have in the house? Critter Mom, I won't be testing before I feed her and adjusting insulin doses just yet ..... Just have the glucometer for emergencies for now ....... What is IMO? PS What's in the gravy of wet carry food?

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Well done Looby @Looby
We have a new post.
You could start a new one tomorrow and let us know how Smiffy is doing.
In the meantime (tonight) you could update us here.
Hugs
Marlena

She was still a bit sleepy tonight and didn't quite finish her food so has had less than her 70g today ..... I really hope she is not going off the m/d as I have 5kg of it ...... I will always do the best for Smiffy but have to TRY to justify costs to husband! He always says Oh she is OK and also doesn't believe in sites like this!!! He doesn't know yet that I have spent £50 on glucometer and strips?
@elizabeth I suppose she has been more active in the mornings for a couple of years now thinking about it .... Malcolm said she followed him right down to his garden office this morning and I saw her going into next door'sgarden and sitting on her favourite slab I our garden next to the catnip shrub ...... She hasn't climbed onto fences for some time now .... I thought she was limping a bit because of a bit of arthritis in the hind leg where she dislocated her knee when she was two and had some metal put in but I'm thinking now her 'hobble' has more to do with her diabetes .... Maybe that's why she doesn't spend so much time in our gardens now as there are a lot of other cats about that she can't escape from by jumping on a fence? She was quite bright for a while tonight after I fed her ....

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

I really hope she is not going off the m/d as I have 5kg of it .

Buying cat food in bulk is a pretty good way to ensure that the cat never wants to eat it ever again....

I will always do the best for Smiffy but have to TRY to justify costs to husband! ... He doesn't know yet that I have spent £50 on glucometer and strips?

Money spent at this point (in the cats' diabetes diagnosis) can be a very good investment. With good care, and appropriate management, many cats will go into remission; and that means less money spent in the future.....
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Buying cat food in bulk is a pretty good way to ensure that the cat never wants to eat it ever again....


Money spent at this point (in the cats' diabetes diagnosis) can be a very good investment. With good care, and appropriate management, many cats will go into remission; and that means less money spent in the future.....
.

I agree .... shall I get some whiskers in gravy to have in the cupboard .... don't worry I am spending the money just not necessarily letting on to husband!!!!!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

...shall I get some whiskers in gravy to have in the cupboard

According to one of your previous posts, Looby, that might not be any use, as Smiffy doesn't like gravy....?

I wrote:
Is it right that Smiffy doesn't like any wet food?
Or would she lap up gravy?
If she'd eat gravy then it could be worth your getting a couple of tins of Gourmet Gold 'in gravy' foods to keep in the cupboard along with the Hypo document.
See this post:UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit.

And you responded:
She doesn't like gravy and doesn't eat wet food generally but she used to nibble at Pasha's felix and the Encore rice and fish ... she would hate gravy ..

Link to your post is here: Update Smiffy

When dealing with a low numbers situation you need food that the cat will eat (or which you are able to syringe feed).....

Eliz

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

With regard to what to feed when numbers are low, I found it helpful to think of the different types of food and what effect they have:

1. Honey/glucose syrup: usually raises BG levels quickly but wears off quickly.

2. Gravy from wet, carby food: , low [high?] carb food: doesn't give as big a boost to BG levels but gets into the bloodstream fairly quickly and stays in the system a bit longer than honey. Doesn't fill the cat up in case it needs to eat later in the cycle to keep numbers up.

3. Wet, low carb food: doesn't do much to raise BG levels but feeding small, frequent amounts can keep levels 'ticking over'. (Better used to help a cat in OK numbers to 'surf' at that level, not to raise BG from too low a level - IMO more helpful for those using L insulins.)

4. Dry, high carb food: takes a while for the carbs to get into the bloodstream so won't boost numbers quickly. Carbs hang around longer in the system so may keep numbers higher for a while.

(@Elizabeth and Bertie - can you review the above to see whether it's a fair summary of the effects the different types of have, please?)

Yes, Mogs, IMO that's a very fair summary.

Though re '4', there are folks here who've found that the dry food did kick in quite quickly (maybe it's an ECID thing, or to do with the formulation of the particular dry food...?) In my own experience the dry food has taken longer, exactly as you've said above.
And as you say, the carbs from dry food seem to hang around longer. This can exacerbate any subsequent bounce that comes from the the low numbers.

Incidentally though, I have occasionally seen dry food used to good effect; usually in cats on long lasting insulins where there were low numbers early in the cycle, but the caregiver wasn't going to be around to test much later on.

Eliz

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

What is IMO

In My Opinion.
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

According to one of your previous posts, Looby, that might not be any use, as Smiffy doesn't like gravy....?

I wrote:
Is it right that Smiffy doesn't like any wet food?
Or would she lap up gravy?
If she'd eat gravy then it could be worth your getting a couple of tins of Gourmet Gold 'in gravy' foods to keep in the cupboard along with the Hypo document.
See this post:UK, high carb gravy food for Hypo Kit.

And you responded:
She doesn't like gravy and doesn't eat wet food generally but she used to nibble at Pasha's felix and the Encore rice and fish ... she would hate gravy ..

Link to your post is here: Update Smiffy

When dealing with a low numbers situation you need food that the cat will eat (or which you are able to syringe feed).....

Eliz

Yes you are right I have contradicted myself ... but I was thinking about it and when she used to nibble at Pasha's wet food she was only licking the wet stuff as opposed to eatin the meat ...are Gourmet Gold in gravy better then whiskers? I have put the Gourmet Gold on the shopping list just in case ... she hates the gravy that we have on our plates but it is worth having them ... thank you

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Yes, Mogs, IMO that's a very fair summary.

Though re '4', there are folks here who've found that the dry food did kick in quite quickly (maybe it's an ECID thing, or to do with the formulation of the particular dry food...?) In my own experience the dry food has taken longer, exactly as you've said above.
And as you say, the carbs from dry food seem to hang around longer. This can exacerbate any subsequent bounce that comes from the the low numbers.

Incidentally though, I have occasionally seen dry food used to good effect; usually in cats on long lasting insulins where there were low numbers early in the cycle, but the caregiver wasn't going to be around to test much later on.

Eliz

I have got honey and I have got Encore fish with rice which is high in carbs, and I have felix in jelly and pates which are both high in protein and I have Hill's m/d which is dry and higher in carbs than the m/d ...... actually I think it is so long since we had wet food down now and she is a bit hungry between her two meals and one snack that if she was poorly she would instinctively eat something or lick something if it had a strong smell don't you think? Well I have put the gourmet in gravy tins on the shopping list ......

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Yes, Mogs, IMO that's a very fair summary.

Though re '4', there are folks here who've found that the dry food did kick in quite quickly (maybe it's an ECID thing, or to do with the formulation of the particular dry food...?) In my own experience the dry food has taken longer, exactly as you've said above.
And as you say, the carbs from dry food seem to hang around longer. This can exacerbate any subsequent bounce that comes from the the low numbers.

Incidentally though, I have occasionally seen dry food used to good effect; usually in cats on long lasting insulins where there were low numbers early in the cycle, but the caregiver wasn't going to be around to test much later on.

Eliz

"This can exacerbate any subseqent bounce that comes from the low numbers" I don't understand in the context of what you are saying .. can you word it in lay terms for me?!!! Actuall the whole of that last paragraph doesn't make sense to me!

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

"This can exacerbate any subseqent bounce that comes from the low numbers" I don't understand in the context of what you are saying .. can you word it in lay terms for me?!!! Actuall the whole of that last paragraph doesn't make sense to me!

Sorry, Looby, that was a reply to Mogs (Critter Mom). She'd asked me to review what she'd written to see if I thought it was a fair summary of the different foods and their use in raising blood glucose from low levels. I said I thought it was a very fair summary, and just added a couple of additional comments.
I apologise if I confused you....

"This can exacerbate any subseqent bounce that comes from the low numbers"

This refers to the fact that carbs from dry food seem to stay in the cat's system for a long time.

Often, after low numbers (or a hypo) the cat's own body will release stored glucose to raise the blood glucose level high. We refer to it as a 'bounce'. It's a protection mechanism.
But, if the cat's body releases stored glucose to raise the blood glucose level and there are also long-acting carbs in the system then those things combined may make the blood glucose even higher.
That's OK though, it's just a temporary effect.
.

 

[Looby & Smiffy]

Sorry, Looby, that was a reply to Mogs (Critter Mom). She'd asked me to review what she'd written to see if I thought it was a fair summary of the different foods and their use in raising blood glucose from low levels. I said I thought it was a very fair summary, and just added a couple of additional comments.
I apologise if I confused you....


This refers to the fact that carbs from dry food seem to stay in the cat's system for a long time.

Often, after low numbers (or a hypo) the cat's own body will release stored glucose to raise the blood glucose level high. We refer to it as a 'bounce'. It's a protection mechanism.
But, if the cat's body releases stored glucose to raise the blood glucose level and there are also long-acting carbs in the system then those things combined may make the blood glucose even higher.
That's OK though, it's just a temporary effect.
.

Crikey you ought to be a paid up Consultant on the subject ..... I have been on Facebook raising questions and I am a bit distressed as I have had a message from one of the Vetenary Nurses from my Vet's Surgery who found me through our local girls group and messaged me to say she would answer any questions ... she said that she has not known of many cats to go into remission !!!! The girls on Facebook are confirming things that you have said about Caninsulin being short lived and that wet food is the only food that will enable the Pancreas to rest so that it can start to produce beta cells again and so start to produce insulin by itself again and so the cat goes into remission ... I was asking two questions ..... how does a cat go into remission and one girl said that the low carb diet and the suppplement of insulin would allow the pancreas to rest and as I said just now start to produce beta cells again and then start to produce insulin itself and then the cat go into remission (sorry I am tired today so I am repeating myself!) Is that true? I wanted a short plain English explaination of how the pancreas starts to produce insulin again ....... why is wet low carb food so much better than dry? I get more and more worried each day that she is not on the right treatment ... one lady said that because Caninsulin was so short lived that I should be shooting more than once a day but I wouldn't dare risk it - I suppose ECID!

 

[Diana&Tom]

Ha ha, yes, Elizabeth should be a paid-for consultant on FD! She is quite simply brilliant, and a lovely person as well

I'd be inclined to post questions here, Looby, where you know we are all rooting for you and can give you solid advice as well as virtually 24/7 support thanks to our awesome members from around the globe. A more informed group of people you could not wish to find.

Diana