very concerned about my newly diagnosed spike

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spike_kitty

Member Since 2016
Hi all, I posted 2 times recently and have more questions. thank you to those who responded, very helpful. My cat is almost 13 and was on urinary SO diet (royal cainin) and I am switching him to Purina DM with plans hopefully to just go to classic fancy feast, or purina pates. anyway, spike is walking even worse than he did a week ago when he was diagnosed. My vet is new and she has mixed reviews, but I don't want to switch vets in the middle of this chaos. I can take him tomorrow back to an expensive emergency hospital, where he was first blood tested and diagnosed with diabetes about a week and a half ago. SPike had some neuropathy in his legs, but it is now worse. Is this common? should I take him to the emergency vet? I haven't yet gotten an home glucose test kit, but I will. his first glucose # was 400 (when first diagnosed), 5 days later after 2 units, 2 times a day on lantus he was tested at my vet and it was 300. and he is due to get blood tested again on Tuesday. Please advice. I am worried about my sweet spike. I am sure he got the diabetes from the Urinary S/O food, but he has had urinary crystals and he was on the diet for so long. I am slowly switching his diet now but he's still getting some Urinary S/O. anyway, the main thing is the neuropathy and that he is getting worse after almost 2 weeks on insulin! any experiences with this? any thoughts about what could be happening? and should I get him to the vet tonight? tomorrow? I just fed him a little corn syrup and food b/c he was really wobbling and I thought maybe he was a little hypo glycemic, but I have no idea!???! he had his insulin at 8:15 pm and it is now 12 midnight. I am very overwhelmed by all this. His insulin, his diet changes and his walking is worse than it was a week ago. thank you, spike's mom
 
oh and spike was 26 lbs in January 2016 and then 24.4 lbs in this month, March 2016. he's part maine coon (not a pure breed) and a big cat, but he is overweight.

Also, I understand what I need to look out for with Hypoglycemic (low blood sugar) reaction, and to give karo syrup or food if he is getting wobbly, etc. but what about the opposite reaction, the ketoacidosis? is that a high blood sugar reaction? what are the symptoms of that?
as you can see, I have not gotten enough guidance from my vet, but as I stated above, I really don't want to change vets in the midst of all of this confusion. Thanks in advance for any input, advice, experiences.
 
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Neuropathy does not call for an ER visit. Continued high BGs will make the neuropathy worse as you are seeing.
Get a human BG meter and taking reading and adjusting the dose is the way to go. The stress of getting BG ddone at the vet can artificially raise BG
 
I agree with Larry. You really need to begin home testing ASAP! Taking kitty to vet for checks will always give a falsly elevated BG number due to the stress of a vet trip. Even fairly mild stress can elevate the BG. Not to mention the financial cost! You'll save a fortune doing it yourself at home, and believe me, if I can do it, ANYONE can do it! Lol. If your vet says "no" to home testing, then that should be your last visit to that vet.

Corn syrup will do nothing to help neuropathy, it'll only cause the glucose to shoot up? And truthfully, changing vets might simplify the situation if you find one that has more experience in treating FD.
 
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I only gave him the corn syrup b/c I thought he might be having a hypoglycemic issue last night. he did seem better after I gave him a little corn syrup and his old dry urinary SO food (just gave him a little), as I am still giving him some of that food as I transition him to wet fancy feast or to the purina dm) . anyway he did seem better after that and so that makes me think he did have too much insulin in his system. I will get a home BG test kit today. but I do still wonder why would he be getting worse if his glucose numbers (the last time he was checked at the vet) were going down? I am worried that I'm giving him too much insulin at this point. anyway, I will get a home BG test kit today. Thank you.
 
I only gave him the corn syrup b/c I thought he might be having a hypoglycemic issue last night. he did seem better after I gave him a little corn syrup and his old dry urinary SO food (just gave him a little), as I am still giving him some of that food as I transition him to wet fancy feast or to the purina dm) . anyway he did seem better after that and so that makes me think he did have too much insulin in his system. I will get a home BG test kit today. but I do still wonder why would he be getting worse if his glucose numbers (the last time he was checked at the vet) were going down? I am worried that I'm giving him too much insulin at this point. anyway, I will get a home BG test kit today. Thank you.

I am glad you will be home-testing. It is so important to be able to see what is happening rather than guessing, especially since you are switching Spike to an all wet low carb diet. The diet change can, with some kitties, cause a big drop in glucose numbers. Glucose numbers are never static and can change during the day (or night) even in a non-diabetic kitty, this is quite normal. However with a diabetic kitty they are not able to keep the numbers in a tight normal range, which is why they need insulin.

Once you start testing at home you will be able to see how well the insulin and the dose is working to bring down the numbers and how well it keep the numbers in a good range. Often when kitties start insulin there can be some larger "swings" in numbers as the body gets used to external insulin. If the numbers drop much lower than what the kitty has been used to, then the numbers can "bounce" up higher as the body produces counter-regulatory "glucose" (glucogen) to bring the numbers back up to what it "thinks" are normal numbers. It takes time for the body to adjust to insulin and start accepting the better lower numbers as normal. Some kitties can feel "off" when the numbers go from higher to lower and back again. Once you have enough data from home testing you will be able to see the ups and downs and with a spreadsheet experienced members can offer advice on whether the dose needs to be increased or decreased. It is very empowering to be able to tell how Spike is doing with glucose tests done regularly at home....as well as much less expensive than going to the vet for testing.

You are on the right track and it will get easier as you go along.
 
Changing vets is time consuming but this is a complicated disease and in the long run it is nice to have a vet who actually knows all the complications that can come with the disease and not just "what is his number?" which of course is much higher at the office.

We were dx in Oct 2015 and I love my primary vet but he is admittedly not a expert in FD

We have seen and/or consulted with 4 since then and I have yet another referral from a very wise person --so this will b vet #5 -
The last fd "specialist" told me to leave his ears alone.... the next day he dropped well below a safe number--she was wrong!

luckily this forum is more up to date with the disease than the vets.....not slamming vets they have to deal with all diseases not just fd-
my initial criteria is if the vet does not advocate home testing and proper diet we are done before we begin.
good luck!:bighug:
 
I only gave him the corn syrup b/c I thought he might be having a hypoglycemic issue last night. he did seem better after I gave him a little corn syrup and his old dry urinary SO food
In the absence of real-time BG data you did the right thing to err on the side of caution. If I were in your situation I would have done exactly the same thing.

I am glad you're getting test supplies today. When you're shopping be sure to pick up some urine test strips so that you can check for ketones, the presence of which would indicate Spike was at risk of DKA. Trace ketones mean that you need to call your vet (and post here) to get advice on what to do next. Anything more than trace ketones and you would need to take Spike to a vet immediately for emergency treatment. More information on DKA can be found in this forum sticky:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...oacidosis-dka-and-blood-ketone-meters.135952/


WRT Spike's problems with walking, if it is neuropathy then it can be treated by supplementing the diet with B12 methylcobalamin. Zobaline is a diabetic-friendly methyl B12 supplement (contains no sugar - available online). If potassium levels aren't as they should be that is another potential cause of muscle weakness but you need your vet to run a blood test to check the levels and advise on treatment if it's necessary. If you're getting blood work done ask your vet to check B12/folate levels, too.

Again, please keep feeding the same amount of dry food until such time as you have got a home testing baseline of what's happening to Spike's BG levels on his current dose of insulin. If it should prove that the dose is already too high then removing what dry food he's currently eating could be even more dangerous. Thankfully you won't be working in the dark for much longer. The vet who (eventually :rolleyes:) diagnosed Saoirse's diabetes refused to give me any information on home blood glucose monitoring and for the first couple of weeks of her treatment I had to dose her 'blind'; it was one of the most frightening experiences I've ever been through. I was angry as well as scared and I moved Saoirse to another vet practice - one with a better handle on feline diabetes and which supports home testing. I really empathize with how scary things must be for you at the moment. :bighug:


Mogs
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just tested his blood with a glucose meter (I just got the meter today at Walmart), it wasn't too hard, I didn't use the lancet thingy, i just poked his ear myself, but I think his ears will get beat up after a short time (yes? no?). Spike's glucose was 410 about 5 hours after 1 unit of Lantus this morning. I'll keep testing today, to see how he is/to see how it changes through the day.

The other thing that I am confused about is, my vet said to try to get him to 2 meals a day (to coincide with the Lantus shot) but he was a grazer and he gets really bloated feeding him 2 big meals 2 times a day. Is it bad to feed him between shots? the vet said I could leave dry food out for him in between, but can I actually feed him 3 or 4 smaller wet food meals and is it okay to feed him some wet food between shots. Gosh, I will try to find a better vet, I am so confused and didn't get enough guidance from my vet. Thank you all very much! so appreciated! best Mary (spike's mom)
 
just tested his blood with a glucose meter (I just got the meter today at Walmart), it wasn't too hard, I didn't use the lancet thingy, i just poked his ear myself, but I think his ears will get beat up after a short time (yes? no?). Spike's glucose was 410 about 5 hours after 1 unit of Lantus this morning. I'll keep testing today, to see how he is/to see how it changes through the day.

The other thing that I am confused about is, my vet said to try to get him to 2 meals a day (to coincide with the Lantus shot) but he was a grazer and he gets really bloated feeding him 2 big meals 2 times a day. Is it bad to feed him between shots? the vet said I could leave dry food out for him in between, but can I actually feed him 3 or 4 smaller wet food meals and is it okay to feed him some wet food between shots. Gosh, I will try to find a better vet, I am so confused and didn't get enough guidance from my vet. Thank you all very much! so appreciated! best Mary (spike's mom)

Spike_Kitty...this WILL be confusing for you because I am in the same boat. I've seen 4 or is it 5 vets now about Morrigan and I am still having problems. The vets will mostly all say one thing..."don't test so much". Most vets do not agree with the amount of testing that most members here do. Who is right and who is wrong? I'm not sure but, I do know that I wouldn't have caught some fairly lower numbers had I not tested at least pre-shots. (I'm doing a balancing act between what the vets say and what is protocol in here so, it's tough for sure!)

Morrigan is also a "grazer" and 5 vets (including an ER and Internal Med Vet) have said, "let her graze". The idea behind a vet's idea of giving 2 meals per day only are to ensure that the cat is hungry enough to eat pre-shot. Insulin only works properly if there's food in the system. It has to have something to work on...which is food. If a cat is NOT eating at all...no shot. So, that's the theory behind the 2 meals per day. It's to ensure that the cat is eating pre-shot.

I don't have all of the answers and am NOT as experienced as many members here but, I'd say (from what I've read in here), eating in between is ok to do. Morrigan will not eat 2 big meals a day. She doesn't eat enough unless it's spread out over the day. I measure out her food for the day and spread that out over the day. As long as she's eating that amount per day and has eaten something decent prior to giving her the insulin, I am told that's ok. You might try measuring out Spike's food allotment for the day and giving him several portions of it throughout the day, saving some for pre-shots. This way, you know that Spike is eating something pre-shots and is getting a full allotment of food per day.

As for his ears....well...yes....they will get a bit raw. What some people do is to put on some Polysporin (has Vit. E) and rub it in. Most use just Vaseline though. To start off, you might want to ensure that you have 2 tests (both pre-shots) and perhaps, one or so, mid-cycle +4, +6, or +8 (usually, lowest will occur between +4 and +6 but, every cat differs). Get some "spot checks" in other words. There's no need to test incessantly or do mini-curves every day as some people do...UNLESS...you see those numbers WAY down into "trouble territory" (i.e.: hypo). Then, you'll need to test more often to ensure that he's not going hypo.

By the way, every vet's instructions will differ somewhat from another. MOST vets do NOT advocate testing as often or shooting as low as what happens in here. This is a very specific protocol/method that is being followed in here. It's EXCELLENT but, it also can confuse you silly because vets are NOT following this protocol and finding one who does, is pretty hard to find world wide. Keep in mind that a vet isn't necessarily going to give the same advice that is happening here. That doesn't make them wrong...it just means that they're not following the same protocol that is being followed by this group.

And, any changes that you make food wise, should be done with caution. Like Critter Mom has said, until you know how Spike reacts to the insulin, you won't know what is causing what. Keep him on the same diet for now, get some numbers, then SLOWLY (for glucose levels as well as digestive upsets) introduce canned foods or whatever you can. For Morrigan, canned foods didn't work out. No matter what I did, she'd end up with colitis so, we had to compromise with the m/d kibble prescription formula and dose up to that. She went through 5 or 6 rounds of Flagyl/Metrodinazole before she was back to normal. I can't try it again now for fear of the upset again. So, don't feel badly if you can't get Spike onto the proper foods right away or if, at all. Just do what you CAN do reasonably. There are lots of cats in here who are not eating what is recommended by the protocol in here but, it can't be helped. Kitty has a mind of their own and different health and digestive issues as well. Work with what works for Spike. And, it's just my opinion for now but...if you can talk to your vet and get help...stay put for now. If you can't talk to your vet when you need to and have questions or if your vet isn't explaining anything to you....then, you might want to try to find another vet who will talk to you more and explain. You may have to ask more questions and be insistent upon getting answers. I had to do that with 5 or 6 of them. My vet may not have a lot of experience with FD but, he consults with an internal med vet for me to get questions he can't answer, answered. And, one vet in his practise, has a diabetic dog so, she's usually a good source too for him to consult. They WILL go seek out answers if you question. If not....then, yeah...time to move on. It's not too late to move/change if you're not getting good help with this. Just don't expect ANY vet to follow THIS particular protocol. Most do NOT. You're going to have to work between the 2 and decide what works for you and Spike.

Most of all, RELAX a bit. One step at a time! Rome wasn't built in a day! :)

HUGS and well wishes!!!!!!
 
Thank you. What glucose numbers are the range of hypoglycemia? so I can look out for that!
I'm so confused and I'm patching all this info together at this point. I can't seem to find all the info in one place and I'm also jumping all over the place.
 
I know, it's really confusing! In part because every cat is different and in part because you're going to get different opinions from people here. Hypo numbers would be 50 or lower with a human meter and 65 (pretty sure on that) on a pet meter. I use the AlphaTrak pet meter and I get nervous at 70, so there ya go. Lol
 
Thank you. What glucose numbers are the range of hypoglycemia? so I can look out for that!
I'm so confused and I'm patching all this info together at this point. I can't seem to find all the info in one place and I'm also jumping all over the place.

Don't worry about jumping all over the place. It's a lot to learn about! Even I am still confused and need help, a year later! I should know it by now but I am still learning as curve balls get thrown in lol. The post above from Mogmom gives the hypo numbers. It's what we all fear most but Spike seems far from that level right now. And now that you are home testing, you will know if that were to happen. There's no real worry about that right now. Just get the testing techniques and shooting first as you are doing. Don't worry about knowing everything right away. That's a recipe for a breakdown lol.
 
some more info for you (as if your brain is not about to explode :eek:)
Many FD cats do well as grazers.... small frequent meals. You will want to withhold food 2 hours prior to pre shot to be sure it is safe to shoot and not have inflated numbers due to food spikes. Devon is 16 and grazed his whole life so I was not about to take away food and change his whole lifestyle as if he wasn't going thru enough:( (I also have a 17 year old non diabetic with CKD who needs to eat often)
He has done very well grazing.... it will all fall into place it just takes time... (I will let ya know when I get there:rolleyes:)
 
I have not read all the posts here but I saw something about his ears being beaten up--many people use OTC salves (not creams) and it also helps if you have a thin layer on before testing to lessen the poke and the blood will sort of make a little bubble...
I think some people use something with lidocaine and or neosporin --- I use a essential oil salve and Dre has perfect little ears!
 
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