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Critter Mom said:
Have you tried contacting Diabetic Cats In Need (DCIN)? It might be worth enquiring whether they might be able to help with the cost of the insulin. Check this thread for details on how to contact them:

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/financial-help-links.131190/

If you haven't already done so I strongly advise you to pick up some ketone test strips (I think Walmart may do reasonably-priced ones) so that you can monitor urine for ketones. For general information (just to inform, not to scare! :) ) if you ever get a trace ketones result you need to contact the vet for advice on how to proceed. If ever you get a result more than trace ketones you need to seek immediate veterinary treatment in order to prevent the kitty from going into diabetic ketoacidosis, a life-threatening complication of diabetes. It's hard on the cat and very expensive to treat. Far better prevention than cure. :)


Mogs
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Walmart has the ketone strips for the relion prime next to the test strips
 
My goodness. That spreadsheet stuff is complicated. It just gave me a headache reading those instructions. I'm not tech savvy at all. But I will do my best.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
My goodness. That spreadsheet stuff is complicated. It just gave me a headache reading those instructions. I'm not tech savvy at all. But I will do my best.
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Before you get overwhelmed just start with a paper and pen writing down the glucose readings, date time and reading. I made mine into a chart on paper just something simple.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
I have filled out the form and I'm just waiting for this vet to call me back with info about the prescription! Once I have the RX I should be able to send the RX and apply for the assistance. I'm praying that chopper doesn't have to wait too long for his meds!
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Fingers crossed. I hope that all works out for you!
 
Here's an example I posted for another member to show how the recording of test results in the spreadsheet works:

Example of Insulin/BG Test Schedule and Which Column to Use in the Spreadsheet

Insulin given at 8am and 8pm.

AMPS - Morning preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30am then food given
Dose: 1 IU - given at 8am

11am = AM+3
2pm = AM+6
5pm = AM+9


PMPS - Evening cycle preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30pm then food given
Dose: 1 IU - given at 8pm

11pm = PM+3
2am = PM+6
5am = PM+9

I hope the above gives you a better idea of how the times are recorded. Using the + system instead of conventional hours helps everyone to better understand each others' spreadsheets because different cats are on different insulins (where effect relative to dose time is different) and because members of the board are likely to be in different time zones.


Mogs
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Critter Mom said:
Here's an example I posted for another member to show how the recording of test results in the spreadsheet works:

Example Insulin/BG Test Schedule and Which Column to Use in the Spreadsheet

Insulin given at 8am and 8pm.

AMPS - Morning preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30am then food given
Dose: 6 IU Caninsulin - given at 8am

11am = AM+3
2pm = AM+6
5pm = AM+9


PMPS - Evening cycle preshot blood test - taken at about 7:30pm then food given
Dose: 6 IU Caninsulin - given at 8pm

11pm = PM+3
2am = PM+6
5am = PM+9

I hope the above gives you a better idea of how the times are recorded. Using the + system instead of conventional hours helps everyone to better understand each others' spreadsheets because different cats are on different insulins (where effect relative to dose time is different) and because members of the board are likely to be in different time zones.


Mogs
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What does amps and pmps stand for? i am still confused not sure i can grasp the + system
 
Amps is a.m. (Morning ) Preshot glucose number and pmps is p.m. (Evening) Preshot glucose.

The + means how many hours after shot. Like +2 is 2 hours after the shot, +4 is 4 hours after the shot.
 
One thing I'm still unclear on is how much to feed him. He's underweight. I am finding conflicting information.

Also the vet never called me back about the RX. I called as a reminder before they closed and I was told I would receive a call back in a few mins. :-(
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
One thing I'm still unclear on is how much to feed him. He's underweight. I am finding conflicting information.

Also the vet never called me back about the RX. I called as a reminder before they closed and I was told I would receive a call back in a few mins. :-(
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Are they open tomorrow? I went through the same thing yesterday with the vet place I am dealing with and now I have to wait until monday for the vet to get back to me.
Can someone post the info in regards to feeding to gain weight with a diabetic cat? My cat is underweight to right now.
 
As shown above:

AMPS = Morning (AM) PreShot BG test

PMPS = Evening (PM) PreShot BG test

The '+' notation is used to indicate how long after a dose the BG was measured. For example, if you take a test 4 hours after a dose, you record the result in the +4 column. If you take a test 7 hours after a dose, you record the result in the +7 column.


Mogs
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Rescuemamaprays said:
One thing I'm still unclear on is how much to feed him. He's underweight. I am finding conflicting information.
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Since Chopper is not on insulin at the moment you don't have to fit feeding times and amounts to the way the insulin works. Since he's underweight it's OK to feed him more than you would if he were at ideal weight. At the moment his body can't use the nutrients he's consuming properly because there's not enough insulin to unlock the cells to let glucose in to fuel normal metabolism. It is very important that Chopper gets enough food because not eating enough can contribute to build-up of ketones and we don't want that.

If he were mine, I would feed him small, regular meals throughout the day and night rather than give him big feeds because the latter would be more likely to spike his blood glucose levels and put the pancreas under greater strain. I'd normally recommend using a timed feeder to dispense the feeds but given that funds are tight for you at the moment you might consider freezing portions of Chopper's low carb food. You could set out some frozen 'meatsicles' along with unfrozen food. The time needed to thaw the food will create a delay between when it is served and when Chopper is likely to eat it. Other members might have additional suggestions for you.

I meant to say last night that I was really very sorry to hear about how your vet failed your little kitten. I lost my Tara (at 6 years of age) to a very similar vet failure. I really feel for you and your family over losing your little one. :(

Keeping fingers and paws crossed for you that you'll be able to get some insulin soon. :bighug:


Mogs
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Chopper's RX is ready! Solostar pens (although I have been advised to not use syringes with them) and this vet is also willing to compare our meters. The only thing is the first curve "needs" to be done in office for $76. He wants to start him on 2units. Chopper is 9 pounds and he averages about 260 with home testing. Does this sound right?

I'm going to be getting some much needed help setting up spreadsheet soon. So hopefully it'll help understand what dose he needs.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Chopper's RX is ready! Solostar pens (although I have been advised to not use syringes with them) and this vet is also willing to compare our meters. The only thing is the first curve "needs" to be done in office for $76. He wants to start him on 2units. Chopper is 9 pounds and he averages about 260 with home testing. Does this sound right?

I'm going to be getting some much needed help setting up spreadsheet soon. So hopefully it'll help understand what dose he needs.
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My vet didnt even mention doing a curve in the office. Once he saw the meter he told me to test at home and call with results or email. I dunno this vet sounds like he is making money. anyone else here pay money for a curve i nthe office?
2 units i think is what they all start out with. my cat started out on 2 units twice a day and hes 11bs but his glucose was in the 400s the first vet visit when he was diagnosed
 
Chopper was in the 500s when he was diagnosed on march 10th this year. But...I changed his food :-) and it looks like it helped a lot! I haven't even seen a 300 reading.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Solostar pens (although I have been advised to not use syringes with them)
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Did the vet elaborate on why not?

(Our vets recommend using the pen cartridges with conventional insulin syringes because it's far more cost effective. They don't even carry the 10ml vials in stock.)


Mogs
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Rescuemamaprays said:
My conversation with the vet was funny! He realized that I know MUCH more than he thought (thanks to all of you) and I even referenced a veterinary website that mentions using the pens lol. So he agreed.
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I had the same experience with my vet. When I went back in for the second visit armed with all this information things changed very quickly.
 
scoobydoox said:
His numbers are still to high though. You want them in the 100 area.
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Just as a cat doesn't become diabetic overnight so, too, does it not typically become regulated overnight: the body needs to 'relearn' normal numbers and that's achieved through a gradual process. Slow 'n' steady - and safe. :)


Mogs
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Rescuemamaprays said:
Chopper's RX is ready! Solostar pens (although I have been advised to not use syringes with them) and this vet is also willing to compare our meters. The only thing is the first curve "needs" to be done in office for $76. He wants to start him on 2units. Chopper is 9 pounds and he averages about 260 with home testing. Does this sound right?

I'm going to be getting some much needed help setting up spreadsheet soon. So hopefully it'll help understand what dose he needs.
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The starting dose with Lantus should be .25u per kg, so his starting dose should be 1 unit, not 2. It doesn't seem like it, but 1u is a lot of insulin for a cat.

I highly recommend you use syringes (3/10 ml, 5/16" with half unit markings) with the pens, and not the pen needles. The dose needs to be adjusted in .25u-.5u increments, and you can only go up and down in whole units with the pen needles.
 
Also, if you're home testing you don't need to do the office curve. Home testing will be more accurate than an office curve because cats have higher blood glucose at the vet because of stress. I wouldn't waste the $76 if you're already struggling with money.

It sounds like your vet is kind of making things up as he goes along without really researching anything, so I don't think I'd trust his dosing advice anyway.
 
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He said that its not the way the pen was intended to be used so it makes him a little uneasy to recommend it. I did give him a lot of information as much as I could and he offered to do some reading. Monday I'm picking up the RX, Applying for the help and I should be ordering his insulin soon soon (fingers crossed). I'll also call around to other vets. Do they usually give info about their practices over the phone?
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
He said that its not the way the pen was intended to be used so it makes him a little uneasy to recommend it. I did give him a lot of information as much as I could and he offered to do some reading. Monday I'm picking up the RX, Applying for the help and I should be ordering his insulin soon soon (fingers crossed). I'll also call around to other vets. Do they usually give info about their practices over the phone?
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When you start calling around ask them if they have any vets on staff that specialize in feline diabetes.
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
Do they usually give info about their practices over the phone?
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What I did was call and say that I was looking for a vet to take care of my diabetic cat and asked them to have the vet call me when they had some time (usually after hours)

When they called, I asked questions like, what kind of insulin do you generally start with? Are you open to changing if the first insulin doesn't seem to work for my cat after a decent trial period? What kind of food do you recommend? How many diabetic cats have you seen and how did they do?

You can rule out a lot of them that way....and if they aren't willing to call you back and discuss it with you, you really don't want them anyway
 
Rescuemamaprays said:
He said that its not the way the pen was intended to be used so it makes him a little uneasy to recommend it.
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If you're ordering from Marks Marine in Canada, he can write the script for either the vial or the pens...You just need to call them and tell them you want the pens and they can change it for you. Since it's OTC in Canada, they can do that

Try explaining to your vet that the pens are just smaller containers for the insulin....instead of a big vial holding 10ml, each pen holds 3ml and when you pull the cap off, there's a rubber stopper just like a vial. You're not using the special needles that humans do, you're still going to use the same 3/10ml insulin syringes you'd use if you were using a vial.....you're just "sucking the insulin" out of a smaller container
 
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