Help! Bgs staying high and spiking

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DebG

DebG

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Hello my name is Debbie and my kitty Fritz who is almost 9.
Feb 11th a vet put him on Lantus 2 units after a week still high Bgs week 2 still the same the vet tried to do curve on 2/25/16 vets curve of amps 516 496 couldnt get two tests last they got with my help was 377.
She uped his dose to 4 units still high gbs.
I then took him to a vet he'd seen before she put him on Prozinc March 24th. He has asthma and the same day we started Prozinc I had to start him inPredisolone which I am tapering him off.
He is 26 pounds down from 28.
I feed himraw homemade food from Lisa Pierson recipe.
I am doing the Elizabeth Hidgkins sliding scale and it's not working for Fritz.
Today I am doing a curve his readings are amps 254 2 Hours later 246 two hours later 299 and then two hours later 376.
Shoukd I put him on twice a day dosing and if so how much?
I would live some advice and maybe if some one knows of a good experienced vet in Washington state. I travel a lot and it makes it hard to have one vet. The two I've tried appear to know less than myself and have huge variety g treatment ideas.
 
I would definitely do two doses daily. ProZinc lasts only 12 hours so once daily dosing means he is in lower numbers the first 12 hours and high the second 12. Maybe start with that first and do more testing to see how he looks.

Can we help you set up a spreadsheet? It is really hard to tell what is happening without seeing numbers and history. The instructions are here

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/.

If you need help, just ask

We do have several members in WA. You might post on Health asking for vet suggestions
 
Sue thank you! How many units do I give him?
I know to feed him with each injection, can I feed him again that day? Or only when I do injections?
So tonight I should start the twice a day.
What do I do if his Bgs continue to be high?
:)
 
So you've been giving doses more often that ever 12 hours - sometimes 3 and 4 units? If that is the case, I think he has probably been bouncing.

What would you think about giving 2 units every 12 hours, checking before every shot (before food) to be sure he is over 200. ( we suggest not shooting under 200 until you have some data and know where a dose might take him). Check 5-7 hours after the shot to see where that dose takes him. If 2 units doesn't look like enough, we can raise it slowly but let's get some numbers first?

I can set you up with a spreadsheet tonight when I get home. I'll send you a private message then
 
Deb,
you mention that your cat has asthma.
Have you ever used a steroid inhaler for him?
I used to have a cat with this condition and he was on steroid and bronchodilator inhalers, I had no problem using them for my cat. I had to buy a special cat aerochamber which was very expensive.
If you need more information regarding this I can certainly talk to you about this in more detail if you wish.
Sending lots of hugs to you, I know how you feel as my life evolves around my cat at the moment and my husband is left on his own (ha ha ha)!
Marlena
 
Yes he's had asthma for about 3 years, after much research I got the vets to prescribe Flovent for him. I do use the aerokat chambers. When he has flare ups I have to put him on liquid steriods for short periods till it clears the mucous.
My goodness it has been a long stressful three years and just when I thought all was going well, we were hit with this diabetes.
I have struggled for years with his weight
I finally got smart a few years back and started making his raw food. Still struggled with weight. He's 26 pounds down two pounds since starting the insulin. Not sure if the diabetes started the Weight loss or if it was the insulin.
Which ever I am happy that he is starting to loose weight, hopefully he will continue to loose.
Thanks for the info. You had no idea if he was being treated with the inhalers.
Hope everything is going well with your kitty.
 
Hi Deb and welcome to the Prozinc forum Many people feed their cats more than twice a day - in fact, I think most think it is better for the pancreas to have several small meals rather than just 2 meals.
I know how horribly stressful this can be. I was a wreck for several months after my cat was diagnosed with diabetes. But you are in very good hands here, and really, with all the support you will receive here, it will get better and right away, too. Because an answer to a question or a supportive ear, is just a quick email post away. We are all in the same boat. Ask lots of questions
what food are you feeding?
 
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I make raw food from air chilled organic antibiotic & hormone free chicken from Whole Foods following Lisa Pierson recipe. I also add a tad bit of Fancy Feast Classic chicken once a day just so he gets a tiny bit of carbs. He is 26 pounds and I'm not sure how much food he should be eating in a day. Iv'e been doing the sliding scale for his injections so he eats 2.5 ozs 3 to 4 times a day. I want him to loose weight he's down two pounds since I started him on insulin not sure that has anything to do with it or just the side effect of diabetes???
Yes I am a wreck... not as much now that I have found support and good advice and coaching. This is exactly what I need. I sure appreciate everyone that is reaching out.....
I did chat with Sue and she is helping me. I was just working on the spreadsheet. This is all overwhelming! I haven't slept or ate or did much of anything-else since Feb 11th.
Thank you for being there for support! :)
I love hearing all the success stories and happy cats, and cat owners. That is what is giving me hope!
 
DebG said:
I make raw food from air chilled organic antibiotic & hormone free chicken from Whole Foods following Lisa Pierson recipe. I also add a tad bit of Fancy Feast Classic chicken once a day just so he gets a tiny bit of carbs. He is 26 pounds and I'm not sure how much food he should be eating in a day. Iv'e been doing the sliding scale for his injections so he eats 2.5 ozs 3 to 4 times a day. I want him to loose weight he's down two pounds since I started him on insulin not sure that has anything to do with it or just the side effect of diabetes???
Yes I am a wreck... not as much now that I have found support and good advice and coaching. This is exactly what I need. I sure appreciate everyone that is reaching out.....
I did chat with Sue and she is helping me. I was just working on the spreadsheet. This is all overwhelming! I haven't slept or ate or did much of anything-else since Feb 11th.
Thank you for being there for support! :)
I love hearing all the success stories and happy cats, and cat owners. That is what is giving me hope!
Click to expand...



Welcome Debbie! Yes having a furbaby diagnosed with diabetes is an extremely stressful and overwhelming experience. I remember the first few months when I was afraid to sleep and terrified that I wouldn't do the right thing for my kitty. I changed vets after 2 months since my original vet had no idea about treating feline diabetes and gave me a lot of poor information. With the help of this forum and LOTS of reading, I am able to deal with all the ups and downs of FD. Although I personally don't use Prozinc, there are some very experienced members here that will help guide you along the right path. The support and knowledge on this site is the best. :bighug: :bighug:
 
Hi Deb- How many calories are you feeding? Obviously food is a common topic on this forum - most of the food questions are posed on the general health forum - the general health forum is where we ask questions that are not Prozinc specific - the Prozinc forum is small, but everyone on the FDMB is on the general health forum http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/food-thread-round-up.141369/#post-1458796 What do you think Fritz's ideal body weight is? There is a formula somewhere about how many calories the cat should eat a day - I don't know it off the top of my head. I can't read your spreadsheet -did you mark it so that everyone can see it?
 
Hi Carol- I just made the spreadsheet and will fill in todays the best I can without ever using a spreadsheet.
Could you please let me know if you can see it?
As far as calories I have no clue its raw food I make I weight out 2.5 ozs at a time and feed him three to four times. So that would be 10 ozs a day.
I'd like to see Fritz 18lbs or less
 
Hello Deb! Your link just takes us to Google docs. The entire address isn't linked. I tried to copy and paste...it didn't work. I'm not great with the techy stuff, so I may have done something wrong. Can you redo the link to see if we can get in?

Also, I read above about how you've been not eating or sleeping or doing anything but caring for your sweet kitty for awhile. TRUST me..we get it. But you need to take care of yourself too. You can't take care of a cat if you won't take care of yourself! We all know the feeling. But it's important to take time to do things you enjoy. I've found that when I sit on the couch with the TV on in the background, sometimes my kitties come sit with me and it's very relaxing. Getting out of the house for a few hours is even better...just getting some air or taking a walk! We're here to help you out. Do something nice for yourself too!
 
Deb, I tried your link to spreadsheet. It only opens the home page for Google. I think you have to open your ss and copy the url at the top to paste into your signature.
 
Agreed. Go back to your original and choose Share with anyone with the link. Then go to Publish to the web. Copy the URL that comes up and paste it into your signature.
 
Hi Deb- I think your priority should be getting the spreadsheet working so we can all see it
You should also probably figure out how many calories a day you should be feeding - I found an old thread from @Bobbie And Bubba that has some links - looks like somewhere around 20 calories per pound or more depending on activity level http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/calories-for-cats.140111/ I don't know how to calculate the calories in the raw food- anyone have any ideas?
 
I'm terrible with computers, I'll try again. Thank you for letting me know it didn't work.
 
I had to go to spreadsheets and cilck on it in the google docs (Spreadsheets)
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Hi Deb- I think your priority should be getting the spreadsheet working so we can all see it
You should also probably figure out how many calories a day you should be feeding - I found an old thread from @Bobbie And Bubba that has some links - looks like somewhere around 20 calories per pound or more depending on activity level http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/calories-for-cats.140111/ I don't know how to calculate the calories in the raw food- anyone have any ideas?
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Carol then if he should weight 18lbs that wolud be 360 calories I will call Felines pride to see how many calories are in the raw food diet of chicken its similar to the one I make.
I made the spreadsheet it's in google drive docs under spreadsheet I have no clue what I am doing but I see it, Rachel couldn't see it when you get a minute would you please check to see if you can see the spreadsheet?
:)
 
It is still not working. If you want, check your private conversation (upper RH top of the page under Inbox.) and I can set you up in a few minutes?
 
Ok. It is in your signature. Now you need to fill in the data on the one I sent by email. Remember that the one in your signature is a read only document; you can't add anything to it -it updates automatically.
 
The one in my e-mail says view only it won't let me do anything. I must be doing something wrong
 
I went right into my e-mail on my computer and when I open it it says view only ask owner for permission I must be doing something wrong. It will not let me put any data on the sheet.
Ive asked my son to come over and see if he can make it work. Sorry for all the trouble!
 
No, I'm sorry. It is usually very easy. I put your email in as a person who "can edit". Maybe try resigning onto Google. I resent it. Try the new link in the new email.
 
upload_2016-4-2_20-58-22.jpg
 
Sue my son came and tried also with no luck if you can see the last reply it shows I am in google signed into google tried to open it it has a blue box that states view only ask for permission from the owner.
Maybe tomorrow we could try and start over? I really need to get the spreadsheets online for you to view. Thanks Deb
 
The spreadsheet on my signature is identical to the one in my email states view only. Have a nice evening! Please lets try again tomorrow.
 
Let me tag @Marje and Gracie and see what she thinks. I will have a little while in the am to figure it out.

Marje, I used the link in the tech forum. Chose Share with anyone with the link and put in Deb's email and chose Can Edit. I'll add your name too if you give me your email.
 
Marje is the guru for spreadsheets, Deb. She should be able to figure this out. I gave her all your info and made her the owner of the spreadsheet for now.
 
DebG said:
Bless your heart....
I am open to any suggestions.
In fact I'm crying right now and am thrilled that you will help me.
I'd give you a big hug if I could.
I haven't slept or done much of anything since Feb 11th.
Deb:)
My husband is looking forward to having a wife back as I have spent minutes, hours and days devoted to helping my kitty!
Click to expand...


We kind went thru the same thing, the first 6 to 8 weeks are just pure hell for most of us. There are few lucky ones whose cats are dx'ed early enough that the food changes and insulin therapy will cause remission very soon, but most of us walk the tightrope for a couple of months. :arghh::nailbiting:
 
I can see your SS now! But it only has the date for 4/2 filled in...no numbers. Is that right?
 
DebG said:
Carol then if he should weight 18lbs that wolud be 360 calories I will call Felines pride to see how many calories are in the raw food diet of chicken its similar to the one I make.
Click to expand...
Hi Deb - I don't really know how many calories he should be getting - I would advise posting something on the general health forum (go to forums, then find the general (main) health forum - in the title use the ? and title it something like "26 pound cat on homemade diet - what is his daily caloric requirement" then in the post tell a little about him- what you think his ideal weight is - what you feed him and ask how to calculate his daily calories needs
 
DebG said:
He is 26 pounds and I'm not sure how much food he should be eating in a day. Iv'e been doing the sliding scale for his injections so he eats 2.5 ozs 3 to 4 times a day. I want him to loose weight he's down two pounds since I started him on insulin not sure that has anything to do with it or just the side effect of diabetes???
Click to expand...
Hi Deb ~ It is most likely the diabetes that is causing him to loss weight. My Bubba was 25 lbs before Diabetes and ketones got a hold of him. As far as the calories. A few questions. What do you think would be a good weight for your cat?
 
Deb, this is the formula I use as 20 times the weight is too much for most cats. The formula is this : 13.5 + 70 So you kittie should be getting 313 calories to maintain a weight of 18 pounds. 18 pounds times 13.5 = 243 plus 70 = 313. . I am using that formula now to maintain my cats weight. Before that when he had lost too much weight because of the diabetes, I fed him more than that to gain. I hope that helps you. Keep asking questions as that is how we all learned. You are doing a really good job and all ready you have learned so much about nutrition. Fritz is a lucky cat to have you! :)
 
Deb

I’m working on the SS. Can you tell me what date you want to start with entering BGs? It’s best to go back as far as you have them even if you only have a few for those dates as well as the dose you gave. Please let me know and I’ll get it all sorted out for you. Thank you!
 
Marje
I have back as of March 24th. I went to google drive and the spreadsheet there lets me imput but when I go to my signature there is nothing.
I must be doing something wrong.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Deb, this is the formula I use as 20 times the weight is too much for most cats. The formula is this : 13.5 + 70 So you kittie should be getting 313 calories to maintain a weight of 18 pounds. 18 pounds times 13.5 = 243 plus 70 = 313. . I am using that formula now to maintain my cats weight. Before that when he had lost too much weight because of the diabetes, I fed him more than that to gain. I hope that helps you. Keep asking questions as that is how we all learned. You are doing a really good job and all ready you have learned so much about nutrition. Fritz is a lucky cat to have you! :)
Click to expand...
Bobbie thank you for taking the time to calculate the calories. Now how would I figure how many ounces of the raw chicken would make up 313 calories? Thank you!
 
Rachel said:
I can see your SS now! But it only has the date for 4/2 filled in...no numbers. Is that right?
Click to expand...
No Marje is helping me with the spreadsheet. In my signature I don't see anything. When I go to google drive I can imput on the spreadsheet, some how I think they might be two different spreadsheets. I am horrible with computers...
Hopefully soon this will be working :)
 
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