Just finished testing over the last several hours, not sure what to think...

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Lisa & Harry

Lisa & Harry

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Hi, moved to this forum from the intro forum. He was diagnosed about a week and a half ago. He gets 1 unit of PZI twice daily. I've been testing Harry every hour since his PM shot. His numbers are high. I thought I got a "low" at +4, but then at +6 I first got another "low" which I thought was odd. So I tested with two more strips and got numbers higher, but closer to one another. Not sure if he'll get lower, or not, but I can't really do this any longer tonight. Feeling sorry for his poor ear too. On Friday when I don't work I plan to start after the AM shot. I'm really worried about my meter readings now though and if they are truly accurate. Any thoughts? I have a link to his spreadsheet in my signature.
 
Hi Lisa! Welcome to the Prozinc forum. We're a small, but friendly group. We tend to be most active in the mornings and evenings, so if you have an emergency, I'd post both here and Health. That way, you'll get more eyes.

I spent some time catching up on your condo on the intro forum. Right now, we can't see your SS. Go back to your original and choose Share with anyone with the link. Then go to Publish to the web. Copy the URL that comes up and paste it into your signature. Those directions should help us see it...I stole them from an earlier post. I'm hopeless at techy stuff :joyful:

First off, you don't have to do a test each hour when doing a curve. I usually did a test every 2 hours from AM to PM shot when I did a curve. And you don't need a curve every week. Just every couple weeks maybe, or when we are trying to figure something out about his numbers.

I don't know about the meter. My thoughts are it's possible you didn't have enough blood? I used to occasionally get wonky numbers and I'd just retest. You use the AlphaTrak correct? I think there's a control solution...have you tested with that? Might post on Health and ask about getting strange numbers on that meter. I never used it, so I can't give much advice on it.

Once you get your SS up, we'll take a look and see if we can help you figure out a good dose. We're here to help you and Harry!
 
Thank you so much for your help! I think I've corrected the "sharing option on my sheet." Let me know if you still can't view it. Thanks!
 
Hi Lisa
first of all, Harry is gorgeous!! I can't give dosing advice but I use AlphaTrak2 and Prozinc. As far as the meter, make sure it is coded to the feline code on the vial with the strips and do test it out using the control solution that comes with the strip. When I first started out, I would get wonky numbers - as I was learning Sometimes it was because there was too little blood and sometimes because there was too much blood. One thing is for sure - the ear has to be warm. For me, using ointment seemed to clog up the meter and so since I have stopped using anything on his ears, testing has become much easier. It will get easier for you too
I can see your spreadsheet - good job. I am not sure why you think you are getting inaccurate meter readings - the high # after a meal are probably due to food, and it is likely that you will need to increase the dose of insulin. It does take a while for their bodies to adjust to the exogenous insulin - Look at Murphy's spread sheet from the beginning (click on 2015 tab and scroll up to the beginning and you will see how long it took him before things weren't so crazy. Remember - it's a marathon, not a sprint (I know that is easier said that done) hang in there, you are doing great!
 
Welcome! Yes, we can see it now. He is high. I' m glad Carol is advising you on the AT; she has lots of experience with it.


I'm with you - the one blue is most likely a bad reading. Most people here use ReliOn meters because they are inexpensive as are the strips. The AT matches your vet which can be a good thing. Do you know any diabetics? If so, borrow their meter, test Harry and then yourself. (The At is made for pets so testing you with it could not be accurate). Or get a ReliOn and a few strips (probably under $25) and test both of you. (It is always good to have a back up)

Once we know the readings are accurate, we can look closer at the dose. Are there any infections? Is he on any meds? It looks like the food is low carb; how long has he been on it?

We put together a protocol for ProZinc. It's in my signature in blue. Generally our first target are regulated numbers. Mid/lower 200s at preshot and low 100s or double digits for nadir. But not below 68 on your pet meter or 50 on the human meter- that is approaching hypo territory.

You can put Neosporin with pain relief on his ear to help with the poking.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
If so, borrow their meter, test Harry and then yourself. (The At is made for pets so testing you with it could not be accurate).
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I tested myself with the alpha trak 2 and got 140 once and 180 once (I am not diabetic or pre diabetic) so it shows the inaccuracy when using meters meant for different species. Human meters will read lower than the alpha trak, and lower than what the veterinary laboratory would get. (but the strips are cheaper so its a trade off) Except for that blue, I don't see anything suspicious about the meter readings (blacks, reds, and pinks) When I first started, I got several weird readings, that in retrospect were probably due to too little blood or clogging due to neosporin. If you use the control solution with the alpha trak and it is within the range on the vial of strips, you are okay.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hi Lisa
first of all, Harry is gorgeous!! I can't give dosing advice but I use AlphaTrak2 and Prozinc. As far as the meter, make sure it is coded to the feline code on the vial with the strips and do test it out using the control solution that comes with the strip. When I first started out, I would get wonky numbers - as I was learning Sometimes it was because there was too little blood and sometimes because there was too much blood. One thing is for sure - the ear has to be warm. For me, using ointment seemed to clog up the meter and so since I have stopped using anything on his ears, testing has become much easier. It will get easier for you too
I can see your spreadsheet - good job. I am not sure why you think you are getting inaccurate meter readings - the high # after a meal are probably due to food, and it is likely that you will need to increase the dose of insulin. It does take a while for their bodies to adjust to the exogenous insulin - Look at Murphy's spread sheet from the beginning (click on 2015 tab and scroll up to the beginning and you will see how long it took him before things weren't so crazy. Remember - it's a marathon, not a sprint (I know that is easier said that done) hang in there, you are doing great!
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I think I'm feeling better about the meter now. I do have it coded correctly. I think I'll just have to be more consistent with the amount of blood. It seems to vary, and maybe sometime I just rush. Also need to be sure not to use too much Neosporin. Thank you for your advice!
 
Rachel said:
Hi Lisa! Welcome to the Prozinc forum. We're a small, but friendly group. We tend to be most active in the mornings and evenings, so if you have an emergency, I'd post both here and Health. That way, you'll get more eyes.

I spent some time catching up on your condo on the intro forum. Right now, we can't see your SS. Go back to your original and choose Share with anyone with the link. Then go to Publish to the web. Copy the URL that comes up and paste it into your signature. Those directions should help us see it...I stole them from an earlier post. I'm hopeless at techy stuff :joyful:

First off, you don't have to do a test each hour when doing a curve. I usually did a test every 2 hours from AM to PM shot when I did a curve. And you don't need a curve every week. Just every couple weeks maybe, or when we are trying to figure something out about his numbers.

I don't know about the meter. My thoughts are it's possible you didn't have enough blood? I used to occasionally get wonky numbers and I'd just retest. You use the AlphaTrak correct? I think there's a control solution...have you tested with that? Might post on Health and ask about getting strange numbers on that meter. I never used it, so I can't give much advice on it.

Once you get your SS up, we'll take a look and see if we can help you figure out a good dose. We're here to help you and Harry!
Click to expand...

I am using the AlphaTrak. I haven't tried the control solution. But I think I'll look into how to do that and give it a try tonight for a piece of mind. Thanks!
 
Lisa & Harry said:
I am using the AlphaTrak. I haven't tried the control solution. But I think I'll look into how to do that and give it a try tonight for a piece of mind. Thanks!
Click to expand...


Just to be clear...are you using the Alpha Trak OR the Alpha Trak2? The Alpha Trak is the original meter and the Alpha Trak2 is the newer meter. Just asking since there is a difference in coding if it is the original version meter.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Welcome! Yes, we can see it now. He is high. I' m glad Carol is advising you on the AT; she has lots of experience with it.


I'm with you - the one blue is most likely a bad reading. Most people here use ReliOn meters because they are inexpensive as are the strips. The AT matches your vet which can be a good thing. Do you know any diabetics? If so, borrow their meter, test Harry and then yourself. (The At is made for pets so testing you with it could not be accurate). Or get a ReliOn and a few strips (probably under $25) and test both of you. (It is always good to have a back up)

Once we know the readings are accurate, we can look closer at the dose. Are there any infections? Is he on any meds? It looks like the food is low carb; how long has he been on it?

We put together a protocol for ProZinc. It's in my signature in blue. Generally our first target are regulated numbers. Mid/lower 200s at preshot and low 100s or double digits for nadir. But not below 68 on your pet meter or 50 on the human meter- that is approaching hypo territory.

You can put Neosporin with pain relief on his ear to help with the poking.
Click to expand...

I do have a ReliOn meter as well. I bought that first, but the vet told me not to use it so I bought the AlphaTrak. But I like the idea of seeing how it compares and being able to use it as a back up if needed. Maybe eventually switch to it if possible once I get this all figured out and get Harry regulated. It would sure be a lot cheaper.

Right now Harry isn't on any meds, no infections that I know of. He's been eating Evo Dry and a little Evo canned for over two years. Evo discontinued the one flavor of their canned food my cats liked, so I bought up a bunch and still have a supply for awhile. However, knowing my supply would run out, I started trying other kinds after he was diagnosed back in March. Once my cats tried the one can of Fancy Feast, I can't get them to eat the Evo canned they used to love. Now I still have lots of that which I'm thinking will end up going to the local shelter.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Just to be clear...are you using the Alpha Trak OR the Alpha Trak2? The Alpha Trak is the original meter and the Alpha Trak2 is the newer meter. Just asking since there is a difference in coding if it is the original version meter.
Click to expand...

I have the AlphaTrak2 with the AlphaTrak2 strips.
 
The vet just called me. I sent him my spreadsheet this morning too to see what his opinion was. He said he'd like me to up Harry's dose from 1 unit twice a day to 2 units twice a day starting tonight. Then do another glucose curve in about 10 days because it takes his body time to adjust to the new dose. Is that a pretty big jump in dosage? Or since his numbers are pretty high does that sound good? Even though he says not to test his glucose for another 10 days, I think I'd feel better checking well before that. Just not sure what makes sense as far as how often to check his glucose.
 
Lisa & Harry said:
I have the AlphaTrak2 with the AlphaTrak2 strips.
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OK Thank you. Then you just use the coding on the AT2 strip bottle.

Lisa & Harry said:
The vet just called me. I sent him my spreadsheet this morning too to see what his opinion was. He said he'd like me to up Harry's dose from 1 unit twice a day to 2 units twice a day starting tonight. Then do another glucose curve in about 10 days because it takes his body time to adjust to the new dose. Is that a pretty big jump in dosage? Or since his numbers are pretty high does that sound good? Even though he says not to test his glucose for another 10 days, I think I'd feel better checking well before that. Just not sure what makes sense as far as how often to check his glucose.
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That seems like a rather big increase, but since I do not use PZI I am not comfortable giving dosing advice.

@Sue and Oliver (GA) would be best to ask for her opinion of the increase.
 
We usually suggest increasing by 0.5 if they are high and 0.25 if they are lower. A dose double the previous dose is a big jump

Your instinct is right. We advocate always getting a test pre shot and a nadir (5-7 hours after the shot) whenever possible
 
If I decide to only go up by 0.5, would you suggest doing that for about 10 days to see how he reacts? or a shorter amount of time?
 
Lisa, if you keep your spreadsheet updated, and post frequently (daily if you want) we can take it day by day to see what to do
When Murphy was first diagnosed, my vet also suggested a full unit increase -I think most do but it's probably too much -much better to go in increments
 
10 days is a long time. I'd be more inclined to give 3-6 12 hour cycles and then go up. With those higher numbers, you don't want to wait too long. That isn't meant to sound scary...just that you want to bring the numbers down sooner so that he feels better. I'm with Carol...I think if you post daily or even after about 3 cycles, we can take a look and help you figure out whether it's time to move up or not. We're happy to do it. I used to post my numbers every day and get advice until I finally started to feel good about making decisions...and even then I asked for input to see if others agreed. :)
 
that sounds great to me. I feel like it's too long to wait and see when his numbers are so high. When at the vet he didn't have any ketones in his urine yet. I figure the longer his numbers are up, the more at risk he is. Thanks for all your advice. I'll up the dose .5 tonight and work from there as you suggested. Thanks so much you guys!
 
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Hi, I've had Harry at 1.5 units now for 5 cycles. Just gave him his shot a little bit ago. I was really surprised to see his preshot BG at 596. I took a second reading and got about the same but a little higher. He seems to have the most energy shortly after his shot and for a couple hours after, then seems to slowly decrease after that.

I was thinking based on his numbers over the past few days I'd be ok going up to the 2 units daily as the vet had suggested. Looking for second opinions please. Thanks!
 
Hi Lisa - I don't officially give dosing advice so we'll see what Sue and Rachel say when they chime in, but that certainly seems like a reasonable thing to do to me. It does take a while for their bodies to get used to the exogenous insulin, so it just takes some time. Everything else going ok? Are you giving the insulin every 12 hours? Is he drinking and peeing a lot still? Don't forget to check ketones when you can
 
Yes, insulin every 12 hours. He's still drinking and peeing a lot. I've been meaning to look into testing for ketones. Guess that's next on my list. It hasn't been done since the end of March.
 
I have had so many thoughts going through my head the last few days. Why are his numbers not moving? Is my bottle of insulin bad? Do I not inject it properly? Is he resistant to this insulin? Am I testing his BG properly? Am I just not patient enough? Also noticed that his lowest numbers occurred in the evenings and when he was at 1.5 units. Anyway, I tend to overthink everything, so why would this be any different. :)

I probably spend some time each day out on this forum learning more. There's so much out here. It's just such a great resource. Last night I was re-reading something on dosing and BG testing. It said that I should give each new dosing amount at least a week. So I figure one more day at this new dose at least? The other thing I noticed and hadn't before, but should have; was that Harry shouldn't have any food the two hours prior to the BG test. I feed my cats twice a day. But they never finish it all at feeding time. So whatever is left I leave out. Figured this was ok since PZI is a long acting insulin. However, that means Harry could be eating something within that two hour range. So, starting today I'll have my son take any leftovers away when he got home from school so I'd know Harry hadn't eaten when it was time to feed him and give him his shot. In addition to both cats REALLY begging for food when I got home, Harry had so much energy. He even wanted to play, and that hardly ever happens lately. So I thought maybe his BG is down and he's feeling better. Nope. Just tested. 443. So, the only thing I know is that he has a lot more energy when he's hungry as opposed to after he's eaten.

Well, I've rambled enough. Do you think after another day or so I should go up .5 units?
 
Hi Lisa,

Where'd you get the info about waiting a week? Sometimes we do wait longer, but with the high numbers you're getting, I wouldn't wait that long. Check the ProZinc protocol. It suggests changing every 3 cycles if in higher numbers. Now, you don't have to do that, but I would not go an entire week with those numbers. You don't want him to sit high for too long. I think I'd go ahead and increase if you can monitor.

Are you checking for ketones? Sorry if I already asked this!
 
Rachel said:
Hi Lisa,

Where'd you get the info about waiting a week? Sometimes we do wait longer, but with the high numbers you're getting, I wouldn't wait that long. Check the ProZinc protocol. It suggests changing every 3 cycles if in higher numbers. Now, you don't have to do that, but I would not go an entire week with those numbers. You don't want him to sit high for too long. I think I'd go ahead and increase if you can monitor.

Are you checking for ketones? Sorry if I already asked this!
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I'm checking for ketones. It's been a couple of days though. Will try to again tonight. Timing can be tricky with him, especially since I'm not home during the day.

Here's where I saw the info about waiting a week before changing the dose. http://www.felinediabetes.com/start-low-go-slow.htm

Five Steps to Regulation:
Step 1. Start at a low dose of PZI, Lantus, or Levemir insulin, as recommended by your vet. (Note: Humulin and Novolin Lente and Ultralente, two insulins with good track records in cats, have been discontinued by the manufacturers.) A conservative starting dose is 1.0-2.0 units, twice per day. If your cat's blood glucose was less than 400 mg/dl (22.1 mmol/L) at diagnosis, or if your cat is on a low-carbohydrate diet, the starting dose should be only 0.5-1.0 units twice per day. Fast-acting insulins such as Humulin Regular, Humulin 70/30, and Humulin N (NPH) are not suitable starting insulins for cats.
Step 2.
Don't increase the dose until your cat has been on it for at least a week. If you have reason to be concerned about hypoglycemia, or if your cat won't eat, do decrease the dose and contact your vet. Do test your cat's urine frequently during the regulation process using Ketostix or Ketodiastix, and contact your vet immediately if the cat tests positive for ketones. Do be consistent in the timing and type of food. Do give the shots at about the same time every day.
Step 3.
After 1-2 weeks at a given dose, you or your vet should perform a serial blood glucose curve (blood glucose tests every 2 hours, starting at shot time and continuing until the next shot). Follow the cat's normal feeding schedule during the curve. The curve should be evaluated by someone experienced at interpreting feline blood glucose curves, in order to check for signs of rebound and other possible problems. If no rebound is present, follow these guidelines for dose adjustment (smaller adjustments may be appropriate for cats on PZI or Lantus):
 
I'll test him again tonight at +5 or +6 depending on how late I can stay up and see what his BG is. Then I'll plan on increasing the dose in the morning. I'll send his chart to the vet again to keep him in the loop and tell him my plan. Not sure how that will go over, but we'll see.

Maybe a silly question, but when you say to "monitor" the cat after the increase; does that mean do the normal pre-shot tests and keep and eye on him. Or should there be more testing going on that day? I can't do a midpoint test because I'll be at work, but between my husband and daughter, they can keep an eye on him till I get home. Or, would it be better to wait till I can be home all day which wouldn't be till Friday?
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
Yea, I'd increase to 2.5. Is there any way you can stop the Evo dry? Sometimes it raises the levels in some cats.
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I would like to get him off the dry, but since my cats are used to being able to finish off the food throughout the day, it's something I guess I'll have to work at. The wet stuff doesn't fair well when left out. When I try to get them to eat a little more, they only seem to want about half a can each and then they're done.

My vet had told me too when he was trying to get me to buy the Hills M/D that the hard food is better for their teeth. Any idea if there's much truth to that? Or do I need to start trying to brush their teeth?
 
Is good you're testing for ketones while #s remain this high. This is kind of a tough one to answer re: dose increase tomorrow morning, as we still don't have a whole lot of data yet and he really should have more testing done around mid-cycle whenever you do an increase, just to be on the safe side. Can either your husband or daughter do any BG tests for you during the day???
 
Robin&BB said:
Is good you're testing for ketones while #s remain this high. This is kind of a tough one to answer re: dose increase tomorrow morning, as we still don't have a whole lot of data yet and he really should have more testing done around mid-cycle whenever you do an increase, just to be on the safe side. Can either your husband or daughter do any BG tests for you during the day???
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My daughter has yet to test him, but thinks she could. She's watched. Not sure if she'd be able do it or not and she'd only be able to get maybe a +5 one in before she has to go to work. My husband won't do it. I can for sure get a mid cycle one in (or more) after his evening shot. Or I could wait to increase till tomorrow night. But then we'd be asleep for the second half of that cycle. What do you think?
 
Lisa & Harry said:
My vet had told me too when he was trying to get me to buy the Hills M/D that the hard food is better for their teeth.
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That's baloney. Feeding dry kibble is one of the biggest contributors to cats developing diabetes in the first place - that and overfeeding!
Lisa & Harry said:
The wet stuff doesn't fair well when left out.
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Lots of people here use timed feeders for their diabetic cats. And you can freeze portions and pop them into the timed feeder - that way the portions don't spoil. However, that said ...You do have a multi-cat household. When treating a diabetic kitty in the mix, you may have to think about making some changes in order to get that kitty well-regulated on insulin, because the food can either work with the insulin or against it. It helps to think of your diabetic kitty's food almost as though it's "medicine," too. Amount of daily rations (based on his optimum/ target weight) is important, as is low-carb diet.

While your other cats may be accustomed to free-feeding throughout the day, this is counterproductive for your diabetic kitty if he has access to their dishes. (Him getting into contraband when you're not looking is never helpful to blood glucose control.)

Some others here with multi-cat households have found it helpful to start feeding all kitties, diabetic and non-diabetic alike, at the same times of day; if you give them a certain amount of time to eat at mealtimes (and you happen to have a few pokey eaters), after a few rounds of "the dishes are being pulled up, kitties; your mealtime is over," you might be surprised at how quickly they learn to eat at scheduled mealtimes.;) (Believe me, no kitty will really allow himself/herself to starve to death, even if one is somewhat balky about the change a feeding plan in the household.) NOTE: Obviously, you do need to make sure your diabetic kitty eats before you shoot the insulin ...

Hope some of these suggestions are helpful.:)
 
ok, just to throw a wrench in all of this... just did a +5 test. Got a 134. Figured that had to be wrong so I did it again. Got a 141. I think I'll stay up an extra hour tonight and do this again at +6 to see what I get.
 
Robin&BB said:
That's baloney. Feeding dry kibble is one of the biggest contributors to cats developing diabetes in the first place - that and overfeeding!
Lots of people here use timed feeders for their diabetic cats. And you can freeze portions and pop them into the timed feeder - that way the portions don't spoil. However, that said ...You do have a multi-cat household. When treating a diabetic kitty in the mix, you may have to think about making some changes in order to get that kitty well-regulated on insulin, because the food can either work with the insulin or against it. It helps to think of your diabetic kitty's food almost as though it's "medicine," too. Amount of daily rations (based on his optimum/ target weight) is important, as is low-carb diet.

While your other cats may be accustomed to free-feeding throughout the day, this is counterproductive for your diabetic kitty if he has access to their dishes. (Him getting into contraband when you're not looking is never helpful to blood glucose control.)

Some others here with multi-cat households have found it helpful to start feeding all kitties, diabetic and non-diabetic alike, at the same times of day; if you give them a certain amount of time to eat at mealtimes (and you happen to have a few pokey eaters), after a few rounds of "the dishes are being pulled up, kitties; your mealtime is over," you might be surprised at how quickly they learn to eat at scheduled mealtimes.;) (Believe me, no kitty will really allow himself/herself to starve to death, even if one is somewhat balky about the change a feeding plan in the household.) NOTE: Obviously, you do need to make sure your diabetic kitty eats before you shoot the insulin ...

Hope some of these suggestions are helpful.:)
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Very helpful! Thank you! Both cats are eating the same food, but hard to say if one gets more than their ration during the day. Harry is the one that likes to nibble throughout the day. There is always a little left at the end of the day. So neither is starving. I just worried that if Harry wasn't getting enough that could cause problems too. But I think I will have to start pulling the bowls after a bit so they get used to eating when they are supposed to. Might check into a timed feeder too. Thanks again!
 
You're welcome, Lisa! I can tell you this: Even though Harry's #s are running high right now, I am hesitant to tell you to increase the dose if you cannot monitor closely (better to do that over a weekend, or when you have a day off so that you can keep close tabs on him & test oftener so that you can start seeing what his cycle's patterns are ...) Another reason I'm hesitant is that I suspect that at least part of your problem with his #s not coming down is that he's getting into more food than he needs. (Keep in mind that out-of-control diabetes will make him behave like he's starving all the time.) If you can get good control over how much he eats and when, that's going to help a lot - and you may see him respond better to the current insulin dose, as well ...

I know it's hard to make these changes; I know how hard it was for me to resist when Bat-Bat would follow me around, yowling for food, when I had to dig in & hold my ground, keeping her to a stricter diet/feeding schedule. But guess what? It paid off in spades in the end!:D

How much does Harry weigh at present? (From his avatar, he appears to maybe be a Maine Coon. Is that which breed he is?)
 
Robin&BB said:
You're welcome, Lisa! I can tell you this: Even though Harry's #s are running high right now, I am hesitant to tell you to increase the dose if you cannot monitor closely (better to do that over a weekend, or when you have a day off so that you can keep close tabs on him & test oftener so that you can start seeing what his cycle's patterns are ...) Another reason I'm hesitant is that I suspect that at least part of your problem with his #s not coming down is that he's getting into more food than he needs. (Keep in mind that out-of-control diabetes will make him behave like he's starving all the time.) If you can get good control over how much he eats and when, that's going to help a lot - and you may see him respond better to the current insulin dose, as well ...

I know it's hard to make these changes; I know how hard it was for me to resist when Bat-Bat would follow me around, yowling for food, when I had to dig in & hold my ground, keeping her to a stricter diet/feeding schedule. But guess what? It paid off in spades in the end!:D

How much does Harry weigh at present? (From his avatar, he appears to maybe be a Maine Coon. Is that which breed he is?)
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At our last vet visit he was about 15 lbs. Down about 1.5 lbs since his last visit. Vet says his ideal weight is about 12 -13 lbs. My other cat should weigh about the same, but is probably closer to 16 or 17 now. So, I feed them the amount based on what the vet says their ideal weight should be. There's usually leftovers though, so I know they can go with less.

Just tested him again at +6 and got 224. So really his lowest numbers ever. The only thing different today, other than time being on the insulin, is that I pulled his food away from about 3 to 6 pm to be sure I could get a BG test without him eating within the 2 hrs prior. So, I agree, making a few food changes for the next few days could be a good thing. See where that goes before raising the dose. But if I need to I can do it when I can be at home then.

Harry's actually a mutt. I got him along with two of his brothers at a shelter. His mother was a long haired gray tabby-ish kind of cat. One of his brothers, Hemi, (who we lost a couple of years ago) was a short hair gray tabby-ish cat. Rollie, his other brother, is a short haired cat the same color as Harry. We actually went to the shelter to have the two kids each pick out one cat. We went home with Rollie and Hemi, leaving Harry and another brother for someone else to adopt. A week later the lady from the shelter called to check up on the cats, and told me how Harry was all alone now and because the other brother had been adopted too. So obviously I had to go get him too. How much could one more cat cost I thought. A lot. In addition to being diabetic, he had an episode where he decided to eat all the thread off of a spool he somehow found. Long story, but very expensive. He's the sweetest cat ever though and we love him dearly. Just want him to start feeling better now.
 
Aww ... I LOVE your story about how you ended up with Harry; you're a true tender-heart!:bighug:(And is obvious how much you adore your kitties.
So you have 3 now, is that right?)

I had to cut Bat-Bat, who had been abandoned by her feral mother, out of an elderly friend's kitchen floor heating vent up in Colo. That baby was only 4 weeks old! She has always been a chow-hound, and I was never told by any vet about the dangers of free-feeding dry kibble. After a bad UTI in 2009, they put her on a Rx (Science Diet, ugh) dry kibble for "urinary health." Ha, it was full of corn meal ... & that was when she started gaining weight - by the time she tore an ACL in one back leg in late 2010, she was 18lbs! The vet told me then that she could stand to lose about 5 lbs. So I started limiting her dry kibble, until an illness took me down for the last half of that year. By the time she was first dx'd with diabetes in 2013, I mistakenly believed her weight loss was due to my efforts (she was down to around 9 lbs) - but in reality, she was actually wasting from diabetes! (Boy, did I feel like the worst cat-mom EVER!!!)

Bat-Bat is a healthy, slender 10 to 10.5 lbs now - not bony, mind you; just slim. She maintains her weight on about 7-7.5 oz Fancy Feast turkey w/giblets daily.

One caveat about reducing daily rations: Do this gradually. Too-rapid weight loss - especially when a kitty is on insulin - can be dangerous. It's also helpful to weigh daily for a while - that's what I did. This will really help you track your kitty's progress. Slow and steady wins the race, so if you're planning on cutting rations back, do it in weekly increments of, say, no more than a 1/2 oz to 3/4 oz. per week (3/4 oz. would be 1/4 can of FF). Here's a link to a body condition chart; I found it really helpful in assessing Bat-Bat: http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Body condition score chart cats.pdf

What helped me keep Bat-Bat's weight in perspective: One additional pound on a 10-lb. cat is like an extra ten pounds on a 100-lb. person.;)
 
How nice to see some lower numbers! Re dose increases: we are big on Every Cat is Different. Some cats seem to take 5 cycles of 12 hours to "settle" into a dose. With some cats you see an immediate response and some are on a sliding scale with a different dose depending on each preshot. I think the info you saw is about the first week or so on insulin - good advice to start low and go slow and general enough to fit any insulin. With ProZinc (which is considered an in and out insulin) it seems to be less important to hold the dose for awhile. With the depot insulins, you have to wait a week because the insulin builds up a depot in the cat.

I wonder if he is one of those kitties who are lower at night - sometimes they just are and sometimes it can be because of less activity or more, or less or more food....

Glad you went back and got your sweet (literally) Harry so the family could reunite!

You hold the syringe. He is your cat. You have to feel safe raising the dose. We want him to be in safe numbers, but to get there safely. Any time we suggest raising, we'd like you to get a test around 2-3 hours after the shot to see if there is going to be an early drop - what we call an active cycle. And then in that 5-7 hour range to see how low the increase takes him.
 
Robin&BB said:
Aww ... I LOVE your story about how you ended up with Harry; you're a true tender-heart!:bighug:(And is obvious how much you adore your kitties.
So you have 3 now, is that right?)

I had to cut Bat-Bat, who had been abandoned by her feral mother, out of an elderly friend's kitchen floor heating vent up in Colo. That baby was only 4 weeks old! She has always been a chow-hound, and I was never told by any vet about the dangers of free-feeding dry kibble. After a bad UTI in 2009, they put her on a Rx (Science Diet, ugh) dry kibble for "urinary health." Ha, it was full of corn meal ... & that was when she started gaining weight - by the time she tore an ACL in one back leg in late 2010, she was 18lbs! The vet told me then that she could stand to lose about 5 lbs. So I started limiting her dry kibble, until an illness took me down for the last half of that year. By the time she was first dx'd with diabetes in 2013, I mistakenly believed her weight loss was due to my efforts (she was down to around 9 lbs) - but in reality, she was actually wasting from diabetes! (Boy, did I feel like the worst cat-mom EVER!!!)

Bat-Bat is a healthy, slender 10 to 10.5 lbs now - not bony, mind you; just slim. She maintains her weight on about 7-7.5 oz Fancy Feast turkey w/giblets daily.

One caveat about reducing daily rations: Do this gradually. Too-rapid weight loss - especially when a kitty is on insulin - can be dangerous. It's also helpful to weigh daily for a while - that's what I did. This will really help you track your kitty's progress. Slow and steady wins the race, so if you're planning on cutting rations back, do it in weekly increments of, say, no more than a 1/2 oz to 3/4 oz. per week (3/4 oz. would be 1/4 can of FF). Here's a link to a body condition chart; I found it really helpful in assessing Bat-Bat: http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/Body condition score chart cats.pdf

What helped me keep Bat-Bat's weight in perspective: One additional pound on a 10-lb. cat is like an extra ten pounds on a 100-lb. person.;)
Click to expand...

I actually only have two cats now. Sadly, we lost Hemi about two years ago. Thank you so much for all of the information! and what a story about Bat-Bat. Really cute profile picture too!

I'll carefully cut back. I think the biggest thing right now is not letting the leftover food stay out. I think Harry may have been eating way more than his share. Then I'll start working on getting rid of the Evo Dry food.
 
Sue and Oliver (GA) said:
How nice to see some lower numbers! Re dose increases: we are big on Every Cat is Different. Some cats seem to take 5 cycles of 12 hours to "settle" into a dose. With some cats you see an immediate response and some are on a sliding scale with a different dose depending on each preshot. I think the info you saw is about the first week or so on insulin - good advice to start low and go slow and general enough to fit any insulin. With ProZinc (which is considered an in and out insulin) it seems to be less important to hold the dose for awhile. With the depot insulins, you have to wait a week because the insulin builds up a depot in the cat.

I wonder if he is one of those kitties who are lower at night - sometimes they just are and sometimes it can be because of less activity or more, or less or more food....

Glad you went back and got your sweet (literally) Harry so the family could reunite!

You hold the syringe. He is your cat. You have to feel safe raising the dose. We want him to be in safe numbers, but to get there safely. Any time we suggest raising, we'd like you to get a test around 2-3 hours after the shot to see if there is going to be an early drop - what we call an active cycle. And then in that 5-7 hour range to see how low the increase takes him.
Click to expand...

It was really nice to see those low numbers. I was beginning to feel hopeless. His numbers tonight although lower than before, were not as nice as last night. I'm going to keep working on keeping Harry eating only his food for the next few days since I think he was eating a lot of Rollie's food too. (taking it away when they're done and not leave it out for nibbling.) I'm hoping this is contributing to the better numbers. Then maybe re-look at whether or not he dose should be adjusted this weekend when I can monitor him. Friday would be the perfect day, but not sure we'll have enough numbers to look at by then.

Thanks again for all the info! I really appreciate all the help!
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Also, in case you are not aware, Evo has a ton of calories - 600 per cup!!
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Wow, Carol - thanks for that info! (I had NO idea it was that much ... gah, I don't care which kibble they say is lower in carbs; kibble for kitties just sucks. Ha, and I used to feed Bat that "healthy" all-organic, salmon-based kibble. Healthy, my a**!:mad:)
 
Robin&BB said:
Wow, Carol - thanks for that info! (I had NO idea it was that much ... gah, I don't care which kibble they say is lower in carbs; kibble for kitties just sucks. Ha, and I used to feed Bat that "healthy" all-organic, salmon-based kibble. Healthy, my a**!:mad:)
Click to expand...
Hah!!! :DWell, one's man's trash is another man's treasure - since Murphy is such a terrible eater, I love the high calorie count - he only has to eat 1/8 cup twice a day to get his calories - and that's about all he manages to do - he would never survive on just wet or a lower calorie food just because he hardly eats
Young Again is also very high in calories
 
Robin&BB said:
How's Harry doing this morning, btw?
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Didn't get any chances to reply until now. Harry was soooo hungry this morning since I took the food away before I went to bed. They're really used to nibbling and not eating a big amount all at once. He woke me up early this morning chewing on my hair and wouldn't leave me alone; while Rollie meows and bats at my face. They know how to get me out of bed. :) Harry wouldn't even sit still to let me test his BG. I finally won the battle and got it. It was 440, so kind of normal lately for him. His PMPS was 294 which was pretty low for him. He was much more cooperative for that one. He greeted me at the door and led me out to the spot in the living room where I always test him. We got that done really quick and then went to get his food. I guess he's learning. Just tested him again at +3 and he's at 338. Wanted to see since the PMPS was low for him. I kind of thought it might be lower. I'll do another at +5 or +6 before I go to bed.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hah!!! :DWell, one's man's trash is another man's treasure - since Murphy is such a terrible eater, I love the high calorie count - he only has to eat 1/8 cup twice a day to get his calories - and that's about all he manages to do - he would never survive on just wet or a lower calorie food just because he hardly eats
Young Again is also very high in calories
Click to expand...

I guess I didn't realize the Evo dry had so many more calories than the Fancy Feast wet. I am trying to reduce the dry food slowly. They like it a lot though. Calories and carbs are yummy. They aren't getting more than 1/2 cup between the two of them each day. Maybe a bit less because I'm taking away what they don't eat. But I'm working on making it less and less.

I'm going to start looking into those timed feeders this weekend and see if I can figure out a good one. I need one that makes a noise when it's time to eat so they'll know to come and get it. Kind of like how they know the noise of taking the top off the cat food can.
 
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