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Rescuemamaprays

Rescuemamaprays

Member Since 2016
Choppers was very distant this morning and just stayed by his water bowl drinking all morning. Checked his blood and numbers have been HIGH today over 400. So I spent all day on the phone moving things around and trying to figure out how to get him his meds NOW. I was blessed to work around financial issues and to find a pharmacy willing to sell one pen as opposed to a pack. After my purchase I was informed that I need to purchase the pen needles/ syringes separately AND not only that but I need a separate RX for needles. Even the needles that come with the pens. I can't buy them anywhere in my county or near by counties without an RX. The vet is closed and Chopper really deserves to have his meds so he feels better. I don't want to let him suffer. This really sucks. Now I'm calling around to other vets HOPING someone will call in an Rx For at least pin needles so I don't have to wait until tomorrow.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Choppers was very distant this morning and just stayed by his water bowl drinking all morning. Checked his blood and numbers have been HIGH today over 400. So I spent all day on the phone moving things around and trying to figure out how to get him his meds NOW. I was blessed to work around financial issues and to find a pharmacy willing to sell one pen as opposed to a pack. After my purchase I was informed that I need to purchase the pen needles/ syringes separately AND not only that but I need a separate RX for needles. Even the needles that come with the pens. I can't buy them anywhere in my county or near by counties without an RX. The vet is closed and Chopper really deserves to have his meds so he feels better. I don't want to let him suffer. This really sucks. Now I'm calling around to other vets HOPING someone will call in an Rx For at least pin needles so I don't have to wait until tomorrow.
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You do NOT need the special needles that are commonly used with the pens. If you are using Lantus or Levemir you use the U100 3/10ml/cc regular syringes with the 1/2 unit markings.

ETA: Some places also require Rx for syringes.
 
Mary Ann is totally correct!! Do NOT waste the time or money getting the special needles for the pens

Just buy plain 3/10ml U100 insulin syringes with half unit markings (you can get them at WalMart) Their Relion Brand 3/10ml, 3o or 31 gauge, 8mm insulin syringes all come with half unit markings and are only $12.58 for a box of 100

Depending on where you live, you may need a script for syringes of any kind...but some places will also let you buy 10 without a script to get by with until you can get one. You can call any pharmacy and ask what the rules are in your area

You just pull the cap off the pen and insert a normal insulin syringe into the rubber stopper and draw the insulin out of the pen
syringe in pen pic.jpg
syringe in pen close up.jpg
 
Every pharmacy in the tri county area will require an RX for either. As required by law. It'll be a statewide law within the next few months.
 
I will be able to have Vet Stupid Face Call in the RX for the pen needles (he won't support using syringes) tommorow first thing. Im just frustrated beyond belief that the vet isn't aware of county laws requiring an Rx for needles.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
I will be able to have Vet Stupid Face Call in the RX for the pen needles (he won't support using syringes) tommorow first thing.
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Don't bother....the reason we don't use the special needles for the pens is because if you do, you can only give whole unit doses....that's how the pens are designed...You can only go from 1 unit to 2 units to 3 units, etc.....there's no way to do .5 unit or .25/.75 unit doses with the pen needles

With cats that require tiny changes in doses of .25 units, you can't do those with the pen needles. Maybe take the pen in and show your vet how you CAN use a regular syringe? Or maybe send him the pictures above?

I don't know if you can buy them online without a script or not but it might be worth a try. Of course that doesn't get them to you today :(

All these have half unit markings and are the correct syringes for U100 insulin and are available from ADW online:
UtiCare
Monoject
Carepoint
Sure Comfort
BD Ultra-Fine
 
Since I am in Canada I am not well versed on the different state requirements for Rx for syringes. But as Chris said some states will sell a pack of 10 without an Rx...not sure what the rules are in your state?
 
I have called three pharmacies including the one where I filled the RX for Insulin and their hands are tied. I even called 24 hour vets near me and they won't sell not even one to me without seeing Chopper first (after hours fee). He should be okay for tonight, right? I'm going to check him again in a few minutes and hope his numbers are down. Is there anything specific I should be looking for, aside from his sugar levels? His sugar is still lower than what it was when he was diagnosed.
 
pen needles are more expensive then the u100 syringes. the pharmacy quoted me like 43.00 for pen needles and i only asked because i was curious when i was buying the other one. did you try calling walmart pharmacy? This place is located in florida and they sell the u 100 syringes http://www.adwdiabetes.com/catalog/pet-insulin-syringes_179.htm
he should be ok until morning but its never a guarantee. did you tell the vet places you called that you have the prescription for insulin already you just need syringe prescription?
 
scoobydoox said:
pen needles are more expensive then the u100 syringes. the pharmacy quoted me like 43.00 for pen needles and i only asked because i was curious when i was buying the other one. did you try calling walmart pharmacy? This place is located in florida and they sell the u 100 syringes http://www.adwdiabetes.com/catalog/pet-insulin-syringes_179.htm
he should be ok until morning but its never a guarantee. did you tell the vet places you called that you have the prescription for insulin already you just need syringe prescription?
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Yes I told them exactly this, he's not their patient, not their problem. Walmart in this county cannot legally sell me not even one syringe. Even if I show medical documentation. Not without a specific RX for syringes. This law is not in every county in FL according the CVS pharmacy but it is in effect in all near by counties and will be statewide within a few months.

Major major drug issues around here... I've seen syringes on the PLAYGROUND of a near by park. I'm sure those people didn't have an RX. But I can't get one for my cat lol
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Yes I told them exactly this, he's not their patient, not their problem. Walmart in this county cannot legally sell me not even one syringe. Even if I show medical documentation. Not without a specific RX for syringes. This law is not in every county in FL according the CVS pharmacy but it is in effect in all near by counties and will be statewide within a few months.

Major major drug issues around here... I've seen syringes on the PLAYGROUND of a near by park. I'm sure those people didn't have an RX. But I can't get one for my cat lol
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I can feel your frustration. Your vet should give you a prescription for the U100 syringes, even if that is not how they are used to doing it with the pens. If you explain that the pens can only do dose changes in 1 unit increments and that may be too much of an increase at once, they should understand that you know what you are talking about. The pens are nothing more than mini vials. Hopefully tomorrow your vet will give you the Rx for the syringes. :bighug:
 
He better the pharmacist said an RX for at least the pen needles should've been automatic . In the meantime. I'm going to TRY to get this spreadsheet business handled. I'll need all the help I can get once Chopper starts insulin. This vet is obviously not all there.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Looks like it's perfectly legal for me to order them from diabetic supply as long as I can show my cat is diabetic. So that's good news.
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It makes no sense for your vet to give an Rx for the insulin but not even for the pen needles..like DUH!! If all you can get for the time being is the pen needles the pen you use will have to be left at room temperature in order for the measuring device in the pen to work properly. This means that the insulin pen will only last about 28 days (Lantus) or 40 days (Levemir) at room temperature before it could start to lose its effectiveness. The unopened pens would be kept in the fridge. When using regular syringes the opened pen can be kept in the fridge and will last much longer than at room temperature. I really hope your vet gives you the Rx for regular syringes.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
It makes no sense for your vet to give an Rx for the insulin but not even for the pen needles..like DUH!! If all you can get for the time being is the pen needles the pen you use will have to be left at room temperature in order for the measuring device in the pen to work properly. This means that the insulin pen will only last about 28 days (Lantus) or 40 days (Levemir) at room temperature before it could start to lose its effectiveness. The unopened pens would be kept in the fridge. When using regular syringes the opened pen can be kept in the fridge and will last much longer than at room temperature. I really hope your vet gives you the Rx for regular syringes.
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What???? Ohhh he better write it. I went through heck to get these meds and there's no way I'm throwing them in the garbage
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
What???? Ohhh he better write it. I went through heck to get these meds and there's no way I'm throwing them in the garbage
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It would make no sense at all to prescribe insulin and not give you the prescription for the needles or even better the syringes. Without the pen needles or syringes the insulin cannot be used. He probably didn't know that the needles needed a separate Rx.
 
Tuxedo Mom said:
Excellent suggestion

There is one post for free U100 syringes. They have no 1/2 unit markings but better than nothing:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/free-syringes.155561/
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Thanks for your suggestions. I searched FL laws and couldn't find anything illegal about recieving free syringes or possessing them for legal purposes. Such as a diabetic cat. I would still like to get the RX just in case. Chopper is feeling better tonight. Not sure what caused that spike earlier. I'll update after speaking with vet tomorrow. What a long day my goodness.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
I searched FL laws and couldn't find anything illegal about recieving free syringes or possessing them for legal purposes
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There's no law against possessing insulin syringes at all...unless you get pulled over or searched and they find something "illegal" inside the syringe or on you.

The reason for the strict laws just has to do with trying to keep all the syringes out of the hands of drug abusers (although I don't agree with it....seems like they've already got a big enough problem abusing or being addicted to drugs....they don't need hepatitis or HIV on top of it....but that's another discussion)
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Thanks for your suggestions. I searched FL laws and couldn't find anything illegal about recieving free syringes or possessing them for legal purposes. Such as a diabetic cat. I would still like to get the RX just in case. Chopper is feeling better tonight. Not sure what caused that spike earlier. I'll update after speaking with vet tomorrow. What a long day my goodness.
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I am in Florida and I never had to have a prescription for syringes. Where in Florida are you located? I am in Jacksonville.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Yes I told them exactly this, he's not their patient, not their problem. Walmart in this county cannot legally sell me not even one syringe. Even if I show medical documentation. Not without a specific RX for syringes. This law is not in every county in FL according the CVS pharmacy but it is in effect in all near by counties and will be statewide within a few months.

Major major drug issues around here... I've seen syringes on the PLAYGROUND of a near by park. I'm sure those people didn't have an RX. But I can't get one for my cat lol
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You will have to befriend a druggie. They know how to get them for free. My word most clinics give them out for free to prevent cross contamination of re-using them and sharing. Yet even with legitimate proof you can't get them. What has this world come to. They cater to druggies but not pets.
 
Woodsywife said:
You will have to befriend a druggie. They know how to get them for free. My word most clinics give them out for free to prevent cross contamination of re-using them and sharing. Yet even with legitimate proof you can't get them. What has this world come to. They cater to druggies but not pets.
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I agree completely.
 
@Rescuemamaprays, did you get your syringes ok? I still have bags of u100 syringes in my cupboard that we didn't get through when Bandit was on insulin that I've been only using for his monthly B12 injections. I wish I had known about your issues--I would have thrown a bag in with the ketostix!

What sort of reasons did your vet give you for using the syringes? Did you show him the diagram Chris posted up above? I just find it completely unreasonable that your vet would waste the time lecturing you about the situation rather than taking the time to research and understand that in cats, who need their insulin to be adjusted in .25u-.5u increments, the pen needles shouldn't be used because they can only be adjusted by 1u increments.

I appreciate Bandit's vet more and more everytime I read through threads on this board. When I asked for the script for Bandit's Lantus pens last year, he said that he was ok with writing the script for the pens, but immediately told me we weren't going to use the pen needles and he was giving me a script for the u100 syringes instead because cats needed much finer dosing than the pen needles allowed. Just like that, matter of fact, didn't even offer the option for the pen needles. And he was relieved when I said I knew that already, that I just wanted a script for the pens because it was more economical to buy them that way. It turns out that usually when people ask him for a script for the pens over the vial, it's not to save money, but rather they're looking for a way to dispense the insulin without having to use a syringe.
 
My goodness!! I have the syringes. Finally. Now I'm off to watch YouTube videos to show me how to inject properly as I've never seen this done. Any advice? Should I shoot him now or wait til evening?
 
This whole diabetes thing is really taking its toll on me. After getting home and opening the bag I see that the vet called in pen needles instead of syringes. After he agreed to call in syringes. What should I do? Definitely NEVER call this vet again. If I use them is half of this Lantus going to go to waste? Idk what to do...
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Any advice? Should I shoot him now or wait til evening?
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You need to decide on a schedule that will work for you. It's important that shots are as close to every 12 hours as possible, so being this late in the day, I'd suggest waiting until this evening.

Rescuemamaprays said:
What should I do if I accidentally inject insulin in to myself? I'm very clumsy. Lol
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We give such tiny doses to our cats....humans start out in the 20-30 unit per shot range and can go much higher....if you happen to do it, just have a candy bar around the house....but you probably won't need it

Rescuemamaprays said:
This is what they gave me.
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Nope, those are the pen needles...I'd call the pharmacy back and talk to the pharmacist....explain to him/her why you need regular insulin syringes and ask if you can get them now since you at least have the script for the pen needles....if he says you need another script, ask him/her to contact your vet and explain why you can't use the pen needles....maybe you get get through to the pharmacist why you need regular syringes and he can get it through to your idiot vet
 
I really appreciate all of the advice you all have given me but this is too much. I'm over $100 in the hole buying insulin and needles while all of my bills are due at the same time. I've been calling rescues and .orgs since his diagnosis trying to find the best way to help my kitty get better. They dont bother to return calls. I think this is too many barriers for me. Especially in my area where obviously everyone buying needles or syringes is looked upon as a drug dealer or user. I can't return the pen needles and I can't afford to buy syringes now even if the pharmacy agrees or the vet changes the RX. Chopper was diagnosed on 03/10 and STILL hasn't been given proper medication. He deserves better than this.

I really give props to those of you who have given so much of your time and funds to take care of your cats. I doubt I'm cut out for all of this.

I'm going to start chopper on his 2 units of insulin this evening using the pen needles and start looking for a suitable home for him so hopefully he can be placed before the insulin goes bad in 28 days.

I have to do what's best for my baby.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
I really appreciate all of the advice you all have given me but this is too much. I'm over $100 in the hole buying insulin and needles while all of my bills are due at the same time. I've been calling rescues and .orgs since his diagnosis trying to find the best way to help my kitty get better. They dont bother to return calls. I think this is too many barriers for me. Especially in my area where obviously everyone buying needles or syringes is looked upon as a drug dealer or user. I can't return the pen needles and I can't afford to buy syringes now even if the pharmacy agrees or the vet changes the RX. Chopper was diagnosed on 03/10 and STILL hasn't been given proper medication. He deserves better than this.

I really give props to those of you who have given so much of your time and funds to take care of your cats. I doubt I'm cut out for all of this.

I'm going to start chopper on his 2 units of insulin this evening using the pen needles and start looking for a suitable home for him so hopefully he can be placed before the insulin goes bad in 28 days.

I have to do what's best for my baby.
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Don't give up yet. Even though it does not seem like it at the moment, it does get easier.

Also, the insulin is good for longer than 28 days. You can usually use it for about 3 months or so. At 2 units, you should have enough insulin in each pen for about 2 1/2 months. That is why we recommend the pens over the vials. With a vial, the insulin will become ineffective long before you will use it all. The "28 days expiration" is for human use since it is FDA regulated.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
I really appreciate all of the advice you all have given me but this is too much. I'm over $100 in the hole buying insulin and needles while all of my bills are due at the same time. I've been calling rescues and .orgs since his diagnosis trying to find the best way to help my kitty get better. They dont bother to return calls. I think this is too many barriers for me. Especially in my area where obviously everyone buying needles or syringes is looked upon as a drug dealer or user. I can't return the pen needles and I can't afford to buy syringes now even if the pharmacy agrees or the vet changes the RX. Chopper was diagnosed on 03/10 and STILL hasn't been given proper medication. He deserves better than this.

I really give props to those of you who have given so much of your time and funds to take care of your cats. I doubt I'm cut out for all of this.

I'm going to start chopper on his 2 units of insulin this evening using the pen needles and start looking for a suitable home for him so hopefully he can be placed before the insulin goes bad in 28 days.

I have to do what's best for my baby.
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Why wouldn't the pharmacy take the needles back if they were unopened? I've had the pharmacy give me the wrong syringes before (without half unit markings) and they took them back and replaced them with the right ones. Did you open up any of them?

Syringes are inexpensive--I think they're less than $15 at Walmart for a month's supply. Don't give up--call your idiot vet back and tell him he called in the wrong script and you need a written script with refills that specifically says "3/10mL Syringe, 31G x 8mm (5/16") with Half-Unit Scale". That's all you need. Read the script carefully before you leave the office with it and make sure it is correct.

How much does Chopper weigh? Is he overweight or underweight? The starting dose for Lantus is .25u per kg of ideal weight. 2u is a lot of insulin, and usually only large framed cats like Maine Coons start that high.

When Bandit was diagnosed back in 2009, I was super overwhelmed and frustrated because I was really poor, I was working two jobs (a full time job with a two hour commute and a part time job on weekends and some weeknights to pay for his insulin), and going to grad school at the time. I sorted it out, and you will too. I would take a deep breath and start by getting the logistics of treatment sorted out--you're almost there! Using the pen needles isn't ideal, but you can at least start with them. If I were to mail you a week's worth of syringes, could you save up the $15 to get the month's supply at Walmart when you get the correct script from your vet? Or can you find a cheap place where you can order them online?
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Why wouldn't the pharmacy take the needles back if they were unopened? I've had the pharmacy give me the wrong syringes before (without half unit markings) and they took them back and replaced them with the right ones. Did you open up any of them?

Syringes are inexpensive--I think they're less than $15 at Walmart for a month's supply. Don't give up--call your idiot vet back and tell him he called in the wrong script and you need a written script with refills that specifically says "3/10mL Syringe, 31G x 8mm (5/16") with Half-Unit Scale". That's all you need. Read the script carefully before you leave the office with it and make sure it is correct.

How much does Chopper weigh? Is he overweight or underweight? The starting dose for Lantus is .25u per kg of ideal weight. 2u is a lot of insulin, and usually only large framed cats like Maine Coons start that high.

When Bandit was diagnosed back in 2009, I was super overwhelmed and frustrated because I was really poor, I was working two jobs (a full time job with a two hour commute and a part time job on weekends and some weeknights to pay for his insulin), and going to grad school at the time. I sorted it out, and you will too. I would take a deep breath and start by getting the logistics of treatment sorted out--you're almost there! Using the pen needles isn't ideal, but you can at least start with them. If I were to mail you a week's worth of syringes, could you save up the $15 to get the month's supply at Walmart when you get the correct script from your vet? Or can you find a cheap place where you can order them online?
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When I bought the meter and supplies at walmart they all came up as nonreturnable as each one was rung through. I think it is there policy?
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
This whole diabetes thing is really taking its toll on me. After getting home and opening the bag I see that the vet called in pen needles instead of syringes. After he agreed to call in syringes. What should I do? Definitely NEVER call this vet again. If I use them is half of this Lantus going to go to waste? Idk what to do...
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Don't blame the vet. They really don't know any better. I was given pen needles with my lantus pen from the vet. When I asked about using a different type of syringe he looked at me like i was from another planet.
 
Thanks guys. I went for a swim to clear my mind. The vet is an ass. He knew what he was doing. And it was intentional. The pharmacy charges $44 for pen needles. And when I called and got the price ahead of time (to be sure I wasn't embarrassed with too little cash) they told me 44 and I said its far too expensive!! So they agreed to split a box in half. Without telling me they are needles, not syringes. So I paid a little over 20 for needles and when I got home and opened them they were in long pill bottles, not a box. This is what the vet called in. I had a LONG conversation with vet. And he said "okay, I'll call in syringes." This was surely intentional. There's a few very cheap supply stores where I can buy syringes and I'm sure I won't have THIS many issues going forward. But just the cost of seeing a new vet will be too much. I'm overwhelmed and frustrated beyond belief that there's so many hurdles. Maybe I need to toughen up. Lol
 
scoobydoox said:
Don't blame the vet. They really don't know any better
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In this instance it is completely and utterly appropriate to blame the vet. Ref the following:

Rescuemamaprays said:
Off to the pharmacy to pick up syringes. After a thirty minute lecture from the vet about how he won't recommend it yada yada yada. Geez.
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[Emphasis mine]

After a lengthy debate the vet agreed to provide the syringes. He either reneged or didn't pay enough attention when issuing the actual Rx. Unprofessional and inexcusable behaviour, in my considered opinion.


Mogs
.
 
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Rescuemamaprays said:
I'm overwhelmed and frustrated beyond belief that there's so many hurdles. Maybe I need to toughen up.
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Not toughen up; just breathe. :bighug:

You're overwhelmed, anxious for your beloved boy and not getting proper veterinary support at the moment - a recipe for panic (doubly so when financial worries are in the mix - been there; it's not great :bighug:). The feeling will pass and things will get better - in spite of your vet. He is a plonker of the highest order.


Mogs
.
 
Julia & Bandit said:
Why wouldn't the pharmacy take the needles back if they were unopened? I've had the pharmacy give me the wrong syringes before (without half unit markings) and they took them back and replaced them with the right ones. Did you open up any of them?

Syringes are inexpensive--I think they're less than $15 at Walmart for a month's supply. Don't give up--call your idiot vet back and tell him he called in the wrong script and you need a written script with refills that specifically says "3/10mL Syringe, 31G x 8mm (5/16") with Half-Unit Scale". That's all you need. Read the script carefully before you leave the office with it and make sure it is correct.

How much does Chopper weigh? Is he overweight or underweight? The starting dose for Lantus is .25u per kg of ideal weight. 2u is a lot of insulin, and usually only large framed cats like Maine Coons start that high.

When Bandit was diagnosed back in 2009, I was super overwhelmed and frustrated because I was really poor, I was working two jobs (a full time job with a two hour commute and a part time job on weekends and some weeknights to pay for his insulin), and going to grad school at the time. I sorted it out, and you will too. I would take a deep breath and start by getting the logistics of treatment sorted out--you're almost there! Using the pen needles isn't ideal, but you can at least start with them. If I were to mail you a week's worth of syringes, could you save up the $15 to get the month's supply at Walmart when you get the correct script from your vet? Or can you find a cheap place where you can order them online?
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Chopper is 9 pounds/ underweight, he was previously much heavier and I can feel his spine/ ribs, etc. Should I start him at 2units or less? 2 is what the vet recommended.
 
Critter Mom said:
Not toughen up; just breathe. :bighug:

You're overwhelmed, anxious for your beloved boy and not getting proper veterinary support at the moment - a recipe for panic (doubly so when financial worries are in the mix - been there; it's not great :bighug:). The feeling will pass and things will get better - in spite of your vet. He is a plonker of the highest order.


Mogs
.
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Thanks mogs. I'm trying here. Just feel like I'm failing my little guy. These barriers wouldn't exist if I could afford proper vet care and had access to other vets who are further away. This one is walking distance and sort of cheap. You get what you pay for...
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Thanks mogs. I'm trying here. Just feel like I'm failing my little guy. These barriers wouldn't exist if I could afford proper vet care and had access to other vets who are further away. This one is walking distance and sort of cheap. You get what you pay for...
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I think all of us feel like we're failing our little ones at times: we just want them to be well and happy and when we can't make them better like yesterday! it feels like a failure. The objective truth is that you are moving mountains to get help for Chopper. He will be able to sense that from you and be reassured by it. You're almost there.

On a positive note, many people here get to the stage where they have only minimal interaction with their vets when it comes to their kitties' everyday diabetes management (usually for occasional reviews and any Rxs needed). And many do it on a tight budget. We'll do all we can to help you both. You are not alone with all this, OK? You and Chopper will get through these initial teething glitches and things will get a lot better. :bighug:


Mogs
.
 
PS: Having the funds is no guarantee of getting good veterinary support. Saoirse is insured up to the hilt and she has come a cropper on the veterinary treatment front in spite of having that advantage.

Last year Saoirse was referred out to what is regarded as one of the best veterinary hospitals in the country for diagnostic tests. The top-flight feline diabetes specialist who saw her wasn't worth a light; her approach to diabetes was as backward as her professional arrogance was huge. The specialist threw a major spanner in the works which resulted in Saoirse not getting treatment she needed (and shut the door to a second opinion) plus she prescribed meds for Saoirse at too high a dose for Saoirse to tolerate. Saoirse paid a hefty price for her that vet's shortcomings. A year on I am still furious about it. :mad: It's not costing that vet a thought; she hasn't had to live with seeing what her poor decisions did to my cat.


Mogs
.
 
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